View Full Version : Pearl Harbor 76 years ago
a remembranceWas just there for the first time last month. It's really the only reason I wanted to go to Hawaii.
Respect and prayers for all
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I've always wanted to go to Pearl Harbor. The Greatest Generation are a great example to all of us, and I'm glad to see their memory living on in some of us.
RetroRevolver77
12-07-17, 16:26
My grandfather fought in the South Pacific. He enlisted as well. I'm thankful he made it back alive.
Was just there for the first time last month. It's really the only reason I wanted to go to Hawaii.
Respect and prayers for all
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Yep, Hawaii is one my "one day" list and Pearl Harbor is a big part of the reason.
Dist. Expert 26
12-07-17, 18:00
A guy I used to be friends with had a special button he would wear on December 7th every year; a fist with the middle finger extended holding a Japanese flag. I wish I could find one like it.
The summer right before I turned 16 I got to see Pearl Harbor. Even at that age what struck me as odd was on the way out down the channel (we took the sightseeing "cruise") I saw what appeared to be Japanese warships docked, flying the flag of Nippon. This was down in the general area where the USS Nevada ran aground. I thought it ironic, not to mention the fact that at least half the tourists on the boat I was on were Japanese.
I'd like to go now and see the USS Missouri. That would be cool.
Was just there for the first time last month. It's really the only reason I wanted to go to Hawaii.
Respect and prayers for all
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humbling place !
I am from Maui so holds quite a bit to me in many ways
also got to dive and take photos on the USS Arizona about 20 years ago once in a lifetime thing that was again such a privilege
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=49113&d=1512697546
Japanese solider from Truk Lagoon
(bad scan this was film days)
49113
platoonDaddy
12-07-17, 19:50
Working on a project for CINCPAC and one day, was advised that I was going to have a VIP tour of Pear Harbor. The following day, was retrieved from the hotel and driven down to the docks. Docked there was a wooden yacht from the 20's or 30's, friggin awesome. Boarded and off into the harbor we go, few minutes into the tour about 5 zero's flew over the harbor and then fires aboard a few WWII warships. In shock, I looked at the sailor and said is this for real. He laughed, said this is the filming of Toro Toro Toro. LOL
Dang for awhile there, I was really confused.
Working on a project for CINCPAC and one day, was advised that I was going to have a VIP tour of Pear Harbor. The following day, was retrieved from the hotel and driven down to the docks. Docked there was a wooden yacht from the 20's or 30's, friggin awesome. Boarded and off into the harbor we go, few minutes into the tour about 5 zero's flew over the harbor and then fires aboard a few WWII warships. In shock, I looked at the sailor and said is this for real. He laughed, said this is the filming of Toro Toro Toro. LOL
Dang for awhile there, I was really confused.
That had to be surreal.
Kinda morbid, but I wonder if the Japanese had known what was in store 4 short years later if they would have
stayed out of it.
The Japanese committed a lot of atrocities in that war but they were admirably disciplined.
The Pacific was a total let down. I thought it would be like Band of Brothers or better yet WWII Generation Kill.
Nope boring except the very last eps.
I still liked The Thin Red Line. That movie just spoke to me. It was like 3 hours long but I saw it twice in theatres. Once with a girl who kinda ruined it and then alone to enjoy it.
I liked it far better that SPR.
That was quite a time in history
platoonDaddy
12-07-17, 21:03
That had to be surreal.
AMEN talking to the crew, many members of the military stationed there made a few dollars working as extras (can't recall term, maybe extras is the correct term). There were fires on the decks, men in the water, it was just friggin unbelievable.
Don't know if you recall the Sci fi "The Final Countdown" with Kirk Douglas. Where an aircraft carrier traveled through time to the day before the attack on Pearl. As the crew of the carrier, I was in shock. Yes, it was very surreal!
Diamondback
12-07-17, 21:14
Kinda morbid, but I wonder if the Japanese had known what was in store 4 short years later if they would have
stayed out of it.
The Japanese committed a lot of atrocities in that war but they were admirably disciplined.
The Pacific was a total let down. I thought it would be like Band of Brothers or better yet WWII Generation Kill.
Nope boring except the very last eps.
I still liked The Thin Red Line. That movie just spoke to me. It was like 3 hours long but I saw it twice in theatres. Once with a girl who kinda ruined it and then alone to enjoy it.
I liked it far better that SPR.
That was quite a time in history
You want a PTO movie, try The Great Raid. Gregory Peck's take on MacArthur was OK, I thought--then again, maybe that's me giving extra credit because Peck also did his own research and made them rewrite the whole movie where he felt the writers had gotten it wrong.
Haven't seen Emperor to compare TLJ's take on Mac (which sounds much less researched from the reviews and interviews I've read), and Hacksaw Ridge is on the To Do List.
Dist. Expert 26
12-07-17, 21:32
Kinda morbid, but I wonder if the Japanese had known what was in store 4 short years later if they would have
stayed out of it.
The Japanese committed a lot of atrocities in that war but they were admirably disciplined.
The Pacific was a total let down. I thought it would be like Band of Brothers or better yet WWII Generation Kill.
Nope boring except the very last eps.
I still liked The Thin Red Line. That movie just spoke to me. It was like 3 hours long but I saw it twice in theatres. Once with a girl who kinda ruined it and then alone to enjoy it.
I liked it far better that SPR.
That was quite a time in history
After having read the books the series was based on, I've gotta say The Pacific was really pretty accurate. What action scenes they included were really well done and I think they captured the reality of the situation. Unfortunately for the viewers that meant a lot of sitting around waiting for something to happen.
As to your point about the consequences of Pearl Harbor- the firebombing raid on Tokyo was the deadliest air raid in human history and did nothing to deter them from continuing the war. So no, I don't think knowing the consequences would have changed anything.
I'm with Firefly. The Pacific was a let down for me too. IMHO it doesn't come close to being half as good as Band of Brothers.
The episode with Sledge breaking down after coming home when he went hunting with his father was pretty sobering though. It reminded me of stories I had heard about my grandfather when it came time to slaughter hogs on the farm. Supposedly they were giving him hell about not wanting participate in the slaughter, and his reply was if they had seen as much blood as he had they wouldn't want to see any more.
My grandfather took me in the woods behind our farm and taught me to hunt. I don't recall him ever taking anything in the field. I did witness him pull off of a squirrel intentionally one time when I was in college. It was an insanely close shot, and there was no way to miss with the shotgun. He blamed it on having a pumpkin ball loaded. I knew what he did, and we let it ride. That was probably the last time we went into the field together before he passed away. I miss the hell out of him.
Well, I get the whole hurry up and wait part.
I didn't totally hate it, I just didn't start getting into it until the end. It just lacked...I dunno. It just felt like there was something missing.
I did like how the Marines complained about the Army getting Garands while they had 03A3s and that one firefight in the jungle was far out. They had Reisings and 1897s. Sledge getting that Colt revolver and all wad interesting. Snafu definitely made it interesting.
And you gave a point. They were probably going to keep at it. Kinda pointless.
Well I dont feel bad they caught the A Bomb. They should have known better.
America aint Russia. We are fat, stupid, and lazy and kichiku beihei and all that jazz until we aren't.
And then we really aren't.
Diamondback
12-08-17, 00:06
America aint Russia. We are fat, stupid, and lazy and kichiku beihei and all that jazz until we aren't.
And then we really aren't.
Yup, and Yamamoto straight-up TOLD them so, that if they didn't have us Down For The Count in six months to a year it was Game Over for Japan.
Yup, and Yamamoto straight-up TOLD them so, that if they didn't have us Down For The Count in six months to a year it was Game Over for Japan.
When you realize that a lot of Nazi leadership were on Meth (for real, the invented it) amd a lot of Japanese leadership were on opium a LOT of WWII starts to makes sense.
Master Races, Nipponification, and thousand year reichs.....
You gotta be high as a kite if you think that matters going up against dudes with M1 everything from 30-06s to carbines to SMGs
that have the A-Bomb
Kinda morbid, but I wonder if the Japanese had known what was in store 4 short years later if they would have
stayed out of it.
The Japanese committed a lot of atrocities in that war but they were admirably disciplined.
Discipline isn't always a good thing. Serial killers can be very disciplined. I understand where you were going with that, but fatalistically devoted goes down many bad roads.
Diamondback
12-08-17, 00:28
When you realize that a lot of Nazi leadership were on Meth (for real, the invented it) amd a lot of Japanese leadership were on opium a LOT of WWII starts to makes sense.
Master Races, Nipponification, and thousand year reichs.....
You gotta be high as a kite if you think that matters going up against dudes with M1 everything from 30-06s to carbines to SMGs
that have the A-Bomb
Indeed. Here's a link that really does explain it all, that I used to use a lot back in my Axis & Allies wargaming days: http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm I was a consultant to the game designer at Wizards of the Coast, and the guys who wrote this also wrote Shattered Sword, a book that I used as the blueprint for creating an unpublished but used at a local convention Battle of Midway scenario. Even then, these guys lowball because they list US carriers as 90 aircraft while an Essex could operate up to 120+, and the Midways were designed for 150... (I actually ended up having to develop an optional "Advanced Carrier Rules" add-on because of how they messed up carriers in the first set, before they brought me in, and insisted on sticking with that "off" model for future releases.)
Diamondback
12-08-17, 00:32
Discipline isn't always a good thing. Serial killers can be very disciplined. I understand where you were going with that, but fatalistically devoted goes down many bad roads.
On the other hand, during my brief Executive Protection career back in college, it did wonders getting my Principal's asswipe stalker ex to go find somebody more receptive to his attentions... :) (Admittedly, it would have meant a high price to me if he'd decided it was worth trying his luck on Game Day... I'd like to think that that "I'm dead, but so are you" attitude and having the will, skill and tools to back it up saved not only her life, but also his--as undeserving as he was--and my own too.)
Moose-Knuckle
12-08-17, 04:07
Every American should visit Pearl Harbor at least once. It's sobering to say the least. So much energy there.
I spent a day there and could not see everything I wanted. When I go back I'm devoting an entire day to the USS Missouri and probably another at the Pacific Aviation Museum.
One of my great-grandfathers went to Pearl after the attack in the recovery effort. He was a metal worker.
I went there in June this year. You can see oil coming up from the Arizona.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171208/1aad7b450c1a5830bd8ad832ea2e489f.jpg
I went there in June this year. You can see oil coming up from the Arizona.
That's pretty wild three quarters of a century later.
Dist. Expert 26
12-08-17, 08:39
I watched a documentary on the History Channel yesterday. Something I never thought about, and had never heard mentioned, was the fact that the torches used to cut through the hulls of capsized ships burned up the oxygen inside and caused the trapped men to suffocate. Talk about sobering.
That's pretty wild three quarters of a century later.
The oil bubbles up at a constant rate. You don’t have to wait to see it. Every few seconds a few more drops come up.
I watched a documentary on the History Channel yesterday. Something I never thought about, and had never heard mentioned, was the fact that the torches used to cut through the hulls of capsized ships burned up the oxygen inside and caused the trapped men to suffocate. Talk about sobering.
What's even more sobering is the fact that once the USS Oklahoma was salvaged (she had capsized) in one compartment they found bodies and chalk marks on the bulkhead indicating that they had survived until right before Christmas until the oxygen ran out.
EDIT......see below.
I have an old bud- "Shorty" that's 96 this month.
Have known him for 20+ years and never knew he was a carrier pilot until seeing him standing on the wing of an SBD Dauntless in a photo in his den a year ago.
When I asked him about it he replied; "oh that, yeah I was a carrier pilot in the Pacific in WWll".
That was it. He offered nothing else- and I didn't press.
While Shorty has always had my respect and friendship, he assumed an entirely new level of respect that day.
Kinda morbid, but I wonder if the Japanese had known what was in store 4 short years later if they would have
stayed out of it.
The Japanese committed a lot of atrocities in that war but they were admirably disciplined.
The Pacific was a total let down. I thought it would be like Band of Brothers or better yet WWII Generation Kill.
Nope boring except the very last eps.
I still liked The Thin Red Line. That movie just spoke to me. It was like 3 hours long but I saw it twice in theatres. Once with a girl who kinda ruined it and then alone to enjoy it.
I liked it far better that SPR.
That was quite a time in history
The Pacific was great, and should never be compared to Band of Brothers (also great). Different story, different "type" of book and movie. The Pacific was very accurate and based on Helmet for my Pillow and With the Old Breed (two of the primary 'characters' in the movie/book were these Marines, who wrote these books after WWII).
As for December 7, a moving, significant, and honored date in Naval history. Also the date I was commissioned in the Navy (12/7/2003).
Last winter on a rare, spring-like day I walked outside at work, just to get some fresh air. There was an old man sitting on a bench with a "Pearl Harbor Survivor" hat. We talked for an hour. He was onboard one of the ships (he told me, I forgot). I told him he should put his memories on paper, he told me "I was just a sailor, no one wants to hear what I went through." Such humility.
I stand corrected; the ship those guys were on was the USS West Virginia, not the Oklahoma.
From USSWestVirginia.org:
Olds, Endicott and Costin were sitting on the harbor floor completely surrounded by water, 40 feet down. Cutting through the side of the hull for rescue was out of the question. The smallest of holes in a pressurized compartment would cause a "blow-out", something Submariners knew well. Besides, considering the destruction and carnage above, the problems of three men didn't amount to a "hill of beans" to busy Navy Brass. All Sailors know they are expendable after "set zed". Concerned Shipmates pin-pointed their banging as coming from the bow section, but could do nothing. Clifford Olds' friend Jack Miller had a sinking feeling Olds was trapped. He knew the pump station well, as Cliff would often invite him there for "bull sessions". It was so air-tight, they often closed the hatch and dared people to hear them cursing wildly inside.
Late spring 1942 found Navy salvage teams finally getting to work on the WV. An Inventive series of tremic cement patches were fitted to her port side, and enough water pumped out to partially float the once grand ship. BB48 was nudged across the Harbor into drydock and the grim task of finding bodies began. For Commander Paul Dice, compartment A-111 was expected to be like the rest: Put on gas masks, place some goo into a bodybag and let the Medical boys worry about identification. They had seen it all, but this compartment was different. Dice first noticed the interior was dry and flashlight batteries and empty ration cans littered the floor. A manhole cover to a fresh water supply was opened. Then he saw the calendar. It was 12"x14" and marked with big red Xs that ended December 23. Hardened salvage workers wept uncontrollably as they realized the fate of these men. Word quickly spread among salvage crews: Three men had lived for 16 days to suffer the most agonizing deaths among the 2800 victims at Pearl Harbor.
The Navy told their Parents they were killed in the attack on the 7th. Buddy Costin’s brother, Harlan, was the first family member to discover the truth.
Dist. Expert 26
12-08-17, 11:00
Jesus. That's the kind of thing that should be taught in school. The true reality of warfare, not glorified Hollywood BS.
That gave me shivers.
Yeah I agree DE 26. It's not all Swing music and Tommy guns.
That gave me shivers.
Yeah I agree DE 26. It's not all Swing music and Tommy guns.
Agreed. Some deaths just don't bare thinking about.
Jesus. That's the kind of thing that should be taught in school. The true reality of warfare, not glorified Hollywood BS.
So true! Those guys are the bravest of the brave. I'm sure they knew they were screwed, but carried on with the hope that they might be rescued.
So true! Those guys are the bravest of the brave. I'm sure they knew they were screwed, but carried on with the hope that they might be rescued.
I can't even fathom dying that way: a slow suffocation, mostly in the dark, for 16 freaking days.
Dist. Expert 26
12-08-17, 13:00
So true! Those guys are the bravest of the brave. I'm sure they knew they were screwed, but carried on with the hope that they might be rescued.
Sadly such stories are likely to be lost to time because most people don't care enough to learn about it.
A lot of college students actually argue that we were wrong for using nuclear weapons to end the war. They envision the Japanese as a bunch of anime loving nerds, not fanatical warriors. The Rape of Nanking was never once mentioned in any history class I've taken. Nor was the barbaric treatment of our POWs.
I could go on but there's no point. It just saddens me how little value our society places on preserving history.
Sadly such stories are likely to be lost to time because most people don't care enough to learn about it.
A lot of college students actually argue that we were wrong for using nuclear weapons to end the war. They envision the Japanese as a bunch of anime loving nerds, not fanatical warriors. The Rape of Nanking was never once mentioned in any history class I've taken. Nor was the barbaric treatment of our POWs.
I could go on but there's no point. It just saddens me how little value our society places on preserving history.
They gloss over the Bataan death march.
You're right. They think it was always peaceful Weebo World where everyone bows and has hello kitty headphones committing sudoku at the slightest dishonor.
No, hell no.
They would cut off dude's heads and Unit 731 alone did horrid stuff.
No A Bomb guilt over here.
I'll watch an occasional anime and play some retro Nintendo but the Imperial Japanese Army can shove the Chrysanthemum.
The other unsung heroes were the guys who fought the Japanese at Alaska. They tried some Red Dawn mess and folks got frostbitten fighting them off.
Sadly such stories are likely to be lost to time because most people don't care enough to learn about it.
A lot of college students actually argue that we were wrong for using nuclear weapons to end the war. They envision the Japanese as a bunch of anime loving nerds, not fanatical warriors. The Rape of Nanking was never once mentioned in any history class I've taken. Nor was the barbaric treatment of our POWs.
I could go on but there's no point. It just saddens me how little value our society places on preserving history.
In my high school the civil war took up 3 full chapters in the history book for US history. WWII, a section of a chapter, Korea barely a paragraph to mention it. Not always that people don't learn as much as it never gets taught. At least to a degree, and we as a people aren't much on self edumacation any more.
I went there in June this year. You can see oil coming up from the Arizona.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171208/1aad7b450c1a5830bd8ad832ea2e489f.jpg
when I dove on it got to watch where it was coming out :)
one thing that is interesting to see is the fact #1 turret still is on her and many do not know that
Jesus. That's the kind of thing that should be taught in school. The true reality of warfare, not glorified Hollywood BS.
Makes solemn events solemn. I once heard a person say "Happy Pearl Harbor Day." I'm sure they thought they were being respectful and well intentioned but I still wanted to punch them.
Dist. Expert 26
12-08-17, 20:13
Makes solemn events solemn. I once heard a person say "Happy Pearl Harbor Day." I'm sure they thought they were being respectful and well intentioned but I still wanted to punch them.
I have a hard time getting wound up over stuff like that. Some people, especially the typical "outraged internet veteran" make a big deal every year on Memorial Day, but the thing is most Americans have no skin in the game anymore. Pearl Harbor is just a movie and Memorial Day is an excuse to cook out. They have no concept of the true significance of either event.
I think it's pathetic, but it is what it is. You can't make people care.
If you ever get the chance go look up Ronald Reagan's speech on the 40th anniversary of D Day. The guys were in their 50s and 60s then.
The WWII boys are almost all gone.
The Vietnam War guys are in their 60s.
Desert Storm are well into their 40s.
And a lot of 18 yos during the initial 2003 invasion are in their mid 30s
Tempus Fugit
And another point was brought up. Kids spend all this time learning about other countries' history and none learning about their own. I figure thats intentional
Dist. Expert 26
12-08-17, 20:53
It's absolutely intentional. The less people know about their country, the less invested they are in it's future. Also, by learning history people tend to try to avoid the same mistakes. Neither of those fit the agenda, so American history is glossed over.
Or maybe I'm turning into Clint Eastwood from Gran Turino at the ripe old age of 26.
Was talking to my dad today. He has a 36 year old coworker who's never heard of the significance of Dec 7 or Pearl Harbor. My dad and several others were talking about Pearl The other day when this guy walks in and asks what's a Pearl Harbor!
I'm telling my dad no way... can't be! How can someone born here not know this!?!? So my old man proceeds to tell me that a few months ago they were talking about baby boomers and this same guy didn't know that meaning either.
Seriously? Find a rhesus monkey in the middle of some tropical forest and it'll know what a baby boomer and Pearl Harbor are!
How do you not know this? My dad, who came here as a 30 something adult knows what Pearl Harbor is from his grade school days and he grew up in a country hostile to the US!
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MountainRaven
12-08-17, 21:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhtuMrMVJDk
Kinda morbid, but I wonder if the Japanese had known what was in store 4 short years later if they would have
stayed out of it.
The Japanese wanted a fast war, over in a hurry. They wanted to sack a few American possessions, sink the US Navy, and force the US to sue for peace before America could bring her massive industrial and manpower advantages to bear - and resume getting American oil and steel to complete their conquest of China. If the Japanese had left Pearl Harbor alone, they might have even gotten away with it - or at the very least, managed to keep Americans mostly apathetic.
MountainRaven
12-08-17, 21:58
A non-American analyzes the attack on Pearl Harbor (in a short video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTZmW3qz3Js
I have a hard time getting wound up over stuff like that. Some people, especially the typical "outraged internet veteran" make a big deal every year on Memorial Day, but the thing is most Americans have no skin in the game anymore. Pearl Harbor is just a movie and Memorial Day is an excuse to cook out. They have no concept of the true significance of either event.
I think it's pathetic, but it is what it is. You can't make people care.
Still irked me and I try not to waste time on stupid. I think it was the tone, it was like somebody wishing you a "Happy 4th of July." One date is celebrated, the other date is remembered. I understand lots of people "don't get it", but it still irks me.
Moose-Knuckle
12-20-17, 17:25
I stand corrected; the ship those guys were on was the USS West Virginia, not the Oklahoma.
From USSWestVirginia.org:
Olds, Endicott and Costin were sitting on the harbor floor completely surrounded by water, 40 feet down. Cutting through the side of the hull for rescue was out of the question. The smallest of holes in a pressurized compartment would cause a "blow-out", something Submariners knew well. Besides, considering the destruction and carnage above, the problems of three men didn't amount to a "hill of beans" to busy Navy Brass. All Sailors know they are expendable after "set zed". Concerned Shipmates pin-pointed their banging as coming from the bow section, but could do nothing. Clifford Olds' friend Jack Miller had a sinking feeling Olds was trapped. He knew the pump station well, as Cliff would often invite him there for "bull sessions". It was so air-tight, they often closed the hatch and dared people to hear them cursing wildly inside.
Late spring 1942 found Navy salvage teams finally getting to work on the WV. An Inventive series of tremic cement patches were fitted to her port side, and enough water pumped out to partially float the once grand ship. BB48 was nudged across the Harbor into drydock and the grim task of finding bodies began. For Commander Paul Dice, compartment A-111 was expected to be like the rest: Put on gas masks, place some goo into a bodybag and let the Medical boys worry about identification. They had seen it all, but this compartment was different. Dice first noticed the interior was dry and flashlight batteries and empty ration cans littered the floor. A manhole cover to a fresh water supply was opened. Then he saw the calendar. It was 12"x14" and marked with big red Xs that ended December 23. Hardened salvage workers wept uncontrollably as they realized the fate of these men. Word quickly spread among salvage crews: Three men had lived for 16 days to suffer the most agonizing deaths among the 2800 victims at Pearl Harbor.
The Navy told their Parents they were killed in the attack on the 7th. Buddy Costin’s brother, Harlan, was the first family member to discover the truth.
Unbelievable.
Thanks for sharing this, first I have heard of their ordeal.
The dust must be getting in my eyes.
Moose-Knuckle
12-20-17, 17:36
"The tears of the Arizona" . . .
After my visit to the Arizona the next day I flew over the base in a helo, here is a pic of the oil slick from above.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4635/27406970029_1bc32f1bca_k.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4684/38476911654_54ec4dc878_k.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4594/38476912524_6cffd61772_k.jpg
Was the Arizona too far gone to be re-floated, and repaired? I have always wanted to go to Pearl Harbor since seeing Tora, Tora, Tora in the movie theater as a little kid. Amazing bravery, and horrible stories of the death of these great men. Chilling to face death like that. I can not imagine.
Diamondback
12-21-17, 11:59
Was the Arizona too far gone to be re-floated, and repaired?
The forward magazine exploded hot enough to melt part of the ship (that's why there's that huge dent in the top of the bow section), but B, X and Y turrets were salvaged for reuse.
The forward magazine exploded hot enough to melt part of the ship (that's why there's that huge dent in the top of the bow section), but B, X and Y turrets were salvaged for reuse.
IIRC the guns were put in shore batteries on the West coast.
The Arizona's destruction was complete. If you've ever seen the pics of her after the attack but before they removed the topsides you'll notice the bridge area and foremast toppled forward. The explosion and resulting internal damage dropped those structures something like 20 feet IIRC. There was nothing to salvage in the front half of the ship.
as I mentioned #1 turret is still on her though as said the others were put to use
it was melted so bad was hard to recognize when I was diving on her and I have dove a ton of WWII wrecks many places she looked like a potato chip
a few areas there are still artifacts on her deck a fork and some other things
they also keep part of her name on the stern clean and can make out the N quite well
one day I will rescan my film and post some pics :)
really bad and small scan :) ahhahahaha
pic of Gene Hackman pointing to the N
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=49363&d=1513911807
49363
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