View Full Version : Question about Freedom of the Press and current political climate.
Averageman
12-10-17, 17:25
I was reading this today.
https://theintercept.com/2017/12/09/the-u-s-media-yesterday-suffered-its-most-humiliating-debacle-in-ages-now-refuses-all-transparency-over-what-happened/
I also have been watching the deteriorating situation between the media and several political leaders.
As an example;
The humiliation orgy was kicked off by CNN, with MSNBC and CBS close behind, with countless pundits, commentators and operatives joining the party throughout the day. By the end of the day, it was clear that several of the nation’s largest and most influential news outlets had spread an explosive but completely false news story to millions of people, while refusing to provide any explanation of how it happened.
The spectacle began on Friday morning at 11:00 am EST, when the Most Trusted Name in News™ spent 12 straight minutes on air flamboyantly hyping an exclusive bombshell report that seemed to prove that WikiLeaks, last September, had secretly offered the Trump campaign, even Donald Trump himself, special access to the DNC emails before they were published on the internet.
There was just one small problem with this story: it was fundamentally false, in the most embarrassing way possible.
The story itself is of far less concern to me outside of only being "An Example" of what is now happening to journalism.
And from the same Story;
All of this prompts the glaring, obvious, and critical question – one which CNN refuses to address: how did “multiple sources” all misread the date on this document, in exactly the same way, and toward the same end, and then feed this false information to CNN?
It is, of course, completely plausible that one source might innocently misread a date on a document. But how is it remotely plausible that multiple sources could all innocently and in good faith misread the date in exactly the same way, all to cause to be disseminated a blockbuster revelation about Trump/Russia/WikiLeaks collusion? This is the critical question that CNN simply refuses to answer.
So the facts having been totally lost in this case, what is to be done.
And on a related note;
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/12/10/trump-blasts-wapos-dave-weigel-reporter-heckles-fake-photo/
1) The photo Weigel published was taken before the Trump rally began. And, as you will see below, Weigel knew he was publishing a photo not taken during the actual rally.
2) Weigel, who identifies as an objective reporter, is not only publishing a misleading photo, but the link at the top of his now-deleted tweet proves that he is responding directly to one of Trump’s tweets — in other words, he is publicly heckling the president personally.
3) By responding directly to the president in this way, Weigel is openly taunting Trump, even going so far as to troll the president with his own “packed to the rafters” comment.
Even if the photo had been a legitimate representation of the crowd-size, directly jeering the president in this way is still outrageous behavior from anyone who describes himself as a legitimate journalist.
So it would be logical then to me that the intent wasn't to accurately report on the event or the size of the crowd or the content of what was said by the POTUS.
Journalism has degraded itself in to a series of "Gotcha" moments and to hell with reporting the facts.
We are in an age of freedom without responsibility, there is little accountability apparently no oversight by an editor for these stories.
As much as I question the validity and honesty of some of our Politicians, with how do we get to the truth?
Perhaps more importantly do we leave this alone and how do we keep a "Free Press" in such turbulent times?
There is no such thing as a ' Free Press ' they are a bought and paid for extension of the Marxist
Progressive movement that consumed the Democrat Party.
Averageman
12-10-17, 18:12
There is no such thing as a ' Free Press ' they are a bought and paid for extension of the Marxist
Progressive movement that consumed the Democrat Party.
So if that is really the case, how do we fix the "Press" and still keep it "Free"?
Dist. Expert 26
12-10-17, 18:13
So if that is really the case, how do we fix the "Press" and still keep it "Free"?
The internet is our only recourse at this point, though I'm sure that'll change.
Averageman
12-10-17, 18:55
The internet is our only recourse at this point, though I'm sure that'll change.
And creating as many problems as it fixes.
As much as I use the internet to gather information and news, it's a quagmire of BS between sources of what you hope are true.
As you can see though, the problem is as much as the internet might have raised the bar in some cases, the MSM lowered their own.
Now we are handing the Courts over to the Court of Public opinion based upon the input from some highly questionable media sources like I cited above.
The greatest fear every politician should have is running afoul of a media so biased and blood thirsty that it is a Judge, Jury and Executioner. The facts be damned
I seem to recall that in the early days of the Republic the press was just as low and venal as now, if not more so. As bad as the " media" is, at least we have a helluva lot more information available now than in LBJ's day.
At this point it's an open question as to whether the sheep are too comatose for it to matter.
"More soma, anyone?"
The press isnt a bunch of intrepid do-gooders out for the truth.
They just sell the right lies to the right people.
Honestly I woukd trust a rando livestream on a porno site of a black dude in a beanie cap going "Hey y'all check all this out! Man Trump be telling folks off. Let's ask this Puerto Rican chick what she thinks. Hey You whatchoo think?"
"Ay wassup papi! I tink Trump gonna kill North Korea. Check out my nails blog! And Lauro if you watching dis stop looking at dirty pitchers!"
"Thanks ma'am. Damn you fine.... Anyways stay tuned we got more news and The Message!"
....and that would have far greater integrity that CCCPNN or Faux News. I mean that sincerely.
The press has lost a lot of sway because of independent people with either an upfront agenda or no agenda.
If you have a smartphone, chances are you are already a better reporter than the lamewads who majored in Comminications and Broadcasting.
That scares the Journos because they could, in times past, force the national consensus into adventurism (Kosovo) or declare any intervention as "unwinnable" (Vietnam, GWOT)
Averageman
12-10-17, 19:46
I'm all for bringing in some sort of legal recourse for stories so false that within minutes the bias and falsehoods are apparent.
False stories injure, if they can't stick to the truth, then something needs to be at jeopardy if they cannot back up the story.
It would keep opinion and supposition out of the story, just the facts please...
LMT Shooter
12-10-17, 19:57
So if that is really the case, how do we fix the "Press" and still keep it "Free"?
Unfortunately I think that any "fix," if it were to be implemented by the government, would be impossible without taking away from the "free" part. The First Amendment is remarkably similar to the Second Amendment in this regard.
Other than the government "fixing" it, the only solution is for the citizens/consumers to fix it by staying away from the bad media. Unfortunately most folks don't know the difference. IMHO, we've all been fed so much BS for so long, the idea that any of us can have a good filter for the media BS, lies, and bias is highly questionable.
LMT Shooter
12-10-17, 19:59
I'm all for bringing in some sort of legal recourse for stories so false that within minutes the bias and falsehoods are apparent.
False stories injure, if they can't stick to the truth, then something needs to be at jeopardy if they cannot back up the story.
It would keep opinion and supposition out of the story, just the facts please...
They could just claim to be that stupid and it was "an honest mistake," and many media folks have a track record to back that claim up.
I'm all for bringing in some sort of legal recourse for stories so false that within minutes the bias and falsehoods are apparent.
False stories injure, if they can't stick to the truth, then something needs to be at jeopardy if they cannot back up the story.
It would keep opinion and supposition out of the story, just the facts please...
That seems reasonable but....1st Amendment.
We have to protect all rights. If it is slander or libel there are already laws but if people want to give their opinions like the Onion or Duffel blog then all you can really do is tune them out.
Once I got a Weather App, I stopped watching the news.
News these days is entertainment more than anything anyways
SomeOtherGuy
12-10-17, 20:24
There was just one small problem with this story: it was fundamentally false, in the most embarrassing way possible.
The story itself is of far less concern to me outside of only being "An Example" of what is now happening to journalism.
And from the same Story;
All of this prompts the glaring, obvious, and critical question – one which CNN refuses to address: how did “multiple sources” all misread the date on this document, in exactly the same way, and toward the same end, and then feed this false information to CNN?
It is, of course, completely plausible that one source might innocently misread a date on a document. But how is it remotely plausible that multiple sources could all innocently and in good faith misread the date in exactly the same way, all to cause to be disseminated a blockbuster revelation about Trump/Russia/WikiLeaks collusion? This is the critical question that CNN simply refuses to answer.
So the facts having been totally lost in this case, what is to be done.
And on a related note;
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/12/10/trump-blasts-wapos-dave-weigel-reporter-heckles-fake-photo/
1) The photo Weigel published was taken before the Trump rally began. And, as you will see below, Weigel knew he was publishing a photo not taken during the actual rally.
The "press" is not exempt from libel and slander laws, even against the president or other public figures. In the UK and elsewhere it's pretty common for the press to get sued over such reporting (and much milder, factual criticism). Our laws, following the Bill of Rights, raise a very high bar for such lawsuits: the journalist or publisher must be shown to have known the falsity of their statement. In other words, they must have actually known that what they were saying was untrue, and any plausible defense of belief in its truth will generally shield them from liability.
For many decades this has been practically an impervious shield for the journalists, as it's very hard to show falsity. However, the examples above, and some other recent ones, seem so outrageously blatant that in fact it would seem to be rather easy to show falsity, and therefore establish legal liability.
I doubt Trump will bring such a suit, which would put him in a difficult political posture, but if he wanted to do so I think he could win on the legal merits.
2) Weigel, who identifies as an objective reporter, is not only publishing a misleading photo, but the link at the top of his now-deleted tweet proves that he is responding directly to one of Trump’s tweets — in other words, he is publicly heckling the president personally.
3) By responding directly to the president in this way, Weigel is openly taunting Trump, even going so far as to troll the president with his own “packed to the rafters” comment.
Even if the photo had been a legitimate representation of the crowd-size, directly jeering the president in this way is still outrageous behavior from anyone who describes himself as a legitimate journalist.
This part is just blatant bias and a total lack of class, or standards.
Basically all the bias that "we" have long seen is coming out in the open and is totally in-your-face. The people perpetrating it don't seem to have any semblance of shame or moral values, so it will only stop if an outside force (like the courts, or an effective boycott) makes it stop.
What we need is some common sense press control. Why not make them fill out a bunch of paperwork, pay $200, and wait 6-12 months to publish a story?
There is a lot of talk about the "journalistic core values and integrity". And that's what I would be saying if I was publishing fake news stories or editing news to fit my agenda. Obviously Trump has struck a chord with the news by claiming "fake news" to there face. But this goes beyond the news. Before Obama left office, Jay Leno, Davin Letterman, John Stewart, Conan Obrien, Craig Ferguson and a lot of people who were truly funny and talented were fired and replaced with younger "comedians" who were really globalist, socialist and everything the liberal media stands for.
Look at the current line up of late night talk show host and themes:
Jimmy Fallon
Jimmy Kimmel
Trevor Noah
Bill Maher
John Oliver
Seth Meyer
Steven Colbert
James Corden
Jim Jefferies
Larry Wilmore
@midnight
The Presidents Show
The Opposition
This is just beyond integrity or core values. This is anti American propaganda garbage. Every one on NBC, CBS, ABC, Comedy Central, HBO, MTV is identical in ideology, political affiliation, social issues, economic issues and so forth. This is propaganda just like a certain German country in the 1930's. You call it "comedy" but in reality, its political steering. You take the best of the best who ranks well with the 18-35 year olds, someone who is popular, has a little bit of fame and following, who is die hard liberal, you give them there own TV show and tell them to dress up there social-mission with some funny one-liners and you have a 24/7 propaganda machine. And Obama and Hillary helped these people build a following because they felt that in the long run, it would help them secure a total liberal run country. They invited these people to the Whitehouse, brought them to correspondence dinners, rallies, and even mentioned them by name via Twitter, interviews etc.
Its not even funny anymore. Our media has become 24/7 Trump bashing and false news spreading. I don't consider the firing of Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose, Mike Oreskes, Louis CK, David Sweeny, Kevin Spacey, Mark Halperin, Matt Zimmerman a victory. Those guys will be replaced with people who are brilliant at delivering propaganda.
This is the world we live in. We saw it happening during the 2016 presidential election. Non stop Trump bashing, miss quoting every thing he said, false claims against him, false info about key personnel in his current administration, the whole "1% chance of winning", calling him a clown, a failed reality tv host, a failure at running a business, a bankrupt business man and so on.
I heard that one of the reasons that Steve Bannon left the administration was to start a new conservative TV network and he already had a few conservative billionaires backing him. Not really to compete with FOX but to have an additional major network that leaned conservative.
Its disgusting out there.
LMT Shooter
12-10-17, 22:36
What we need is some common sense press control. Why not make them fill out a bunch of paperwork, pay $200, and wait 6-12 months to publish a story?
I'll take "First Amendment" for $1000, Alex.
Is it safe to assume that your are making this comment tongue in cheek referring to what they've done to our 2A rights?
I'm think that your list of late night talk show host changes were driven more by 1) retirements; and 2) ratings than they were some political agenda independent of the politics of the viewing audience. And the viewing audience is what pays the bills for the advertisers.
I don't consider the firing of Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose, Mike Oreskes, Louis CK, David Sweeny, Kevin Spacey, Mark Halperin, Matt Zimmerman a victory. Those guys will be replaced with people who are brilliant at delivering propaganda.
I doubt that the allegations are false. They betrayed the trust folks had in them as reliable journalists, actors, etc. by their actions.
sadly they exist and sadly people still watch
why I say same as football but so many so called patriots do not even want to give up football or cable tv and instead support these peanuts and their viewpoints :)
cancel your cable you can find stuff online if you want that only pertains to what you want that will help dry up some funding
people need to truly boycott any and all products advertised on shows like they do to hannity all the time ?
play their game but we have the numbers over them by a long shot and actually could do some damage to companies if we so chose to but again the comfort of our cable is to much
I'll take "First Amendment" for $1000, Alex.
Is it safe to assume that your are making this comment tongue in cheek referring to what they've done to our 2A rights?
Yes, people are so eager to loose their second amendment rights but don't ever talk about the first........
Just playing devil's advocate: why not rane in some of these people that are abusing the system? I mean in the interest in public safety.
Just a friendly reminder that all television consumption is totally voluntary.
I have my weather app for weather, my personal book library, my DVD collection, and the internet if I really care to know what is going on past my back 40.
These personalities can harp on to their hearts content with their bisexual, globalist, hippie crap all they like and I dont have to listen to them.
I actively encourage people to cut the cord, get an antennae for retro TV, keep a few radios (in case power goes out) and live your life.
When I was younger I used to watch TV and get irked. Now I just don't care.
Not even the Faux News leg chair is enough anymore.
I dont care to be preached at by people who can live very comfortably in NYC about how wrong and backwards I am.
Same way I dont care about sports except for women's beach volleyball or soccer.
I dont care about a bunch of losers tossing a ball around until they get too old and too fat or too many felonies and then start selling bengay or going on the church circuit reliving their has-been days about how cocaine and white women destroyed them.
It's not nihilism. It's all quite Zen.
Remember how that guy from Band of Brothers who was in Office Space was when he just woke up one day and totally stopped caring?
Like that.
Like I had to tell people to lay off CNN because I already knew what they were saying because it was on CNN and they acted like it was a Bible Verse and couldn't use critical thinking so I just said "Deuces. Peace Out"
If people are so stupid so as to let TV pigeonhole them into being miserable squares or ending up as lonely cat ladies then....
Sooooooooorrry 'bout that.
Enough stuff depresses me irl. On my down tine I just wanna hear jokes, tunes, see some breasteses, and maybe a magic trick.
I just don't care about Russia, White Nationalism, or any of these manufactured boogeymen.
I have it on good authority that my Soviet counterpart in Moscow is probably more worried about getting drunk, getting laid, and getting his hustle on rather than figuring out a way to hack anything past a credit card or parachuting in wearing berezkas with an AK74.
Maybe in WarFace or PUBG.
And when North Korea can pay their light bill and not have to resort to cannibalism then I might believe them when they say they can hit DC.
As for the Chinese most are blind and asthmatic from the smog, their guns suck, they are getting to fat for their tanks and they make more money from Wal Mart than they would Red Dawning us.
The REAL threats are being glossed over.
I dunno where it says we have to take in all these "refugees" who got HIV, wont assimilate, and wouldnt pass a 6th grade graduation exam.
Sorry your country went to shit. Shoulda fought for it. Any religion that says I cant look at breasteses or have McRibs is a lie. The Good Lord wants me to have a little enjoyment.
I always do the reverse ask:
If USA totally shit the bed, what coubtries woukd offer US jobs, welfare, and a place to stay?
None. And to all youse who think they will take in former military and doctors let me laugh heartily at you.
I knew a guy who had multiple degrees and spoke perfect English but was denied citizenship because he was born in Rhodesia. Like he tried joining the army (got declined despite bei g blonde, blue eyed, athletic, with perfect vision) and went broke trying to keep in college. Until he couldnt no more. Like a bunch of us wrote Saxby Chambliss and got a "Sorry too bad vote for me outta my hands vote for me piss off" form letter. This guy would have bedn self sufficient and an asset.
These other countries got doctors, lawyers, and soldiers. They also dont play Battered Woman Shelter of the world or world police and are very strict in immigration so they can keep a country.
I aint seen Europe since the 90s but I bet it is waaaay different now thanks to all the BS.
So that was my tangent.
At least America is so big that when time comes I can just live in a van with a hairy hippie girl with blue anime hair and size 5 feet. With a G19 and a Lever Action and a hot plate I can lead a full life
And all the city boys can sit and spin.
There. I verbalized it. I feel better.
I'm think that your list of late night talk show host changes were driven more by 1) retirements; and 2) ratings than they were some political agenda independent of the politics of the viewing audience. And the viewing audience is what pays the bills for the advertisers.
I don't consider the firing of Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose, Mike Oreskes, Louis CK, David Sweeny, Kevin Spacey, Mark Halperin, Matt Zimmerman a victory. Those guys will be replaced with people who are brilliant at delivering propaganda.
I doubt that the allegations are false. They betrayed the trust folks had in them as reliable journalists, actors, etc. by their actions.
They didn't get fired because they were sexual predators, that was already a known fact. They got fired because "WE" found out about it.
Jay Leno's ratings were higher than anyone currently staring in a late night talk show in the age group of 25-45. He retired? I remember he was shuffled around with Conon and eventually took a $45million severance package. John Steward could have gone on for at least 5 more years. His ratings are still significantly higher than Trevor's.
Speaking of advertisers. Comedy Central advertises the same commercials for Trevor Noah and Jim Jefferies as they do for Southpark: Taco Bell, pay as you go phones, job offerings, 1-800-sexy-girl, they advertise to 20 year olds who live at home. This was done strategically to pump up the propaganda machine.
Averageman
12-11-17, 06:38
I'll take "First Amendment" for $1000, Alex.
Is it safe to assume that your are making this comment tongue in cheek referring to what they've done to our 2A rights?
What we need is some common sense press control. Why not make them fill out a bunch of paperwork, pay $200, and wait 6-12 months to publish a story?
Doc Sherm got there first.
Yeah to a degree, you are right. The smartest guy in the news room used to be the editor, he proof read the stuff and had it rewritten for publication. There are many reasons for that, but perhaps the best reason might have been, that the reporters were sometimes too close to a story to be objective about something that was a conclusion rather than a fact. Something that might go out there and cause trouble because it wasn't a fact, it was biased and perhaps not ethically or morally the exact truth.
That doesn't happen anymore, because we aren't concerned about the facts. The bias and there has always been bias, isn't remotely even hidden between facts anymore. People don't filter because the shock value sells newspapers and advertising time.
I'm just saying that if they don't want the First Amendment treated like the Second, (and that might well be a natural legal evolution if they don't gather some self control) they better get a handle on things.
I'm glad you caught that, because they will howl to no end when their lies begin to be treated like bump fire stocks, SBR's and SBS's. I see someone proposing such legislation soon if they don't.
However, I will say, if your life has been trashed by bad reporting, outright lies and malicious prosecuting in the courtroom of public opinion in print and mass media, your chances as a "Averageman" of getting some justice are somewhere between slim and none.
I'm reminded of the Cop who found the bomb at the Olympics as I write this.
There is no such thing as a ' Free Press ' they are a bought and paid for extension of the Marxist
Progressive movement that consumed the Democrat Party.
Now, talk about painting with a broad brush. There is media just as retardedly right as there is retardedly left. There just isn't as much; and anything on the right, anything from center to the right, gets shouted down.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-11-17, 09:07
Was perusing r/politics on reddit and they are talking about how it is a slam dunk that Trump and his crew are guilty of treason. The new push is that FOX NEWS is complicity and aiding and abetting Trump with all their attacks (based on totally unsubstantiated info in their eyes) on Meuller. Since FOX is helping Trump against their country, the FOX people should be found guilty of treason too.
That is some scary shit. Now I know it is some arm chair commandos, but we've seen that the left is inherently and demonstrably much more violent than the right. Those are some scary comments.
Funny how they bring up the Fairness Doctrine too, when I watch the Sunday shows on ABC and NBC and the furthest right person on their panels would make a RHINO look like Reagan.
So if that is really the case, how do we fix the "Press" and still keep it "Free"?
Turn. Them. Off.
That's really the only way we can "fix" the press, because the last 12 months have proven nothing if not their willingness to cut their noses off to spite their faces.
If I were a member of government "leadership", I'd start every Q&A with this question: "How does your media organization plan to purge it's Fourth Estate ranks of Fifth Column agitators and propagandists?" Then I would force them to spend time on that topic and put them on record. My official website would prominently feature this WWII poster:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/%22Appreciate_America_Stop_the_Fifth_Column%22_-_NARA_-_513873.jpg/220px-%22Appreciate_America_Stop_the_Fifth_Column%22_-_NARA_-_513873.jpg
With a link that describes how they operate and why they do it. I would also CONTINUALLY reinforce that attacking subversive operatives within the ranks of the Fourth Estate is NOT an attack on the 1st Amendment, but an effort to ensure they don't undermine it to the point of obsolescence. Calling out these vile, over-politicized, so-called "journalists" is a necessary measure to reinforce the 1st Amendment, not undermine it.
Just a friendly reminder that all television consumption is totally voluntary.
I have my weather app for weather, my personal book library, my DVD collection, and the internet if I really care to know what is going on past my back 40.
These personalities can harp on to their hearts content with their bisexual, globalist, hippie crap all they like and I dont have to listen to them.
I actively encourage people to cut the cord, get an antennae for retro TV, keep a few radios (in case power goes out) and live your life.
When I was younger I used to watch TV and get irked. Now I just don't care.
Not even the Faux News leg chair is enough anymore.
I dont care to be preached at by people who can live very comfortably in NYC about how wrong and backwards I am.
Same way I dont care about sports except for women's beach volleyball or soccer.
I dont care about a bunch of losers tossing a ball around until they get too old and too fat or too many felonies and then start selling bengay or going on the church circuit reliving their has-been days about how cocaine and white women destroyed them.
It's not nihilism. It's all quite Zen.
Remember how that guy from Band of Brothers who was in Office Space was when he just woke up one day and totally stopped caring?
Like that.
Like I had to tell people to lay off CNN because I already knew what they were saying because it was on CNN and they acted like it was a Bible Verse and couldn't use critical thinking so I just said "Deuces. Peace Out"
If people are so stupid so as to let TV pigeonhole them into being miserable squares or ending up as lonely cat ladies then....
Sooooooooorrry 'bout that.
Enough stuff depresses me irl. On my down tine I just wanna hear jokes, tunes, see some breasteses, and maybe a magic trick.
I just don't care about Russia, White Nationalism, or any of these manufactured boogeymen.
I have it on good authority that my Soviet counterpart in Moscow is probably more worried about getting drunk, getting laid, and getting his hustle on rather than figuring out a way to hack anything past a credit card or parachuting in wearing berezkas with an AK74.
Maybe in WarFace or PUBG.
And when North Korea can pay their light bill and not have to resort to cannibalism then I might believe them when they say they can hit DC.
As for the Chinese most are blind and asthmatic from the smog, their guns suck, they are getting to fat for their tanks and they make more money from Wal Mart than they would Red Dawning us.
The REAL threats are being glossed over.
I dunno where it says we have to take in all these "refugees" who got HIV, wont assimilate, and wouldnt pass a 6th grade graduation exam.
Sorry your country went to shit. Shoulda fought for it. Any religion that says I cant look at breasteses or have McRibs is a lie. The Good Lord wants me to have a little enjoyment.
I always do the reverse ask:
If USA totally shit the bed, what coubtries woukd offer US jobs, welfare, and a place to stay?
None. And to all youse who think they will take in former military and doctors let me laugh heartily at you.
I knew a guy who had multiple degrees and spoke perfect English but was denied citizenship because he was born in Rhodesia. Like he tried joining the army (got declined despite bei g blonde, blue eyed, athletic, with perfect vision) and went broke trying to keep in college. Until he couldnt no more. Like a bunch of us wrote Saxby Chambliss and got a "Sorry too bad vote for me outta my hands vote for me piss off" form letter. This guy would have bedn self sufficient and an asset.
These other countries got doctors, lawyers, and soldiers. They also dont play Battered Woman Shelter of the world or world police and are very strict in immigration so they can keep a country.
I aint seen Europe since the 90s but I bet it is waaaay different now thanks to all the BS.
So that was my tangent.
At least America is so big that when time comes I can just live in a van with a hairy hippie girl with blue anime hair and size 5 feet. With a G19 and a Lever Action and a hot plate I can lead a full life
And all the city boys can sit and spin.
There. I verbalized it. I feel better.
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter please...
I stopped watching the news years ago. I listen to the radio In the car and at work. Mostly sports radio. I tune in when there is something of interest.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I love the news; I am a news junkie. But I like news, not this subjective editorializing that's so popular now. Give me the facts, and let me interpret them. I don't need someone to tell me how to think.
I get 99% of my news from www.realclearpolitics.com, a great clearing house for stories around the country from a variety of sites and sources.
Edited to add, that site has tabs for sports, history, policy, science, education...it's a great site for a variety of information.
They didn't get fired because they were sexual predators, that was already a known fact. They got fired because "WE" found out about it.
This is absolutely, one hundred percent correct.
I don't watch much TV. This past week I watched Big Bang Theory and Sheldon with my wife, and the Chief's game. I read the paper daily, listen to NPR in the car, take Time magazine and that is about it.
Before I retired I was simply too busy, since retirement, I guess I waste valuable TV watching time on the computer.
The reason we have this giant propaganda machine that is working against the values that made America great, is because half the country likes it and agrees with them.
Remember the saying: "United we stand, divided we fall…" We have been successfully divided my friends, and the division is growing more and more cavernous day by day.
As has already been noted in this thread, the way to stop it is to stop watching and call their BS. If enough people do this, it stops. Given the state of mind of half our country, I don't see this happening. The lies will continue. The character assassination will continue. The lack of integrity and lack of any appearance of professionalism will continue and get worse. And people like us will continue to get more and more disgusted by it, and angry about it.
What I hate is when there is a national breaking news story, CNN, ABC, MSNBC, CSNBC or NBC releases ground breaking-earth shattering information that was obtained by a "credible and reliable and trustworthy" source whos identity must remain top secret. You would think, especially in journalism at the national level, that citing your original source was mandatory, especially when it pertains to a national level topics concerning our government or political environment.
Shouldn't a "credible and reliable" source who is giving testimony and statements be verified by other news outlets or at least fact checked?
TMZ always cites the source as "someone familiar with the situation"- especially when talking about celebrity break ups, scandals etc. Is the liberal media turning into a political TMZ?
HackerF15E
12-11-17, 21:34
The only way forward is to continue unfettered freedom of the press and freedom of expression.
Was perusing r/politics on reddit and they are talking about how it is a slam dunk that Trump and his crew are guilty of treason. The new push is that FOX NEWS is complicity and aiding and abetting Trump with all their attacks (based on totally unsubstantiated info in their eyes) on Meuller. Since FOX is helping Trump against their country, the FOX people should be found guilty of treason too.
That is some scary shit. Now I know it is some arm chair commandos, but we've seen that the left is inherently and demonstrably much more violent than the right. Those are some scary comments.
Funny how they bring up the Fairness Doctrine too, when I watch the Sunday shows on ABC and NBC and the furthest right person on their panels would make a RHINO look like Reagan.
even better is hearing some say we can find out who voted for trumpand they are guilty to !!!
end goal of them just like any communist country :)
The only way forward is to continue unfettered freedom of the press and freedom of expression.
Agee 100%. I will add the caveat that there is a difference between free speech and reporting the news as in what the press corps is supposed to do.
We no longer have an actual press corps. What we have is the expression of opinions shrouded as fact and disseminated by entertainers for the purpose of ratings. That is as far from a press corps as possible.
If you get press credentials you should be held to a higher standard when it comes to factual communications. Have at the op ed stuff all you want, but stop pretending you’re reporting the news.
The demand for change needs to come for the people. Turn off and tune out the opinion based sources and let them crumble. Support fact based sources and let them prosper. Not going to happen cause watching a hottie in a tight outfit reaffirm your beliefs is far more fun than someone reminding you your opinion has no factual merits.
HackerF15E
12-12-17, 05:57
The demand for change needs to come for the people.
This. The core of the free market of ideas at work.
The only way forward is to continue unfettered freedom of the press and freedom of expression.
sadly both of those are not what they were and are limited in many ways now
the means to get them out is becoming less and less and some could land you in jail if you truly want to express them
Averageman
12-12-17, 07:10
The only way forward is to continue unfettered freedom of the press and freedom of expression.
Agee 100%. I will add the caveat that there is a difference between free speech and reporting the news as in what the press corps is supposed to do.
We no longer have an actual press corps. What we have is the expression of opinions shrouded as fact and disseminated by entertainers for the purpose of ratings. That is as far from a press corps as possible.
If you get press credentials you should be held to a higher standard when it comes to factual communications. Have at the op ed stuff all you want, but stop pretending you’re reporting the news.
The demand for change needs to come for the people. Turn off and tune out the opinion based sources and let them crumble. Support fact based sources and let them prosper. Not going to happen cause watching a hottie in a tight outfit reaffirm your beliefs is far more fun than someone reminding you your opinion has no factual merits.
This. The core of the free market of ideas at work.
We've had an interesting week with that.
I doubt if some News Networks are going to change any time soon to appeal to free market pressures until the harm they have caused forever changes the political landscape.
So you've got a loose cannon on the deck until the economic pressures of a free market take effect? Creating havoc, spewing lies about people and events and perhaps in some cases ruining lives , shouldn't go on until advertising dollars are removed based on market pressures.
All Rights come with responsibilities, I see little penalty for weaponizing the MSM against certain ideas and political parties.
There has been a lot of bantering about Collusion, but here is the definition;
Definition of collusion
: secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose acting in collusion with the enemy.
I'm not sure how difficult it might be for the FCC to prove that.
The only way forward is to continue unfettered freedom of the press and freedom of expression.
Do you think Trump and SH-S calling them out for fake news stories is "fettering" them?
Agee 100%. I will add the caveat that there is a difference between free speech and reporting the news as in what the press corps is supposed to do.
We no longer have an actual press corps. What we have is the expression of opinions shrouded as fact and disseminated by entertainers for the purpose of ratings. That is as far from a press corps as possible.
If you get press credentials you should be held to a higher standard when it comes to factual communications. Have at the op ed stuff all you want, but stop pretending you’re reporting the news.
The demand for change needs to come for the people. Turn off and tune out the opinion based sources and let them crumble. Support fact based sources and let them prosper. Not going to happen cause watching a hottie in a tight outfit reaffirm your beliefs is far more fun than someone reminding you your opinion has no factual merits.
This. So much this. Take the story du jour, Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand's beef with Trump. Gillibrand calls for him to resign over allegation made before he was elected. Trump tweets:
"Lightweight Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, a total flunky for Chuck Schumer and someone who would come to my office 'begging' for campaign contributions not so long ago (and would do anything for them), is now in the ring fighting against Trump. Very disloyal to Bill & Crooked-USED!"
Now the majority of SH-S's press briefing today was spent listening to the WH press corps repeatedly press her again and again and again on how in the world could Trump's tweet not be interpreted as sexist slut-shaming and accusing Gillibrand of being a prostitute? The primary focus of the briefing was supposed to be about yesterday's terrorist attack, how he entered the country and what the executive branch proposes to address the issue, but ALL the usual suspects in the press corps wanted to do was somehow force SH-S to admit that Trump slut shamed Gillibrand. We have a terrorist attack in NYC yesterday and all the junior Senator from New York and the press want to do is pin a sexist label on the president.
So here are today's top headlines right now:
NBC: Democrats rally behind Gillibrand after Trump’s ‘sexist smear’
CBS: Alabama Race, followed by Trump gets into Twitter spat with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand over sexual misconduct allegations
ABC: Trump attacks Gillibrand, suggests she would 'do anything' for campaign contributions
CNN: 6 words got Trump in trouble today
MSNBC: Mika: Trump attacks women because he's intimidated
FOX: Police union fires back after New York terror suspect’s family lashes out about NYPD tactics
How can anyone in their right mind view this as anything but a concerted effort by a biased liberal media to produce propaganda for political purposes? :confused:
It used to be that the first casualty of war was the truth. Nowadays, it's the first casualty of journalism.
There has been a lot of bantering about Collusion, but here is the definition;
Definition of collusion
: secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose acting in collusion with the enemy.
I'm not sure how difficult it might be for the FCC to prove that.
There is no "secret" agreement amongst the left or there media propaganda machine. These people are right out in the open discussing it, admitting it, celebrating it. Bernie came right out and said he was a socialist.
They aren't having secret collusion meetings about how to try to discredit Trump. Its open season and they are blatantly flaunting it.
Averageman
12-12-17, 17:41
There is no "secret" agreement amongst the left or there media propaganda machine. These people are right out in the open discussing it, admitting it, celebrating it. Bernie came right out and said he was a socialist.
They aren't having secret collusion meetings about how to try to discredit Trump. Its open season and they are blatantly flaunting it.
Then essentially that should be all it takes to make a case for the FCC.
They didn't have a problem going after Stern, did they?
That may be apples and oranges, but they have power.
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