View Full Version : Any drawbacks to mounting a light on the FSB?
I am looking at one of these MI light mounts (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Midwest-Industries-MCTAR-01-p/mctar-01.htm), to attach a Streamlight on my FSB.
Wondered if others have tried mounting lights in this area, and if this is a good solid place to mount, or if you found any significant drawbacks?
Master_of_Sparks
10-11-08, 19:41
I do not mount anything to the FSB, ever.
Jay Cunningham
10-11-08, 19:42
Just make sure you Loc-Tite it and it should be GTG.
I do not see any problems with it.
I do not mount anything to the FSB, ever.
Just curious, did you run into problems when trying to attach something there?
urbankaos04
10-12-08, 01:50
I do not mount anything to the FSB, ever.
If I may ask, I'm interested to know your rationale for this?
I do not mount anything to the FSB, ever.
what about a bayonet? do you ever mount a bayonet to your FSB?
heretolearn
10-12-08, 03:02
I generally like to mount another AR15 to my FSB, so i have a backup.
Just remember to get the off-set mount.
David F.
Parabellum9x19mm
10-12-08, 05:30
Just remember to get the off-set mount.
i like the pivot mount. i go corner-shot style with my secondary AR.
remember, two is one and one is none
Here's another option: GG&G's SLiC Thing: side sling swivel on one side, and flashlight mount on the other.
I have the MI FSB mount and have never had any problems with it.
I've got two of them. One on a 9mm and the other on a 5.56 ar both with a G2 and weaver ring. Just use Loctite like The_Katar suggested, I did step up to red loctite after it came lose once.
-Jesse
TheActivePatriot
10-12-08, 16:15
You'll want to use red locktite. Anything attached to the FSB will get hot enough under sustained firing to burn off the blue. Red will soften somewhat but should hold.
JTipper.45
10-13-08, 13:13
I have three rifles that all have a Surefire FSB clamp with Surefire lights mounted in them offset to the right. Two are Colts and one Bushy, never had a problem with any of them. The clamps are no longer in production but they usually can locate new/old stock. Part # used to be M25.
I use that same MI mount with a weaver scope ring holding a G2. I used blue Loc-Tite and on this past range trip the MI mount did in fact loosen up on me. The scope ring did not loosen, so I believe TheActivePatriot is right on: the heat will cause the blue Loc-Tite to let go.
Lots of folks around here use a FSB mount for a light. In my limited experience it appears to be the next best option behind putting rails on your upper.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/stelks98z28/IMG_1220.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/stelks98z28/IMG_1224.jpg
98z28: how do you sling up? I didn't see a front mount, nor behind the receiver.
I do not mount anything to the FSB, ever.
Same here.
The only problem I see is the heat issue. Man that thing gets hot!
98z28: how do you sling up? I didn't see a front mount, nor behind the receiver.
With one of these around the d-ring (that is an old picture): http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=UWL&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DBFGE
seeing that light mounted there on that FSB, apeture perspective.... a badguy crouched in a corner with a blaster would pretty easily fit behind the profile of the light. I don't think i like that.
a lot of swat guys like to run heads up, or even muzzle down, now- the idea being the improved visibility outweighs re-zero speed during a dynamic entry. maybe that's cause they've all got big ass flashlights stapped to their FSBs
RAM Engineer
10-15-08, 07:04
seeing that light mounted there on that FSB, apeture perspective.... a badguy crouched in a corner with a blaster would pretty easily fit behind the profile of the light. I don't think i like that.
Yeah and a car could be hiding in your blind spot when you change lanes. It's up to YOU to scan and assess. In a car this involves leaning forward slightly and turning your head while maintaining your current direction.
To be sure, 10 or 2 o'clock are not optimum like a 12 o'clock mount, but everything involves tradeoffs.
Jay Cunningham
10-15-08, 07:40
seeing that light mounted there on that FSB, apeture perspective.... a badguy crouched in a corner with a blaster would pretty easily fit behind the profile of the light. I don't think i like that.
a lot of swat guys like to run heads up, or even muzzle down, now- the idea being the improved visibility outweighs re-zero speed during a dynamic entry. maybe that's cause they've all got big ass flashlights stapped to their FSBs
You are making a lot of assumptions. You need to participate in some low light training first before you make judgements about "what works" - also, how many "swat guys" have you actually talked to about your concerns?
The point being there are in fact "swat guys" on this forum and lots of other guys who have had extensive low light training - more reading and less posting is probably in order.
Have you checked out the following thread yet?
Low Light Basics (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16114)
Lagadelphia
10-15-08, 07:50
I use the GG&G Sling thing which I also attach my sling to obviously:) Works fine thus far with my Streamlight. I activate the light with my index finger of my weak hand.
seeing that light mounted there on that FSB, apeture perspective.... a badguy crouched in a corner with a blaster would pretty easily fit behind the profile of the light. I don't think i like that.
a lot of swat guys like to run heads up, or even muzzle down, now- the idea being the improved visibility outweighs re-zero speed during a dynamic entry. maybe that's cause they've all got big ass flashlights stapped to their FSBs
Perhaps they don't wanna shoot their buddy in the back of the head....
I ran a SLIC mount for awhile, and some time ago, at my former work place, they ran old school SureFire's, attached to the front sight tower, w/ the lamp at 12, and the body dog legged around to the right, no problems that I ever heard of.
Bob
You are making a lot of assumptions. You need to participate in some low light training first before you make judgements about "what works" - also, how many "swat guys" have you actually talked to about your concerns?
The point being there are in fact "swat guys" on this forum and lots of other guys who have had extensive low light training - more reading and less posting is probably in order.
Have you checked out the following thread yet?
Low Light Basics (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16114)
I'll check out the thread.
What assumptions? I raised a concern that came to mind when looking at the photo. i'm not a swat guy, im a former infantryman with pretty basic MOUT training- no, i'm no expert- but yes, i have a valid perspective.
I have had zero in-depth conversations with any swat guys regarding lights on FSB- I've never hung crap on my FSB, so it's never occured to me that a light there might limit visibility. i knew guys in the army who did put shit there, but no one ever made any complaints beyond getting it stuck in someone's LCE.
but my comment regarding swat was basically a joke- a joke with plenty of possibility for some truth to it.
more reading, less posting? whats with the insults? i said "i dont think i like that," how's that some kind of unqualified opinion?
Jay Cunningham
10-15-08, 20:50
I'll check out the thread.
What assumptions? I raised a concern that came to mind when looking at the photo. i'm not a swat guy, im a former infantryman with pretty basic MOUT training- no, i'm no expert- but yes, i have a valid perspective.
I have had zero in-depth conversations with any swat guys regarding lights on FSB- I've never hung crap on my FSB, so it's never occured to me that a light there might limit visibility. i knew guys in the army who did put shit there, but no one ever made any complaints beyond getting it stuck in someone's LCE.
but my comment regarding swat was basically a joke- a joke with plenty of possibility for some truth to it.
more reading, less posting? whats with the insults? i said "i dont think i like that," how's that some kind of unqualified opinion?
In order to maintain a site that is an effective database of good information, it is best to post information that you have first hand knowledge of. If you are repeating information that you have been told or have read from another poster, it is best to disclose that in the opening of the post. This is a reminder to keep the forum as technical as possible. Thank you.
My preference: I don't mount anything that high into my line of sight. I don't like losing a moving target behind it.
My preference: I don't mount anything that high into my line of sight. I don't like losing a moving target behind it.
odd
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/IMG_2868Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/IMG_2867Medium.jpg
Ned Christiansen
10-16-08, 15:46
I made one like that for a buddy deployed to Djibouti in '02. Next thing I knew I had a PO from company petty cash for 125 of them! I knew there were some drawbacks to the design but never heard any complaints from the guys.
For a long time I mounted things to the FSB (eventually migrating them to the front, from the sides or bottom, for the above stated reasoning that it can block the view). I had this abhorrence of mounting anything directly to the barrel, out of concerns that the harmonics would change the POI.... which they do, to some extent, sometimes. I finally got enough testing done to show that really, mounting to the FSB IS mounting to the barrel after all, in terms of effect on the POI, which is nearly insignificant sometimes. Anyway, a carbine should be checked for zero any time anything is added, not to mention zero checked every so often just on principles.
I just hate stuff in my sight picture. Not for any tactical reasons. I just hate it. It's distracting.
The VTAC mount puts the light very close to the sight tower, yet it's impossible to see the light in my sight picture.
I had this abhorrence of mounting anything directly to the barrel, out of concerns that the harmonics would change the POI.... which they do, to some extent, sometimes. I finally got enough testing done to show that really, mounting to the FSB IS mounting to the barrel after all, in terms of effect on the POI, which is nearly insignificant sometimes. Anyway, a carbine should be checked for zero any time anything is added, not to mention zero checked every so often just on principles.
Ok, good to know. This impact on the POI is one of the "drawbacks" I was concerned about.
If you zero the carbine, THEN add something to the barrel or FSB, the POI can shift.
Solution: zero AFTER adding the accessories.
In order to maintain a site that is an effective database of good information, it is best to post information that you have first hand knowledge of. If you are repeating information that you have been told or have read from another poster, it is best to disclose that in the opening of the post. This is a reminder to keep the forum as technical as possible. Thank you.
Repeat information? About swat running heads up/muzzle down? That's information I got from a class on dynamic entry planning at an ACCJT seminar about a year ago, and have heard from a couple local swat officers in my home town, and half-forgotten tactics articles I've read. i'm not usually interested in swat or what different swat teams are doing, as the few swat guys i've met have been wannabe-elitist, i-know-everything-so-you-can't-know-anything type nerds. But i remember the question, because i was taught in MOUT training, 7 or 8 years ago, to enter muzzles-up/eyes-on-sights. Who is right or wrong doesn't even concern me- i don't kick in doors for a living.
I just didn't like the idea of limited visibility.
i'll do my best to site sources in the future, but people do often share knowledge without thinking to site their source. a simple "where'd you learn that?" can easily keep insults out of the conversation.
Apart from avoiding pointing the muzzle at yourself and your buddies, the "best" ready position is highly situational dependent.
One size does not fit all, and one technique does not fit all.
Muzzle up, muzzle down, indoor ready, Sul, close contact ready, it all depends on the situation.
Consider factors such as solo operator, team tactics, uses of a stack or a wedge, CQB, open terrain, use of handheld and/or mounted lights, position in the stack or wedge, moving, running, kneeling, going up stairs, going down stairs, etc. etc. etc.
Some guys prefer some for some situations, others depend on others.
1st guy in a stack can do pretty much whatever he wants. 2 man, 3 man, etc. all have fewer options.
Going up a stairwell, I generally use a high ready position. Going down, as the 1 man, I usually use a low ready position. If I'm not the 1 man, I'm going to use a muzzle up position.
Back to the FSB mounted light interfering with your field of view, would not mounting the light on a RIS/RAS at either 9 or 3 oclock have a similar effect?
How about the rail system itself? How about a 203, or a PEQ?
That you are or should be using binocular vision would also lessen the effect of this visual clutter, just as your binocular vision compensates for the visual clutter of your nose, or the limited field of view of using only 1 eye.
Of course, using a muzzle up position creates a helluva lot more visual clutter than using a long gun in a muzzle down position.
In ending, I have used FSB mounted lights at 3 and 9, lights mounted at 6, and rail mounted lights at 3 and 9.
I have had zero issues with the FSB mounted lights. Not one. Thus, I continue to use them, until something better comes along.
YMMV,
R/S
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