Two for flinching

[nightchief]

I'm a flincher. I admit it. Admitting one has a problem is the first step toward correcting it.

It was apparent today shooting when pressing the trigger on an unexpected empty chamber (G17 with Pyramid trigger and G19 G5 with stock trigger) as the gun dropped about a half-inch at the muzzle.

How does one overcome anticipating the trigger break? Wwhat sort of practice or drills can I run to rid myself of this "condition"?

NC

[militarymoron]

i make my son dry fire on target interspersed with live rounds to help his anticipation. anytime he flinches, it's back to a dozen dry fires.

[GTF425]

I'm a flincher. I admit it. Admitting one has a problem is the first step toward correcting it.

It was apparent today shooting when pressing the trigger on an unexpected empty chamber (G17 with Pyramid trigger and G19 G5 with stock trigger) as the gun dropped about a half-inch at the muzzle.

How does one overcome anticipating the trigger break? Wwhat sort of practice or drills can I run to rid myself of this "condition"?

NC

Ball and dummy drills.

[Milgauss223]

I'm a flincher. I admit it. Admitting one has a problem is the first step toward correcting it.

It was apparent today shooting when pressing the trigger on an unexpected empty chamber (G17 with Pyramid trigger and G19 G5 with stock trigger) as the gun dropped about a half-inch at the muzzle.

How does one overcome anticipating the trigger break? Wwhat sort of practice or drills can I run to rid myself of this "condition"?

NC

I'm curious what is said here as well. I myself shoot high and left with every handgun I own, wether 5.7 or a G19. I never have had formal training but I like to think I shoot quite often.

[nightchief]

Ball and dummy drills.

Besides me being the dummy, what is a ball and dummy drill?

[GTF425]

Besides me being the dummy, what is a ball and dummy drill?

Standby, let me find a decent video.

No good ones that really explain it how I was taught. But basically, if you have a friend with you, have them load your magazine or do it one round at a time. They will either load it with a dummy round or a live one, and the intent is for you to not know. To add an element of accountability, you can work this to a goal of 10 live rounds fired on a target like a B-8 and add up for score, or even make it more difficult by working from the holster with a timer while shooting groups for score. Make them shoot as many dry fires with dummy rounds as necessary to reinforce good trigger control.

If you don't have a training partner, you can do the same by loading a stack of magazines randomly with ball and dummy rounds and working groups.

[DirectTo]

Ball and dummy will help you to recognize it and focus on the individual pulls. If I’m alone and need to randomize it I’ll grab a few mags, a handful of dummy rounds, and a box of ammo. Dump the ammo on to a clean surface, mix in the dummy rounds, and randomly load the magazines, some to capacity, some not. Shoot them slow to focus on trigger control, then shoot them fast with reloads in other drills to see how you do under pressure.

Here’s a great video from Paul Harrell that shows how it looks in practice, albeit with a revolver. Start at 3:08, or watch the whole series if you want:


https://youtu.be/auBxNXlVIMw

[MegademiC]

The only way I’ve found to really eliminate it is a lot of dry fire, like 5mins per day, and a lot of live fire. If I shoot at least once per week, 200rds or so, it seems to keep me used to the shooting enough I don’t flinch. Any time I take off for a few weeks, it comes back intermittently.

[RHINOWSO]

I never have had formal training but I like to think I shoot quite often.

(1) Get some good formal training. You shoot high and left, not the weapons.
(2) Anyone can shoot "quite often", but just putting rounds downrange won't make you a good, or even average shooter.

[hopetonbrown]

I don't like the ball and dummy drill, and neither does the Rogers shooting school.

I have found this to work well for people who have problems getting the bullet go where they want it to.

https://youtu.be/NxyTFzgWjhk

Seek competent instruction.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[26 Inf]

I don't like the ball and dummy drill, and neither does the Rogers shooting school.

I have found this to work well for people who have problems getting the bullet go where they want it to.

https://youtu.be/NxyTFzgWjhk

Seek competent instruction.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

When I was at Roger's, Bill Rogers suggested that the way to do ball and dummy drills is to load the mags in a pattern so the shooter knows where the dummy round is - live, dummy, live, dummy, and so on or maybe live, live, dummy, live, live, dummy, live, live.

Similar to the drill your posted from Sig.

For the OP, what I would do is spend a lot of time dry firing - but use several distinct methods. Pistol clear, no ammo or mags in room, safe backstop, no one else in proximity etc.

Specific to Glock or similar striker-fired pistol.

1) Take a seat. Basically, you are going to sit on a chair, hold the pistol, in a good shooting grip, muzzle pointed down, at floor, between your lega. Dry fire in this manner - finger out of trigger guard, acquire trigger, take slack/pre-travel out, stop. Finger out of trigger guard and repeat. Do this about a dozen times. Focus on a tight grip, as tight as you can w/o the gun shaking. You should hear no clicks, no should you have to reset the action. The goal is to ingrain in you the process of taking slack/pre-travel out of the trigger for the first shot.

After you've done this a dozen or so times, it is time to strand up. Double check no ammo and no mags (I have steel mags for dryfire).

2) From the compressed ready at a blank wall. Pistol in solid two hand grip, as you press out to full extension, at the point your barrel is level and aligned on target, move your finger into the trigger guard, find the trigger and take out the slack/pre-travel. This should occur as you reach full extension. Recover and repeat at least a dozen times. There should be no clicks and no need to reset the action.

Take a break. And then take a seat. Clear the room, weapon, mags, etc. if you left the area.

3) We are going to start with the trigger on the finger, slack/pre-travel out position. Grip tight, gun muzzle down between legs, close your eyes and focus on what the trigger is doing, how much movement there is until the striker snaps. Make sure you focus on stopping the press as soon as the break occurs. The press should be smooth and steady, the striker's snap should be a surprize. Reset the action and repeat until you know the feel.

4) Repeat the elements of drill #2 except the final stage of the trigger press should begin as you reach full extension. Do it slowly and deliberately. Reset the action and repeat. Focus on grip, and not pressing through the break. Once again the press should be smooth and steady, the striker's snap should be a surprise. Don't try to build speed yet.

You'll notice we have not done anything about resetting for the second shot. That is because, in my experience, beginning/improperly trained shooters almost always lunge through the first shot on the Glock. The first shot from the holster is the shot that stops the threat - it needs to be a hit.

If we've done our homework, we have already learned where the reset point is on the Glock, it is the same position we went to to remove the slack/pre-travel. And we have begun to train ourselves to not press/push on the dead trigger after the shot has broke. So now we are going to to work on going to reset.

5) Make sure everything is clear as before. Sit down. Shooting grip, muzzle down between legs. We are going to start from the slack/pre-travel out position, press through until the striker snaps, then stop, Cycle the action, then let the finger come out until the action resets -you should hear and feel the 'click.' Repeat the process. Close your eyes, focus on what the trigger feels like, as you press the striker's snap should be a surprise. Do this until you feel comfortable that the process is ingrained.

Now we are ready to dry fire on a target.

6) Repeat drill four with the same focuses, except instead of a blank wall focus on a target. (I like to use an enlarged copy of an ace of spades) The front sight should be sharp and clear, and not move as the striker snaps. After you are comfortable and achieving good results start presenting from the holster - remember the finger doesn't come onto the trigger until the bore of the pistol is indexed on the target. As I mentioned earlier, we are working on the most critical shot of the encounter - the first shot which should be the fight stopper, not a miss.

7) Repeat drill 5 except, focusing on the target. Same focuses.

As you build confidence in your abilities during dry-fire you can build speed. Don't ever get sloppy. Slow down and repeat the process until you regain solid form.

This process has worked to improve numerous struggling shooters performance during in-service courses I have given. Normally about 1 to 1.5 hours on the dry drills before moving to live fire.

[1_click_off]

When I was 14 my dad let me buy a Dan Wesson 44 mag, and a 7mm mag. Of course I load some 240gr hornady XTP’s one notch under max load and some 168gr HPBT at another stout load. The 7mm had a synthetic stock as well.

Needless to say, it ruined me and made me flinch no matter what I shot. From 22 to 9mm pistol and all rifle rounds.

I knew I was going to flinch and would just let the first round fly at the range to get the “big flinch” out of the way.

I finally started over by shooting only 22lr pistol and rifle. I eventually got my pre 44 7mm kid crackshot skills back. So I then moved up a caliber until I did not flinch firing it. Sort of just started over. Now I can shoot 22-10mm pistol and I kind of shoot 22 to 308 and skip over the stuff over 308 and jump right to the M99 in 50bmg without flinching.

It has been 20 years since I have fired the Dan Wesson, we have a love hate relationship. I love to hate it. Took me so long to break the flinch, I hate to fire it. The 7mm is long gone.

But that is how I cured my flinch. I had plenty of time to do it and trigger control was cheap when 22lr was 2-3cents a shot.

[OttoLoader]

Agree to shoot .22. At end of range session with magnum revolvers. I shoot about 50 rounds of .22 through my Ruger Mark III making good fundamentals form.
I shooting alot o .30-06 I finish with a Ruger 10/22.
Dry fire with snap caps slowly take up to breakpoint the slowly squeeze trigger keeping front sight on target.

[JC5188]

Snap caps. Til they look like this.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171213/980ed1fc509a6323a451b35769d83238.jpg

I use them loaded into magazines randomly, then shoot as normal.

[nightchief]

I want to thank everyone for their input. The ball and dummy drills as well as 26inf's instruction are helping. Still get some flinch when shooting fast, which tells me I need to slow down a bit, and keep working on shooting correctly, not speedily.
A defensive pistol class is also in in my near future and hopefully will get some good feedback from the instructor watching me shoot.

NC

[turnburglar]

Just dry fire practice.


Find a dot on the wall and practice a smooth presentation, sight alignment and then break the trigger. If your sights jump, adjust what ever needs fixing and do it until you break the trigger and sights stop moving. It's pretty simple really.

The way I like to describe it: a trigger is similar to a clutch on a car or bike. Knowing the proper way to finesse it is everything for accuracy.


EDIT: My father in law got me this game called "iTargetPro' that works with my iPhone and a include bore laser. Really fun when I can't make it to the range for practice and would probably help alot in your case. When you break the trigger the laser stays on for a half second so if you have poor technique you will see your laser draw an S instead of stay a tight dot.

[Firefly]

Oh boy I had some Rogers school flashbacks (excellent training but in the immortal words of RuPaul, you gonna WORK)

Honestly, I remember being forced to dryfire for almost no shit 8 hours with 15 minute breaks every hour. Same with breaking leather and drawing. 8 hours of just that.

Then there was dry fire with an empty gun while watching TV. You have an illuminated backdrop so you can see if your front sight is moving on you.

Then there was ungodly amounts of Dot Torture. Like, you almost wanna cry because you know you have to shoot.

"Oh Boy We get to shoot" very easily becomes

"Oh gaaawwwd, we have to shoot..."

Now I dont flinch or nothing. My brain has become callused. It's like "oh. yes. This again."

And you better not mess up on 50 yd days.

So just proper repetition until you go into total autopilot

[JC5188]

Oh boy I had some Rogers school flashbacks (excellent training but in the immortal words of RuPaul, you gonna WORK)

Honestly, I remember being forced to dryfire for almost no shit 8 hours with 15 minute breaks every hour. Same with breaking leather and drawing. 8 hours of just that.

Then there was dry fire with an empty gun while watching TV. You have an illuminated backdrop so you can see if your front sight is moving on you.

Then there was ungodly amounts of Dot Torture. Like, you almost wanna cry because you know you have to shoot.

"Oh Boy We get to shoot" very easily becomes

"Oh gaaawwwd, we have to shoot..."

Now I dont flinch or nothing. My brain has become callused. It's like "oh. yes. This again."

And you better not mess up on 50 yd days.

So just proper repetition until you go into total autopilot

+ 1000 on the dry-fire while watching TV.

A S&W shield will develop a nice callous on the right hand, palm side of the middle finger, FWIW...

[emoji846]

[SteveS]

I actually suck at shooting. I lack hand. eye cordination but it is fun. I dry fire a couple times a week and Jerry Miculec better watch out . When I go to live fire the world comes to an end and reality sets in that I really do suck.