View Full Version : New Vortex Razor LPV Coming...
From Vortex this morning on instagram:
Can you spot the difference? Coming 2018.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171205/bae0d0d26143bb14cac362ce3e32b5d5.jpg
https://instagram.com/p/BcUtfV7hmLg/
I'm guessing it's going to be a 1-8x with some other minor tweaks.
Saw that too. I think the tube looks a bit larger, so maybe a 34mm? My hope is either a lighter 1-6 or a 1-8 that’s the same weight. They also posted a teaser of something that looks like a more direct competitor to the Aimpoint micros.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
gunnerblue
12-05-17, 12:01
1-8 seems to be the trend these days. I may hold off on my Kahles purchase for a while though to see if this is a lighter 1-6 Razor
Lighter would definitely be a bonus. On a recent episode of P&S Steve Fisher hinted a new Night Force 1-? Being announced at SHOT 2018. Next year looks to be a good one for LPV optics.
Probably 34mm tube..in either 1-6 or 1-8..but the weight..I don’t think it’s gonna be lighter..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
34mm 1-8x and heavy is my guess.
Vortex Razors are built like tanks and with that they are heavy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For *me* the 1x6x magnification is the sweet spot for my 16 inch barreled 5.56 rifle and for the distance at which *I* will be using it most if not all of the time, 0-300 or 400 yds max. It seems that once scopes go to 8x in magnification, tube size goes up, which means it weight goes up, which means its FOV at *both* ends is usually less , OAL is also usually longer and the scopes eyebox usually becomes smaller and a little slower to use quickly at both the top and bottom end of the scopes magnification.
Jwknutson17
12-05-17, 18:08
For a 308 the 1-8 is where it's at. You don't need anything more then a 1-6 on a 5.56 carbine just as Biggie said. If I was in the market for another LPV I would probably get the Kahles or another Mk6.
If NF came out with a 1-8 I think a lot of folks would jump to that ship on their SR25s. The CQBSS is fine in the H27D, but expensive. The Minox is also a good option for the 1-8.
I'm interested to see what happens this year at shot. Not holding my breath for a NF anything. It's been what.. 3 years now of them not bringing it out to the table. Unless the Vortex gets a pound lighter, I wouldn't buy another 1-6 of theirs.
gamewarden
12-05-17, 21:32
Just some upgrades...same scope otherwise. NF does have a 1-8 coming out and it's supposed to be FFP at somewhat of a reasonable price point.
Just some upgrades...same scope otherwise. NF does have a 1-8 coming out and it's supposed to be FFP at somewhat of a reasonable price point.
That will be nice to see. I'm also wondering if the new Vortex Razor will be FFP.
I don't know for sure, but does *anyone* in three gun competion use a FFP scope on their fast and furious rifles ? If not, as they say, that would be considered a clue.
Also, the following information is from a 2017 Remington magazine article I was reading at the bookstore about our armed services deciding to stick with the 7.62x51mm instead of the newer 6mm calibers. The head NC officer in charge of the special forces sniper school had done a survey of 108 school trained snipers who had seen service in Afghanistan and Iraq. The snipers were asked about engagement distances where they were employed as snipers. * The average * engagment distance for the 108 men across both theaters was 396 meters or *433 yards*. Its likely the marines were seeing something very similar. I would think at 433yds a FFP scope is not really needed or maybe even wanted and inside of 400yds the same would apply to a 16" barreled AR. After about 500 yds, I would rather just step up to a larger caliber and from there on out a FFP reticle might be preferred.
fedupflyer
12-06-17, 00:45
I don't know for sure, but does *anyone* in three gun competion use a FFP scope on their fast and furious rifles ? If not, as they say, that would be considered a clue.
Could it be because there are only a handful of FFP low power scope that would lend themselves toward 3 gun?
I can only think of two off the top of my head and only one really has the proper reticle for a 16’ barrel and 75/77g bullets.
I have not seen it for myself but the word on the street is the glass sucks but a version 2 is in the works to be released shortly by Eotech. Shot show maybe.
The two most common bullets in 3 gun or go fast type shooting is 55g Hornady followed by 75g Hornady then 77g SMK.
Funny part is most manufactures don’t really seem to ask their customers what recticles they want and just put out some sort of bastardized avg or gear it toward a 55g load with unreachable velocities with a 16’ barrel.
I hope one of the upgrades is less weight. My 1-6 was a pig.
Probably 34mm tube..in either 1-6 or 1-8..but the weight..I don’t think it’s gonna be lighter..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This. Can't see how making the tube wider will result in less weight :(
If that is really a picture of it I don’t think it is a 34mm tube. I’m sure it is just an update to 8x. I mean they are revealing this on the 8th. Coincidence? I think not. Haha. I am interested to see their new red dot too that I have hear rumor of being released the same day.
gamewarden
12-06-17, 07:46
No FFP.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
If that is really a picture of it I don’t think it is a 34mm tube. I’m sure it is just an update to 8x. I mean they are revealing this on the 8th. Coincidence? I think not. Haha. I am interested to see their new red dot too that I have hear rumor of being released the same day.
They're releasing all of their new optics including the two new higher powered Strike Eagles on the 8th.
Higher than the 1-8? Wow. That might be a nice toy to have at the range.
This. Can't see how making the tube wider will result in less weight :(
More air inside. Duh. ;)
Higher than the 1-8? Wow. That might be a nice toy to have at the range.
Not LPVOs, looks like they're probably going to add a 2-10x32mm and something like a 3-12x or 4-16x42mm to the Strike Eagle lineup.
Got it. I am interested in their new red dot. Wonder if they will end up having something that last 50,000 hours like their competition.
Got it. I am interested in their new red dot. Wonder if they will end up having something that last 50,000 hours like their competition.
I'm sure that's the case since they already have the Sparc II and Sparc AR in the lineup.
I hope I don’t regret my recent purchases.
I hope I don’t regret my recent purchases.
Happens every time. I hold out and try to resist buying something, and by the time I finally break down and get one, it either goes on sale 50% off a week later or is replaced by a newer, more superior version in a couple of months. :cray:
I don't know for sure, but does *anyone* in three gun competion use a FFP scope on their fast and furious rifles ? If not, as they say, that would be considered a clue.
Also, the following information is from a 2017 Remington magazine article I was reading at the bookstore about our armed services deciding to stick with the 7.62x51mm instead of the newer 6mm calibers. The head NC officer in charge of the special forces sniper school had done a survey of 108 school trained snipers who had seen service in Afghanistan and Iraq. The snipers were asked about engagement distances where they were employed as snipers. * The average * engagment distance for the 108 men across both theaters was 396 meters or *433 yards*. Its likely the marines were seeing something very similar. I would think at 433yds a FFP scope is not really needed or maybe even wanted and inside of 400yds the same would apply to a 16" barreled AR. After about 500 yds, I would rather just step up to a larger caliber and from there on out a FFP reticle might be preferred.
I wouldn't know about any three gunners, but I do know Kyle Defoor is a big proponent of FFP in LPV scopes.
http://soldiersystems.net/2016/08/06/gunfighter-moment-kyle-defoor-11/
The one on the right will be slightly more expensive than the one on the left.
1-8 would be my guess.
Why would anyone NOT use FFP on a LPVO?
My understanding is that a LPVO is supposed to fullfil two roles:
1. Rapid target engagement - This is what 1x is for. While not a true RDS, it gives you an approximation of a RDS
2. Magnified target engagement - What we want magnified optics for. Not necessarily a quick shot, but sometthing you take a moment to line up.
Wouldn't you expect to transition quite a bit between the two and thus, you would have to make calculations and adjust for a POI shift every time you do? I would have to imagine you'd want to zero it at the high end of magnification. Wouldn't that throw off your POA/POI at 1x?
gunnerblue
12-06-17, 18:50
Why would anyone NOT use FFP on a LPVO?
My understanding is that a LPVO is supposed to fullfil two roles:
1. Rapid target engagement - This is what 1x is for. While not a true RDS, it gives you an approximation of a RDS
2. Magnified target engagement - What we want magnified optics for. Not necessarily a quick shot, but sometthing you take a moment to line up.
Wouldn't you expect to transition quite a bit between the two and thus, you would have to make calculations and adjust for a POI shift every time you do? I would have to imagine you'd want to zero it at the high end of magnification. Wouldn't that throw off your POA/POI at 1x?
Only a very cheap or defective scope will change POI/POA when changing magnification (if I’m understanding your question correctly). FFP LPV’s are very sensitive to reticle design, in my experience. I have a USO SR-4C and a Mark 6 TMR-D. Both are designed to be used with their red dots on at 1x and while both are usable without illumination, their reticles are very thin at lowest magnification. On the other hand, at maximum magnification, their reticles are somewhat thick. Fine for silhouettes and such but not ideal for precision.
I wouldn't know about any three gunners, but I do know Kyle Defoor is a big proponent of FFP in LPV scopes.
http://soldiersystems.net/2016/08/06/gunfighter-moment-kyle-defoor-11/
I think that scope is a dual focal plane scope. According to US Optics website site it is currently discontinued.
I think that scope is a dual focal plane scope. According to US Optics website site it is currently discontinued.
The reticle is FFP and it has a red dot that is SPF. Yes it was discontinued, but KD4 is still an advocate of FFP LPV optics. He discusses their merits in his classes. They may not be right for everyone and every situation but they are not without merit either.
Besides my rifle feeling unbalanced, my biggest complaint with the Razor was that it was SFP. Really didn’t work for me at 1x.
So I’m hoping the new one will be FFP.
Besides my rifle feeling unbalanced, my biggest complaint with the Razor was that it was SFP. Really didn’t work for me at 1x.
So I’m hoping the new one will be FFP.
Why would FFP vs SFP matter at 1x?
Mr. Goodtimes
12-06-17, 23:50
Why would FFP vs SFP matter at 1x?
At 1x most FFP reticles become nearly unusable without the illuminated dot/center section as the reticle “shrinks” down so much.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’m guessing it’s just a new reticle
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
vicious_cb
12-07-17, 07:34
I would be happy if they just cut the weight down by 8 or 9 ozs.
I would be happy if they just cut the weight down by 8 or 9 ozs.
...and same price.
Why would FFP vs SFP matter at 1x?
Just the way my eye works, I couldn’t pick up the reticle very well.
I had the MK6, and at 1x the reticle was very fine, but I was still able to use it. The entire reticle was my aim point and it just worked for me.
Got it. I am interested in their new red dot. Wonder if they will end up having something that last 50,000 hours like their competition.
I just hope it takes aimpoint mounts. I will probably get one for a 9mm SBR and move the MRO that is sitting on the SBR to another rifle.
I haven't heard much about the new RAZOR® AMG™ UH-1™ HOLOGRAPHIC SIGHT lately. I wonder how thats doing ?
Sorry. I posted the announcement for the Strike Eagle, not Razor. Deleted.
Only a very cheap or defective scope will change POI/POA when changing magnification (if I’m understanding your question correctly).
I believe what he was referring to was the ability of a FFP to maintain it's reticle accuracy (MOA/MIL/BDC/etc.) across the entire zoom range, whereas a SFP reticle is only accurate at a specific magnification setting.
I believe what he was referring to was the ability of a FFP to maintain it's reticle accuracy (MOA/MIL/BDC/etc.) across the entire zoom range, whereas a SFP reticle is only accurate at a specific magnification setting.
I was under the impression that if you zero it at the highest magnification, then when you reduce the magnification, the POA/POI will shift. So if you zero at 8x, when you drop it to 1x to use like a RDS, the zero would be off and you would have to train to hold over for effective use.
Just saw the email... it's called the "Razor HD GEN II-E" -- claims to be same everything as the original GenII 1-6x24, but "1/4 lb. burger patty lighter". MSRP $2k.
Jwknutson17
12-08-17, 09:33
Just saw the email... it's called the "Razor HD GEN II-E" -- claims to be same everything as the original GenII 1-6x24, but "1/4 lb. burger patty lighter". MSRP $2k.
So 4oz lighter and nothing else?... Sounds like a fail in my book. Pass.
Jwknutson17
12-08-17, 09:35
I was under the impression that if you zero it at the highest magnification, then when you reduce the magnification, the POA/POI will shift. So if you zero at 8x, when you drop it to 1x to use like a RDS, the zero would be off and you would have to train to hold over for effective use.
This is not correct. The zero is not effected through mag ranges.
looks to be out of my price range.
Beat Trash
12-08-17, 09:43
The MSRP of $1999.99 is the same price as the original Razor HD II.
So I would assume that the street price will be the same as it is on the current HD II.
So basically the same optic for the same price, but 4 oz lighter? I’m in for one.
The MSRP of $1999.99 is the same price as the original Razor HD II.
So I would assume that the street price will be the same as it is on the current HD II.
So basically the same optic for the same price, but 4 oz lighter? I’m in for one.
If that's the case, I might be also. I'm curios to see what comes out at shot 18.
Furbyballer
12-08-17, 10:38
The only thing holding the razor back was it's weight. In the 20 to 21oz range it's a no brainer now. Best in class eyebox, eye relief, decent usable simple reticles, and amazing illumination.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
It’s probably gonna be right at 20lbs..
I’m not sure if I can feel the 5g difference...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s probably gonna be right at 20lbs..
I’m not sure if I can feel the 5g difference...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You mean 20oz and 4oz?
Official Kremlin Transmission
Old Razor 1-6x weight is 25.2 oz minus 4 oz = 21.2 oz new Razor weight. In comparison the Kahles K16i is 16.9 oz or 4.3 oz lighter.
They are also coming out with two new Strike Eagle riflescopes. Also 2 MOA dot 7,000 hr (approx T1 sized) RDS
4-24x50mm and a 3-18x44mm both have the EBR-4 reticles, weight 25.6 oz and 23.9 oz
Jwknutson17
12-08-17, 11:00
I think Vortex did well by shaving weight. But if it's actually only 4 Oz lighter bringing it to 21.2 oz, it's better, but not a "sell what you got and pick this one up" kinda deal. If it was a 1-8 with the same known quality features as the vortex LPVs have at the existing weight, that would be something to talk about. I just don't see anyone selling their current 1-6 and picking this up. I do own one of the 1-6 gen2s already, among many other 1-6/8 LPVs. The Kahles and MK6 can make it to 17oz and under and still be top of the class. It's a step in the right direction but still falls short for me. Just my opinion.
Compared to the Kahles K16i, the new Razor is 4.6 oz heavier. At 1x the FOV is 11.7' less. Has anyone compared the eyebox of the two, along with the NF 1-4x?
The only thing holding the razor back was it's weight. In the 20 to 21oz range it's a no brainer now. Best in class eyebox, eye relief, decent usable simple reticles, and amazing illumination.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Agreed. That should put it only three-four ounces heavier than the K16i, but still several hundred dollars cheaper.
You mean 20oz and 4oz?
Official Kremlin Transmission
I read it wrong..lol I thought it mean 25% lighter than original weight
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is not correct. The zero is not effected through mag ranges.
So it's JUST the calculations and hold overs? If I want to hold left 3 MOA for wind, but I'm at 4x power (Scope was zeroed at 8x), then I actually have to hold at the 6MOA mark, right?
MeanCarbine
12-08-17, 12:42
From TOS.
"The lightweight 1-6 will be 21.5 oz, as compared to 25.2 on the old one. The reticle choices will be the same and the price should remain the same. -VortexSam"
4oz doesn't sound like a lot, but I can feel the difference between the 25.2oz Razor vs the 20oz Vudu when shouldering the rifle in the bedroom. But out in actual shooting, the difference kind of fades.
If I didn't already have the Razor I'd be excited for this change, but as others have said I won't be going through the trouble of ditching my old one for this one.
So it's JUST the calculations and hold overs? If I want to hold left 3 MOA for wind, but I'm at 4x power (Scope was zeroed at 8x), then I actually have to hold at the 6MOA mark, right?
You would hold half as much at 4x vs 8x. A 3 MOA hold for wind at 8x is a 1.5 MOA hold at 4x with a second focal plane reticle.
Now if they would shave 4 oz. off of the pst 1-6...
RobertTheTexan
12-09-17, 09:13
I think Vortex did well by shaving weight. But if it's actually only 4 Oz lighter bringing it to 21.2 oz, it's better, but not a "sell what you got and pick this one up" kinda deal. If it was a 1-8 with the same known quality features as the vortex LPVs have at the existing weight, that would be something to talk about. I just don't see anyone selling their current 1-6 and picking this up. I do own one of the 1-6 gen2s already, among many other 1-6/8 LPVs. The Kahles and MK6 can make it to 17oz and under and still be top of the class. It's a step in the right direction but still falls short for me. Just my opinion.
I agree. It’s been said already in a different thread but I’ll say it again. The biggest disappointment Vortex Product Development team delivered (IMO) was their pushing a 1-8 Strike Eagle in their lineup instead of taking time to develop a 1-8 in the Viper PST line. I don’t play in the $2000 optic playground with some of my brothers here, but I believe that Viper PST line is the best mid value optic on the market today. ($600-$900 range) It just seems they could have really hit a home run in the hunter/tactical market with a PST Gen 2 1-8 rather than going to the cheaper route is the Strike Eagle.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe they are starting low with the 1-8s and will gradually work their way up. maybe a pst next year or so.
Maybe they are starting low with the 1-8s and will gradually work their way up. maybe a pst next year or so.
That's what people said last year about the Strike Eagle
Vortex,
Please set up an upgrade program like Leupold that allows for scope rebuilds with the weight savings. I would gladly pay a few hundred dollars for the rebuild. Everyone keeps comparing the Razor to the Kahles, but they are hundreds of dollars cheaper and SOPMOD approved. Kahles has not met these standards to my knowledge. If it is a duty weapon, then I would go with the Vortex. I have heard of several Kahles 1-6s being returned for reticle canting issues from recoil, I have not heard the same of Razors.
Vortex,
Please set up an upgrade program like Leupold that allows for scope rebuilds with the weight savings. I would gladly pay a few hundred dollars for the rebuild. Everyone keeps comparing the Razor to the Kahles, but they are hundreds of dollars cheaper and SOPMOD approved. Kahles has not met these standards to my knowledge. If it is a duty weapon, then I would go with the Vortex. I have heard of several Kahles 1-6s being returned for reticle canting issues from recoil, I have not heard the same of Razors.
You'd probably be out the same amount if you just sold yours and bought a new one.
vicious_cb
12-09-17, 17:44
4oz doesn't sound like a lot, but I can feel the difference between the 25.2oz Razor vs the 20oz Vudu when shouldering the rifle in the bedroom. But out in actual shooting, the difference kind of fades.
If I didn't already have the Razor I'd be excited for this change, but as others have said I won't be going through the trouble of ditching my old one for this one.
Its the opposite for me, the extra weight above the bore axis gives me more noticeable overswing when transitioning targets.
Vegasshooter
12-22-17, 13:19
I agree. It’s been said already in a different thread but I’ll say it again. The biggest disappointment Vortex Product Development team delivered (IMO) was their pushing a 1-8 Strike Eagle in their lineup instead of taking time to develop a 1-8 in the Viper PST line. I don’t play in the $2000 optic playground with some of my brothers here, but I believe that Viper PST line is the best mid value optic on the market today. ($600-$900 range) It just seems they could have really hit a home run in the hunter/tactical market with a PST Gen 2 1-8 rather than going to the cheaper route is the Strike Eagle.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree with you, but from a business stand point, Vortex sells the Strike Eagles by the truckload. I would consider a PST 1-8 over a 1-6 Razor. The PST being the mid-line, has great glass. The new Gen II has damn nice glass. I have looked through one. That said, I bet Vortex sells 2 Strike Eagles for every one PST. They have to follow the market.
What's the word on the Razor 1-6 HD Gen II e? Any in stock yet? How much?
What's the word on the Razor 1-6 HD Gen II e? Any in stock yet? How much?
Same price.
FChen17213
02-16-18, 23:06
I got mine. Haven't even mounted it but it feels exactly like the old one except just a little lighter. I suspect I'd notice the weight more if I had it mounted and had to carry it for a long time. Feels very rugged and well made just like the old Razor.
FChen17213
02-16-18, 23:13
I now have the Kahles K16i and the new Razor Enhanced. The Kahles is still lighter by a pretty wide margin. I really do like both though. The Razor's quality is very good. It honestly feel just like the old Razor but a smidge lighter. Nothing is free though. I am sure something is not as robust and some material was taken out somewhere or a different material was used which I doubt.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.