"Uniqueness" of Church Security

[echo5whiskey]

Recently, I've been party to a discussion regarding church security. With the latest active shooter events in several churches, I have heard a lot of folks pushing for a consultation with one of the companies who "specialize" in church security. At first glance, it sounds logical, but after giving it some thought, I have questions. What makes church security so unique, and why must there be a "specialty?" How is securing a church so much different than securing a school or store or office building? Some of the initial information I've seen and heard seems almost gimmicky, so maybe someone can help me understand.

For the record, I have no dogs in the fight. I attend a very small church, and we have (IMO) a pretty solid plan for our size. I've been speaking with others who attend larger congregations.

Also for the record, I have a pretty solid base of knowledge and experience with general physical security and security plans. While the church I attend now is small, I have been a member of several larger churches before, so I am pretty familiar with what [I believe] the requirements would be.

[VARIABLE9]

soft target
lack of hardened security measures
lack of electronic security measures (CCTV monitoring, metal detectors)
vulnerable parishoners such as women, elderly, children, even non security minded individuals (we are with god in a safe place...)
lack of desire to have 'guards' to set a negative image
guards that may not be a deterrent (unarmed or more like ushers, untrained, et cetera)
published or vocalized by congregation leadership to have a weapons free zone

[VARIABLE9]

lets not forget:
backs to entrance
no practice for emergency egress plan
limited mobility due to pews
limited emergency egress routes

[SeriousStudent]

You should also look into the current laws here in Texas requiring armed guards to be licensed. Gov Abbott has discussed introducing legislation to change that, but it's still the law.

Some additional reading:

https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/index.php/frontpage-articles/59-church-security-teams-chl-s

http://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/psb/

Since you are here in Texas, I would reach out to Steve Moses.

http://gracietyler.com/trainer/steve-moses/

Steve is a good dude, and a friend. He teaches seminars on church security, and would have good info for your congregation.

[The_War_Wagon]

It's a matter of concern for me as well. Being in the northeast urban cessmaze, I'm more concerned about the pink tutu brigade busting through our door some morning - or possibly mohammedans (doctrinally, we oppose them both) - but as Sutherland Springs proved, small churches are not beyond the random crazoid.

Thankfully, MOST of what I've been reading on "church security," takes a lot of practical things into consideration, like, are your fire extinguishers functional? Do you have an AED, and are people trained to use it? Are you prepared for hazardous inclement weather (blizzard, tornado, hurricane, etc.)? They deal with OVERALL "security/emergency planning," and those sorts of concerns are still more likely for MOST churches, than an active shooter.

THAT said, the active shooter IS the MOST daunting challenge of all. MOST PD's have never dealt with an active mass shooter, much less even highly motivated, well-trained church security details. We had an eye-opening experience this past January, when a local SWAT situation went down around our church. The SWAT team brought local residents into our church (right as church was letting out - those still inside were locked down for 2+ hours), making for an unexpected 'emergency' on our part - dealing with half-naked, confused neighbors & children, and roving police moving throughout our church, ed building, and campus (neighbors took pictures of SWAT snipers deployed in the parsonage yard behind the sanctuary!).

Problem we still have, is people more scared of insurance liability issues, than active shooters! Overcoming THAT mindset - to say nothing of CCW during the service - lends to institutional inertia, which leads to - another atrocity, waiting to happen. :(

[echo5whiskey]

soft target
lack of hardened security measures
lack of electronic security measures (CCTV monitoring, metal detectors)
vulnerable parishoners such as women, elderly, children, even non security minded individuals (we are with god in a safe place...)
lack of desire to have 'guards' to set a negative image
guards that may not be a deterrent (unarmed or more like ushers, untrained, et cetera)
published or vocalized by congregation leadership to have a weapons free zone


lets not forget:
backs to entrance
no practice for emergency egress plan
limited mobility due to pews
limited emergency egress routes

I get all that. But the ways to mitigate those issues seem like fairly standard responses. A church can harden physical security measures. Any place that is open to the public will most likely have a wide variety of fairly clueless occupants. There are a lot of places that don't want uniformed guards. Any members of a security team should undergo training. There are a lot of commercial places that have just as many or fewer exits than most churches that I've seen. About the only thing that stands out as being unique to a church would be pews, but even that can be comparable to the cubicles in an office setting.

[echo5whiskey]

You should also look into the current laws here in Texas requiring armed guards to be licensed. Gov Abbott has discussed introducing legislation to change that, but it's still the law.

Some additional reading:

https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/index.php/frontpage-articles/59-church-security-teams-chl-s

http://www.dps.texas.gov/rsd/psb/

Since you are here in Texas, I would reach out to Steve Moses.

http://gracietyler.com/trainer/steve-moses/

Steve is a good dude, and a friend. He teaches seminars on church security, and would have good info for your congregation.

Thanks! I appreciate that insight. I will definitely try to reach out to him. Also, if it's alright, PM inbound with some further information that might shed more light.

[aclawrence]

I’m grateful to be part of a church that is fairly proactive in the security area. We call it our “safety awareness team”. We go through different training for different types of emergencies. You have to pass handgun training if you want to be on the team and carry. We’ve done some stuff ranging from basic medical stuff to worst case scenario active shooter. We definitely don’t have it all figured out or think we’re special or anything like that but I do feel our church is much more prepared and “safer” since we have gone through some training.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[echo5whiskey]

I’m grateful to be part of a church that is fairly proactive in the security area. We call it our “safety awareness team”. We go through different training for different types of emergencies. You have to pass handgun training if you want to be on the team and carry. We’ve done some stuff ranging from basic medical stuff to worst case scenario active shooter. We definitely don’t have it all figured out or think we’re special or anything like that but I do feel our church is much more prepared and “safer” since we have gone through some training.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have you done anything of the sort outside of your church?

[aclawrence]

No I have not had any other “security” type training. We hired someone to come in and help with the training. I forget what his job title is but he does security for a variety of individual clients and other businesses. Also our group leader for our safety team is a local police chief. As far as the uniqueness of church security I’m not that it is that unique. One thing to consider is the separation of the kids from the adults. Lots of kids in one areas while most of the adults are in the sanctuary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[yoni]

You all think church security is a pain in the rear to get in place, try synagogue security.

[Paul Howe]

Churches have always been a soft target and a magnet for problems. Mental, emotional, drugs, etc. Churches always want to keep all their doors open which creates problems with unhindered/unchecked entry points. Times have changed and the Texas church was unprepared. The pastor was unprepared. The members of the church were unprepared. They relied on luck that day and it was not with them.

First, a CHL holder is no more prepared to use a gun than someone who goes into a music store and buys an instrument. They must practice with it. It might make them personally feel good that they own it, but unless they seek further training, they are dangerous with a weapon.

Next, churches do not want to invest in their own security. I have trained staffs from mega-churches and they understand the need to have security with thousands attending each worship day. They practice and are ready to deal with many problems that can arise.

Combat mindset is totally opposite to the thought process of most church staffs. Most would rather go fetal and take a bullet than to take a life to save a life. Life is about choices and consequences.

Church security is much like school security and Guardian programs. It should be layered, it should include medical and it should include safe link-ups with police.

Too many untrained bubbas with guns can cause a train wreck during an evolving problem or active situation. Churches need to invest is a few inexpensive radios to tie their security team together. Also, the security team needs to practice when the church is empty to work out their security plans and responses.

Finally, knowledge is power in preventing problems. If someone in the church is having serious emotional/drug or mental issues, the security staff needs to be quietly notified and on the alert until that person seeks treatment and is responding in a positive manner.

It does take time, money and the proper training to do. If someone teaches school security, they could teach church. It is a fixed target and the team is there to protect the flock in terms of the church and kids in the terms of the school.

If you go to church, ask the church leader if they have a plan. If they do not, you have a plan and try to encourage one. Don't let the egos with guns and know it all's drive your plan. Find someone who has a cool head and experience. Everyone wants to be the church security leader, but few are qualified.

Paul

[aclawrence]

I agree I would be terrified to be around some of the people that are surely carrying guns out there that haven’t shot in who knows how long lol. I hope I never have to fire my gun in church with so many people around. One situation churches deal with will be some kind of child custody type of stuff where a parent who is not supposed to have the child is trying to remove the child from the nursery. Homeless people you have to watch because they always come in with a backpack. Got to have a plan for that. Most common stuff is a kind accuses another kid of something. We had this happen just the other day, went and check the security cameras and saw what really happened. We have also have a ldy trip and fall and have to go to the ER stuff like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also how to remove someone sitting right in the middle of the pew who stands up and starts shouting obscenities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ST911]

There is a lot of cross-over between church security methods and other infrastructure, institutional, force protection, and EP designs. The disconnect is that none of those other institutions have scriptures and their tenets, which many misapply when considering safety measures. If your church body is part of bigger, corporate church (major denominations, regional/state synods and conferences, etc) you have additional hurdles and potential regulation to consider. For example, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) has taken official positions, from its highest offices and largest synods, in favor of assorted gun control measures. The downstream effect in their churches is considerable.

Learning to speak the language and address barriers that arise specific to the church context is critical for support of clergy, lay leadership, and membership. Here are a couple of places that do it particularly well, and provide a lengthy list of resources.

Training: https://intruderresponse.com/courses/church-security-training-courses/ (Several classes scheduled in the next 60 days in SD, TX, MO, OH)
Insurance/Risk Management: https://www.brotherhoodmutual.com/

Start simply, and build the program as the barriers fall and the membership buys-in.

[Paul Howe]

This is a good dialogue.

Yes, once they buy in, use of force issues arise with various situation churches will encounter. With each state and local venue, you will have to get with local LE and the DA to see what they will allow you to do.

Can you legally detain a mentally unstable person screaming?

If not, can you move the congregation away and take a break until law enforcement arrives? These are the legal questions that law enforcement have to answer and you have to plan for. Do your gun carries put hands on someone and are they trained in weapon retention?

Do you have larger members who are not carrying restrain that person or move them away from the main body of attendees?

How many times to do you have to tell a person to leave the premises before it becomes a criminal trespass? Can you eject them with reasonable force?

Education, planning and training is the key. There is blood on the floor from many previous church incidents. We know the answers to the test. Do churches wish to step up to protect their people or play the odds that it will not happen in their church?

Thanks for the positive comments.

Paul

[VARIABLE9]

I thought you were asking what made CS unique, that’s why I offered the points I listed.
As others have stated it’s not much different than other AS or public safety considerations.
Have key members of church practice a ‘fire drill’, and ensure there are people who understand Run Hide Fight e.g. ushers or elders or daycare staffers.
Partner with your local police department and ask them to walk through your facility and look at existing security measures. Or the state police. See if your county is part of a state wide anti terrorism task force, or conducts mass casualty planning. Let them use your facility for a drill. Contact the FBI or FEMA for any literature or media based training resources.
Also situational awareness and behavioral observation training could be a minimally invasive measure for identifying a wide variety of problems. Here is a program that may still offer training, not certain.

http://www.nerac.us/behavioral-observation-and-suspicious-activity-recognition-bosar-training-announcement/

Behavioral Observation and Suspicious Activity Recognition (BOSAR) Training Announcement
Posted by Tim Moore on May 18, 2015 in Uncategorized | 0 comments
NERAC is pleased to be offering three Behavioral Observation and Suspicious Activity Recognition (BOSAR) training courses this spring.

This two-day program was designed by the New York City Police Department and will be taught by the Massachusetts State Police on May 28-29, June 3-4, and June 10-11, 2015 at Logan Airport. Attendees will learn to observe and identify anomalies in their surrounding environment that may be indicative of terrorist activities, and to conduct field interviews using modern techniques including body language, gestures, and facial expressions to assist in identifying whether individuals are lying or being truthful. Though the training was designed by law enforcement, the intended audience is anyone in the public safety community who regularly interacts with the public, including hospital security staff.



This will is an excellent training opportunity for anyone who has events coming up this summer, such as parades, 4th of July celebrations, road races, or other public gatherings.

[SeriousStudent]

MSG Howe, thank you for your thoughts. Your insights are always appreciated.

And I'll see you next year in Nacogdoches. :)

[The_War_Wagon]

You all think church security is a pain in the rear to get in place, try synagogue security.

REALLY?! They seem to be MORE on top of it here in Pittsburgh, than the churches are!

https://jfedpgh.org/security-events - hope that helps your cause where you are. They hired a former FBI official to design security for the Synagogues here in Pittsburgh!


And a new tidbit from Survivalblog - where I've been waiting to see what kind of response folks might post. https://survivalblog.com/texas-church-shooting-aftermath-sophie-texas/#more-50047

[echo5whiskey]

For clarification, I am completely on board with training--good, solid, established training methods and mindset. Variable9, you are correct in stating the purpose of this thread. I meant it to learn what sets church security apart. I believe that has been established.

Here are my main takeaways regarding "uniqueness":

1. My church is not part of a corporate denomination. ST1911, thank you for that; that was something that had not even crossed my mind, and hasn't come up in my other conversations. It seems that in those situations and with larger congregations, the main issue is a communication barrier. Whether it's a denominational leader, archbishop, senior pastor, etc.; it seems that guns in church may still be somewhat taboo. I guess that main goal is to communicate the necessity of safeguarding the flock from the physical "wolves," so to speak.

2. As SS and Mr Howe pointed out, the other unique situation is the legality of a member 1) carrying a firearm, 2) as an "official" volunteer, 3) and what his/her boundaries are regarding use of force. To contrast this with a business setting, for instance, they will hire an actual guard who most likely will have to be licensed to carry out his/her job description. I guess it's as much of a contrast, as it is point that is most likely not given much thought.


Once you get past those, it seems to me that the standard measures for security would still apply; hardened physical security, access control, surveillance, command and control, written and practiced plans, and--most importantly--training.

Have I missed anything?

Variable, that's also an outstanding idea on using the church for a mass-cas drill.

[opngrnd]

I've been down this road before. IMHO:
Step 1 is personal proficiency, as it always is. Get individual training.
Step 2 is leadership. This has been pointed out already. Have a plan everyone understands that is endorsed by the leadership.
Step 3 is the legal aspect. What is legal, and how much responsibility are you willing to assume? This varies much from state to state, and from individual to individual.

^Just my .02 cents, which mirrors what you've already heard. I'd just like to doubly stress Step 1. All the endorsement, legal authority, and righteousness in the world may be of little help if the responsible individual (you) are not prepared.

[ST911]

Here's a great example of what we're talking about re: the uniqueness of church security...


Once you get past those, it seems to me that the standard measures for security would still apply; hardened physical security, access control, surveillance, command and control, written and practiced plans, and--most importantly--training.

Change the language... Everything is a mission, ministry, or outreach. Surveillance and access control are greeters, ushers, and fellowship hosts. MASCAL and tacmedic preps are the Elder Care Team. External perimeter are parking and wheelchair assistants. SOPs are Service Notes and crime prevention directives are found in the Building Stewardship Guide.

The CARE Team is a visitors first contact as they arrive to worship and glorify God and they leave the service feeling loved. If their intentions are otherwise, they meet the same CARE (Counter Assault and Rapid Evacuation) Team and are served with the same resolve.

That's the uniqueness.

[echo5whiskey]

Here's a great example of what we're talking about re: the uniqueness of church security...

Change the language... Everything is a mission, ministry, or outreach. Surveillance and access control are greeters, ushers, and fellowship hosts. MASCAL and tacmedic preps are the Elder Care Team. External perimeter are parking and wheelchair assistants. SOPs are Service Notes and crime prevention directives are found in the Building Stewardship Guide.

The CARE Team is a visitors first contact as they arrive to worship and glorify God and they leave the service feeling loved. If their intentions are otherwise, they meet the Counter Assault and Rapid Evacuation Team and are served with the same resolve.

That's the uniqueness.

Right. That addresses the communication barrier perfectly.

So, in reference to my original post, is that communication barrier enough reason to go to a "specialist" in church security? Would it not be just as prudent to consult with any other risk assessment professional/security trainer so long as the language is changed to fulfill the congregational/denominational/religious hierarchy need?

[yoni]

REALLY?! They seem to be MORE on top of it here in Pittsburgh, than the churches are!

https://jfedpgh.org/security-events - hope that helps your cause where you are. They hired a former FBI official to design security for the Synagogues here in Pittsburgh!

[/url]

My Synagogue doesn't need to hire an exFBI agents that has book knowledge about how to set up security. They have me with 25 years boots on the ground fighting terrorist and a couple of other ex IDF infantry guys.
But they just want to talk about hiring a security company to secure us.

I presented to the board a plan that we could implement for less than $1000 for some improvements and then some involvement by members.

[shotmeshotu]

My Synagogue doesn't need to hire an exFBI agents that has book knowledge about how to set up security. They have me with 25 years boots on the ground fighting terrorist and a couple of other ex IDF infantry guys.
But they just want to talk about hiring a security company to secure us.

I presented to the board a plan that we could implement for less than $1000 for some improvements and then some involvement by members.

Churches dont need MI6 kinda security, all the hate and shooting at church are done by mindless people who have no tactical training, a couple guys with permit, long range shooting experience and experience in evacuating people and some little medical emergencies will do.


Here's a great example of what we're talking about re: the uniqueness of church security...



Change the language... Everything is a mission, ministry, or outreach. Surveillance and access control are greeters, ushers, and fellowship hosts. MASCAL and tacmedic preps are the Elder Care Team. External perimeter are parking and wheelchair assistants. SOPs are Service Notes and crime prevention directives are found in the Building Stewardship Guide.

The CARE Team is a visitors first contact as they arrive to worship and glorify God and they leave the service feeling loved. If their intentions are otherwise, they meet the same CARE (Counter Assault and Rapid Evacuation) Team and are served with the same resolve.

That's the uniqueness.

i agree with you to some level but i think you are over thinking this. Ushers can't play security guards, a few cameras will be great but they have to be looking outside, metal detector will also go a long way to make sure unwanted people dont step in.

[glocktogo]

Right. That addresses the communication barrier perfectly.

So, in reference to my original post, is that communication barrier enough reason to go to a "specialist" in church security? Would it not be just as prudent to consult with any other risk assessment professional/security trainer so long as the language is changed to fulfill the congregational/denominational/religious hierarchy need?

I can tell you with certainty that in my AOR religious entities can and do reach out to the local FBI/JTTF for security preparedness advice, and at least around here, they get it. The main Synagogue in my AOR regularly attends the Urban Area Security Initiative meetings as well. They request and receive security support and advice through this venue as well.

If the congregation is large enough, I don't think it's a bad idea to reach out to security professionals for advice. Whether they should spend money out of church coffers would depend on how large they are (IMO, mega-church yes, typical large church no) and how much free advice is available to them.

IF state law allows CCW in churches like they do around here, a lot of them will have a men's group that meets outside regular services on a variety of topics. A lot of them will wind up with sub-groups that work out who carries in church, establish their attendance prior to each service and strategically sit so they know where each other are and have good vantage points to intercede should an active threat present itself. Others will serve as ushers so as to have good vantage points. Working as a volunteer and being legally armed should preclude the need for a state security license. Some even have regular "range days" together and take defense courses as a group. In many cases, merely knowing who's who and having a plan in place is good enough.

If the church has a budget for physical security a good place to look for passive security features is CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design). Simply Google CPTED and you'll find tons of information. I'd also recommend the FEMA website for free training on the National Incident Management System. https://www.fema.gov/training-0

There's no magic bullet obviously, but once you start looking in the right places, you'll find all sorts of resources that don't cost a lot of money. Hope this helps!

[The_War_Wagon]

My Synagogue doesn't need to hire an exFBI agents that has book knowledge about how to set up security. They have me with 25 years boots on the ground fighting terrorist and a couple of other ex IDF infantry guys.
But they just want to talk about hiring a security company to secure us.

What could I do to entice you to come over to the Missouri Lutherans? :p

[echo5whiskey]

Churches dont need MI6 kinda security, all the hate and shooting at church are done by mindless people who have no tactical training, a couple guys with permit, long range shooting experience and experience in evacuating people and some little medical emergencies will do.

i agree with you to some level but i think you are over thinking this. Ushers can't play security guards, a few cameras will be great but they have to be looking outside, metal detector will also go a long way to make sure unwanted people dont step in.

I don't think anyone is advocating turning a sanctuary into Langley. The point is not to meet a threat with an individual possessing an equal amount of training. The point is to train above what the perceived threat is capable of, in order to more effectively neutralize the threat.

Why can't ushers "play" security guard? Do you have some sort of data that supports that statement, or is it just an opinion stated as fact?

[echo5whiskey]

I can tell you with certainty that in my AOR religious entities can and do reach out to the local FBI/JTTF for security preparedness advice, and at least around here, they get it. The main Synagogue in my AOR regularly attends the Urban Area Security Initiative meetings as well. They request and receive security support and advice through this venue as well.

If the congregation is large enough, I don't think it's a bad idea to reach out to security professionals for advice. Whether they should spend money out of church coffers would depend on how large they are (IMO, mega-church yes, typical large church no) and how much free advice is available to them.

IF state law allows CCW in churches like they do around here, a lot of them will have a men's group that meets outside regular services on a variety of topics. A lot of them will wind up with sub-groups that work out who carries in church, establish their attendance prior to each service and strategically sit so they know where each other are and have good vantage points to intercede should an active threat present itself. Others will serve as ushers so as to have good vantage points. Working as a volunteer and being legally armed should preclude the need for a state security license. Some even have regular "range days" together and take defense courses as a group. In many cases, merely knowing who's who and having a plan in place is good enough.

If the church has a budget for physical security a good place to look for passive security features is CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design). Simply Google CPTED and you'll find tons of information. I'd also recommend the FEMA website for free training on the National Incident Management System. https://www.fema.gov/training-0

There's no magic bullet obviously, but once you start looking in the right places, you'll find all sorts of resources that don't cost a lot of money. Hope this helps!

My point is not whether or not a church should seek advice and training. It is addressing the relevancy of church security "experts." I think LE would be a much better resource, and (aside from the above posted takeaways) I don't see how a standard security consultant would be any less useful; but that is my current opinion, and why I started this thread.

[yoni]

Ushers can be used as your early warning system, if you don't have enough members that can act as security.

[shotmeshotu]

I don't think anyone is advocating turning a sanctuary into Langley. The point is not to meet a threat with an individual possessing an equal amount of training. The point is to train above what the perceived threat is capable of, in order to more effectively neutralize the threat.

Why can't ushers "play" security guard? Do you have some sort of data that supports that statement, or is it just an opinion stated as fact?

Thanks for clearing that partner, i get you point and i really do appreciate your point of view, you see i grew up on the church and i did a lot of volunteer work, sometimes Ushering, or maybe working work with the cleaning team. usher are kinda security inside the church - always walking around and helping people settle in, trust me its not an easy work. but thats all inside the church. i am talking about intercept possible threats before they get into the church while usher help people evacuate the scene.

[echo5whiskey]

Thanks for clearing that partner, i get you point and i really do appreciate your point of view, you see i grew up on the church and i did a lot of volunteer work, sometimes Ushering, or maybe working work with the cleaning team. usher are kinda security inside the church - always walking around and helping people settle in, trust me its not an easy work. but thats all inside the church. i am talking about intercept possible threats before they get into the church while usher help people evacuate the scene.

Fair enough. One of the churches where I was a member had a rotating schedule for the men who volunteered to serve as ushers. There were always two on parking duty, while the others would act in the traditional roles. I understand, that they are not "ushering" while roving the lot, but the men on the inside can absolutely act as an additional layer of security.