View Full Version : palmetto phosphate 4150v barrels
bobbytucson
11-15-17, 21:25
so palmetto state armory always has great deals on their rifles and ar pistols, lately whole rifles and pistols just a few hundred cheaper than a single bcm or daniel barrel. id like to know if their barrels are decent quality and will last a good amount of classes or atleast good enough to outperform me as a crappy shooter lol, so i can afford to take more classes to get better . they are 4150v steel, but are not chrome lined and just phosphate finished. i tried to find threads with reviews or peoples experiences with them, how the gas ports gassing perform ect ect. any input would be greatly appreciated. i know they are not bcm or daniel barrels, but i really just want a middle of the road plinker for classes so i can learn to be a better sportsman. local gunshop said they are made by FN too, but i doubt it, unless someone can confirm.
Just an FYI...this thread will probably fall apart pretty quickly. Maybe ending in a lock. You may want to pose the same question a few other places to get a more objective perspective.
With that being said, some of their barrels are apparently made by FN. I think it's their premium line. I'd probably skip the PTAC line. The Freedom line has been tested by a number of the YouTube gun channels. It made it through AKOU's 5,000 round torture test. IIRC, they were surprised how well it did in the portion where they shoot it while sifting sand into the action. You can find the whole video series pretty easily.
I don't know specific gas port sizes. From an over-gassed vs under-gassed perspective, they'll fall into the former category. PSA says they err on the larger side to accommodate a wider range of ammo.
My personal experience buying from PSA has been mostly ammo and mags. Never any issues with shipping or service. I did purchase a BCG a while back. When I broke it down to look things over something seemed off about the extractor spring. It didn't want to seat. I called them to alert them of the potential issue. I was wanting them to replace the whole extractor, just to be safe, but would have settled for a new spring and insert. Instead, they insisted on replacing the whole BCG. I was fine with that, and had a new one in my hands within a week. That one looked fine when breaking it down and has been trouble free. Maybe only 500-1000 rounds on it, so not a high round count by any means. Overall, the two I handled were nicely finished. No machining or tooling marks and carrier key staking is good. I'd have no problem buying another.
Battlefield Las Vegas is using PSA uppers and BCGs in some of their rentals, with much higher round counts, and have no noteable complaints. If you're up for it, they have a 30 page thread on ARFCOM discussing their experiences with components they've used, round counts, performance, etc.
Are they the cream of the crop? No. Are they even remotely as bad as you'll probably be told in this thread? No. Regardless, whatever you end up with, shoot it. Shoot it some more. And then draw your own opinions/conclusions. Expect to replace some parts if you actually put a decent number of rounds downrange. But that's to be expected with ARs in general. If you have problems, learn to troubleshoot. And, after all those classes, you'll have learned how you want your ideal rifle configured. Which is a good excuse to by another :)
bobbytucson
11-15-17, 23:10
thanks guys, sorry about the mis-thread, thought technical thread was appropriate since i thought this was a technical type of question but good to know, and will do, think ill buy one, what do i have to lose i guess? if it starts to key hole early ill try my best to track the approximate number of rounds
If it's not chrome-lined, it's not an FN-made PSA barrel. Like another poster above me has said, this thread is probably going to devolve into a shit-show, but for what it's worth, the FN-made PSA barrels are good-to-great by most accounts. YMMV.
Edit:
To actually help guide you better, perhaps link the barrel you were interested in? Last I looked, you could get FN or Daniel Defense barrels off Midway for $189 new...
bobbytucson
11-16-17, 01:36
If it's not chrome-lined, it's not an FN-made PSA barrel. Like another poster above me has said, this thread is probably going to devolve into a shit-show, but for what it's worth, the FN-made PSA barrels are good-to-great by most accounts. YMMV.
Edit:
To actually help guide you better, perhaps link the barrel you were interested in? Last I looked, you could get FN or Daniel Defense barrels off Midway for $189 new...
http://palmettostatearmory.com/16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-barrel-m4-ext.html
thanks guys, sorry about the mis-thread, thought technical thread was appropriate since i thought this was a technical type of question but good to know, and will do, think ill buy one, what do i have to lose i guess? if it starts to key hole early ill try my best to track the approximate number of rounds
No reason to apologize. Someone may come along with more specific info on the GP measurement and other data you're seeking. As far as keyholing goes, unless the barrel you receive is flat out defective or damaged, that's a pretty remote concern until you get into some seriously high round counts. Or if you sustain prolonged and frequent high rates of fire.
In general, "my rifle is keyholing" threads are very few and far between. As far as the 4150 steel, that's the common and desirable preference. Although, I personally think the 4140 vs 4150 is a bit overstated. It matters to a certain degree. But, with many applications, you'll probably never notice a difference.
Now, the non-lined, untreated aspect might warrant a bit of scrutiny. Ideally, at least having it melonited/nitrided would be preferred. It's not the end of the world to have an untreated barrel, but there are legitimate reasons to desire some form of treatment or lining.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-barrel-m4-ext.html
So, are you thinking of piecing it together, or is the linked barrel only for identifying what you believe will come with a complete upper you've got your eye on? With PSA's prices on complete rifles, uppers and lowers, I'd be going that route.
Unless I missed something, please show us where this is an FN barrel.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-barrel-m4-ext.html
Unless I missed something, please show us where this is an FN barrel.
You missed something.
This is NOT an FN barrel.
Their premium line and CHF line are FN barrels and their Premium Carpenter 158 bolts are FN.
I spoke with a PSA rep at the NRA show in Harrisburg and they are now making their own barrels. They are either melonited or phosphate only with no chrome lining or stainless.
I'm personally not a fan of the PSA made barrels but I have had good results with their Premium and CHF (FN) barrels. We have PSA CHF barrels on our M-16s at work and they are quite accurate and have had zero issues.
HackerF15E
11-16-17, 06:34
http://palmettostatearmory.com/16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-barrel-m4-ext.html
Not made by FN, not chrome lined, and usually when PSA lists the material as "Chrome Moly Steel" they mean 4140, not 4150V/CMV.
So, as you suspected, it is not an FN barrel. To complete the upper, you would need a gas block, gas tube, muzzle device, upper receiver, Forward assist, barrel nut and handguard.
My free advice (worth every penny) - go to Monmouth Reloading, pick up the Aero upper/Toolcraft BCG combo, and then the 16" Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel, either .750 or .625 gas block size and add a gas tube to the cart. The Hanson barrels come with a pinned gas block. Add an Aero charging handle or buy the charging handle you want.
Then wait for ALG Defense to start their black Friday sale and get a EMR rail (comes with barrel nut) and the $5 wrench.
Buy an A2 flash hider and crush washer. That takes care of the upper.
Now go to Tombstone Tactical and pick up a complete Sionics lower. Buy the stock of your choice.
Or just buy a Colt 6920 because you are north of $700 anyway :)
Andy
My experience with one PSA is as follows. Ordered a 10.5 upper since they were dirt cheap and my uncle swears by them. Figured what the hell for under 200 bucks. Granted not the phosphate barrel but what I pasted off their website below. Took it to zero using duty ammo (Speer LE Gold Dot 64 Grain .223) and keyholed all over the place at 25m. Tried a different lot of ammo. Still keyholed. Grabbed one of the duty colt 10.5s we have and shot a perfect group with the same ammo. Sent it back to them, didn't hear anything for a few weeks and then got a shipping notification. Got an upper in the mail with no documentation on what they did/find. I think it's a new upper looking at it but who knows, the original had less than a mag through it. Have not shot the new upper to see if it works. If it keyholes again, I'll just take a refund. My take away for PSA is that if your willing to tinker with it and want a range toy with a cheap price than go for it. I will not use one for hard use. Their prices are dirt cheap, but for just a little more you can get something better IMHO.
"Barrel: Nitride finished chrome moly vanadium barrel. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1:7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a carbine-length gas system. Barrel is is finished off with a classic carbine-length handguard, F-Marked gas sight base, and A2 flash hider."
zebra20zebra20
11-16-17, 09:12
I have owned 3 PSA M4's and have put thousands of rounds through them and have never had a issue with them. They are just as accurate as the day I bought them. One of my rifles I use slidefire (thousands and thousands of rounds through them) and the inside of the barrel looks brand new! Just my opinion!
so palmetto state armory always has great deals on their rifles and ar pistols, lately whole rifles and pistols just a few hundred cheaper than a single bcm or daniel barrel. id like to know if their barrels are decent quality and will last a good amount of classes or at least good enough to outperform me as a crappy shooter lol.
Most barrels outperform most shooters. As others have posted, this is not an FN made barrel.
they are 4150v steel, but are not chrome lined and just phosphate finished.
I doubt the one you linked to is 4150, PSA specifically says 4150 in the specs if they are 4150. For what you are wanting to do, at the same price, this one IS spec'ed 4150 and has a nitride finish versus phosphate. Generally, I've read folks prefer the nitride over phosphate, I don't know firsthand, all my barrels are either stainless or chrome lined:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-4150v-nitride-1-8-with-5-56-nato-1-8-freedom-barrel-516445672.html
What are you wanting to end up with, an M4 clone type with a front sight base, or something free-floated? If it is the former, IMO you cant go wrong with this set-up:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-8-stainless-steel-freedom-upper-no-bcg-or-charging-handle.html
I have this upper, because, well, FN (I thought) barreled upper for $159.00, I couldn't pass it up. It is a tack driver.
Another question, are you building the upper yourself, having a buddy do it, or paying someone to do it? I would not pay someone to install that particular barrel, no reviews, PSA is relatively new to making barrels, etc.
For something I'm building myself I might chance it. If it isn't working - functionally or accuracy-wise - I'll send it back. If you paid someone to build it, you'd would them be on the hook for the labor of uninstall and reinstall.
I have not had any problems with PSA's order fulfillment or shipping, I've never returned anything to them so I can't speak to their return policy.
Have fun!
PrivateCitizen
11-16-17, 17:13
Just to be clear, the FN barrel is here: http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-chf-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-heavy-barrel-cl-hpt-mpi-516445259.html
There is no indication that the $159 assembly is FN, only that the page states:
Barrel: 416R Stainless steel. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1:8 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a mid-length gas system. A2-style profile barrel is finished off with a standard handguard, F-Marked gas sight base, and A2 flash hider.
Upper: Forged 7075-T6 A3 AR upper is machined to MIL-SPECS and hard coat anodized. These uppers are made for us right here in the USA by a mil-spec manufacturer.
That said, if it is at all fun to shoot … rock on.
Just to be clear, the FN barrel is here: http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-chf-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-heavy-barrel-cl-hpt-mpi-516445259.html
There is no indication that the $159 assembly is FN, only that the page states:
That said, if it is at all fun to shoot … rock on.
Man I feel dumb. I thought all their stainless barrels were made by FN. Completely over-looked the fact that it isn't a CHF barrel. Still shoots nice.
bobbytucson
11-16-17, 22:22
No reason to apologize. Someone may come along with more specific info on the GP measurement and other data you're seeking. As far as keyholing goes, unless the barrel you receive is flat out defective or damaged, that's a pretty remote concern until you get into some seriously high round counts. Or if you sustain prolonged and frequent high rates of fire.
In general, "my rifle is keyholing" threads are very few and far between. As far as the 4150 steel, that's the common and desirable preference. Although, I personally think the 4140 vs 4150 is a bit overstated. It matters to a certain degree. But, with many applications, you'll probably never notice a difference.
Now, the non-lined, untreated aspect might warrant a bit of scrutiny. Ideally, at least having it melonited/nitrided would be preferred. It's not the end of the world to have an untreated barrel, but there are legitimate reasons to desire some form of treatment or lining.
So, are you thinking of piecing it together, or is the linked barrel only for identifying what you believe will come with a complete upper you've got your eye on? With PSA's prices on complete rifles, uppers and lowers, I'd be going that route.
Thank you!! And the link was just to reference the barrel the is on the rifles on sale
bobbytucson
11-16-17, 22:25
Unless I missed something, please show us where this is an FN barrel.
You missed nothing, I was asking if someone could confirm my question if they were fn or not. I do have a sionics though and it is my favorite rifle thus far
bobbytucson
11-16-17, 22:30
So, as you suspected, it is not an FN barrel. To complete the upper, you would need a gas block, gas tube, muzzle device, upper receiver, Forward assist, barrel nut and handguard.
My free advice (worth every penny) - go to Monmouth Reloading, pick up the Aero upper/Toolcraft BCG combo, and then the 16" Ballistic Advantage Hanson barrel, either .750 or .625 gas block size and add a gas tube to the cart. The Hanson barrels come with a pinned gas block. Add an Aero charging handle or buy the charging handle you want.
Then wait for ALG Defense to start their black Friday sale and get a EMR rail (comes with barrel nut) and the $5 wrench.
Buy an A2 flash hider and crush washer. That takes care of the upper.
Now go to Tombstone Tactical and pick up a complete Sionics lower. Buy the stock of your choice.
Or just buy a Colt 6920 because you are north of $700 anyway :)
Andy
Lol love it !! I actually own a sionics and love it, infact it's my favorite. I actually hate aero though. I built 2 rifles using aero lowers and neither of the did well with pmags. They would pop out/disengage . I don't know why, but I refuse to buy aero now
bobbytucson
11-16-17, 22:37
What are you wanting to end up with, an M4 clone type with a front sight base, or something free-floated? If it is the former, IMO you cant go wrong with this set-up:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-8-stainless-steel-freedom-upper-no-bcg-or-charging-handle.html
I have this upper, because, well, FN (I thought) barreled upper for $159.00, I couldn't pass it up. It is a tack driver.
Another question, are you building the upper yourself, having a buddy do it, or paying someone to do it? I would not pay someone to install that particular barrel, no reviews, PSA is relatively new to making barrels, etc.
For something I'm building myself I might chance it. If it isn't working - functionally or accuracy-wise - I'll send it back. If you paid someone to build it, you'd would them be on the hook for the labor of uninstall and reinstall.
I have not had any problems with PSA's order fulfillment or shipping, I've never returned anything to them so I can't speak to their return policy.
Have fun!
I plan on buying a complete rifle or upper assembled from factory. I do like to build but I like practicing builds with crappy cheap stuff like Anderson just so I don't end up ruining quality stuff. And I always thought it's best to avoid ss barrels that are on the cheap side, but your link is a heck of a deal!!! Oh and im sticking with A-Frame
bobbytuscon:
I posted about that PSA stainless upper in another thread, I bought it to do a torture test similar to what Eurodriver had done with a 6920. As I sighted it in, I found out it was a shooter, so I put magpul handguards and a Ti-7 stock on it and gave it to my daughter.
That is the only PSA barrel I have. Everything else is either Ballistic Advantage Hanson Profile or from Green Mountain Barrels.
This isn't a complete upper, but the GMB guys make a lot of OEM barrels: http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/gm-m51-m4-barrel-assembly/
If after you've been made aware of PSA's quality, and are still willing to purchase their stuff, good luck.....One thing I don't quite understand is the fascination some have buying PSA barrels and touting that they are 'made by FN'. That really doesn't mean anything in the real world, it's only a recognized name that usually means quality. Just because FN is contracted to produce barrels for PSA does not mean you are getting the same quality barrel you receive with an actual FN build.
FN builds the barrel according to specification set by PSA, and they're usually not the best.
Just beware.......Just because a known quality manufacturer produces an item for a lower quality company does not make it a quality piece, that goes for anybody contracted to product components. The quality is unknown until PSA releases their full specs and certifications for these "FN barrels".
Why even take a chance when there are so many other higher quality options? You may be better off posting something like the OP over on TOS. Those guys are infatuated with PSA.
zebra20zebra20
11-17-17, 14:46
If after you've been made aware of PSA's quality, and are still willing to purchase their stuff, good luck.....One thing I don't quite understand is the fascination some have buying PSA barrels and touting that they are 'made by FN'. That really doesn't mean anything in the real world, it's only a recognized name that usually means quality. Just because FN is contracted to produce barrels for PSA does not mean you are getting the same quality barrel you receive with an actual FN build.
FN builds the barrel according to specification set by PSA, and they're usually not the best.
Just beware.......Just because a known quality manufacturer produces an item for a lower quality company does not make it a quality piece, that goes for anybody contracted to product components. The quality is unknown until PSA releases their full specs and certifications for these "FN barrels".
Why even take a chance when there are so many other higher quality options? You may be better off posting something like the OP over on TOS. Those guys are infatuated with PSA.
Not infatuated with the name, just the quality I have experienced with their barrels. I have owned 3 of their rifles and have put thousands of rounds through them and have never experienced any issue with them. Now, if I was going to war in the Middle East for a year I might think differently or if Martians were to invade earth!
FN builds the barrel according to specification set by PSA, and they're usually not the best.
Just beware.......Just because a known quality manufacturer produces an item for a lower quality company does not make it a quality piece, that goes for anybody contracted to product components. The quality is unknown until PSA releases their full specs and certifications for these "FN barrels".
That is such a tired, garbage argument.
You claim PSA's specs on their FN barrels are "usually not the best", yet also claim that the quality is unknown until they release their specs/certs. In other words, PSA sells low-tier FN barrels of unknown quality? Got it.
I know of only two companies that have ever released ANY type of specification requirements/certifications. So to me, the argument of "made to their spec" is garbage because the consumer has no clue what those exact specifications are.
And spare us the talk of gas port sizes because while valid, it either gets criticized or ignored based on which name is associated with the barrel, much like this entire argument of PSA branded FN barrels.
Since you seem to be "in the know", provide the forum with the specs and certifications of the companies you recommend, less Colt (TDP), BCM, Spikes.
If you aren't at liberty to share that information, provide user reports of these low-tier, PSA branded FN barrels; that should be easy enough.
^^^^^^^
Not really what I said but take it as you wish. I'm not here to argue with anyone, especially about things that have been gone over 1,000's of times before.
If you want PSA, buy PSA. It's your money, do what you like.
There are companies other than Colt that have listed their specs. and certifications for their steel, BCM is one of them. Read around the forum and see for yourself. Just know that barrels are built for companies to their specifications, no matter who produces them. Just because FN supplies them does not get you a standard FN barrel. That isn't really hard to understand.
^^^^^^^
Not really what I said but take it as you wish. I'm not here to argue with anyone, especially about things that have been gone over 1,000's of times before.
If you want PSA, buy PSA. It's your money, do what you like.
There are companies other than Colt that have listed their specs. and certifications for their steel, BCM is one of them. Read around the forum and see for yourself. Just know that barrels are built for companies to their specifications, no matter who produces them. Just because FN supplies them does not get you a standard FN barrel. That isn't really hard to understand.
^^Agree. People seem to forget about PSA peddling rejected Hammer-Forged barrels years ago with the Centurion Arms name on them that couldn't be sanitized all the way off. But like you said, feel free to spend your money on how you see fit.
^^Agree. People seem to forget about PSA peddling rejected Hammer-Forged barrels years ago with the Centurion Arms name on them that couldn't be sanitized all the way off. But like you said, feel free to spend your money on how you see fit.
Try again.
Let's play a game: Who said this? **Hint: it is from a current/former moderator on this forum.
I found out the barrel shop at FN made a mistake a roll marked a few PSA barrels with Centurion logo...
So a mistake by FN turns into PSA "peddling" rejected barrels? Okay.
bobbytucson
11-17-17, 22:27
what the heck is going on here lol ? i thought anything made by fn was g2g
what the heck is going on here lol ? i thought anything made by fn was g2g
Not necessarily. Their customers (noveske, centurion, PSA) dictate the specs and tolerances. I’m not sure if they actually do anything to the barrels or not.
For what it's worth, PSA doesn't sell very many FN barrels now.
Andy
I would assume what would pass for psa as acceptable wouldn’t pass standards for other like noveske. Used to service industrial air compressors and one location made brackets for all the major car brands and they all had diffferent requirements in materials and tolerances
I would assume what would pass for psa as acceptable wouldn’t pass standards for other like noveske. Used to service industrial air compressors and one location made brackets for all the major car brands and they all had diffferent requirements in materials and tolerances
Assumptions, eh.
The FACT is this: if one purchases an FN barrel, they are getting a high quality barrel, regardless of who sells it or the "assumed" specs.
Not saying they are not good barrels but to say different manufacturers don’t have different requirements or standards is crazy. Aero as an example makes lowers for a lot of manufacturers and it is just as insane to say it’s all the same and just a roll Mark. FN I am sure makes barrels for a lot of company’s and each order isn’t the same. As for any subcontractor making similar parts for many companies , there are different specs and QC requirements. There is a real reason PSA products are cheap and FN products on this case are more expensive. They may have a contract for their barrels but doesn’t mean those barrels have the same specs or tight QC as a name brand FN barrel off their site.
I bought a complete PSA Premium upper with CHF FN barrel about 5 years ago. I bought a stripped FN CHF barrel from righttobear a few weeks ago. The stated specifications from each vendor are the same as are the exterior profiles.
It is apparent that the machining done to profile the two barrels was not done to the same standard, but the differences aren't obvious to a novice. A rougher exterior surface in no way affects how the barrel purchased through PSA will work. What isn't known is the quality of the bore and associated chrome plating.
Even if the PSA sourced barrel's interior is also machined/plated to a slightly lower quality standard, the barrel as a whole is still of good enough quality for most users, including the OP. I use this upper as a loaner and range blaster. It has been completely reliable and shoots groups as well as my other better rifles.
Unfortunately, it would have been just as likely for it to have been a POS.
The linked barrel is an "okay" barrel, don't expect tack driving accuracy, but it should be usable for 2 to 3 inches at 100 yards with the average shooter.
Should be a .078" gas port.
Assumptions, eh.
The FACT is this: if one purchases an FN barrel, they are getting a high quality barrel, regardless of who sells it or the "assumed" specs.
Do you have their spec sheet or are you assuming?
Unless someone has seen the spec sheet, wereally don’t know either way.
Unless I missed something, please show us where this is an FN barrel.
Please show me where the barrel is built properly and is not a rejected piece from another company....
People don’t seem to care about quality, but instead come here seeking validation.
Assumptions, eh.
The FACT is this: if one purchases an FN barrel, they are getting a high quality barrel, regardless of who sells it or the "assumed" specs.
No, it is not an assumption. If a company sells the rejects of another company, how do you have any idea what the level of quality is you are getting?
Please don’t tell me you think all barrels are the same from FN. If you do, don’t beat around the bush, post it clearly so we can quote you. I’ll let you know ahead of time you are going to be mocked for being wrong, but it seems like that is what you are hinting at.
No, it is not an assumption. If a company sells the rejects of another company, how do you have any idea what the level of quality is you are getting?
I'll ask again: Who said this? **Hint: it is from a current/former moderator of this forum.
I found out the barrel shop at FN made a mistake a roll marked a few PSA barrels with Centurion logo...
So a mistake by FN turns into PSA "peddling" rejected barrels? Okay.
My stance has always been that regardless of the "assumed" specs, if you have a barrel produced by FN, it is a quality barrel. Period.
I'll wait for the mocking to start. Oh, and mock SMGLee too as he was the one who claimed FN made the MISTAKE of rollmarking PSA barrels with the Centurion logo.
It seems that every time a discussion like this gets started someone mentions rejects or out of spec parts being sold to lower end manufacturers.
Does anyone have actual firsthand experience with a manufacturer of firearms components 1) creating enough out of spec parts to supply a low-priced high volume retailer; and 2) actually admitting that they do so.
Because if the guy I pay to build my parts screws up enough that he could supply a company in the same industry with the rejects, I'm probably going to be looking for a better supplier.
My point is that the folks making purchasing decisions for components at each AR producer probably know who is supplying what to whom. Producing and selling lots and lots o' rejects would cost the component manufacturer business in the long run.
If the dimensional tolerance of a part is +/- .0025 and company 'A' specifies tolerances within +/- .001 and company 'B' specifies tolerances within +/- .002 that does not equal company 'B' buying rejects. It means the manufacturer does runs to those specs.
If they do one run and portion parts according to tolorance, they are non - conformant to ‘A’ spec. They may not have a chance to reject them, but they are out of spec for that customer. If customer b didn’t exist, the parts would be scrap, or go to another company.
If they do one run and portion parts according to tolorance, they are non - conformant to ‘A’ spec. They may not have a chance to reject them, but they are out of spec for that customer. If customer b didn’t exist, the parts would be scrap, or go to another company.
My point being, in the case of FN, after you think about it, do you really think if they are manufacturing to meet spec 'A' they would generate enough out of spec parts to supply PSA? If so, they need to reexamine their processes.
Wouldn't it be more likely that overruns are discounted, or that since they have the tooling set up they use the tools to fulfill other contracts?
PSA, is g2g. Try to steer clear of their ptac line.
Their premium parts are g2g. I wouldn't run one in full auto for Thousands of rounds though.
2-3 moa at 100 yards, is just fine for most situations. The fact is, they will still be more accurate then your average shooter.
Their premium parts are g2g. I wouldn't run one in full auto for Thousands of rounds though.
Have you read anything about Battlefield Las Vegas?
From Battlefield Las Vegas on renting short (16" run much smoother) barreled FULL AUTO PSA uppers:
"I've had quite a few PM's asking about the status of the Palmetto State Armory uppers. We have been running 5.56mm uppers with CHF and nitride 10.5", 11.5" and 12" barrel lengths as well as the 10.5" melonite 9mm uppers.
I never purchased melonite or nitrided uppers prior to these PSA units (that I know of) and was actually more concerned about physical appearance to be honest. I know that even the cheapest barrels have lasted 10's of thousands of rounds with no issue but I wasn't sure how well the finish would hold up with all the cleaning and handling.
As I've stated before, physical appearance is almost as important and functionality because customers who've never handled firearms before don't have much confidence in an ugly but reliable weapon.
All three of the different types of uppers have held up with no issues or reliability of finish. These uppers in particular are getting used more than the others at this point because we put so many on the line.
Of course, they are worried about minute of watermelon.
My point being, in the case of FN, after you think about it, do you really think if they are manufacturing to meet spec 'A' they would generate enough out of spec parts to supply PSA? If so, they need to reexamine their processes.
Wouldn't it be more likely that overruns are discounted, or that since they have the tooling set up they use the tools to fulfill other contracts?
I have no idea what FNs capability is, or the financials or cpk’s. What I do know, is that my company has a similar situation, and everything is made to A’s spec. Any fallout is sent to B only, where everything else can go to either company.
So company B gets a lot of material better-than-spec, but they also receive the occasional piece that is out of As acceptance range.
Is this how FN works? I don’t think anyone really knows, but it’s possible. All I’m saying is it’s possible. People are putting some bold statements out there without any proof.
You can also control your process to hit a certain percentage out of As spec to balance in-spec for A, in spec for B and maximize production- which is where we are headed. It’s all statistics.
Have you read anything about Battlefield Las Vegas?
.
I read somwhere, that They had begun running psa's. I had not read about the results.
However, my comment about running fullauto for Thousands of rounds, was towards their premium barrels. Not the chf.
I own 4 or 5 psa barrels, no issues.
I have no idea what FNs capability is, or the financials or cpk’s. What I do know, is that my company has a similar situation, and everything is made to A’s spec. Any fallout is sent to B only, where everything else can go to either company.
So company B gets a lot of material better-than-spec, but they also receive the occasional piece that is out of As acceptance range.
Is this how FN works? I don’t think anyone really knows, but it’s possible. All I’m saying is it’s possible. People are putting some bold statements out there without any proof.
You can also control your process to hit a certain percentage out of As spec to balance in-spec for A, in spec for B and maximize production- which is where we are headed. It’s all statistics.
Thanks for the example. Makes perfect sense.
HackerF15E
11-20-17, 12:25
People are putting some bold statements out there without any proof.
This is really the bottom line.
If a company sells the rejects of another company....
Actually, I think you need to provide proof of this accusation.
flshooter556
12-05-17, 15:52
If I go with PSA i only am interested in their nitride offerings or if a good deal CHF.
I got a 16” mid length freedom upper from them that is melonite coated.
I don’t have much more than 6k rounds though it but it runs great and handles a wide selection of ammo with no issues. It’s also more accurate than I am.
I also never clean the thing. Run a bore shake through it and the barrel looks great inside. Won’t know long term till I put much more ammo through it.
I understand getting high end stuff if you’re running full auto or if you’re shooting lot. I’d like a nice noveske barrel but the PSA is great for now having fun and plinking and even being very accurate.
Only thing I’ve had bad from PSA is a nickel boron treated BCG. Even that wasn’t a catastrophic failure. The coating flakes off but still runs just fine.
My expirience with PSA barrels is limited to a premium 16" M4 upper (FN button rifled, chrome lined, 4150 and phosphate, with a FSB). The barrel shoots well but is overgassed. I have no way to measure the gas port, but installing a .060 BRT custom tune gas port calmed it down nicely.
I'm not unhappy with the barrel, but I think there are better barrels for your (and my) money.
Andy
zebra20zebra20
12-05-17, 17:13
I read somwhere, that They had begun running psa's. I had not read about the results.
However, my comment about running fullauto for Thousands of rounds, was towards their premium barrels. Not the chf.
I own 4 or 5 psa barrels, no issues.
Likewise for me, as I have owned several of their premium barrels. I have run thousands of rounds through these barrels via Surefire with no issues! Some say that there crap, but then again, I have heard issues about many barrels having quality issues at one time or another!.
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