View Full Version : Bill Passed: tracking device in medication
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-approves-first-pill-digital-tracking-device-153230738.html
In short, there is medication that has a tracking device that notifies your doctor or caregiver if you have taken your medication. The pill, called Abilify MyCite (aripiprazole tablets with sensor), is designed for patients with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and depression, according to the US Food and Drug Administration. Some people are coming to the collusion of "big brother overwatch" or pharmaceutical companies are subjecting us or forcing us to use there products. Either way, give a schizophrenic a pill with a tracking device- that should go over pretty well. What do you think? We are over here worried about our guns and shit like this happens. In your opinion: do you think it stop here with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and depression? Or do tracking devices get included in other medication down the road?
Moose-Knuckle
11-15-17, 03:53
What do I think?
I think Orwell, Bradbury, Huxley, Rand, et al. were right.
Does it track or does it simply state if the pill was used
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How are the patients with schizophrenia going to react to this?
Averageman
11-15-17, 06:40
How are the patients with schizophrenia going to react to this?
They are trying to get an opinion from those patients with multiple personalities, so far none of them can come to an agreement.
RobertTheTexan
11-15-17, 06:50
On the website of the company who makes the sensor technology (Proteus Digital Health) and read that the sensor can track whether the medication has been taken and also on activity levels. Basically they ingest the pill and the sensor (grain of rice sized) and the pill interacts with a patch that the patient wears, which interacts with an app on the patients smartphone. The doc or caregiver then views this information on a web portal.
They said there is also self-entered mood reporting but dees not indicate that part is automated.
Being a technology guy I’d say that usually there is more functionality to the sensor in the pill, they just haven’t turned it on, but that’s just my best guess. As is today the pill tracks whether you’ve taken your medication or not and what your activity levels are, apparently over time.
But it’s not too a far stretch to consider there is some geo-location type functionality. Also maybe there is also some functionality to automate mood reporting. But at this point none of that if existing has been approved by the FDA.
They could go all kinds of places with this tech, and I imagine in their R&D labs they have been looking at more advanced functions.
Imagine a “kill switch” that can the activated once a person commits a particular crime.
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It's only going to get worse until we all have sensors implanted in us at birth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yCZhrzwZQs
On the website of the company who makes the sensor technology (Proteus Digital Health) and read that the sensor can track whether the medication has been taken and also on activity levels. Basically they ingest the pill and the sensor (grain of rice sized) and the pill interacts with a patch that the patient wears, which interacts with an app on the patients smartphone. The doc or caregiver then views this information on a web portal.
They said there is also self-entered mood reporting but dees not indicate that part is automated.
Being a technology guy I’d say that usually there is more functionality to the sensor in the pill, they just haven’t turned it on, but that’s just my best guess. As is today the pill tracks whether you’ve taken your medication or not and what your activity levels are, apparently over time.
But it’s not too a far stretch to consider there is some geo-location type functionality. Also maybe there is also some functionality to automate mood reporting. But at this point none of that if existing has been approved by the FDA.
They could go all kinds of places with this tech, and I imagine in their R&D labs they have been looking at more advanced functions.
Imagine a “kill switch” that can the activated once a person commits a particular crime.
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If it linked to a smart phone then they basically can track you as long as the phone is functioning.
They are trying to get an opinion from those patients with multiple personalities, so far none of them can come to an agreement.
Schizophrenics do not have multiple personality disorder.
This is not new; at least the technology isn't new. For some populations is would be helpful.
If it linked to a smart phone then they basically can track you as long as the phone is functioning.
Bigtime. And no real expedient way to remove the battery. One could perhaps keep it in a small Faraday cage, like say a .30 cal ammo can :D
skywalkrNCSU
11-15-17, 08:25
Isn’t this a good thing? I have a cousin with severe mental health issues and he is very normal when he takes his medication but he regularly stops because he doesn’t like the side effects and he feels fine (thanks to the medication). Then he goes off his rocker and has been thrown in jail multiple times due to a lack of mental health facilities. This type of technology could help prevent things from getting to that level. In this day and age of mentally ill people shooting up places we should be glad that technology can help keep people from going nuts.
They are trying to get an opinion from those patients with multiple personalities, so far none of them can come to an agreement.
Now that is funny.
If it linked to a smart phone then they basically can track you as long as the phone is functioning.
And as long as the connection is allowed by the phone’s user, as long as they decide to actually wear the patch, and as long as they agree to take the version of Abilify with the sensor in it.
..
Is tinfoil traded as a commodity? Off to Google...
RobertTheTexan
11-15-17, 09:38
Isn’t this a good thing? I have a cousin with severe mental health issues and he is very normal when he takes his medication but he regularly stops because he doesn’t like the side effects and he feels fine (thanks to the medication). Then he goes off his rocker and has been thrown in jail multiple times due to a lack of mental health facilities. This type of technology could help prevent things from getting to that level. In this day and age of mentally ill people shooting up places we should be glad that technology can help keep people from going nuts.
I think they’ve had some mixed reviews on the sensor Sky. Sometimes it takes up to two hours for the sensor to detect the meds, sometimes it doesn’t at all. But I believe the optimal test cases are those patients with violent tendencies when they don’t take their meds.g
Part of me sees this as invasive, chip in the hand or head deal and part of me wants these folks with these mental issues who can be helped through medication to have access to tools or technology that can help them.
There is also the medication itself. The side effects and risks are fairly strong. (As would seem logical considering the issue at hand.)
There is a Japanese company that makes the medication and and the Proteus company does the small chip.
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SomeOtherGuy
11-15-17, 09:49
Isn’t this a good thing?
Like most technologies, it all depends how it is used. Nuclear energy - nervous system poisons* - firearms - psychoactive meds - digital tracking of human activities, all can be used for good or bad. (* since it may not be obvious, most insecticides are chemically similar to nerve agents, and the balance are mostly extremely toxic nicotine based agents.)
The benefits are obvious, but the likely abuses are equally obvious. The problem is not the technology itself, the problem is people.
I have a cousin with severe mental health issues and he is very normal when he takes his medication but he regularly stops because he doesn’t like the side effects and he feels fine (thanks to the medication). Then he goes off his rocker and has been thrown in jail multiple times due to a lack of mental health facilities. This type of technology could help prevent things from getting to that level. In this day and age of mentally ill people shooting up places we should be glad that technology can help keep people from going nuts.
Had a very elderly relative who needed some kind of medication (dementia related) or else she was nonfunctional. This would have been useful for her treatment.
But it takes no imagination to see a day, maybe 20 years from now, when constant medication is mandatory. Did you see the movie "Equilibrium"?
skywalkrNCSU
11-15-17, 10:09
Oh I totally get how this could be used for evil, I just don’t think that’s reason to dismiss it completely like a lot of the conspiracy theory lovers would right off the bat. If it works well it could be a godsend in so many instances.
So what happens when a patient doesn’t take their meds on time? Who is going to be held responsible for a patient going off meds and then say shooting up a school? Will the doctor whose overworked nursing staff forgot to check the web portal be sued into oblivion? Will the sensor monitoring company?
Let’s say, unlike the USAF, everyone does their job in a timely manner. Web portal goes beep beep. Now what? Call patient, call relatives, call cops what.
I can see some benefit to this, but I see an even bigger push for more take to and call me in the morning dismissals. IMO, we already have a huge issue with symptom chasing vs root cause treatment. This will actually encourage it even more.
It’s interesting tech, but I’d like to see the actual long term implementation strategy that goes along with it.
Doc Safari
11-15-17, 10:35
So now you have to take a pill to jam the tracking device.
Simple.
Carry on.
So what happens when a patient doesn’t take their meds on time? Who is going to be held responsible for a patient going off meds and then say shooting up a school? Will the doctor whose overworked nursing staff forgot to check the web portal be sued into oblivion? Will the sensor monitoring company?
Let’s say, unlike the USAF, everyone does their job in a timely manner. Web portal goes beep beep. Now what? Call patient, call relatives, call cops what.
I can see some benefit to this, but I see an even bigger push for more take to and call me in the morning dismissals. IMO, we already have a huge issue with symptom chasing vs root cause treatment. This will actually encourage it even more.
It’s interesting tech, but I’d like to see the actual long term implementation strategy that goes along with it.
Trained home health professionals would be my guess, unless the dosing was part of a court ordered treatment plan, then it should be P.O. types with specific medical training. Street cops are already overburdened with mental health calls because MHT in America is complete crap. :(
With all the crazy ass sons o' bitches out here I am just SO SURE they have the manpower and resources to enforce this. I bet they'll even work in shifts
RobertTheTexan
11-15-17, 13:13
Trained home health professionals would be my guess, unless the dosing was part of a court ordered treatment plan, then it should be P.O. types with specific medical training. Street cops are already overburdened with mental health calls because MHT in America is complete crap. :(
I think this is likely. I also could see some automation potentially involved.
Auto-text from the doc or caregiver, even an automated phone call. Like those lame recordings from the VA for appointment reminders.
“Hi, this is the VA Regional Medical Center calling to remind the patient, Robert to take your prescribed medication blah blah blah.”
Maybe not optimal but it could handle the potential volume.
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The movie Inception comes to mind.
Averageman
11-15-17, 13:49
With all the crazy ass sons o' bitches out here I am just SO SURE they have the manpower and resources to enforce this. I bet they'll even work in shifts
This is going to be just like Gun Control Laws in California.
Let's throw a bunch of freedom killing totally unenforceable laws out there with the idea that Laws stop crazy people from doing crazy stuff.
They are trying to get an opinion from those patients with multiple personalities, so far none of them can come to an agreement.
need a like button :)
What do I think?
I think Orwell, Bradbury, Huxley, Rand, et al. were right.
Tyrants (current, would-be, wannabe, and soon-to-be) are using their books as instruction manuals.
5.56 Bonded SP
11-15-17, 16:21
Wow. That is insane.
I have an old buddy who went schizophrenic. Truly bat shit nuts. I feel bad for him, he had to get electro shock therepy, and he has been so heavily medicated for the past decade that he is just a slow, dumb, slugish lethargic person. But the thing is, when he doesn't take his meds, he starts thinking he is god and that he can read peoples mind and shit. He knows he is better off with the meds. Regardless, and I don't big brother has a right to mandate him taking meds. If the guy wants to be a loon, that is his right, the government does not have a right to step in unless the individual is a real danger to society.
Overall I think it's pretty messed up. Yes it sucks that people are completely bat shit nuts, but it is even worse that our government can decide who is crazy and who is not, and that whoever they say is crazy has to take '' pills ''.
Think about it, what if some left wing anti gunner as assigned to determine if you were crazy or not, and they found out you were a right wing gun nut...
I don't trust psychologists at all. I have a family member who has a medical PHD. He does not practice mental health, but to get where he is now he had to work and or study in mental health for a while. The things he told me about how mental health is practiced are pretty horrifying. Lots of psudo science 1984 type shit.
The movie Inception comes to mind.
For me, all this crap going on reminds me of Minority report.
Wow. That is insane.
I have an old buddy who went schizophrenic. Truly bat shit nuts. I feel bad for him, he had to get electro shock therepy, and he has been so heavily medicated for the past decade that he is just a slow, dumb, slugish lethargic person. But the thing is, when he doesn't take his meds, he starts thinking he is god and that he can read peoples mind and shit. He knows he is better off with the meds. Regardless, and I don't big brother has a right to mandate him taking meds. If the guy wants to be a loon, that is his right, the government does not have a right to step in unless the individual is a real danger to society.
Overall I think it's pretty messed up. Yes it sucks that people are completely bat shit nuts, but it is even worse that our government can decide who is crazy and who is not, and that whoever they say is crazy has to take '' pills ''.
Think about it, what if some left wing anti gunner as assigned to determine if you were crazy or not, and they found out you were a right wing gun nut...
I don't trust psychologists at all. I have a family member who has a medical PHD. He does not practice mental health, but to get where he is now he had to work and or study in mental health for a while. The things he told me about how mental health is practiced are pretty horrifying. Lots of psudo science 1984 type shit.
The “government” can’t step in unless he is a danger to himself or others. And it’s not “the government” that is diagnosing him as crazy, it’s his doctors. And psychologists don’t prescribe medications...not licensed to do so. And...what’s a “medical PhD”?
I think this will be a big flop. Also, there was no bill passed to allow this, the FDA approved it. Just like they approve medications or testing equipment.
Getting a non-compliant schizophrenic to adhere to a plan consisting of taking a pill every day is very difficult.
Abilify MYCITE adds to this daily pill swallowing procedure the following: Own and maintain a smartphone, wear a MYCITE patch 24/7 on the body that sweats off, commonly causes rash(12.7%), is otherwise generally annoying, and use the app correctly.
It also is not reliable, pills can take hours to register as being swallowed, and can even be duds...leading the user to think they forgot to take a dose and then they take a second dose.
I didn't read anywhere about anything tracking blood concentration of abilify. Mainly the sensor in the pill tells the patch that it has hit stomach acid. The patch/smartphone can track other data and send it via the app to the doctor. Who knows what.
Then the billion dollar question, is insurance (medicaid) going to pay for this elaborate system. Will doctors embrace(read:get paid) for it, as it will lead to extra work for them and their staff such as tracking this data, registering with the portal, training staff on using the portal and the protocols, responding to missed doses, submitting prior authorization to insurance, educate the patient about the program ect ect.
Can the system be easily fooled by someone who wants to do that? Such as not take any doses, but the app says you are johnny compliant? I would guess the answer is yes.
After all of this, will it actually help compliance? Or will it simply steal time and money away from where it could be better used. I bet the latter.
http://www.proteus.com/press-releases/otsuka-and-proteus-announce-the-first-us-fda-approval-of-a-digital-medicine-system-abilify-mycite/
https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm584933.htm
https://www.otsuka-us.com/media/static/ABILIFY-MYCITE-MEDGUIDE.pdf
water 1 degree warmer
Ribbit, ribbit, everything is just peachy, guys, ribbit, ribbit....
BoringGuy45
11-16-17, 02:40
Something I could see a schizophrenic being paranoid about is actually real!
Moose-Knuckle
11-16-17, 03:05
Tyrants (current, would-be, wannabe, and soon-to-be) are using their books as instruction manuals.
True dat.
I'm glad I read them all as a child, helps with reading the tea leaves.
A schizophrenic off meds is a danger to society. There are already programs in place with social workers who monitor whether such people take their meds. This simply applies technology to track whether a dangerous subset of the population is getting appropriate treatment. Orwellian, yes. Necessary, maybe - maybe not. I still think it’s an interesting application of technology.
Moose-Knuckle
11-17-17, 05:09
A schizophrenic off meds is a danger to society. There are already programs in place with social workers who monitor whether such people take their meds. This simply applies technology to track whether a dangerous subset of the population is getting appropriate treatment. Orwellian, yes. Necessary, maybe - maybe not. I still think it’s an interesting application of technology.
Just wait till the good idea fairy at the BATFE wants to implement similar tech in your Title 2 firearms.
For public safety all those Title 2 items should be tracked, then it's the Title 1's, etc. Incremental encroachments and all that.
skywalkrNCSU
11-17-17, 08:25
Just wait till the good idea fairy at the BATFE wants to implement similar tech in your Title 2 firearms.
For public safety all those Title 2 items should be tracked, then it's the Title 1's, etc. Incremental encroachments and all that.
So if someone is a danger to society off their meds should we just send thoughts and prayers that they keep taking them? What’s the alternative? Lock them up in a mental hospital on the states dime? Seems like this would be a much more efficient solution that has absolutely nothing to do with tracking guns.
PatrioticDisorder
11-17-17, 10:25
A schizophrenic off meds is a danger to society. There are already programs in place with social workers who monitor whether such people take their meds. This simply applies technology to track whether a dangerous subset of the population is getting appropriate treatment. Orwellian, yes. Necessary, maybe - maybe not. I still think it’s an interesting application of technology.
Medication non-compliance is a known issue among patients with schizophrenia and to a lesser degree bipolar disorder, but this is why we have long acting injectible antipsychotics and targeted case managers (to help ensure they show up to shot clinic). Neither myself or very many of my peers like the pill tracker idea.
Medication non-compliance is a known issue among patients with schizophrenia and to a lesser degree bipolar disorder, but this is why we have long acting injectible antipsychotics and targeted case managers (to help ensure they show up to shot clinic). Neither myself or very many of my peers like the pill tracker idea.
You forget that I too am a physician.
Just wait till the good idea fairy at the BATFE wants to implement similar tech in your Title 2 firearms.
For public safety all those Title 2 items should be tracked, then it's the Title 1's, etc. Incremental encroachments and all that.
That’s a bit of a leap. And it is a potential issue regardless of whether we utilize a tracker to ensure schizophrenics take their meds.
That’s a bit of a leap. And it is a potential issue regardless of whether we utilize a tracker to ensure schizophrenics take their meds.
The guy that lives in my radio says I'm not schizophrenic, I have a heck of a time remembering to take 3 meds daily.
PatrioticDisorder
11-17-17, 12:44
You forget that I too am a physician.
Of course I didn't forget. I'm sorry for the confusion, when I was referring to peers I was referring to Psychiatrists. I just wanted to opine that having a tracker in a pill seems like a solution in search of a problem, as you did allude to in your post.... and to add to my previous post, I don't think it's helpful putting a tracker in medication prescribed for patients with persecutory delusions.
Moose-Knuckle
11-17-17, 18:06
So if someone is a danger to society off their meds should we just send thoughts and prayers that they keep taking them? What’s the alternative? Lock them up in a mental hospital on the states dime? Seems like this would be a much more efficient solution that has absolutely nothing to do with tracking guns.
Who said anything about thoughts and prayers?
If someone is a danger to society (what ever their excuse is) why are said dangerous individuals permitted to be in that society?
Never said this issue has to do with guns, I used an analogy where this tech can be used. If you don't like that please explain why I should care?
Moose-Knuckle
11-17-17, 18:11
That’s a bit of a leap. And it is a potential issue regardless of whether we utilize a tracker to ensure schizophrenics take their meds.
When any governmental entity or government funded entity has the capabilities to track human beings via an ingested vessel there is room for abuse.
The tech is here, it's been here, it's not going anywhere however none of that changes the proverbial writing on the wall.
skywalkrNCSU
11-17-17, 18:37
Who said anything about thoughts and prayers?
If someone is a danger to society (what ever their excuse is) why are said dangerous individuals permitted to be in that society?
Never said this issue has to do with guns, I used an analogy where this tech can be used. If you don't like that please explain why I should care?
They have the tech to track your guns, it’s not implemented because it would never happen. The uproar would be immense. A simple registration is a complete non starter so I’m not sure how you think this would be a realistic threat.
If this technology could help someone lead a perfectly normal life and the only other reasonable option would be involuntarily commit them it seems like a no brainer to me. Lower tax burden and people get to live more normal lives. If your only reason for opposing this is that they might track your guns then that is rather silly.
Moose-Knuckle
11-17-17, 18:47
They have the tech to track your guns, it’s not implemented because it would never happen. The uproar would be immense.
Nothing happens until it does. I'm not an optimist for a reason.
If this technology could help someone lead a perfectly normal life and the only other reasonable option would be involuntarily commit them it seems like a no brainer to me. Lower tax burden and people get to live more normal lives. If your only reason for opposing this is that they might track your guns then that is rather silly.
Tracking firearms can very well happen as you noted the tech is already here. Our .gov already monitors / tracks to a large degree every cell/email/txt. In the name of national security and the public safety what's next?
And of course this doesn't even begin to address the civil rights issues and the intrusion into a person's liberty and privacy. Why should someone with a medical condition not have the expectation of privacy? If's it's schizophrenics today who will it be tomorrow? Where does it end? Life is inherently dangerous, we don't need a government watch dog on everything.
When any governmental entity or government funded entity has the capabilities to track human beings via an ingested vessel there is room for abuse.
The tech is here, it's been here, it's not going anywhere however none of that changes the proverbial writing on the wall.
It’s not tracking human beings. The tracker will be passed through the gut and into the toilet bowl. It’s logging that the medication was taken - tracking medication compliance.
How are the patients with schizophrenia going to react to this?
the problem with paranoia doesn't mean that everyone isn't out to get you.
Moose-Knuckle
11-19-17, 03:52
It’s not tracking human beings. The tracker will be passed through the gut and into the toilet bowl. It’s logging that the medication was taken - tracking medication compliance.
As an MD you can answer this better than most, but how long does something like this stay in the system before being passed?
As an MD you can answer this better than most, but how long does something like this stay in the system before being passed?
Depends upon individual gut transit time. Likely no more than a day and it’s out.
Depends upon individual gut transit time. Likely no more than a day and it’s out.I heard they activate, migrate up, and end up in your cornea. As a little mechanical looking worm. Yeah, and they can read your optic nerve and report what you are seeing!! I saw this on some documentary on TV. Falling Skies, or something like that.
I have a cousin who when off his meds has been dangerous crazy. Taking orders from his alarm clock from the Mossad, booked a flight to Israel. Harassed a lady in boarding, got arrested at JFK and sent home. Did it again a week later, made it to Israel, reported in for duty at passport control. Detained, arrested, my Aunt had to go there and get him released.
Scary crazy, late threw boiling water on his mom at 3AM, few months later threw all his possessions including clothes away, ran off, was found out of gas, naked and raving way upstate.
Dozens of horrible situations.
Yet is normal as can be on his meds. And wants to be normal/fixed.
There is so much societal pressure to not take medicine (pick your poison), that his story is not unique.
So while legit concern about privacy impacts are good, I could see some cases where this tech could be helpful and justified.
Besides, anyone who carries a cellphone is way more tracked, monitored, and sold than this tech could ever do. Especially a smartphone.
At least Europeans tell you they are tracking you. WiFi and Bluetooth tracking in airports, etc. Even if not connected.
So the answer is voluntary use of this technology with absolutely no input whatsoever from government, correct?
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