View Full Version : HR38 National Reciprocity
Haven’t seen any posts on this. Looks like they are voting this week. Contact your Reps!!
So, if I’m reading this correctly, this will allow PA residents, with a valid cc permit, to carry in NYC?
Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017
This bill amends the federal criminal code to allow a qualified individual to carry a concealed handgun into or possess a concealed handgun in another state that allows individuals to carry concealed firearms.
A qualified individual must: (1) be eligible to possess, transport, or receive a firearm under federal law; (2) carry a valid photo identification document; and (3) carry a valid concealed carry permit issued by, or be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in, his or her state of residence.
Additionally, the bill specifies that a qualified individual who lawfully carries or possesses a concealed handgun in another state: (1) is not subject to the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm in a school zone, and (2) may carry or possess the concealed handgun in federally owned lands that are open to the public.
RetroRevolver77
12-05-17, 18:00
The thing is once it goes national can reps in NY and CA dictate the terms of those who are allowed to carry? That's what I worry about. I already have reciprocity in something like 40 states- the other ten I could care less about anyway. Hell I won't even go to states that are predominately democrat because I'm not interested in spending money with them.
Just make it legal.
If I can marry another man and drive a car then let me carry my legally purchased gun with my legally acquired permit.
Countless multitudes already carry guns anyways legal or not. If people are trying to be above board with it then just let it happen.
Dist. Expert 26
12-05-17, 18:49
I've read elsewhere that the NRA is trying to torpedo this bill. Anyone have insight on that?
I've read elsewhere that the NRA is trying to torpedo this bill. Anyone have insight on that?
It wouldn't surprise me.
If everyone had yay total 2nd Amendment Freedoms then the NRA would be obsolete and would have to get real jobs.
Dist. Expert 26
12-05-17, 18:55
It wouldn't surprise me.
If everyone had yay total 2nd Amendment Freedoms then the NRA would be obsolete and would have to get real jobs.
That was pretty much what the guy was getting at. I can't seem to find it again, but it had something to do with them endorsing a "fix" for the NICS system.
Apparently Feinstein and Schumer are trying to combine HR 38 with one of their gun control bills (HR 4477). If the NRA is trying to torpedo it, that's most likely why.
Apparently Feinstein and Schumer are trying to combine HR 38 with one of their gun control bills (HR 4477). If the NRA is trying to torpedo it, that's most likely why.
This, Feinstein and uncle Chucky are trying to piggy back HR4477 with HR38 as a "Fix NICS" bill that would also allow the VA and other non-judicial organizations to effectively ban people from owning firearms if they have things like PTSD etc. My explanation is simplified but the gist of the measure they are pushing. GOA had a good editorial on it.
Link to their words: https://gunowners.org/alert12012017.htm
There were other bills going through the works to accomplish this same thing, but at least two of the other bills were specifically worded so that a person didn't need to be a resident of the state that granted the permit. In other words, a resident of CA or NY could get a permit from UT or FL, and it would have to be honored in their own state.
Can't remember the name/numbers of these other versions, but I stopped hearing about them right after the Vegas thing.
I still hope this one passes. When it does, and the sky doesn't fall, then maybe we can do another one that would allow people with non-resident permits to carry at home too. This would effectively go right around the gun-banners, and end some of their tyranny.
Dist. Expert 26
12-05-17, 20:05
This, Feinstein and uncle Chucky are trying to piggy back HR4477 with HR38 as a "Fix NICS" bill that would also allow the VA and other non-judicial organizations to effectively ban people from owning firearms if they have things like PTSD etc. My explanation is simplified but the gist of the measure they are pushing. GOA had a good editorial on it.
Link to their words: https://gunowners.org/alert12012017.htm
I've read mixed reports, some saying that the NRA supports HR4477. I can't seem to turn anything up on their website about the issue.
This Bill won't help me now since I won't have a CCW permit issued by my own state, but when I love and visit my family I'll be able to lol.
I hope it passes. NJ politicians will crap themselves when everyone from Pa is carrying in NJ lol
This Bill won't help me now since I won't have a CCW permit issued by my own state, but when I love and visit my family I'll be able to lol.
I hope it passes. NJ politicians will crap themselves when everyone from Pa is carrying in NJ lol
Get a FL non-resident CC permit.
Get a FL non-resident CC permit.
Your post made me go re-read the original text of the law from post number one in this thread:
"Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017
This bill amends the federal criminal code to allow a qualified individual to carry a concealed handgun into or possess a concealed handgun in another state that allows individuals to carry concealed firearms.
A qualified individual must: (1) be eligible to possess, transport, or receive a firearm under federal law; (2) carry a valid photo identification document; and (3) carry a valid concealed carry permit issued by, or be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in, his or her state of residence.
Additionally, the bill specifies that a qualified individual who lawfully carries or possesses a concealed handgun in another state: (1) is not subject to the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm in a school zone, and (2) may carry or possess the concealed handgun in federally owned lands that are open to the public."
Specifically looking at #3: "(3) carry a valid concealed carry permit issued by, or be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in, his or her state of residence."
I am completely eligible to carry in my home state, but the county I live in refuses to issue a permit to me because they are a bunch of lefty commie A-Holes. Counties all around me and all over the state issue, but not my county. The way this bill is worded makes it sound like a person doesn't even have to have a CCW permit, but only needs to be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in their state of residence. To me, eligible = Over 21, not a felon, not under any restraining orders, not adjudicated mentally ill in a court of law. Maybe add in the requirement that some states have to take and pass a 16 hour CCW course? If I'm interpreting this correctly, any person meeting these requirements can carry concealed in any state with no permit at all if this new bill passes.
Anyone care to show me how I'm wrong? Am I missing something?
I've read elsewhere that the NRA is trying to torpedo this bill. Anyone have insight on that?
That is incorrect.
From NRA-ILA
Please Contact Your U.S. Representative! Ask him to vote for H.R. 38, the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017!
From GOA
Please click on the Take Action button to urge your Senators to oppose the "Traffic Ticket Gun Ban" and to support bringing concealed carry reciprocity bill to the floor for a vote.
Oppose S. 2135 - Traffic Ticket Gun Ban == (Rs)Cornyn, (Ds)Feinstein, Blumenthal, Murphy, Schumer
Support S. 446 - Reciprocity
That was as of last Friday.
https://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/home?4 ---- GOA makes it easy to have your voice heard.
The NRA called me yesterday asking me to call my rep to support HR38. Turns out he is a cosponsor. Join the NRA and you will get these calls as well.
Dist. Expert 26
12-05-17, 22:14
The NRA called me yesterday asking me to call my rep to support HR38. Turns out he is a cosponsor. Join the NRA and you will get these calls as well.
Yeah, I'll pass.
I'm glad they aren't actively trying to sabotage this. Expanding/recovering rights isn't really their MO.
Yeah, I'll pass.
I'm glad they aren't actively trying to sabotage this. Expanding/recovering rights isn't really their MO.
Then join GOA
Dist. Expert 26
12-05-17, 22:32
Then join GOA
Again, nah. They lost me with the endless stream of useless "they'll take yer guns!" emails.
I'll donate to the American Suppressor Association but that's it for me at this point.
Again, nah. They lost me with the endless stream of useless "they'll take yer guns!" emails.
I'll donate to the American Suppressor Association but that's it for me at this point.
Has the American Suppressor Association been repeatedly responsible for saving the 2A and gaining ground back for the 2A crowd for the last couple of decades? Has the ASA been fighting liberal gun bans all over the country for decades? When lefty gun ban after lefty gun bans fail time and time again, do the lefties blame the ASA for their failure? Does every commie politician in this country get on the tube and complain about how powerful the ASA is?
There is one organization standing between them and your guns. They are not perfect and never will be, but without them, we'd all be subjects, or in the middle of Civil War II. Sign up man. If its a money thing, I'll loan you the $35. Take as long as you want to pay me back.
Dist. Expert 26
12-05-17, 22:46
Has the American Suppressor Association been repeatedly responsible for saving the 2A and gaining ground back for the 2A crowd for the last couple of decades? Has the ASA been fighting liberal gun bans all over the country for decades? When lefty gun ban after lefty gun bans fail time and time again, do the lefties blame the ASA for their failure? Does every commie politician in this country get on the tube and complain about how powerful the ASA is?
There is one organization standing between them and your guns. They are not perfect and never will be, but without them, we'd all be subjects, or in the middle of Civil War II. Sign up man. If its a money thing, I'll loan you the $35. Take as long as you want to pay me back.
It's not a money thing. I used to be a member and got fed up with them constantly begging for more money while at the same time sending out truckloads of useless bull**it that nobody really wants.
They profit off of fear, never really making an attempt to take the offensive, because without that fear they're irrelevant.
After what they pulled with the bump stock issue I'll donate to PETA before I give them a penny.
Haven’t seen any posts on this. Looks like they are voting this week. Contact your Reps!!
So, if I’m reading this correctly, this will allow PA residents, with a valid cc permit, to carry in NYC?
When HR218 was passed, NYPD was arresting out of state LEO carrying in NYC for quite a while.
Not really a good idea to carry in NYC if you don't have a NYC carry permit (a regular New York State carry permit isn't even good enough) or aren't there on official police/government business.
Or just do like me and don't go there under any circumstances ! ;)
NYH1.
When HR218 was passed, NYPD was arresting out of state LEO carrying in NYC for quite a while.
Not really a good idea to carry in NYC if you don't have a NYC carry permit (a regular New York State carry permit isn't even good enough) or aren't there on official police/government business.
Or just do like me and don't go there under any circumstances ! ;)
Oh, but there is no fun in that. I want to LEGALLY carry right under their noses knowing they hate it and there's not a damn thing they can do about it. I was in NYC last week. BLECHHHH! That place is just awful. Drove upstate to a little town near Albany to visit a friend and it was gorgeous. Picturesque. The air was fresh and clean and it just felt peaceful.
Sometimes I have to travel to areas that I don't really want to go to for business. I could turn down the work and make no money, but that won't last long. The idea, for me, is that law abiding citizens should be able to exercise their rights EVERYWHERE in our country. Even in libtard cities that I would prefer to avoid. My job requires me to travel all over the country. I should be able to carry all over the country. Legally. Whether the scum bags running the city think so or not.
Has the American Suppressor Association been repeatedly responsible for saving the 2A and gaining ground back for the 2A crowd for the last couple of decades? Has the ASA been fighting liberal gun bans all over the country for decades? When lefty gun ban after lefty gun bans fail time and time again, do the lefties blame the ASA for their failure? Does every commie politician in this country get on the tube and complain about how powerful the ASA is?
There is one organization standing between them and your guns. They are not perfect and never will be, but without them, we'd all be subjects, or in the middle of Civil War II. Sign up man.
I'm kind of between you and DistEx on this, I belong, but asked them to quit calling, so far they have.
If its a money thing, I'll loan you the $35. Take as long as you want to pay me back.
This is stand up, though. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Oh, but there is no fun in that. I want to LEGALLY carry right under their noses knowing they hate it and there's not a damn thing they can do about it. I was in NYC last week. BLECHHHH! That place is just awful. Drove upstate to a little town near Albany to visit a friend and it was gorgeous. Picturesque. The air was fresh and clean and it just felt peaceful.
Sometimes I have to travel to areas that I don't really want to go to for business. I could turn down the work and make no money, but that won't last long. The idea, for me, is that law abiding citizens should be able to exercise their rights EVERYWHERE in our country. Even in libtard cities that I would prefer to avoid. My job requires me to travel all over the country. I should be able to carry all over the country. Legally. Whether the scum bags running the city think so or not.
I'm about 100 miles west of Albany. Up State New York is a really nice place. It's the NYC/Long Island area that drags us down. It's mostly red north of Westchester and Rockland Counties.
I agree, we should all be able to carry everywhere we go. However, my New York carry permit doesn't allow me carry in NYC. BUT....if you have a NYC carry permit, you can carry in the whole state?? :confused: They do what they want in NYC. They didn't care that HR218 allowed LEO's to carry in every state with their departments consent (however that worked). They arrested them and it cost them a lot of money in legal fee's to get out of something that wasn't even illegal to begin with.
Been here my whole life and never been to NYC....don't plan on going either.
NYH1.
Currently the NRA supports HR38... it is all over their Facebook page.
I admit to keeping my NRA up solely for some member perks and American Rifleman, but the NRA's job is to keep the NRA in business.
They are a bit fair-weather for my liking. I wish they put the money they use spamming me with junkmail into trying to get laws reversed/repealed.
The AWB was a lucky break. Had it not sunset the NRA would have been all "gee shucks. Donate $$$ to say 'Yes, I stand with Wayne."
It's a business.
Get a FL non-resident CC permit.
I have Florida and New Hampshire, but the law will only allow you to carry in your state using a permit issued by your state. Non resident permits don't work. I believe Will pointed this out. There was an amendment to allow for non resident permits to be used in your state but it was eliminated in committee.
NRA is pushing this bill, as of 2 hours ago. They seem to be completely unaware of what Feinstein and Schumer are trying to do.
GOA is opposing, on the basis that it is better to let the bill die since it is being meddled with, than to end up with more gun control as a result of passing national reciprocity.
I admit to keeping my NRA up solely for some member perks and American Rifleman, but the NRA's job is to keep the NRA in business.
They are a bit fair-weather for my liking. I wish they put the money they use spamming me with junkmail into trying to get laws reversed/repealed.
The AWB was a lucky break. Had it not sunset the NRA would have been all "gee shucks. Donate $$$ to say 'Yes, I stand with Wayne."
It's a business.
Is it a business? I think so. But at least part of their business is combating lefty commies who are trying really really hard to disarm us all and cripple our ability to defend ourselves and oppose them. They've put a stop the commie shenanigans countless times in recent decades, and the best indicator that they are successfully doing this is the volume with which said commies complain about the "powerful NRA" preventing them from passing all their "common sense gun laws".
They need money to fight our fight and they've resorted to some common marketing tactics to get our money. I find it distasteful, but a necessary evil. I don't have time to go to Washington D.C. or my state capitol and make a career out of exposing their lies and stopping their proposed legislation, so I am very appreciative that someone else is willing to do it for me for a measly $35 a year. As I stated earlier, they are not perfect, and I don't agree with every thing they do every time, but is there someone else doing it better than them? Got a better option? If not, then we ALL need to join up and donate. I find it appalling that there are only 5 million NRA members in a country of 150 million gun owners where our politicians are trying their darndest to disarm us like the rest of the world. If we could get just half the gun owners in this country to join up, we'd landslide every election, shut down every anti-gun bill, end the NFA and GCA, and have Constitutional Carry in every state and city. Can someone explain to me why more gun owners don't join the NRA? Judging by the panic buying at every presidential election, the majority of gun owners seem to understand what is at stake and what is happening, so why not fight it and put a stop to it with a simple, cheap, NRA membership?
The tree of liberty must occasionally be fertilized with the blood of patriots and tyrants… and with a little money donated to the people fighting your fight for you.
For those of you that want to support the big names ... NRA, GOA, etc.. but get too much email.
Every single email program worth it's salt has tools within it that allow you to direct where the mail goes and what gets seen.
If you will look under Tools or Options or whatever similar menu you may have. Look for RULES or some siimilar name. also learn how to make Folders.
EX: NRA-ILA email.
Make a folder named NRA-ILA
Now go to RULES. There will be many options in a logical order, usually via dropbox selections.
So you first choice may be <If FROM IS:> you select or place NRA-ILA
Next is ask what you want to do. You can select <MOVE TO FOLDER:> Again type in or select eh NRA-ILA folder you just made.
So now if you do noting else every email you get from NRA-ILA will go to that folder. You could then set that folder to delete messages over a week old or other such options. You can open the folder and read anything you want or simply never open it.
So basically you never have to actually see any mail from NRA-ILA but as you little folder message count icon goes from say 5 to 30 in a week you will know something is up and maybe you want to read a message.
This is a just a dead simple example. You can get much more complex if need be. But in this day to claim you get too much email is sort of akin to using your arm for turn signals when you drive a car. You need not see any of that mail if that's your choice AND you can see if something is going on.... again much like a gauge on a car... is your engine over heating? Is NRA-ILA trying to warn you to get active.
Or you can keep fooling yourself into thinking inaction brings results and simply place the blame on someone else when things don't go your way.
I've been a life member of the NRA for a long time, even went to D.C. to lobby on a bill on their dime once. I like some of what they do and how they do it; other stuff, not so much. But they are the 500 pound gorilla and on our side almost all the time. Without them we'd be down to single shot air rifles kept in government armories.
We've got too much on our plate to be real fussy about details.
I've been a life member of the NRA for a long time, even went to D.C. to lobby on a bill on their dime once. I like some of what they do and how they do it; other stuff, not so much. But they are the 500 pound gorilla and on our side almost all the time. Without them we'd be down to single shot air rifles kept in government armories.
We've got too much on our plate to be real fussy about details.
Liberals fear the NRA. They are taught from birth that the NRA is bad juju. It's like Godwins 2nd Law. If you get into a conversation with one, before very long the NRA will be mentioned. Even Bozo... I mean Bono says he wants a Liberal organization as powerful as the NRA.
For those that don't like certain things the NRA does. Call, write, and email them. Let them know. Tell them you want more aggressive action and a more positive presence. Don't fight our own defenses.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-06-17, 11:21
Specifically looking at #3: "(3) carry a valid concealed carry permit issued by, or be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in, his or her state of residence."
Is this to cover states with Constitutional Carry? It would be odd that you could carry in the other 49, but not in your state.
What about places like Illinois with their FOID system? I still don’t understand how you can visit (stay) in Illinois with a gun and not get arrested. Traveling through should be protected, but even then they got a guy with guns in his car from Wis and charged him with FOID violations. They need to have something about not having to be in complaince with gun and owner registration laws. This will drive the NYS people nuts if FL snowbirds are living for months out of the year and carrying in NYC....
On the mental health add-on, I’d take a page from the Dems. Get passed what you want even with baggage and then fight the baggage in court to get rid of it.
From NRA-ILA today....
Your fundamental right to keep and bear arms should not end at the state line. This bill would ensure that law-abiding citizens do not lose the ability to protect themselves when they travel from state to state. And it would ensure that anti-gun jurisdictions do not harass travelers for exercising their constitutional rights.
H.R. 38 DOES NOT:
Allow prohibited persons to carry firearms;
Create a federal licensing or registration system;
Establish national standards for concealed carry; or
Override state laws governing the time, place and manner of carrying concealed.
Again, please IMMEDIATELY contact your U.S. Representative at (202) 225-2815 and via email, and urge him/her to vote for H.R. 38 on Wednesday, December 6!
Override state laws governing the time, place and manner of carrying concealed.
This portion is troubling and makes no sense. Isn't this ENTIRE bill all about "overriding" state laws prohibiting concealed carry? If this portion pertains to details like carrying in restaurants that serve alcohol, churches, or colleges, we are in for a rough ride. While I realize it will be our responsibility to know and follow all these technicalities from state to state, there is no possible way that the majority of CCW holders will do so.
I see another NRA sponsored FOPA type law in our future if this gets passed. A blanket law to protect law abiding citizens from all these state to state minor differences and technicalities while legally carrying concealed.
This portion is troubling and makes no sense. Isn't this ENTIRE bill all about "overriding" state laws prohibiting concealed carry? If this portion pertains to details like carrying in restaurants that serve alcohol, churches, or colleges, we are in for a rough ride. While I realize it will be our responsibility to know and follow all these technicalities from state to state, there is no possible way that the majority of CCW holders will do so.
I see another NRA sponsored FOPA type law in our future if this gets passed. A blanket law to protect law abiding citizens from all these state to state minor differences and technicalities while legally carrying concealed.
I agree, but I live in a constitutional carry state, I want constitutional carry in all 50 states. We still have restrictions on where you can carry in our state, and I support eliminating all of them.
This portion is troubling and makes no sense. Isn't this ENTIRE bill all about "overriding" state laws prohibiting concealed carry? If this portion pertains to details like carrying in restaurants that serve alcohol, churches, or colleges, we are in for a rough ride. While I realize it will be our responsibility to know and follow all these technicalities from state to state, there is no possible way that the majority of CCW holders will do so.
I see another NRA sponsored FOPA type law in our future if this gets passed. A blanket law to protect law abiding citizens from all these state to state minor differences and technicalities while legally carrying concealed.
I don't think you are reading that right. I think this refers to things like bars or churches. Some states allow carrying in bars like PA, some say no-go like TX. This would mean that a TX resident going to PA would be able to carry in a bar and a PA resident in TX would not be able to carry in a bar.
What this law allows is for someone with a PA permit to carry in NJ.
Your post made me go re-read the original text of the law from post number one in this thread:
"Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017
This bill amends the federal criminal code to allow a qualified individual to carry a concealed handgun into or possess a concealed handgun in another state that allows individuals to carry concealed firearms.
A qualified individual must: (1) be eligible to possess, transport, or receive a firearm under federal law; (2) carry a valid photo identification document; and (3) carry a valid concealed carry permit issued by, or be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in, his or her state of residence.
Additionally, the bill specifies that a qualified individual who lawfully carries or possesses a concealed handgun in another state: (1) is not subject to the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm in a school zone, and (2) may carry or possess the concealed handgun in federally owned lands that are open to the public."
Specifically looking at #3: "(3) carry a valid concealed carry permit issued by, or be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in, his or her state of residence."
I am completely eligible to carry in my home state, but the county I live in refuses to issue a permit to me because they are a bunch of lefty commie A-Holes. Counties all around me and all over the state issue, but not my county. The way this bill is worded makes it sound like a person doesn't even have to have a CCW permit, but only needs to be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in their state of residence. To me, eligible = Over 21, not a felon, not under any restraining orders, not adjudicated mentally ill in a court of law. Maybe add in the requirement that some states have to take and pass a 16 hour CCW course? If I'm interpreting this correctly, any person meeting these requirements can carry concealed in any state with no permit at all if this new bill passes.
Anyone care to show me how I'm wrong? Am I missing something?
So it does NOT allow someone from TN to carry in NYC (judging from that bolded part). Is that correct? If that is indeed right then what the hell good does this bill do?
PrivateCitizen
12-06-17, 14:32
Presently reciprocity ebbs and flows between states and conditions and can be somewhat vague/confusing for some.
In this case, centralizing (*shudder*) the legal framework removes that weird gotcha where something like: as an Idaho CCW I need to get a Utah CCW to carry in Nevada or Oregon.
Or, to be clumsily blunt, the need for 'Out of State' CCWs becomes unnecessary (as far as I can tell).
BoringGuy45
12-06-17, 14:34
From NRA-ILA today....
Your fundamental right to keep and bear arms should not end at the state line. This bill would ensure that law-abiding citizens do not lose the ability to protect themselves when they travel from state to state. And it would ensure that anti-gun jurisdictions do not harass travelers for exercising their constitutional rights.
H.R. 38 DOES NOT:
Allow prohibited persons to carry firearms;
Create a federal licensing or registration system;
Establish national standards for concealed carry; or
Override state laws governing the time, place and manner of carrying concealed.
Again, please IMMEDIATELY contact your U.S. Representative at (202) 225-2815 and via email, and urge him/her to vote for H.R. 38 on Wednesday, December 6!
That will be an issue in states like Massachusetts. MA's permit system, to no surprise, is completely screwed up. You have to have a Class A permit to even own a gun capable of carrying "high capacity" magazines, and some police chiefs refuse to issue Class A permits. If you have a Class B permit, you may only own revolvers or guns not capable of being loaded with 10+ round feeding devices. You also can't take the gun out of your home for any reason whatsoever. If you are issued a Class A permit, it can be revoked for just about any reason including none at all, at which point you'd have to turn in any weapon considered "high capacity"...and with no compensation. If you have a Class A, they can restrict your carry to things like hunting, target shooting, or employment.
So there's a whole gauntlet of laws that one would have to wade through in places like that.
I have Florida and New Hampshire, but the law will only allow you to carry in your state using a permit issued by your state. Non resident permits don't work. I believe Will pointed this out. There was an amendment to allow for non resident permits to be used in your state but it was eliminated in committee.
But then there is the issue, and mea culpa if this been brought up, but if I edcing a glock 19 in NJ are my gold dots still illegal?
But then there is the issue, and mea culpa if this been brought up, but if I edcing a glock 19 in NJ are my gold dots still illegal?
As I read it, yes.
However, NY allows cc, it’s just near impossible to get, so we could carry there, but would have to follow all laws- at least that’s my interpretation.
This law would make your ccw permit from home-state act as a ccw permit from whatever state you are in, so if I’m NJ, it’s the same as if you were a NJ resident with NJ ccw. Again, my take, not a lawyer.
As I read it, yes.
However, NY allows cc, it’s just near impossible to get, so we could carry there, but would have to follow all laws- at least that’s my interpretation.
This law would make your ccw permit from home-state act as a ccw permit from whatever state you are in, so if I’m NJ, it’s the same as if you were a NJ resident with NJ ccw. Again, my take, not a lawyer.
That was my understanding as well.
Regardless I think even if we get national reciprocacy passed I'll hold off on going into either nj or ny for about a year until the kinks get worked out, rather not be a test case.
As I read it, yes.
However, NY allows cc, it’s just near impossible to get, so we could carry there, but would have to follow all laws- at least that’s my interpretation.
This law would make your ccw permit from home-state act as a ccw permit from whatever state you are in, so if I’m NJ, it’s the same as if you were a NJ resident with NJ ccw. Again, my take, not a lawyer.
In NYC and the surrounding area's it's near impossible to get a carry permit. However, upstate counties differ greatly. Some are basically like shall issue and others are harder. Depends on the county.
It's not an ideal system by any stretch. However, there is a HUGE difference between the NYC/Long Island metro area and the rest of New York State. North of Westchester and Rockland Counties the differences are very profound. They just have the numbers to run the state like Chicago does Illinois.
NYH1.
But then there is the issue, and mea culpa if this been brought up, but if I edcing a glock 19 in NJ are my gold dots still illegal?
It depends. If ur going from ur house to the range or from the gun shop home then they are legal. If ur carrying from your house to the store, then illegal.
Your magazines over 15rds also illegal.
It's like traffic laws. My DL is valid in NY but I can't make a right turn on red in Manhattan like I can in NJ. Highway speed limits change between states as well.
Earlier today, a person that I was working with complained that a 50 states legal way to comply with this would be a 7 round weapon without HP ammo that didn't "print" in anyway, and if you are presented into a situation that involves serious bodily injury or death is to not use it and run away, etc..
There really isn't a counter argument for that from what I've seen so far. For 50 states, legally then you must comply to the lowest common denominator for all laws presented to them.
Not really a place that I would like to be in. It is a forward step though, not a big leap.
If this passes you can guaran-freaking-tee that any states/municipalities who are butthurt over it will be assholes to anyone they "catch" CCW'ing in their jurisdictions. The old cop saying "You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride" comes to mind. Not to mention just like Trump's EO's on restricting immigration that there will be endless court battles and you will be caught up in the middle of it (guilty no less) until the smoke clears.
If this passes you can guaran-freaking-tee that any states/municipalities who are butthurt over it will be assholes to anyone they "catch" CCW'ing in their jurisdictions. The old cop saying "You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride" comes to mind. Not to mention just like Trump's EO's on restricting immigration that there will be endless court battles and you will be caught up in the middle of it (guilty no less) until the smoke clears.
I just wish to add to this thst if some of these heroes went after the Fellas toting illegal heaters with some of the same passion as Joe Sixpack OCing at the park then the crime rate would go down.
I already know the answer why that doesn't happen but in a perfect world.....
There was a time in this country when all you needed was a 1911 in .38 Super, a Smith Registered Magnum 4", maaaybe a Winchester 1897 and a Remington Model 8 in the trunk if things got all Hollywood, an old flashlight, a thick hickory stick, and a V8 Ford and affairs got sorted they did.
Looks like it passed the House 231:197
ONTO THE SENATE!
So it does NOT allow someone from TN to carry in NYC (judging from that bolded part). Is that correct? If that is indeed right then what the hell good does this bill do?
Although it does not specifically say it, I assume the text you bolded is in reference to the "shall issue" and "may issue" distinction. If I understand the text correctly any state that is a "may issue", like CA or NY, would have to honor permits from other states. Lots of people in CA have CCW permits and they are good for the whole state. Only a few counties here refuse to issue them to the general population. States like CT, WI and D.C. would not have to allow CCW from other states, sine they are "no issue" states.
Although it does not specifically say it, I assume the text you bolded is in reference to the "shall issue" and "may issue" distinction. If I understand the text correctly any state that is a "may issue", like CA or NY, would have to honor permits from other states. Lots of people in CA have CCW permits and they are good for the whole state. Only a few counties here refuse to issue them to the general population. States like CT, WI and D.C. would not have to allow CCW from other states, sine they are "no issue" states.
Does my state, TN, have to honor a marriage license issued in CT, WI, or D.C. for a gay couple or a driver's license? Well then, only seems fair right? (not arguing, just trying to make a point)
Although it does not specifically say it, I assume the text you bolded is in reference to the "shall issue" and "may issue" distinction. If I understand the text correctly any state that is a "may issue", like CA or NY, would have to honor permits from other states. Lots of people in CA have CCW permits and they are good for the whole state. Only a few counties here refuse to issue them to the general population. States like CT, WI and D.C. would not have to allow CCW from other states, sine they are "no issue" states.
CT is May Issue, WI is shall issue. Not sure of D.C. but I could have sworn that the last court decision made it Shall/May issue.
There are no states that are "no issue" anymore.
Diamondback
12-06-17, 20:24
Not so good with the Feinstein-Schumer-Cornhole jigger-NICS bill piggybacked on, though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
Yeah, I'll pass.
I'm glad they aren't actively trying to sabotage this. Expanding/recovering rights isn't really their MO.
You’re part of the problem.
Dist. Expert 26
12-06-17, 21:17
You’re part of the problem.
K
Your opinion is of no value to me.
Coal Dragger
12-06-17, 21:33
Earlier today, a person that I was working with complained that a 50 states legal way to comply with this would be a 7 round weapon without HP ammo that didn't "print" in anyway, and if you are presented into a situation that involves serious bodily injury or death is to not use it and run away, etc..
There really isn't a counter argument for that from what I've seen so far. For 50 states, legally then you must comply to the lowest common denominator for all laws presented to them.
Not really a place that I would like to be in. It is a forward step though, not a big leap.
For those places with stupid ass magazine capacity restrictions like 7 rounds, and no hollowpoint ammo, a solid case could be made for carrying an L frame 7 shot S&W or new 7 shot Ruger GP100 in .357 Magnum running some kind of jacketed soft point fast enough to get some expansion regardless of not being a hollow-point. Or a large frame big bore 6 shot. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to get hammered with a 240 hard cast lead semi wad-cutter going 1200fps or more.
Then there’s always the .45 ACP and 230gr ball.
For those places with stupid ass magazine capacity restrictions like 7 rounds, and no hollowpoint ammo, a solid case could be made for carrying an L frame 7 shot S&W or new 7 shot Ruger GP100 in .357 Magnum running some kind of jacketed soft point fast enough to get some expansion regardless of not being a hollow-point. Or a large frame big bore 6 shot. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to get hammered with a 240 hard cast lead semi wad-cutter going 1200fps or more.
Then there’s always the .45 ACP and 230gr ball.
147gr g2?
Not so good with the Feinstein-Schumer-Cornhole jigger-NICS bill piggybacked on, though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
Proof? I did not see anywhere that it did.
Edit, it was combined, but not seeing anything bad with those additions (summery, no verbiage available).
In case anyone is interested in the tally.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171207/030b11664b255f33a1fbc7d476859424.jpg
Diamondback
12-06-17, 22:39
Edit, it was combined, but not seeing anything bad with those additions (summery, no verbiage available).
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/4477/text
CT is May Issue, WI is shall issue. Not sure of D.C. but I could have sworn that the last court decision made it Shall/May issue.
There are no states that are "no issue" anymore.
My apologies. I quickly did an internet search to find the remaining "no issue" states, and the website listed those. Please pardon my mistake.
Does my state, TN, have to honor a marriage license issued in CT, WI, or D.C. for a gay couple or a driver's license? Well then, only seems fair right? (not arguing, just trying to make a point)
Fair? You are kidding, right? If fair had anything to do with any of this, we wouldn't need all these stupid laws.
I'm sure you already know that I see this issue the same way you do. Constitutional carry everywhere in the country for all law abiding citizens over 21 who are not mentally ill. No permits. No BS from NYC, San Fran, Jersey, Chicago or any of the other lefty controlled cities. In the mean time, HR 38 is a step in the right direction.
Coal Dragger
12-07-17, 01:34
147gr g2?
Well under normal circumstances yes. But in jurisdictions where hollow points are verboten, no.
My apologies. I quickly did an internet search to find the remaining "no issue" states, and the website listed those. Please pardon my mistake.
No worries sir :-)
Well under normal circumstances yes. But in jurisdictions where hollow points are verboten, no.
I thought it was specifically not a hollow point?
Critical duty?
Anyone weigh in on hr4477? I see a lot of “it’s bad” but the wording doesn’t seem bad enough to offset the ground gained with hr38. Thoughts?
PatrioticDisorder
12-07-17, 05:43
I'm about 100 miles west of Albany. Up State New York is a really nice place.
Utica is an absolute shithole.
This legislation is a major expansion of gun rights, despite the paranoia over fixNICS. It will allow me to carry to commie states when I am basically forced to travel there for medical conferences.
For those places with stupid ass magazine capacity restrictions like 7 rounds, and no hollowpoint ammo, a solid case could be made for carrying an L frame 7 shot S&W or new 7 shot Ruger GP100 in .357 Magnum running some kind of jacketed soft point fast enough to get some expansion regardless of not being a hollow-point. Or a large frame big bore 6 shot. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to get hammered with a 240 hard cast lead semi wad-cutter going 1200fps or more.
Then there’s always the .45 ACP and 230gr ball.
What about those funky machined bullets or whatever? I think Lehigh Defense makes them. Then there's the Power Ball and Bulldog....I think that's what they're called. Kinda like a FMJ that flattens instead of opening. Not sure how great these options are but they're there
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sundance435
12-07-17, 07:44
Anyone here represented by one of the R "no" votes? Massey has already said it was because of the NICS pairing, and I know King is an anti, but what about the other ones?
I remember reading an article a few years ago about how to get a carry permit in NYC. I can't find it now but basically you fill out a ton of paperwork, pay a none refundable fee of $5000 ( yes in the thousands) and go for an interview to prove why you need one. At which point if you aren't a politician, celebrity or wealthy you'll be denied
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What about those funky machined bullets or whatever? I think Lehigh Defense makes them. Then there's the Power Ball and Bulldog....I think that's what they're called. Kinda like a FMJ that flattens instead of opening. Not sure how great these options are but they're there
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I thought powrball was like a Crital Defense loading? Been so damn long since I even screwed with them though. The other loading I think is the Guard Dog loading.
Honest, if I were restricted to none JHP I'd probably revert to a FMJ loading like Lawman or something. If nothing else I could train my ass off on it and I better damn well know how it will shoot if that is the case. No worries bout under penertration either.
I know, whole other discussion.
Anyone here represented by one of the R "no" votes? Massey has already said it was because of the NICS pairing, and I know King is an anti, but what about the other ones?
My representative is a Dem. Voted NO as to be expected. Two Republicans voted NO in NJ, two voted AYE. Really frustrating.
I thought powrball was like a Crital Defense loading? Been so damn long since I even screwed with them though. The other loading I think is the Guard Dog loading.
Honest, if I were restricted to none JHP I'd probably revert to a FMJ loading like Lawman or something. If nothing else I could train my ass off on it and I better damn well know how it will shoot if that is the case. No worries bout under penertration either.
I know, whole other discussion.Yep guard dog.
Never messed with Powerball (or guard dog) but I thought the idea behind it was that it will feed into older handguns which don't function well with standard HP ammo..
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You guys worrying about what you will and will not be able to do can relax.
No way the Senate will give up 60 votes.
You guys worrying about what you will and will not be able to do can relax.
No way the Senate will give up 60 votes.
Suspend the rules... never mind... Didn't the tax bill pass with a simple majority?
Dist. Expert 26
12-07-17, 10:31
I'm gonna make a prediction-
If this bill looks like it's going to pass, a CCW holder will just happen to kill a bunch of people with their legally carried pistol.
Doc Safari
12-07-17, 10:32
I'm gonna make a prediction-
If this bill looks like it's going to pass, a CCW holder will just happen to kill a bunch of people with their legally carried pistol.
He gets it.
Utica is an absolute shithole.
This legislation is a major expansion of gun rights, despite the paranoia over fixNICS. It will allow me to carry to commie states when I am basically forced to travel there for medical conferences.
I'm in the Syracuse "area". About 125 ± a few miles west of Albany, my bad. You're right Utica is a shithole. However, just north of Utica starts the foothills of the Adirondacks. Which is a really nice area.
I agree that this legislation is a major expansion of gun rights. However, nobody forces any of us to travel anywhere.
NYH1.
I'm gonna make a prediction-
If this bill looks like it's going to pass, a CCW holder will just happen to kill a bunch of people with their legally carried pistol.
2 dead + gunman in a school shooting in NM today. Wonder if the perp had a CCW.
2 dead + gunman in a school shooting in NM today. Wonder if the perp had a CCW.
I dunno. I wish they'd start revoking the CCWs that all these teenybopper Fellas and illegal aliens running dope seem to have who commit all these violent murders.
Obviously that is sarcasm at the whole folly of it all. A slight anarchist streak wishes they would go to national constitutional carry.
I wouldnt do it now but as a younger man if I pinched someone with a revoked license I would ask "How did you do that?"
"Do what?"
"Get the car to start."
"Huh?!"
"Yeah, the car isn't supposed to start if you don't have a valid license"
".....Really?!"
"Yep"
"Maaaaan...."
Like you just explained String Theory to them.
Granted they were high and wasted or had no education and folks were starting to ask how to make sure their car would start when/if they got their license back.
And these people have already bred more than anyone else here.
Dig on that
sundance435
12-07-17, 12:44
Suspend the rules... never mind... Didn't the tax bill pass with a simple majority?
That was budgetary reconciliation, which is different under the current rules. McConnell could unilaterally amend the cloture rules to allow a simple majority for all votes, but it won't happen for something like this. Important to keep in mind that there is zero Constitutional basis for the 60 vote threshold on most bills - it's just a product of Senate rules.
Diamondback
12-07-17, 13:55
I dunno. I wish they'd start revoking the CCWs that all these teenybopper Fellas and illegal aliens running dope seem to have who commit all these violent murders.
Obviously that is sarcasm at the whole folly of it all. A slight anarchist streak wishes they would go to national constitutional carry.
I wouldnt do it now but as a younger man if I pinched someone with a revoked license I would ask "How did you do that?"
"Do what?"
"Get the car to start."
"Huh?!"
"Yeah, the car isn't supposed to start if you don't have a valid license"
".....Really?!"
"Yep"
"Maaaaan...."
Like you just explained String Theory to them.
Granted they were high and wasted or had no education and folks were starting to ask how to make sure their car would start when/if they got their license back.
And these people have already bred more than anyone else here.
Dig on that
FF, you remind me of some of the cops I ran with in college--serious about their trade, but not above having a little harmless fun with it once in a while. Like when somebody was being stupid on the range, teeing them up to shoot against "the blind kid," not mentioning that the heavy dark-tinted polarized lenses are so that I *can* see, not because I can't... between me and various ladies from the college I brought with me, Dumb-Ass Bubbas kept my buddies and me pretty well fed because the usual stakes on such challenges were "loser buys the burritos for *everybody.* I'm not a particularly good shot, but I never had to take the Walk of Shame and go buy... :D
I miss those fellas... hope they're doing well, wherever they are now.
Diamondback
12-07-17, 13:59
That was budgetary reconciliation, which is different under the current rules. McConnell could unilaterally amend the cloture rules to allow a simple majority for all votes, but it won't happen for something like this. Important to keep in mind that there is zero Constitutional basis for the 60 vote threshold on most bills - it's just a product of Senate rules.
On the upside, Stewart Smalley means -1 to the Opposition until the replacement's appointed... who'll be just as vile and partisan, but wrapped in a better "Minnesota Nice" package like Klobuchar.
CleverNickname
12-07-17, 18:46
On the upside, Stewart Smalley means -1 to the Opposition until the replacement's appointed... who'll be just as vile and partisan, but wrapped in a better "Minnesota Nice" package like Klobuchar.
He hasn't resigned yet. He just announced that he will resign at some point in the future.
Diamondback
12-07-17, 18:48
He hasn't resigned yet. He just announced that he will resign at some point in the future.
True... just pointing out as soon as his ass is out the door, there may be a Window of Opportunity to exploit.
Betcha he's waiting until he knows who the replacement is and won't drop the hammer unless it's someone he approves of...
http://freebeacon.com/issues/national-reciprocity-bill-will-apply-non-resident-gun-carry-permits/
Rep. Richard Hudson (R., N.C.) clarified on Wednesday that his national concealed carry reciprocity bill would apply to permits issued by states to non-residents.
"My legislative intent is to ensure a non-resident carry permit is recognized, and I've confirmed this with legislative counsel and Judiciary Committee staff," Hudson said.
If this is true and it passes the Senate, HAPPY DAYS!
Don't forget your traffic tickets
"And you probably also know that “Fix NICS” would require that the rolls of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, and ObamaCare be trolled for recipients with PTSD, ADHD, or Alzheimer's -- that is, people who have had guardians appointed.***
What you may not know is that the SECOND LARGEST CATEGORY of prohibited persons is “fugitives from justice” -- and that a good portion of these are Americans who have UNPAID TRAFFIC TICKETS.*"
https://www.gunowners.org/alert12012017.htm
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Yeah, that Cornhole guy must really be a piece of work. When you find yourself supporting a bill that has Schumer and Feinstein on it and it's about guns... you know beyond a doubt it's a bad situation.
to have an "R" by your name at the same time is an absolute joke.
Folks, the NRA is playing us for fools again.
Why would so many so called conservative Congressmen vote yes on a combined bill for concealed carry reciprocity if it contained a "poison pill" gun control bill that throws $625 million at an already broken NICS system?
Here's your answer. Apparently the NRA is strong-arming the Congressmen into supporting the combined bill and essentially threatening their NRA rating if they don't vote 'yes'.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171208/b372abc36df8855f31c554125a2a7a87.jpg
PatrioticDisorder
12-08-17, 17:25
Folks, the NRA is playing us for fools again.
Why would so many so called conservative Congressmen vote yes on a combined bill for concealed carry reciprocity if it contained a "poison pill" gun control bill that throws $625 million at an already broken NICS system?
Here's your answer. Apparently the NRA is strong-arming the Congressmen into supporting the combined bill and essentially threatening their NRA rating if they don't vote 'yes'.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171208/b372abc36df8855f31c554125a2a7a87.jpg
fixNICS doesn't prohibit anyone who is not already prohibited, it's amazing the paranoia I am seeing on the right with this issue. This is the kind of paranoia the left demonstrated after GEOTUS Trump was elected.
fixNICS doesn't prohibit anyone who is not already prohibited, it's amazing the paranoia I am seeing on the right with this issue. This is the kind of paranoia the left demonstrated after GEOTUS Trump was elected.We'll see how you feel about the bills if and when reciprocity fails to pass but the $625 million NICS bill passes because RINOs are weak and are really fine without getting reciprocity. Then the NRA can blame Democrats when the NRA helped sabotage it from the beginning.
[emoji6]
Serious question. Where is the over half a billion dollars for fixNICS supposed to come from?
Dist. Expert 26
12-08-17, 20:36
Folks, the NRA is playing us for fools again.
Why would so many so called conservative Congressmen vote yes on a combined bill for concealed carry reciprocity if it contained a "poison pill" gun control bill that throws $625 million at an already broken NICS system?
Here's your answer. Apparently the NRA is strong-arming the Congressmen into supporting the combined bill and essentially threatening their NRA rating if they don't vote 'yes'.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171208/b372abc36df8855f31c554125a2a7a87.jpg
Shhhh
You can't question the almighty NRA here. It's a very sensitive topic.
For real though, this is case in point why I refuse to give them a dime.
titsonritz
11-27-18, 23:54
For all the good it will do...
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/11/national-concealed-handgun-carry-reciprocity-last-chance/#axzz5Y6f7PZmR
Dream on......
..... Jeff Flake. Will do anything to piss off Trump and side with the other 10 Dems that will vote NO.
It would be nice if Grassley would give us this on his way out but Flake will kill it just for spite.
Plus, even if he did let it clear that committee ... somebody... I don't know who... but somebody would pull a McCain once the tally neared 49
Plus it's the holidays, they need to go Christmas shopping.
CC Rep will never happen. It's a distraction.
Dream on......
..... Jeff Flake. Will do anything to piss off Trump and side with the other 10 Dems that will vote NO.
It would be nice if Grassley would give us this on his way out but Flake will kill it just for spite.
Plus, even if he did let it clear that committee ... somebody... I don't know who... but somebody would pull a McCain once the tally neared 49
Plus it's the holidays, they need to go Christmas shopping.
CC Rep will never happen. It's a distraction.
This is the sad truth. They had two years, and pissed it all away. Again. Neither side of the aisle wants us to have it, because that would be the first step in them admitting that they are wrong in promoting gun control and that gun control doesn't work. They can't have the workers concealed carrying in the Politburu's city you know...
The only positive changes I can foresee would be suppressor oriented. Even that would likely only happen as part of a compromise. The irony that is the suppressor regulation. It doesn't even fit the Lefts narrative. I guess they figure a multi-gun murderer is going to go out and spend a few thousand bucks, create a larger visual profile to conceal, and once they start shooting in a crowd, the stampede of screaming people will also be silenced.
But... they will put forth more death will occur if "silencers" were legal so they get to use that as a bargaining chip..... and many on the Right will buy into it. So something like a UBC + Suppressors off NFA list type deal. Still will be classified as a firearm. ... and I'm not even sure what the implications are when they start messing around with NFA regulations.
Hell, Virginia still outlaws switchblade knives unless you can prove you belong to a certain class of citizen. Politicians do not and will not take up their time to reverse those insane type laws. Those type laws are like a little pot of gold in bargaining power for them. They never know when they might come in handy so they keep them. Better to have and not need than to return possession to the rightful owner.
Whatever minuscule chance nationwide reciprocity had died forever in Las Vegas.
I'll never happen. HPA will never happen. Removing the sporting clause will never ever happen.
Guess what did happen though..... I was listening to drive time radio this afternoon and our local guy is saying the Bump Stock deal is ready to be signed and it's a "Turn Them In or Destroy" deal.
So he asked people to call in and comment on two aspects.... do you think it's a slipper slope / Boil the Frog deal OR a Sacrificial Lamb deal?
Now he only gets to have a handful of callers due to time. Let's say 5-7. I know at least 2-3 just said BumpStock was a joke, can be done other ways. I know 2 people said it was just a sacrificial lamb deal. Give it to them and it's done.
Only 1 or maybe 2 said this was a boil the frog situation. One more piece of the pie until they get everything.
Even on this forum you will see 85% ratios on various mentalities regarding strict conclusions. So in the public can we really expect to get anything nearing 50% strict 2A compliance without a massive fight? I don't see how and I believe the next time the Dems get all three branches in their hands it's all going down the toilet.
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