View Full Version : BCM Prototype upper?
morbidbattlecry
12-02-17, 19:19
What is this we have here? You guys won't miss it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgO2UCTJ-Po
It’s that new upper that utilizes the charging handle to punch you in the nose. Gonna be the next hottest thing out.
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Yeah what the hell was that CH doing?
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9mm_shooter
12-02-17, 19:32
It’s that new upper that utilizes the charging handle to punch you in the nose. Gonna be the next hottest thing out.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkA prototype piston upper? Short stroke piston might be rubbing on the charging handle.
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morbidbattlecry
12-02-17, 19:45
He doesn't ever shoot the Prototype upper. It's just displayed on the table. He has what looks like a regular upper for the shooting parts.
Yeah what the hell was that CH doing?
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Per comments from LAV, "It was a prototype charging handle that we were tweaking when this was filmed - I saw it in the edited video but decided to leave it in to see if you guys would catch it"
So that would appear to answer that.
As far as the upper, there was another thread about a new BCM upper receiver that they brought out a few days/a week or so ago.
Defaultmp3
12-02-17, 19:55
In the comments section:
Good job !! You guys caught the Easter egg I left in the video !! It was a prototype charging handle that we were tweaking when this was filmed - I saw it in the edited video but decided to leave it in to see if you guys would catch it; well done !!
I wonder if the new upper has an altered cam pin path?
Here some links with Pics of the upper : Upper receiver looks to be reinforced in some areas along with the FA location moved forward for CH clearance. I think offset sights should fit, but it might be a little close. Hodge Defense has also had their reinforced upper receivers out for some time already, but it retains the traditional FA location. I imagine we will hear about any further details of the upper at SHOT.
https://instagram.com/p/Bbmt4zeFzWU/
https://instagram.com/p/BbhtwJWFAN_/
Reminds me of that time SIG was crowing about their 516 and showed some full auto shoots - of course the CH was coming fully unlocked and cycling after the first couple of shots
voiceofreason
12-03-17, 06:26
Thanks for sharing. He's got the Scalarworks on there as well.
Reminds me of that time SIG was crowing about their 516 and showed some full auto shoots - of course the CH was coming fully unlocked and cycling after the first couple of shots
What causes that?
What causes that?
Spring tension on the latch being overcome by the recoil force.
Any updates or additional info on this BCM Prototype upper? I'm interested in learning more about it, but can't find any relevant details besides a few instagram posts which don't show any details.
Any updates or additional info on this BCM Prototype upper? I'm interested in learning more about it, but can't find any relevant details besides a few instagram posts which don't show any details.
We might or might not hear additional info on this new upper receiver from the 2018 SHOT SHOW that starts on Jan 23rd. Others like Hodge Defense and VLTOR already have reinforced and beefed up upper receivers and 2A Armament , VLTOR, Sig Sauer and I know of a few others that have already done the FA relocation trip.
https://2a-arms.com/collections/lightweight-receivers/products/aethon-upper-receiver
mebiuspower
01-03-18, 13:36
An evolution to the Vltor MUR upper receiver.
Press Check
01-27-18, 17:06
Did these debut at SHOT?
So, apparently it still exists in the latest Vickers video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=246DjOwv91g
Pretty clear video showing the details.
I'm disappointed they haven't announced it yet because I want one...
I'm disappointed they haven't announced it yet because I want one...
Just relax and kick back, before you know it everyone will have them.
methical20
03-11-18, 00:40
Stick,
Any idea if there will be new lower forgings as well? Ambi?
Stick,
Any idea if there will be new lower forgings as well? Ambi?
I can make vague generic comments, and say there are a lot of interesting things coming.
I can make vague generic comments, and say there are a lot of interesting things coming.
Can you give us eta of when we get to know more?
If anyone from BCM is reading this:
- I've been waiting for this upper for the last 5 months now...
- I'm also still waiting for the 14.5" or 16" (regular profile barrel) BFH MCMR upper with the FSP for a year now
It would be great if BCM would introduce both together. At this point I'm questioning if I should wait any longer...
vicious_cb
04-15-18, 14:59
I've been calling out the lightweight crowd ever since they started going full retard and skeletonizing the area behind the barrel extension compromising the failure cascade. Good thing kabooms are so rare I haven't heard of someone being seriously injured from running these idiotic skeletonized receivers. Good to know BCM is going in the opposite direction.
Well here’s your answer.
https://youtu.be/yG2gAmkvnL4
I've been calling out the lightweight crowd ever since they started going full retard and skeletonizing the area behind the barrel extension compromising the failure cascade. Good thing kabooms are so rare I haven't heard of someone being seriously injured from running these idiotic skeletonized receivers. Good to know BCM is going in the opposite direction.
Just playing devils advocate, wouldn't the skelotonizing provide relief cuts for the pressure blast to go instead of just out the mag well?
With that theory of pressure drop off, the cut outs should send the gasses out, instead of causing a critical fracture in the metals.
Than again, I suppose the dust cover is open too when they happen, so, who knows.
vicious_cb
04-27-18, 14:36
Just playing devils advocate, wouldn't the skelotonizing provide relief cuts for the pressure blast to go instead of just out the mag well?
With that theory of pressure drop off, the cut outs should send the gasses out, instead of causing a critical fracture in the metals.
Than again, I suppose the dust cover is open too when they happen, so, who knows.
Im not talking about cutting holes in the receiver. A more visual analogy.
Doing this:
https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/XBAD556LWUR1.jpg
Prefragments your upper receiver in the event of a kaboom similar in concept to this:
https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/1/13313/1082148-300px_mk2_grenade_dod.jpg
Im not talking about cutting holes in the receiver. A more visual analogy.
Doing this:
https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/XBAD556LWUR1.jpg
Prefragments your upper receiver in the event of a kaboom similar in concept to this:
https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/1/13313/1082148-300px_mk2_grenade_dod.jpg
Awh, yeah.
Great visual comparison too. That sure can look ominous with those two compared.
Thanks for clarifying, my point is certainly invalid with those receivers.
Im not talking about cutting holes in the receiver. A more visual analogy.
Doing this:
https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/XBAD556LWUR1.jpg
Prefragments your upper receiver in the event of a kaboom similar in concept to this:
https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/1/13313/1082148-300px_mk2_grenade_dod.jpg
Two different concepts. The raised ribs of the upper stiffen and strengthen the structure.
The cuts in the grenade are there to create fracture points.
You see ribs, i see pockets. Material removed, even to create ribs, doesn't make a part stronger. That receiver may be stronger than a receiver of equal mass, but uniformly reduced diameter, but i doubt any serious thought has gone into its design other than it looks cool.
You see ribs, i see pockets. Material removed, even to create ribs, doesn't make a part stronger. That receiver may be stronger than a receiver of equal mass, but uniformly reduced diameter, but i doubt any serious thought has gone into its design other than it looks cool.
If the pockets were connected like the grenade, you'd have a point. But they aren't. The ribs are the continuous structure and will stop the tearing from going past the ribs to the next pocket. The ribs prevent fragmenting. The cuts in the grenade are continuous and promote fragmenting. The two designs are opposites.
Mrgunsngear
04-28-18, 08:05
Well here’s your answer.
https://youtu.be/yG2gAmkvnL4
Embed:
https://youtu.be/yG2gAmkvnL4
beschatten
04-28-18, 17:16
I see the merits of this upper, but why play the wait game? The VLTOR MUR has been doin' this for years.
I see the merits of this upper, but why play the wait game? The VLTOR MUR has been doin' this for years.
Paying nearly $200 per upper gets kinda old, at least it did for me. Of course you can find MURs on sale, but then you're still playing the waiting game. If this is competitively priced with standard forged uppers it's a better buy.
Has this prototype upper project been cancelled by BCM? Should we still expect to see it anytime soon?
From the Larry Vickers BCM training carbine video, (4:46) I thought it looked more like a Noveske Gen III upper, than the VLTOR MUR. the forward assist, brass deflector "triangle" is part of the forging (Noveske), not pinned on (VLTOR). similar style, not an exact match. just my 2 cents.
Has this prototype upper project been cancelled by BCM? Should we still expect to see it anytime soon?
BCM typically prototypes stuff for a very long time before it hits the commercial market. I'm sure its still coming.
Has this prototype upper project been cancelled by BCM? Should we still expect to see it anytime soon?
I have BCM items unseen by the internet from way before this video and info became public. I would not confuse elapsed time with closure of a project.
I was just wondering because I know that companies often play with a prototype projects or even a pre-production variants which often never reach the market for various reasons.
I'm at the point where I'd like to buy a stripped upper and open to options other than milspec. I would have bought this upper just to try out even back when it was first noticed, but have been waiting (im)patiently for it to hit the market.
I don't mind being an early adopter/tester if the price and feature set are compelling and company did their part during the testing phase.
I was just wondering because I know that companies often play with a prototype projects or even a pre-production variants which often never reach the market for various reasons.
All the time, but probably not for the reasons you think. A wonderful example would be a certain mfgs pint glass that I've been drinking out of for the last 10 years or so. It will never come to market.
Press Check
08-14-18, 17:36
Bump...
I hope Paul releases these for sale real soon. I could use two or three of them asap
Ok so what does this Upper do demonstrably that a standard Upper does not?
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IMHO, this upper should improve accuracy and bolt life to some degree. Also, the relocated FA position should also make right side FA manipulation a little easier. Nothing is so good it cannot be made better, even if it maybe somewhat incremental. For example, the trigger and the accuracy of the Gen 5 Glocks compared to the earlier generations. Another example is, BCM tightening up the ID spec of the upper for the barrel extension to enhance accuracy. Another example would be the soon to be released Surefire optimized bolt carrier, that will increase an AR’s reliability and bolt life. Also, look at KAC and their many innovations that make a better AR15. In the arms race nothing stays the same, things are improved upon and at some point replaced. Then again, some people are perfectly content driving their model T.
Ok so what does this Upper do demonstrably that a standard Upper does not?
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Biggest thing I would think of is making that ambi charging handle easier to use. If you use the right side of those charging handles the forward assist kinda gets in the way of you racking the handle. Looks to be far enough forward that if you tried using that side of the charging handle on both I think one would see the difference right away.
Might help with some sling mounts getting in the way as well(of the forward assist) but I don't know if that would really be noticeable because you don't really ever use the f/a. As far as the claim its stronger it very well might be. I don't know if that is really something that was needed but if its not adding weight I don't see the problem.
All you guys talking about the forward assist need to jump on that Forward Controls Design LDFA train if you haven’t already.
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methical20
09-21-18, 19:06
Defoor has a new video up with this upper.
Think we will see a BCM forged, ambi lower released with this?
Defoor has a new video up with this upper.
Think we will see a BCM forged, ambi lower released with this?
Doubt it.
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Press Check
09-21-18, 23:36
Defoor has a new video up with this upper.
Think we will see a BCM forged, ambi lower released with this?
Link?
will Geissele rails or other rails with anti rotation tabs fit on this upper? And does it have the tight fit barrel extension that the normal BCM uppers have?
will Geissele rails or other rails with anti rotation tabs fit on this upper? And does it have the tight fit barrel extension that the normal BCM uppers have?
Dude. Like six people have these uppers.
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TexasAggie2005
09-22-18, 09:14
Dude. Like six people have these uppers.
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And it's a prototype. Doesn't even mean it's going to be brought to market.
The hype on these is insane. If BCM brings these to market, they'll sell truckloads to people who have never actually worn out or broken an upper receiver. But they'll get to "upgrade"...
Moose-Knuckle
09-23-18, 13:23
The hype on these is insane. If BCM brings these to market, they'll sell truckloads to people who have never actually worn out or broken an upper receiver. But they'll get to "upgrade"...
I find the same to be true no matter who the manufacturer or what their latest greatest widget is.
But it keeps the economy going so I can't complain to much and every once in awhile a true innovation comes along.
Press Check
09-23-18, 19:06
This is an upper receiver, and since they haven't exactly reinvented the wheel, how much testing needs to be done between all the "BCM Gunfighters" that are leaking the prototype to the public? Rhetorical question.
It’s not just a new shape, KD said there are vents for the gas. That means it does offer more capability and probably needs more testing.
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It’s not just a new shape, KD said there are vents for the gas. That means it does offer more capability and probably needs more testing.
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That's not something I had heard, but that does peak my curiosity.
Honest question; I know a lot of peope don't see the need in reinforced upper receivers, but isn't one of the biggest advantages of these reinforced upper receivers to prevent injury in case of a catastrophic failure?
I could see using something like this or a VLTOR MUR on a heavy use training rifle and/or if you plan on running non quality ammo, whether it be factory ammo or reloaded, etc.. due to the increased chance of an ammo related catastrophic failure.
That's not something I had heard, but that does peak my curiosity.
Honest question; I know a lot of peope don't see the need in reinforced upper receivers, but isn't one of the biggest advantages of these reinforced upper receivers to prevent injury in case of a catastrophic failure?
I could see using something like this or a VLTOR MUR on a heavy use training rifle and/or if you plan on running non quality ammo, whether it be factory ammo or reloaded, etc.. due to the increased chance of an ammo related catastrophic failure.
There were at least a few members who stated they liked the MUR for this reason a few years ago, IIRC. I think IG posted photos of a kaboom in a MUR and mentioned that it was pretty well contained.
^That's most of the reason I like the MUR.
This is an upper receiver, and since they haven't exactly reinvented the wheel, how much testing needs to be done between all the "BCM Gunfighters" that are leaking the prototype to the public? Rhetorical question.
Please explain your version of rhetorical in regards to your comments. It certainly seems like you are just trying to be catty, but I'm game for comments that aren't simply passive aggressive from people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Fill us in.
^That's most of the reason I like the MUR.
Preacher,
There are two other reasons to enjoy the MUR. One is dimensional consistency. The second is appreciably better flex testing, something which many uppers can not lay claim to.
Press Check
09-23-18, 21:14
Please explain your version of rhetorical in regards to your comments. It certainly seems like you are just trying to be catty, but I'm game for comments that aren't simply passive aggressive from people who have no idea what they are talking about.
Fill us in.
How did I know my commentary would draw a response from the self-appointed BCM spokesman? Another rhetorical question...
Was that passive-aggressive as well?
MorphCross
09-23-18, 21:27
This is why both my previous and the current build I am working on have MURs.
Well, that and the fact that the BCM prototype isn't available yet to us plebs.
The second is appreciably better flex testing, something which many uppers can not lay claim to.
How did I know my commentary would draw a response from the self-appointed BCM spokesman? Another rhetorical question...
Was that passive-aggressive as well?
I'm not sure you actually understand the words you use. No need to go look them up to explain yourself, you are obviously doing nothing but trolling.
The problem is that you have a low knowledge base, in, at a minimum, the area in which we are conversing. You bitch about the receiver being nothing special, you bitch about the people using the components, you bitch about BCM, and then when called out on it you bitch about me.
In short, that makes you one who bitches quite often and has nothing of substance to give or even complain about. If your bitching had technical merit, people may be interested, but instead you come across as a someone with an axe to grind for unknown reasons. Whether you are a paid shill, or just someone trying to hard and falling flat, your posting is simply sad and lacking even in imagination. Why not square yourself away and come back as a productive member of the board?
To directly answer your question, partially, but primarily pathetic and demeaning to yourself.
And it's a prototype. Doesn't even mean it's going to be brought to market.
The hype on these is insane. If BCM brings these to market, they'll sell truckloads to people who have never actually worn out or broken an upper receiver. But they'll get to "upgrade"...
They are prototypes, but someone still wrote the code to pop those puppies out, so the interest from the manufacturer is obviously real. However, I haven't seen a crazy amount of hype. We have one person who is attacking it for no reason, and a few other people who have expressed interest. I don't know about the selling truckloads part, though I confess I don't have one on hand either to give an accurate gauge. The people who have used them in the classes aren't saying much of anything, and we have only seen a few posts about it.
If the receiver can lay claim to structural rigidity increase, and therefore delve into the mystical black arts of those who chase holes for accuracy, I think we will see a push. If we see gas diversion when used with a can, we will see a push. If we see a cool looking upper which just looks unique, the push will still be there (I agree with you), but certainly not to the same levels.
ETA- I resisted the BCM GF CH for a long time, and though to myself it couldn't be much of an actual "game changer" as it was just a "latch". Now I have them on most of my URGs. Something like this could very well be much more than we think. EK has a crazy mind....
This is why both my previous and the current build I am working on have MURs.
Well, that and the fact that the BCM prototype isn't available yet to us plebs.
Regardless of who makes what, I still think the Vltor MUR is the standard in the world of upgraded upper receivers. There are lots of receivers which look great, but Vltor remains the one to beat.
PS- If it makes you feel any better, both of my hands are empty as well.
Press Check
09-23-18, 22:50
I'm not sure you actually understand the words you use. No need to go look them up to explain yourself, you are obviously doing nothing but trolling.
The problem is that you have a low knowledge base, in, at a minimum, the area in which we are conversing. You bitch about the receiver being nothing special, you bitch about the people using the components, you bitch about BCM, and then when called out on it you bitch about me.
In short, that makes you one who bitches quite often and has nothing of substance to give or even complain about. If your bitching had technical merit, people may be interested, but instead you come across as a someone with an axe to grind for unknown reasons. Whether you are a paid shill, or just someone trying to hard and falling flat, your posting is simply sad and lacking even in imagination. Why not square yourself away and come back as a productive member of the board?
To directly answer your question, partially, but primarily pathetic and demeaning to yourself.
Yep, I registered in 2014, and waited all this time for the perfect opportunity to simultaneously troll, bitch, grind an axe, and cash in on being a shill, and you just ruined it. Thanks a lot, Stick.
You might be right about my knowledge-base regarding prototypes and why this prototype in particular is taking so long to come to market, but then again, I don't schmooze with manufacturers, or shoot more photos or my mouth off more than I do bullets.
There's catty for ya, Stick, but listen, if I had a problem with BCM, I'd have not a single problem expressing that. After all, according to you, not only do I bitch, but do it quite often. Where your long-winded, emotional response came from is completely beyond me.
I will return to my corner to get myself squared away, LOL.
Yep, I registered in 2014, and waited all this time for the perfect opportunity to simultaneously troll, bitch, grind an axe, and cash in on being a shill, and you just ruined it. Thanks a lot, Stick.
You might be right about my knowledge-base regarding prototypes and why this prototype in particular is taking so long to come to market, but then again, I don't schmooze with manufacturers, or shoot more photos or my mouth off more than I do bullets.
There's catty for ya, Stick, but listen, if I had a problem with BCM, I'd have not a single problem expressing that. After all, according to you, not only do I bitch, but do it quite often. Where your long-winded, emotional response came from is completely beyond me.
I will return to my corner to get myself squared away, LOL.
Chill your shit, nobody cares.
Preacher,
There are two other reasons to enjoy the MUR. One is dimensional consistency. The second is appreciably better flex testing, something which many uppers can not lay claim to.
Understood. Those advantages are likewise appealing to me, but I'm not sure I shoot well enough to completely appreciate the structural differences, even though they were the original draw for me. I just know that when I consider a build, I usually go the extra mile and grab a MUR, if for nothing else the potentially added safety factor. I've never regretted building with the MUR, and I feel like it's a bit of a gold standard for my builds.
If BCM can bring out an equal or better product in terms of where the MUR shines, I'll be happy to consider it for new builds. I won't be taking anything apart to upgrade, though. I do have BCM4 upper receivers in some builds and I'm not unhappy with them.
Is receiver flex really that much of an issue? Is there any quantifiable evidence that shows how much accuracy is changed with different receivers? Also is the tighter fit of BCM receivers beneficial to accuracy by any quantifiable amount? When I look at products that say this is better than x product, numbers and testing is what I want to see.
Wonder if these will be standard across the lineup and wondering if a price increase will happen.
Hoping these will be a selling point over the competition instead of price increase type of item.
Using the search feature and reading past information regarding the MUR, some of your questions will be answered.
Is receiver flex really that much of an issue? Is there any quantifiable evidence that shows how much accuracy is changed with different receivers? Also is the tighter fit of BCM receivers beneficial to accuracy by any quantifiable amount? When I look at products that say this is better than x product, numbers and testing is what I want to see.
My upper blew up a few years back. It was a MUR and I was using an LMT E-Carrier. IMO the damage was limited due to those two factors. Most of the MUR damage came from prying the upper open to get it disassembled.
There were at least a few members who stated they liked the MUR for this reason a few years ago, IIRC. I think IG posted photos of a kaboom in a MUR and mentioned that it was pretty well contained.
Is receiver flex really that much of an issue? Is there any quantifiable evidence that shows how much accuracy is changed with different receivers? Also is the tighter fit of BCM receivers beneficial to accuracy by any quantifiable amount? When I look at products that say this is better than x product, numbers and testing is what I want to see.
If you check out the work from a few years back of Kino Davis, you will find a lot of info on flex testing and the results. IIRC, there were some companies who really freaked out when they saw the results and made threats, and got him banned from another board. Its been a few years, so please forgive me if the facts are slightly different, but that should be the gist of it.
Furbyballer
09-25-18, 06:48
Shot with Kyle this weekend and got to see this upper up close. Changes seem well thought out and it worked just fine haha. (earned a hat too haha)
ffhounddog
09-25-18, 07:10
Do we even know when these will be available? I need a upper for a Barrel and my URX and my local shop has BCM uppers in stock. I just wanted to know if this will be available to order or use because like always lately I am not waiting...
Do we even know when these will be available? I need a upper for a Barrel and my URX and my local shop has BCM uppers in stock. I just wanted to know if this will be available to order or use because like always lately I am not waiting...
I have heard nothing about even rough ETAs with this project. Not that I claim to be all knowing by an stretch, but I figure it gives you a little info instead of no info.
If it makes you feel any better, UPS just dropped off a 9mm, 3 5.56, 1 300BLK, and 2 308 barrels. I don't figure any of them will be wearing the BCM upper in their first evolution.
The new BCM MK2 upper receiver should be available in the first or second quarter of 2019. That is from the horses mouth, BCM owner P.B. , at the 10:10 point in the Vid, link below. IMHO, it will be the best mil-spec forged upper receiver money can buy. I believe a more rigid upper can not only help enhance accuracy some, but can also help to extend bolt life to some degree. I would have prefered If they would have omitted the bright white star and BCM lettering off of it, or at least put it on in a much more subdued way, but I can deal with it if I have to. I am in for four of them asap. Also, nothing but respect for BCM. They keep prospering while keeping moral standards, like not doing business with states that are against the 2nd Ammendment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHc5gfl1NZ8&t=36s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHc5gfl1NZ8&t=36s
I just watched that video, and a few things stood out to me. This receiver will be out in ‘19, Paul is passionate about what he does, and LAV is looking very healthy.
I loved that LAV asked Paul about a BCM .308. Paul didn’t say “No”, so that tells me there is a chance.
MorphCross
12-06-18, 21:02
I just watched that video, and a few things stood out to me. This receiver will be out in ‘19, Paul is passionate about what he does, and LAV is looking very healthy.
I loved that LAV asked Paul about a BCM .308. Paul didn’t say “No”, so that tells me there is a chance.
What stood out to me from the video is the number of hands checking specific components using purpose designed gauges.
...That and the news about their modified proportion upper receiver. Presuming BCM sticks with their precision bored barrel extension opening this upper in conjunction with a well made constant taper barrel, a sturdy barrel nut interface, and something like the FCD SBCG w/O.C.K.S. makes a compelling case for an excellent "hard-use-stack-the-deck-in-my-favor" build. If I wasn't already well on my way with my own "autism level of attention to detail" build I would be all over it.
Yeah, I'm sure I'll be buying a new complete upper from BCM with a 14.5" barrel when that thing comes out.
My hard use ARs are both BCM complete uppers. Nothing but great with them.
thopkins22
12-07-18, 10:28
I loved that LAV asked Paul about a BCM .308. Paul didn’t say “No”, so that tells me there is a chance.
The world has wanted it for years. I reckon the problem is figuring out what the actual standard should look like, and then producing it in such a way that they undercut not only KAC but LMT too. Right in the pocket with DD.
The world has wanted it for years. I reckon the problem is figuring out what the actual standard should look like, and then producing it in such a way that they undercut not only KAC but LMT too. Right in the pocket with DD.
Yes, it sounds like they have done some significant prep, maybe even prototypes since he seems to allude to looking at the whole weapon system, not just wash-rinse-repeat AR10 clones.
Beyond that I'm sure it just a business decision - you can't just make cool stuff if the investment isn't going to pay off in $$$.
I’d have to wonder how much of the .308 market will be around in five to eight years with some of the newer calibers making such an impact. It won’t go away for a long time, but doesn’t it seem like .308 is dying off? At least in circles that would use a BCM variant?
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thopkins22
12-07-18, 15:13
I’d have to wonder how much of the .308 market will be around in five to eight years with some of the newer calibers making such an impact. It won’t go away for a long time, but doesn’t it seem like .308 is dying off? At least in circles that would use a BCM variant?
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I don’t think so. For a bolt gun? Definitely. People that want to put the kapow on things from 0-600 out of a semi though?
I don’t think so. For a bolt gun? Definitely. People that want to put the kapow on things from 0-600 out of a semi though?
Maybe it’s just me since I’m not already into the caliber, so I’d much rather have one of each that fire the same round. It might as well be a better one than .308 if it’s fairly available and around the same price.
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Cool video. I'd love to help test any big bore projects in the long range shooting realm. Can you imagine a BCM AR-10 type gun??? :cool:
Like it or not, 308 is a very common caliber, both in and out of the military. Lots of ammo already bought and lots of milsurp still out there waiting to be sold.
Sure some of the high speed types are going to other things like 6.5 and others, but military 308s will still be around for a long time.
Wait until we get back into a jungle / thick vegetation conflict, where visibility is 0-150m instead of in the barren desert where you can see several miles in every direction. Not saying that is the 308s games but just saying that we have been fighting in a certain AO (mainly) where long distance is valued. In a couple years we could be back to a closer fight.
The only real constant is change.
thopkins22
12-07-18, 15:58
Yes, it sounds like they have done some significant prep, maybe even prototypes....
Exactly. He didn’t say “it’s coming.” But he definitely said that it’s coming.
MeanCarbine
12-07-18, 17:41
Mark II upper? Is this a solution looking for a problem?
Mark II upper? Is this a solution looking for a problem?
Just because you’re not fixing a major flaw, does not mean something can’t be improved.
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I think it it all about what BCM is all about. They make battle rifles, and throughout history, the battle rifle has been chambered in .308 (7.62). I have no issue with my LMT weapons (5.56 & 7.62) except for what they weigh, but I thoroughly love them just as my BCM stuff. If anyone can make a .308 battle rifle that works well and doesn’t weigh a metric stit-ton, I know that BCM can and will.
Just because you’re not fixing a major flaw, does not mean something can’t be improved.
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Mark II upper? Is this a solution looking for a problem?
I agree. The flat top AR upper flexes a lot vs the original design with an integral carry handle.
I agree with and understand the changes, except for keeping the forward assist.
thopkins22
12-09-18, 21:26
I agree with and understand the changes, except for keeping the forward assist.
There are a lot of reputable instructors who advocate for the forward assist following a press check, and the press check over dropping the mag to check which round is on top. I don’t think you really lose any customers by keeping it vs. who you lose without it.
Doesn't mean it should be there.
Stoner and Sullivan were 100% against the forward assist being introduced and rightfully so. The bolt carrier was already designed with a forward assist, the divot on the side of the carrier in the ejection port.
Military doctrine does not = small arms design/weapons mechanics.
FA vs non-FA is like 9MM vs 45.
The self-licking ice cream cone of arguments, even when both options are readily available for people to choose what they want.
I'm an FA fan. I'm never going to think there is a round in the chamber until I see one, and loading slowly you can't guarantee the weapon is in battery.
Old / long dead no longer speak and their opinions are frozen in time.
MorphCross
12-10-18, 20:05
Another plus of the MUR...If you like your FA you can keep your FA. If not you have the option of case deflector only. If the price is right on the Mark two upper with a FA it is a great lower cost option against the MUR-1S/1A.
Speaking of such, does anyone have an idea on the cost of the BCM Mark 2 upper receiver?
Speaking of such, does anyone have an idea on the cost of the BCM Mark 2 upper receiver?
One would think, if a design were improved while keeping all the original design features, they would simply cease selling the original design and sell their improved version for just slightly more to cover R&D. I would guess instead that they sell these for around $150-180.
One would think, if a design were improved while keeping all the original design features, they would simply cease selling the original design and sell their improved version for just slightly more to cover R&D. I would guess instead that they sell these for around $150-180.
There will always be someone who wants the original though. Plenty of people still like gov’t profile barrels.
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Outlander Systems
07-28-19, 08:03
Any news on this?
Owner Paul B said it would be available in the first or second quarter of this year. So at this point, it is a month overdue.
So at this point, it is a month overdue.
Which is still 2-3 months early, if you consider typical firearms industry / manufacturing releases. ;)
From BCM today:
Thank you for contacting us. Yes, we do anticipate offering these sometime in the 3rd or 4th quarter of this year.
But as usual, don’t hold your breath.
So from a cure speculative point of view is the thought these will a less costly option to a MUR?
Demo BCM are ~$60, regular $119, will this replace the $119 or be $150-$200?
I'm itching to build something in prep for cooler weather outdoors shooting and will need an upper. Was going to pick up a MUR (straight up or branded) and would love a less costly option to put more money into ammo/training.
So from a cure speculative point of view is the thought these will a less costly option to a MUR?
Demo BCM are ~$60, regular $119, will this replace the $119 or be $150-$200?
I'm itching to build something in prep for cooler weather outdoors shooting and will need an upper. Was going to pick up a MUR (straight up or branded) and would love a less costly option to put more money into ammo/training.
No way do I see these being less costly than a traditional upper. Think of how many forged uppers are created, and sold to various manufacturers for various levels of machining. I don't see any way BCM could or would even try to play the cheap game.
Any interesting question would be if BCM would be willing, or even interested in licensing or selling the basic forging to other companies....
hopefully it's cheaper than the Noveske Gen 3 Chainsaw upper receiver when it's on sale, $220. that one also has the reinforced snout, and Forward Assist, brass deflector.
No way do I see these being less costly than a traditional upper. Think of how many forged uppers are created, and sold to various manufacturers for various levels of machining. I don't see any way BCM could or would even try to play the cheap game.
Any interesting question would be if BCM would be willing, or even interested in licensing or selling the basic forging to other companies....
Thanks, I figured the same, but don't really "know" the players. Grabbing my normal boring MUR.
From BCM today:
Thank you for contacting us. Yes, we do anticipate offering these sometime in the 3rd or 4th quarter of this year.
But as usual, don’t hold your breath.
My take is this, BCM has a large and varied amount of URGs & complete weapons they sell. While it is possible they may do one large launch with everything being in stock and ready to go, I would think they would roll the new uppers in gradually starting with their more popular offerings.
I'll happily point out that I have not asked about the release date or even a rough time frame, and this is not me commenting for BCM.
EzGoingKev
09-22-19, 12:24
Any updates on the release of these new upper receivers?
mebiuspower
09-22-19, 17:39
I was told complete upper will be available first.
They're not in a huge hurry to release new products since the factory is quite busy as it is.
Has it been determined what this brings to the table yet?
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mebiuspower
09-22-19, 20:23
Has it been determined what this brings to the table yet?
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Reinforced to prevent receiver flex and forward assist moved forward to prevent snag when using ambi charging handle.
From Bravo Company today:
Posted: Today 11:34:06 AM EDT
In production now. Should be released before years end.
Thanks!!
More info coming soon.
Waiting a long time for this. I was going to go with a Vltor, but really wanted to wait. Maybe an early (most likely late) Christmas gift for myself....
This may be the top item on my Christmas list, should they be available before years end.
Really looking forward to seeing this offered separately for spare uppers.
Walker_Texasranger
11-05-19, 20:23
I’ve read through a lot of this thread and I don’t get what this upper is. So what is it?
I’ve read through a lot of this thread and I don’t get what this upper is. So what is it?
The first thing you might notice is that the forward assist is moved forward - this especially helps lefties run the changing handle.
The next thing is that they have beefed up the left forward side of the upper, nominally opposite the ejection port. This is reportedly to minimize the flex in the upper because of the ejection port.
I'm not sure how much that flex actually impacts practical accuracy. I'm ssuthere are shooters and rifles that might benefit, I have enough MOA rifles that I don't see much utility in replacing existing receivers.
Hopefully, once they get going with them, I'll be able to buy blems for new builds, and will happily do so.
ETA: how does sure there turn into: ssuthere?
The first thing you might notice is that the forward assist is moved forward - this especially helps lefties run the changing handle.
The next thing is that they have beefed up the left forward side of the upper, nominally opposite the ejection port. This is reportedly to minimize the flex in the upper because of the ejection port.
I'm not sure how much that flex actually impacts practical accuracy. I'm ssuthere are shooters and rifles that might benefit, I have enough MOA rifles that I don't see much utility in replacing existing receivers.
Hopefully, once they get going with them, I'll be able to buy blems for new builds, and will happily do so.
ETA: how does sure there turn into: ssuthere?
Isn't the extra material supposed to also help in case of a kaboom too?
Theoretically, I believe a more rigid upper receiver should both enhance accuracy and extend bolt life to some degree. To what degree that is, all things being equal, I don’t know. Added protection in case of a kaboom would is a good thing. Moving the FA location forward some is probably also a good thing. I believe when they went to the flat top receivers they lost some of the rigidity they had with the intregal carry handle receivers. I doubt BCM would have went to all the trouble and expense, if these receivers didn’t provide significant enough benefits over the standard receivers.
Isn't the extra material supposed to also help in case of a kaboom too?
If you really what to help in the case of an over pressure event, the best thing is to drill a hole somewhere to vent to pressure off, rather that attempt to contain it. And the hole should be somewhere the directs the gas away from the shooter.
If you really what to help in the case of an over pressure event, the best thing is to drill a hole somewhere to vent to pressure off, rather that attempt to contain it. And the hole should be somewhere the directs the gas away from the shooter.
The magazine well and ejection port, to a degree, act as such. Wouldn't a more rigid upper receiver help?
IKnowNotEverything
11-06-19, 16:19
I believe the Vltor MUR is the best receiver currently in production, though they have some quirks. I seem to remember Iraqgunz had a kaboom and had nothing but praise for how well it contained everything.
This looks like a nice improvement over traditional units, and would allow offset irons and the LMT ambi lower to function correctly while having a similar effect on rigidity. +1 for innovation. I plan to use one on an upcoming precision build.
If they go slightly undersized on the barrel extension as on their BCM4 upper receivers, I can see myself becoming a bit more interested.
[QUOTE=taekwondopreacher;2783807]If they go slightly undersized on the barrel extension as on their BCM4 upper receivers, I can see myself becoming a bit more interested.[/QUOTE
I have absolutely no reason to think they won’t. I am in for three of them as soon as they are available.
Robb Jensen
11-06-19, 20:21
They’re pretty nice I’m using one on my 2gun rifle.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/v408/gotm4/4/97ed2be6-d718-4941-97d2-de459d8c49b0-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/gotm4/p/97ed2be6-d718-4941-97d2-de459d8c49b0)https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/v408/gotm4/4/1e6e5635-07d9-4373-b5ed-5895404a186f-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/gotm4/p/1e6e5635-07d9-4373-b5ed-5895404a186f)
jerrysimons
11-07-19, 01:20
5952459524
I believe the Vltor MUR is the best receiver currently in production, though they have some quirks. I seem to remember Iraqgunz had a kaboom and had nothing but praise for how well it contained everything.
This looks like a nice improvement over traditional units, and would allow offset irons and the LMT ambi lower to function correctly while having a similar effect on rigidity. +1 for innovation. I plan to use one on an upcoming precision build.
The pics of the forward assist I have seen one these pre production versions would not be compatible with LMT MARS-L or LWRC IC ambi lowers. The forward assist housing looks to interfere with the right side paddle.
5952459524
The pics of the forward assist I have seen one these pre production versions would not be compatible with LMT MARS-L or LWRC IC ambi lowers. The forward assist housing looks to interfere with the right side paddle.
This is what I’m waiting to find out for sure...
They’re pretty nice I’m using one on my 2gun rifle.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/v408/gotm4/4/97ed2be6-d718-4941-97d2-de459d8c49b0-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/gotm4/p/97ed2be6-d718-4941-97d2-de459d8c49b0)https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/v408/gotm4/4/1e6e5635-07d9-4373-b5ed-5895404a186f-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/gotm4/p/1e6e5635-07d9-4373-b5ed-5895404a186f)
Rob thanks for sharing photos.
Is there a vent of some sort for suppressor blow back built into that upper? If so how does it work..? KD4 mentioned it a year or two ago but curious if it made its way into final production.
jackblack73
11-07-19, 16:58
They’re pretty nice I’m using one on my 2gun rifle.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/v408/gotm4/4/97ed2be6-d718-4941-97d2-de459d8c49b0-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/gotm4/p/97ed2be6-d718-4941-97d2-de459d8c49b0)https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/v408/gotm4/4/1e6e5635-07d9-4373-b5ed-5895404a186f-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/gotm4/p/1e6e5635-07d9-4373-b5ed-5895404a186f)
What do you have as your mag catch? It looks to accomplish the same goal as a Redi-Catch but is cleaner looking.
Robb Jensen
11-08-19, 05:36
Rob thanks for sharing photos.
Is there a vent of some sort for suppressor blow back built into that upper? If so how does it work..? KD4 mentioned it a year or two ago but curious if it made its way into final production.
I haven’t found any vent on/in it.
What do you have as your mag catch? It looks to accomplish the same goal as a Redi-Catch but is cleaner looking.
It was called a “Bolt Control Device” or something like that. I don’t believe they ever went into production. But yes it locked the bolt to the rear like a Ready-Catch.
jerrysimons
11-10-19, 20:01
This is what I’m waiting to find out for sure...
Not going to work
https://66.media.tumblr.com/e42b3f3849d591da03e273487adc3d03/9933f0b573d98bd5-00/s1280x1920/1ea4c66f72f0efaa76cca4217b0b0c0dda098e01.jpg
https://66.media.tumblr.com/b0851d929c39eb7cb9647da70c099c4f/9f23bcc674a57965-34/s1280x1920/468c3ad4c784c3e99e36cde03e542f7eb75dfd60.jpg
Any news on a drop date and if stripped uppers will be available then? As a lefty the moved FA really interests me.
Seems like an enhanced bolt catch like the FCD one might interfere with the left side of this receiver.
Any news on a drop date and if stripped uppers will be available then? As a lefty the moved FA really interests me.
I wouldn't think that stripped uppers would go for sale at the same time a small amount of the complete uppers would be shipping. HOWEVER, that is a guess on my part and not anything learned from Paul or the BCM team. I don't know how fast they are able to machine these new uppers, nor do I have any idea how many machines they have dedicated to it.
Additionally.... My guess is that 3 or 4 of the most popular URGs of each rail type would be released first. Again, thats just a guess.
Cool, maybe it wont be too long. I'm wanting to build up a lower I have with a 16 mid for a recce type build. I wouldn't be opposed to buying a complete upper.
Go get em! in stock on website now
With no knowledge of when (or if) it would be offered as a stripped receiver, I ordered an MUR-1A a few days ago. It arrived today, so it's only natural for BCM's upper to be available today....also stripped.
Looking forward to using them to finally finish some complete uppers. Merry Christmas everyone!
BCM MK2 UPPER RECEIVER
Redesigned by lessons learned in combat since 9/11, the BCM MK2 Upper Receiver is built with up to 30% more rigidity than the current Mil-Spec M4 upper receiver without sacrificing interoperability for a mere additional 1/3 ounce of weight.
MEET THE NEW WAR
SAME AS THE OLD WAR
Upper receivers with baked in carry-handles and iron sights have been relegated to history. Optics are now synonymous with forward deployed combat carbines, featuring modular "optics ready" flat top upper receivers. Driven by a sense of urgency to improve lethality and save American lives in real-time, this innovation of the current M4 Upper Receiver has inadvertently introduced a degradation in the rigidity of the upper receiver, with the weakest point being the area around the ejection port.
Shifting mass from non-critical to critical areas; the BCM Mk2 Upper Receiver reduces barrel deflection and enhances bore tolerances improving barrel alignment, consistency and accuracy. This enhanced rigidity aids accuracy by limiting barrel deflection from external loads such as a bipod or vertical grip. Also prevents unwanted deflection of moving components, reducing the chance for premature damage and wear of the bolt and barrel lugs which results from misalignment.
LETHALITY IN THE DETAILS
In addition to weapon optics, suppressors have also become standard in modern combat operations. Added gas expansion areas and new channels added around the charging handle opening vent gases away from the end user’s face, reducing distractions when employing the weapon system with a can.
Fine tuning the positioning of the forward assist creates additional clearance for right hand sided charging handle manipulation and clearance for end plate mounted slings.
All these improvements come without affecting the manual of arms employed in manipulating a Mil-Spec upper receiver.
BUILT TO EXCEED
Forged from 7075T6, the BCM MK2 Upper Receivers retain a form following grain structure which maximizes achievable strength, the MK2 Upper Receiver retains all USGI components in assembly and works with all USGI bolt carriers, charging handles and barrel assemblies.
MADE IN AMERICA
All BCM components and accessories unite state of the art manufacturing with lightweight and durable materials to ensure components that last a lifetime, perform far beyond performance requirements established nearly six decades ago.
wetidlerjr
12-10-19, 22:36
IGNORE
There's a channel milled into the rear lug area, is that for gas/blowback........something else?
Just bought a stripped mk 2 upper. Im pretty excited for it
EzGoingKev
12-11-19, 15:38
Just bought a stripped mk 2 upper. Im pretty excited for it
When did this place become twitter?
When did this place become twitter?
Allow me to retort. A couple of people on this thread were questioning whether or not the stripped upper receiver would be available. Therefore, as I simply stated I was able to purchase one and was excited about it.
The price on there is pretty good. I wonder if it'll be as good for heavier barrels as the MUR.
When did this place become twitter?
I think its a little difference when someone is making a comment, as opposed to making it the first post in a thread. No harm done that I can see, comments like that aren't going to turn this into arfcom.
The price on there is pretty good. I wonder if it'll be as good for heavier barrels as the MUR.
I have never seen a percentage given for the Vltor MUR regarding its increase in stiffness. Deflection tests, such as the one Kino did, would be pretty easy to replicate.
I have never seen a percentage given for the Vltor MUR regarding its increase in stiffness. Deflection tests, such as the one Kino did, would be pretty easy to replicate.
The other part that really interests me is the tight barrel extension fit. This might end up being a giant win for the average guy on the market. Again, especially at that price.
The other part that really interests me is the tight barrel extension fit. This might end up being a giant win for the average guy on the market. Again, especially at that price.
I was pleasantly surprised by the price, enough so that I bought my first BCM non-blem stripped upper.
sidewaysil80
12-12-19, 07:46
Any insight on the channel in the upper being for blowback/gasses? If that is what it’s for and it works, I could see myself switching a couple uppers out for these.
Any insight on the channel in the upper being for blowback/gasses? If that is what it’s for and it works, I could see myself switching a couple uppers out for these.
Added gas expansion areas and new channels added around the charging handle opening vent gases away from the end user’s face, *reducing* distractions when employing the weapon system with a can.
Nice! I usually run the blems, but at this price I'll start grabbing these. Don't think there is enough there for me to switch out existing uppers, but anything new I'll give these a try.
sidewaysil80
12-16-19, 00:06
Those channels/venting sound great on paper, if someone can confirm they actually work I’m jumping on board.
Those channels/venting sound great on paper, if someone can confirm they actually work I’m jumping on board.
Likewise. Every little bit helps IME.
just tossing this out there but these do not work with a geissele rail, the tabs on the lower corners of the rail do not clear the added material on the upper.
just tossing this out there but these do not work with a geissele rail, the tabs on the lower corners of the rail do not clear the added material on the upper.
It looks like I will be breaking out the file , because to get it to fit the MK16 handguard you will have to remove about .080" thousands of an inch off the inside of both lower anti-rotational tabs, and approximately .015" thousands of an inch off of the inside of both the upper anti-rotational tabs. Yeah, a hassle for sure, but there is still *plenty* of thickness on all the tabs to more than do their job. The bare aluminum where you filed will be pretty much unnoticable on the inside of the tabs,
Modding the rail is an option and I agree that it would work and should not be too hard to do but I just wanted to let guys know that its not a drop in. I have a mk16 and 2 mk8 rails and might take a file to one for a test
I put an upper together using mine a couple days ago with a Roscoe 13.7" stainless barrel I wanted to try out.
I've used over a dozen of the 'blem' BCM uppers on builds and have never had to resort to heating the upper. I heated this one up and still had to tap the barrel home with a rubber mallet.
Don't know if it was the upper or the Roscoe extension. We'll see how it shoots in a week or so, it's off getting a JP flash hider pinned and welded.
I forgot to test mine with a Geissele MK4 while I was pairing it with a different upper.
I used it to replace the upper in a MK12 Mod 4. I was surprised to see the MK12's upper receiver had been lapped.
The MK2 upper had a tighter fit than the MK12's, which had a tighter fit than a standard BCM stripped upper. I only needed to heat the MK2.
I've used two MK1s with BCM barrels, without heat required. I was surprised.
I put an upper together using mine a couple days ago with a Roscoe 13.7" stainless barrel I wanted to try out.
I've used over a dozen of the 'blem' BCM uppers on builds and have never had to resort to heating the upper. I heated this one up and still had to tap the barrel home with a rubber mallet.
Don't know if it was the upper or the Roscoe extension. We'll see how it shoots in a week or so, it's off getting a JP flash hider pinned and welded.
Interesting. All my builds have BCM blems and all have had to be heated and tapped home. DDs, FNs and BA barrel.
Interesting. All my builds have BCM blems and all have had to be heated and tapped home. DDs, FNs and BA barrel.
This has been my experience as well with multiple brands of barrels including Colt and Mega to name two.
-Rainman
-Rainman
Interesting. All my builds have BCM blems and all have had to be heated and tapped home. DDs, FNs and BA barrel.
I have two BA's installed, no DD or FN. Don't get me wrong, they've been snug, but no heat required.
I put an upper together using mine a couple days ago with a Roscoe 13.7" stainless barrel I wanted to try out.
I've used over a dozen of the 'blem' BCM uppers on builds and have never had to resort to heating the upper. I heated this one up and still had to tap the barrel home with a rubber mallet.
Don't know if it was the upper or the Roscoe extension. We'll see how it shoots in a week or so, it's off getting a JP flash hider pinned and welded.
In my sample of two BCM uppers (new blem and non-blem) vs two Aero uppers (both new):
Aero uppers had a tighter barrel fit and much better lower to upper fit vs BCM. BCM were not a tight fit at all for barrels and were pretty sloppy for upper to lower fit. Barrels tried - BA, Rainier CHF, Colt. At that point I figured that BCM mil-spec uppers were probably over-hyped for what they were and just not worth it for me. Maybe I got out of spec or edge of the spec BCM uppers both times - who knows. Again, this is my personal opinion and limited experience.
I find it disingenuous for BCM to claim that their MK2 upper is fully mil-spec compatible, yet fail to mention that most popular aftermarket rails (Geissele) do not fit. BCM MK2 upper has been seen in a public for at least two years - I find it impossible to believe that BCM did not test with the Geissele rails.
CrowCommand
12-22-19, 13:12
I put an upper together using mine a couple days ago with a Roscoe 13.7" stainless barrel I wanted to try out.
I've used over a dozen of the 'blem' BCM uppers on builds and have never had to resort to heating the upper. I heated this one up and still had to tap the barrel home with a rubber mallet.
Don't know if it was the upper or the Roscoe extension. We'll see how it shoots in a week or so, it's off getting a JP flash hider pinned and welded.
Could be the Rosco barrel, I put my 11.5" Rosco in the freezer for and hour or two to get it to fit into the Aero upper I was building.
QuickStrike
12-22-19, 17:06
Damn, bummer that it won’t work with an LMT mars lower. :(
TBH, this is really a product in search of a problem. With all the potential compatibility issues, and the fact that standard upper receivers are perfectly fine, I really don't see why somebody would want one of these new upper receivers. If I felt I needed the absolute best upper receiver for a build, I'd go with a MUR.
Nothing wrong with making new products in order to make money, but I I can think of a ton of other true enhancements for the AR rifle that I'd prefer over this particular upper receiver.
Could be the Rosco barrel, I put my 11.5" Rosco in the freezer for and hour or two to get it to fit into the Aero upper I was building.
Stainless? How does it shoot?
This is my first Roscoe barrel, I wanted a 13.7 and they were pretty reasonable.
TBH, this is really a product in search of a problem. With all the potential compatibility issues, and the fact that standard upper receivers are perfectly fine, I really don't see why somebody would want one of these new upper receivers. If I felt I needed the absolute best upper receiver for a build, I'd go with a MUR.
Nothing wrong with making new products in order to make money, but I I can think of a ton of other true enhancements for the AR rifle that I'd prefer over this particular upper receiver.
1. Potential accuracy improvement
2. Potential durability improvement
3. Potential gas to face improvement
4. Definite improved compatibility with ambi charging handles
If it works with BCM rails and the URX 4, sounds like it could be a solid win.
In my sample of two BCM uppers (new blem and non-blem) vs two Aero uppers (both new):
Aero uppers had a tighter barrel fit and much better lower to upper fit vs BCM. BCM were not a tight fit at all for barrels and were pretty sloppy for upper to lower fit. Barrels tried - BA, Rainier CHF, Colt. At that point I figured that BCM mil-spec uppers were probably over-hyped for what they were and just not worth it for me. Maybe I got out of spec or edge of the spec BCM uppers both times - who knows. Again, this is my personal opinion and limited experience.
I find it disingenuous for BCM to claim that their MK2 upper is fully mil-spec compatible, yet fail to mention that most popular aftermarket rails (Geissele) do not fit. BCM MK2 upper has been seen in a public for at least two years - I find it impossible to believe that BCM did not test with the Geissele rails.
I'm far from a BCM fanboi, but I find their blem uppers to be a very good value. This upper, the MK2, is the first new stripped upper I've bought from them, I've never had what I would describe as loose barrel to receiver fit.
I've used/instaslled their uppers on numerous brands of lowers and never noticed excessive looseness, so I can't speak to that.
TBH, this is really a product in search of a problem. With all the potential compatibility issues, and the fact that standard upper receivers are perfectly fine, I really don't see why somebody would want one of these new upper receivers. If I felt I needed the absolute best upper receiver for a build, I'd go with a MUR.
I tend to agree, the reason I bought one was as a lefty to see if moving the FA forward made any difference in charging handle manipulation, which, truthfully, isn't much of a problem to begin with.
Gee, now I want a refund. :rolleyes:
CrowCommand
12-23-19, 04:54
Stainless? How does it shoot?
This is my first Roscoe barrel, I wanted a 13.7 and they were pretty reasonable.
4150 Nitride. It shoots well, but I haven't really had the opportunity to see what it can really do. It wears an Aimpoint PRO, looking into a Px4i so I can try it with some magnification. No problems ringing 8" steel at 200 yd with the RDS, though.
1- TBH, this is really a product in search of a problem.
2- With all the potential compatibility issues, and the fact that standard upper receivers are perfectly fine, I really don't see why somebody would want one of these new upper receivers.
3- If I felt I needed the absolute best upper receiver for a build, I'd go with a MUR.
4- Nothing wrong with making new products in order to make money, but I I can think of a ton of other true enhancements for the AR rifle that I'd prefer over this particular upper receiver.
1. If you are unfamiliar with the aspects of the weakening which occurred with the removal of the A1/ A2 carry handle, you might want to brush up. The carry handle was a reinforcement designed into the weapon from the start.
2. The "fact" that standard receivers are fine? That will depend on the aspects you are talking about. If you are meaning bolts breaking early than before due to flex, or less than trued faces, sure, modern, in spec receivers can be very functional.
3. If you felt like you needed something..... the key to most of what you posted is you. YOU don't see a need. YOU would rather get something else. YOU want other enhancements. The MUR is fantastic, and now BCM has come along with something which is similar while a fraction of the price.
4. There are loads of enhancements for the AR15 series of weapons. The individual shooter/ owner needs to make choices as for what their own particular needs are. That doesn't change the BCM creation is stronger, and held to higher tolerances than standard receivers. Nor does it change the built in gas dispersion.
You have a hard time arguing any of the shown improvement points of the BCM new receiver. In fact, I don't see where you have even talked about the item itself. The closest you have come is in talking about compatibility, and while there will no doubt be some rails that don't fit, it isn't the job of BCM to shoe horn their design ideas or project improvements into the given design of other manufacturers. What the receiver will do is work with all standard milspec components, and the vast majority of commercial ones.
I'm not sure you and I are actually arguing over anything on this, I think we are probably just looking at it from different angles.
I'm looking for an upper receiver with improved rigidity and tight fit for a non-free floated FSB based mid-length. This option keeps popping up in my mind. Would it provide any additional protection in the event of a Kaboom like the MUR does?
I'm looking for an upper receiver with improved rigidity and tight fit for a non-free floated FSB based mid-length. This option keeps popping up in my mind. Would it provide any additional protection in the event of a Kaboom like the MUR does?
I believe that’s part of the design purpose, moving the mass around to a more kaboom-tending area.
Came across this video this morning of Paul and Larry discussing the MK2 upper.
https://youtu.be/DLAe5RjDNys
Came across this video this morning of Paul and Larry discussing the MK2 upper.
https://youtu.be/DLAe5RjDNys
Thanks for sharing. He hits on all of the points I was asking about. And it's out of stock!
IndustrialHalo
12-24-19, 17:38
Well poop. Thought about buying one for a springtime build. Guess I have to wait for the next batch.
Thanks for sharing. He hits on all of the points I was asking about. And it's out of stock!
so the first batch sold out in 14 days: Dec 10th - Dec 24th.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/12/27/first-look-bravo-company-mfg-mk2-upper-receiver/
FYI, the DD RIS M4A1 handguard will work with the MK2 upper, but not without a *little* bit of filing on the anti-rotation tabs. Also, due to the thicker reinforced upper, the hardware (mounting bolts) install procedure is different than normal, and can only be done one way. And as you can see, the Badger Ordnance bolt release fits just fine.
https://i.imgur.com/i1rHGEjl.jpg
I believe that’s part of the design purpose, moving the mass around to a more kaboom-tending area.
Is there a Kaboom outbreak that I'm not aware of?
Is there a Kaboom outbreak that I'm not aware of?
A few free lunches here to be had. If it's rigid enough to help redirect energy and minimize kaboom damage, it should theoretically lead to better accuracy through increased stiffness. Safetywise, I'm already half deaf from birth, anything that increases eye safety is a huge plus in my book. I don't need to be the next Helen Keller.
Is there a Kaboom outbreak that I'm not aware of?
Not to my knowledge. But that’s the theory...
I had to write these off, since I’m not going to buy an upper that won’t work on two of my lowers.
Not to my knowledge. But that’s the theory...
I had to write these off, since I’m not going to buy an upper that won’t work on two of my lowers.
What part won't work with your lower? Just curious, if you don't want to name the company or issue its not a big deal.
LMT MARS-L
The right side bolt release would impact the forward assist. Not a design fault from either company, just a consequence of disconnected developments of AR receivers.
Very nice upper receiver and worthwhile improvements, I think.
That said, I wasn't able to complete a build using a LaRue LAT rail...
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-lokpicatinny-handguards/
The 'keeper' (small, crescent-shaped, piece of metal that locks down the barrel nut, and to a lesser degree the hand guard nut) doesn't sit correctly on the barrel threads on the receiver due to the increased metal in that area.
It might be possible to modify the keeper, although I'm unsure as I don't have the tools for that. I completed the build using another manufacturer's upper.
I spoke with Dan at LaRue this morning and he said that they've seen this incompatibility at times with billet upper receivers which don't always have the same dimensions as mil-spec. In some cases users have simply opted to not run the keeper and push the barrel nut torque to the high-side of the range. Since the LT barrel nut has to be timed (similar to the GI-spec version), this may or may not always be desirable (one of the reasons that the torque range is so generous).
Again, I think the new BCM is a very well made part but wanted folks to know that there is an issue (or idiosyncrasy) with LaRue rails.
-Rainman
naturerancher
12-30-19, 19:51
Very nice upper receiver and worthwhile improvements, I think.
That said, I wasn't able to complete a build using a LaRue LAT rail...
https://www.larue.com/products/larue-lokpicatinny-handguards/
The 'keeper' (small, crescent-shaped, piece of metal that locks down the barrel nut, and to a lesser degree the hand guard nut) doesn't sit correctly on the barrel threads on the receiver due to the increased metal in that area.
It might be possible to modify the keeper, although I'm unsure as I don't have the tools for that. I completed the build using another manufacturer's upper.
I spoke with Dan at LaRue this morning and he said that they've seen this incompatibility at times with billet upper receivers which don't always have the same dimensions as mil-spec. In some cases users have simply opted to not run the keeper and push the barrel nut torque to the high-side of the range. Since the LT barrel nut has to be timed (similar to the GI-spec version), this may or may not always be desirable (one of the reasons that the torque range is so generous).
Again, I think the new BCM is a very well made part but wanted folks to know that there is an issue (or idiosyncrasy) with LaRue rails.
-Rainman
Thanks for the post.
I was planning to wait on the BCM MK2 to come back in stock and mount a LaRue LAT handguard to it.
I may just use the BCM blem lower I have but it’s in between the barrel nut holes when torqued and I’m not sure how hard I want to push it.
If I end up getting the MK2 and modifying, I’ll post the results.
Mars-L owner as well. I wonder if you could modify the right side bolt catch to clear it?
LMT MARS-L
The right side bolt release would impact the forward assist. Not a design fault from either company, just a consequence of disconnected developments of AR receivers.
Maybe. For my part I probably wouldn’t. The standard flat top upper has worked fine, generally, for 20+ years. (Just like lefties adapted for 50, of course.) I like developments, and I looked forward to this one, but I am fine without it.
I think the biggest question we should ask is if BCM is planning on developing a new rail to go along with this upper. Because the cut out on the front of this new receiver would be a good place for a rail system to lock up into this new upper.
I think the biggest question we should ask is if BCM is planning on developing a new rail to go along with this upper. Because the cut out on the front of this new receiver would be a good place for a rail system to lock up into this new upper.
Maybe. It is almost SHOT Show, after all.
Maybe. It is almost SHOT Show, after all.
While there is a new rail coming out that I like, I would not count on BCM dropping a new rail right away. Obviously BCM will develop a new rail at some point, but I wouldn't bet the ranch on it being soon. On a side note, has any company really cared about SHOT in the last few years? It certainly doesn't seem that way.
While there is a new rail coming out that I like, I would not count on BCM dropping a new rail right away. Obviously BCM will develop a new rail at some point, but I wouldn't bet the ranch on it being soon. On a side note, has any company really cared about SHOT in the last few years? It certainly doesn't seem that way.
The last thing that made me stop and think from the show would be BCM unveiling their ELW barrels. That was a while ago...
The last thing that made me stop and think from the show would be BCM unveiling their ELW barrels. That was a while ago...
SHOT just isn't a big deal anymore. I know a company that I've helped out a few times who commented that they could do a large SHOT table, host a SHOT party, and whatever else that went along with it, or they could spend $250k on something that actually resulted in a profit. SHOT hype still lives on, but for the more "modern" companies, it is a chore with little payback.
Eurodriver
01-05-20, 17:41
SHOT just isn't a big deal anymore. I know a company that I've helped out a few times who commented that they could do a large SHOT table, host a SHOT party, and whatever else that went along with it, or they could spend $250k on something that actually resulted in a profit. SHOT hype still lives on, but for the more "modern" companies, it is a chore with little payback.
Shot hasnt made any financial sense since about 2012.
All the companies were “releasing” products but not actually shipping anything until June or July. Then it became November. Eventually it was like a car show that shows concept cars that never get released. What’s the point of a show? I can’t remember what specific product it was, but there was SO.MUCH.HYPE. and it literally *never* got released. I have to go look it up because it was hilarious. “Wait for SHOT” they said...
No one GAF what a YouTube reviewer who’s never shot at anyone thinks, and if a company isn’t selling kit then they’re not going to reap any profit from show and tell in Vegas.
No one GAF what a YouTube reviewer who’s never shot at anyone thinks, and if a company isn’t selling kit then they’re not going to reap any profit from show and tell in Vegas.
Chortle [emoji2960]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the post.
I was planning to wait on the BCM MK2 to come back in stock and mount a LaRue LAT handguard to it.
I may just use the BCM blem lower I have but it’s in between the barrel nut holes when torqued and I’m not sure how hard I want to push it.
If I end up getting the MK2 and modifying, I’ll post the results.
Can you shim the barrel nut with, say, an ALG shim to align it within the torque range?
Andy
Yes...did that on a recent build when closest hole was <minimum torque value, next hole up was close to maximum. I like to stay on the lower end of the barrel nut torque range, so used a shim and all is good.
-Rainman
Outlander Systems
01-07-20, 14:24
Just showed up in the mail. FA position is brilliant, and the receiver opposite the port door is absolutely THICC.
https://i.ibb.co/cDcy200/7-F99699-C-15-B6-491-B-BE9-B-D29-D102-D6-A51.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/DzS6ZVy/5857-A224-58-EA-4-E7-E-AEBF-C0763-A772254.jpg
Just showed up in the mail. FA position is brilliant, and the receiver opposite the port door is absolutely THICC.
Mine didn't have the BCM logo on the side. I'll bet yours cures cancer. :jester:
What did you use on the port cover rod instead of the circlip?
I still haven't made up my mind about the greatness of the FA location. I'm a lefty so you'd think standard locations would really give me a snoutful of gas, but they have never really bothered me, maybe because I generally shoot .223 vs. 5.56 suppressed, or unsurpressed for that matter. I haven't run any FTF drills yet, so unsure if it really makes a difference for left-handed operation.
I'm not regretting my purchase, by any means, I used it for a new 13.7 pin and weld. I'll probably take that barrel off on down the road and use the upper with an 18 or 20 inch barrel of known precision off another upper to see if it really makes a difference.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/96552c1f980d990570b7317c948f7782/f8fa99f5f797d639-d1/s1280x1920/9cf1d08d2a79071d681fd6472d8918270d7ce3fb.jpg
https://66.media.tumblr.com/a7e01fcd275957e7a1b7fd98f3de7c78/e8be57ea8ff2f045-0d/s1280x1920/099080ddfb2e61401e776d7c61c5262f072b2707.jpg
Mine didn't have the BCM logo on the side. I'll bet yours cures cancer. :jester:
What did you use on the port cover rod instead of the circlip?
I still haven't made up my mind about the greatness of the FA location. I'm a lefty so you'd think standard locations would really give me a snoutful of gas, but they have never really bothered me, maybe because I generally shoot .223 vs. 5.56 suppressed, or unsurpressed for that matter. I haven't run any FTF drills yet, so unsure if it really makes a difference for left-handed operation.
I'm not regretting my purchase, by any means, I used it for a new 13.7 pin and weld. I'll probably take that barrel off on down the road and use the upper with an 18 or 20 inch barrel of known precision off another upper to see if it really makes a difference.
I was under the impression that the logo isn't there on stripped uppers, just complete ones.
Outlander Systems
01-07-20, 19:34
Mine was a complete upper. I thought the logos were only for complete uppers as well.
I was under the impression that the logo isn't there on stripped uppers, just complete ones.
I was under the impression that the logo isn't there on stripped uppers, just complete ones.
That seems logical. Wasn't aware.
I was under the impression that the logo isn't there on stripped uppers, just complete ones.
That is my understanding as well, with it being done to show what is and what isn't a factory build.
naturerancher
01-09-20, 00:32
Can you shim the barrel nut with, say, an ALG shim to align it within the torque range?
Andy
Yup. Probably could use some KAC shims I have.
Got it to line up at 75-80 pounds without shimming. Felt awfully tight.
I don't like how far my rear sight has to be cranked to zero, so maybe there’s something slightly out of square somewhere.
I’ll wait for th Mk2 to come back in stock and probably rebuild on that upper for giggles.
That bulge on the left side is fugly. I get it point. What I’m lost on is why absolutely no attempt at asthetics was made to blend the lines of the reinforcement with the receiver. There was potential, they did not bother.
I’m going to go right ahead and pass on these receivers. 30% increase is not particularly notable to me.
At this particular point I’ve come to the opinion that the BCM designs while nice, are certainly not at the top of pile. End of the day compared to Geiselle or Raptor charging handles the BCM sucks and bites you. The rail is nice but very very flexible. Key-mod is just about done.
BCM has nice barrels produced for them. But let’s be real. They are not reinventing the wheel here. The EWL profile is nice, but not rocket science, mostly just common sense.
The stubby angles forgrip is the best BCM product in my eyes.
Um, posted in wrong thread somehow
EzGoingKev
01-09-20, 07:58
That bulge on the left side is fugly. I get it point. What I’m lost on is why absolutely no attempt at asthetics was made to blend the lines of the reinforcement with the receiver. There was potential, they did not bother.
Maybe you could throw some gucciflage so no one will see it.
The rail is nice but very very flexible.
The rails are going to be a balance between weight and stiffness. You need to choose based on what fills your needs.
That bulge on the left side is fugly. I get it point. What I’m lost on is why absolutely no attempt at asthetics was made to blend the lines of the reinforcement with the receiver. There was potential, they did not bother.
I’m going to go right ahead and pass on these receivers. 30% increase is not particularly notable to me.
At this particular point I’ve come to the opinion that the BCM designs while nice, are certainly not at the top of pile. End of the day compared to Geiselle or Raptor charging handles the BCM sucks and bites you. The rail is nice but very very flexible. Key-mod is just about done.
BCM has nice barrels produced for them. But let’s be real. They are not reinventing the wheel here. The EWL profile is nice, but not rocket science, mostly just common sense.
The stubby angles forgrip is the best BCM product in my eyes.
Doesn’t sound like you’ve tried the newer CHs. And yeah the ELW is obvious, but there are still a lot of companies not doing it.
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That bulge on the left side is fugly. I get it point. What I’m lost on is why absolutely no attempt at asthetics was made to blend the lines of the reinforcement with the receiver. There was potential, they did not bother.
Said in the spirit of fun - 'BCM builds work weapons not show pieces.' I can see guys upset that the upper doesn't work with some of the rails they want, but really, while the bugle may detract from the looks of the AR15 upper in the eyes of the true aficionado, it will barely register with most folks.
At this particular point I’ve come to the opinion that the BCM designs while nice, are certainly not at the top of pile. End of the day compared to Geiselle or Raptor charging handles the BCM sucks and bites you.
To be fair, and please correwct me if I'm wrong, the Gunfighter charging handles were on the scene well before the Geissele SCH, not sure about the Raptor. Later charging handle designs have the benefit of other folk's trial and tribulations.
I have one Ambi Gunfighter, and a couple of Geissele SCH's. My go to charging handle is the Raptor, although I did buy a couple of SCH's on black friday. Have you handled the Gunfighter Mod 3x3?
The stubby angles foregrip is the best BCM product in my eyes.
Now here is an example of tastes varying. I hate that thing, give me a simple MagPul M-Lok for $18.00.
Eurodriver
01-10-20, 07:20
Why does anyone care what rails BCM’s new proprietary uppers work with? Im baffled anyone would complain about this. Just use a regular upper and stop trying to be a cool kid. Home boys out here with files and dremels and duracoat lol.
And 26 Inf, BCM has put the logos on their complete uppers, and only their complete uppers, for like ten years. Where you been bro?
I didn’t even know these were released yet. I am buying an 11.5” ELW with MCMR and almost bought a Mk2 inadvertently but I’m on the fence. I don’t like trying new stuff. I guess all the parts are the same and it’s just a different shape but I’ll probably pass and get a legacy upper.
I didn’t even know these were released yet. I am buying an 11.5” ELW with MCMR and almost bought a Mk2 inadvertently but I’m on the fence. I don’t like trying new stuff. I guess all the parts are the same and it’s just a different shape but I’ll probably pass and get a legacy upper.
That’s clearly why you always miss.
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Why does anyone care what rails BCM’s new proprietary uppers work with? Im baffled anyone would complain about this. Just use a regular upper and stop trying to be a cool kid. Home boys out here with files and dremels and duracoat lol. ~ snip
I don't know about complaining, but it would be nice to know about an incompatibility in advance.
As far as asthetics, moving the forward assist towards the ejection port is jarring to my eyes. The AR is a pretty ugly weapon system anyway, definitely form over function.
Andy
BCM is in the business of selling their gear and not worrying what fits their new proprietary upper. I think the onus is on the buyer to do their own due diligence on compatibility.
BCM is in the business of selling their gear and not worrying what fits their new proprietary upper. I think the onus is on the buyer to do their own due diligence on compatibility.
I would call that common sense. How many people buy a Ford Mustang and expect Chevy parts to fit without checking? Sure the AR is a more simplistic system, but it doesn't change that not everything fits everything else, not with AR parts, nor with everything else.
This has fallen into arfcom style posting in this thread. People don't like the way the reinforcement hump looks. People don't like that it doesn't fit another manufacturer. People don't like the way forward assist looks. Now add in the clownfish who don't understand what a sustained rate of fire is, what benefits an increase in rigidity brings, or why BCM marks products, and it is like the monkeys are trying to run the circus.
With all the negative posting about the receiver, you would think perhaps one person could bring up a valid concern, but evidently that is too much to ask. I can see why Eric K hasn't posted in the thread.
And 26 Inf, BCM has put the logos on their complete uppers, and only their complete uppers, for like ten years. Where you been bro?
For the most part not buying complete uppers, I have yet to buy a complete rifle. Probably the closest I've come is my LaRue 6.5G which was an Ultimate Upper Kit as well as a lower, or the Colt CCU I put together from a complete Colt lower and then a complete (except BCG and CH) CCU upper both from Brownell's.
I use BCM blem uppers for almost everything I put together, this new upper is the first non-blem stripped upper I've bought from them.
Now add in the clownfish who don't understand what a sustained rate of fire is, what benefits an increase in rigidity brings, or why BCM marks products, and it is like the monkeys are trying to run the circus.
Well, excuse me all to f#$% for not knowing BCM corporate policy on marking stripped uppers.
Outlander Systems
01-10-20, 16:55
Don’t take it personally, homie. The reason BCM marks certain products and not others is simple:
1) Bubba buys BCM marked upper
2) Throws cheapest garbage aluminum gas block and trash $89 special barrel on it
3) Slips some hinky Chinesium BCG in it
4) 6 Months later sells “BCM” upper
5) Unsuspecting buyer gets it
6) Total Turd
7) “Lulz, BCM sucks”
That’s one, among many, reasons certain companies mark their uppers and carriers.
Well, excuse me all to f#$% for not knowing BCM corporate policy on marking stripped uppers.
>Serious Shooter
>Caring what logo is on your gun and fretting about aesthetics
Pick one
Don’t take it personally, homie. The reason BCM marks certain products and not others is simple:
1) Bubba buys BCM marked upper
2) Throws cheapest garbage aluminum gas block and trash $89 special barrel on it
3) Slips some hinky Chinesium BCG in it
4) 6 Months later sells “BCM” upper
5) Unsuspecting buyer gets it
6) Total Turd
7) “Lulz, BCM sucks”
That’s one, among many, reasons certain companies mark their uppers and carriers.
Not intending this to be a sharp answer, but if you recall when you and Wake 77 brought it to my attention that BCM marked complete uppers, I responded 'didn't know, makes sense.'
Now I'm referred to as a 'clownfish' by a guy who probably has his name marked on his wife and kids' bottoms.
Eurodriver
01-11-20, 09:10
Not intending this to be a sharp answer, but if you recall when you and Wake 77 brought it to my attention that BCM marked complete uppers, I responded 'didn't know, makes sense.'
Now I'm referred to as a 'clownfish' by a guy who probably has his name marked on his wife ans kids' bottoms.
This thread has been such a complete disaster.
This is the icing on the Finding Nemo cake.
:)
This thread has been such a complete disaster.
This is the icing on the Finding Nemo cake.
:)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200111/ca2b34c7b409967af4adbb8c5d6ae89f.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bought one out of curiosity just to see for myself after waiting for two years to get it released. Some original skepticism and concerns aside...
Initial impressions - absolutely great! Perfect machining, finish, anodizing, and dry lube inside.
Overall design, in my opinion is a step or two ahead of a mil-spec upper. For some reason it feels lot more streamlined and compact around a brass deflector and a forward assist.
Haven't assembled it into the complete yet, but barrel extension seems to be ultra tight - much, much, tighter than a standard BCM upper and definitely will require some heat to install.
Area around the port cover door is very thick, so is the area just below a barrel nut threads. Geissele rails with lower anti-rotation tabs (MK13/14) won't fit out of the box and will require tabs to be filled off approximately 1.5-2mm on each side. Rails like Centurion might or might not fit, as the area just above barrel nut (and below the area where BCM MCMR anti-rotational tabs install) also appear slightly thicker than a mil-spec. For the reference see post #129 for BCM rail tabs location: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?202277-BCM-Prototype-upper&p=2783841#post2783841
If you're not planning to move a handguard around it's probably worthwhile to file tabs to size.
Fit to lower (again try fit for testing) - feels to have less slop than a regular BCM upper (good improvement), but not medium-tight like some Aero uppers. No concerns regarding a fit.
It feels like a solid product. No concerns with aesthetics. After some initial concerns about a rail fitment, I think it's a winning product and see no reason to buy other higher priced mil-spec uppers like a regular BCM, COLT, LMT, DD over this.
Well, excuse me all to f#$% for not knowing BCM corporate policy on marking stripped uppers.
The comment was made in general, and not directed at you. As far as I know, you don't fall into the clownfish category. The comment was made in the generic sense for those on multiple boards, and the term clownfish is used by myself to avoid using the obscenities I would use to people in person.
While you and I do not agree on everything, I consider you a good egg, and appreciate the posts you make on the board. From your replies, it appears you took my comment as a personal attack, and for that you have my apology. The Troglodytes who should have understood the barb are probably too ignorant to understand.
Don’t take it personally, homie. The reason BCM marks certain products and not others is simple:
1) Bubba buys BCM marked upper
2) Throws cheapest garbage aluminum gas block and trash $89 special barrel on it
3) Slips some hinky Chinesium BCG in it
4) 6 Months later sells “BCM” upper
5) Unsuspecting buyer gets it
6) Total Turd
7) “Lulz, BCM sucks”
That’s one, among many, reasons certain companies mark their uppers and carriers.
You nailed it. If you look at the batch of recent muzzle devices and charging handles which are sold for cheaper than OEM, people don't understand it is cheap garbage coming into the country at dirt cheap prices. If I can find the price list, I'll post it so people can see how things work in the industry (and general commerce).
Bought one out of curiosity just to see for myself after waiting for two years to get it released. Some original skepticism and concerns aside...
Initial impressions - absolutely great! Perfect machining, finish, anodizing, and dry lube inside.
Overall design, in my opinion is a step or two ahead of a mil-spec upper. For some reason it feels lot more streamlined and compact around a brass deflector and a forward assist.
Haven't assembled it into the complete yet, but barrel extension seems to be ultra tight - much, much, tighter than a standard BCM upper and definitely will require some heat to install.
Area around the port cover door is very thick, so is the area just below a barrel nut threads. Geissele rails with lower anti-rotation tabs (MK13/14) won't fit out of the box and will require tabs to be filled off approximately 1.5-2mm on each side. Rails like Centurion might or might not fit, as the area just above barrel nut (and below the area where BCM MCMR anti-rotational tabs install) also appear slightly thicker than a mil-spec. For the reference see post #129 for BCM rail tabs location: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?202277-BCM-Prototype-upper&p=2783841#post2783841
If you're not planning to move a handguard around it's probably worthwhile to file tabs to size.
Fit to lower (again try fit for testing) - feels to have less slop than a regular BCM upper (good improvement), but not medium-tight like some Aero uppers. No concerns regarding a fit.
It feels like a solid product. No concerns with aesthetics. After some initial concerns about a rail fitment, I think it's a winning product and see no reason to buy other higher priced mil-spec uppers like a regular BCM, COLT, LMT, DD over this.
Thank you for making a quality post to add in your thoughts and actually having product in hand. When I read your post, I grabbed a Centurion Arms rail and trying fitting it to the BCM improved upper. It is ALMOST close enough to tap it into place. I'm going to heat the rail and see if it will, but my guess is that it will take a couple swipes with a file. If I can find my calipers, I'll pull some measurements.
Eurodriver
01-24-20, 09:09
When will these be shipping? Has BCM had them in stock? I noticed Brownells has them available for “pre-order”
ETA: Clarifying that I’m asking about the upper alone not assembled uppers from BCM.
BCM ain’t got that good good RGP or Centurion CHF goodness
When will these be shipping? Has BCM had them in stock? I noticed Brownells has them available for “pre-order”
ETA: Clarifying that I’m asking about the upper alone not assembled uppers from BCM.
BCM ain’t got that good good RGP or Centurion CHF goodness
BCM had a bunch for sale and they went quick. If I talk to Paul I'll find out when they are expected back in stock. I know that I want to order a few for builds. Which makes no sense as I'm already sitting on a bunch of uppers, but I feel that need for new cool toys!
Outlander Systems
01-24-20, 12:26
It sure would suck if you told Paul people were asking for 16” Recce URGs with Mk2 uppers...
BCM had a bunch for sale and they went quick. If I talk to Paul I'll find out when they are expected back in stock. I know that I want to order a few for builds. Which makes no sense as I'm already sitting on a bunch of uppers, but I feel that need for new cool toys!
Eurodriver
01-29-20, 09:40
BCM had a bunch for sale and they went quick. If I talk to Paul I'll find out when they are expected back in stock. I know that I want to order a few for builds. Which makes no sense as I'm already sitting on a bunch of uppers, but I feel that need for new cool toys!
Have you talked to Paul :)
I have everything I need for a badass upper except the upper itself. I’m not usually a fan of new things but BCM uppers are something I trust. It’s crazy you can’t find these *anywhere*.
PS did we just become internet friends?!?
Edit: Got one. Just waiting on the 9” MCMR now. Very excited.
naturerancher
02-01-20, 13:33
Have you talked to Paul :)
I have everything I need for a badass upper except the upper itself. I’m not usually a fan of new things but BCM uppers are something I trust. It’s crazy you can’t find these *anywhere*.
PS did we just become internet friends?!?
Edit: Got one. Just waiting on the 9” MCMR now. Very excited.
Where did you find one? They are listed for pre-order at Brownells and I can't find them at all on BCM's site any more.
I found out about these one day before they went out of stock in Dec 2019 and have been wanting to try one out.
I wonder if this machined out cavity in the MK2 upper, is for an anti-rotational insert that mates to a new *hard use* handguard BCM is working on?
https://i.imgur.com/xf9SHepl.jpg
I wonder if this machined out cavity in the MK2 upper, is for an anti-rotational insert that mates to a new handguard BCM is working on?
https://i.imgur.com/xf9SHepl.jpgSure looks like it...
BCM doesn't have the stripped MkII uppers on their website
jerrysimons
02-10-20, 13:11
I wonder if this machined out cavity in the MK2 upper, is for an anti-rotational insert that mates to a new *hard use* handguard BCM is working on?
https://i.imgur.com/xf9SHepl.jpg
Possible. My opinion is it is that cut out is like the flutes on the forward assist housing and is there to compensate for the increased weight of the areas they beefed up the dimensions. With the page off the BCM site now I can't double check but I think I remember reading one of the design goals was to increase rigidity and strength for little to no weight increase over a mil-spec profile upper.
Possible. My opinion is it is that cut out is like the flutes on the forward assist housing and is there to compensate for the increased weight of the areas they beefed up the dimensions. With the page off the BCM site now I can't double check but I think I remember reading one of the design goals was to increase rigidity and strength for little to no weight increase over a mil-spec profile upper.
Yeah, I think your right about it.
mebiuspower
02-10-20, 19:36
I wonder if this machined out cavity in the MK2 upper, is for an anti-rotational insert that mates to a new *hard use* handguard BCM is working on?
https://i.imgur.com/xf9SHepl.jpg
No....
With the page off the BCM site now.
Perhaps I missed it, but has there been any reason given for no longer offering the stripped MK2? Was it the internet complaining about non-compatibility with certain rails? I was planning on getting another.
Thanks.
I would not be surprised if they are tweaking the forging or editing the CNC Program of the Mk2 upper just a little, so they are compatible with non BCM handguards that have anti-rotational tabs.
Beta test sample numbers were hit.
Just kidding, I love BCM and understand they wouldn’t do that. But it was there.
SniperOverwatch
02-15-20, 22:25
Hmmm....this has me wanting to get one of the new CORE barrels from Criterion when they come out and build up a new upper.....
Kinda go for a recce flavor.
From BCM's site:
In addition to weapon optics, suppressors have also become standard in modern combat operations. With added gas expansion areas and new channels added around the charging handle opening, vent gas away from the end user's face, reducing distractions when employing the weapon system with a can.
Any more details heard or conveyed on this particular design feature? Reduction % or anything?
Probably have to wait for more to get out in the field and tested, but very intriguing with all the other gas mitigating parts out there.
Eurodriver
02-16-20, 13:49
From BCM's site:
In addition to weapon optics, suppressors have also become standard in modern combat operations. With added gas expansion areas and new channels added around the charging handle opening, vent gas away from the end user's face, reducing distractions when employing the weapon system with a can.
Any more details heard or conveyed on this particular design feature? Reduction % or anything?
Probably have to wait for more to get out in the field and tested, but very intriguing with all the other gas mitigating parts out there.
I have other gas mitigating features (small gp barrel, Gemtech BCG) but this upper spits gas and oil right into my shooting eye. I’ve never had any other rifle do that. It might mitigate gas but the small amount that remains is ejected in a shitty spot
Any more info on this new bcm rail coming out?
I have other gas mitigating features (small gp barrel, Gemtech BCG) but this upper spits gas and oil right into my shooting eye. I’ve never had any other rifle do that. It might mitigate gas but the small amount that remains is ejected in a shitty spot
Is this with the BCM Mk2 upper receiver?
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