View Full Version : Reloading after dry fire
P2Vaircrewman
12-18-17, 11:16
I do dry fire several times a week with my G 19. When reloading after I finish dry fire is it best to chamber the same round from the magazine or put the round in the chamber and then drop the slide. I heard putting the round in the chamber and dropping the slide is hard on the extractor. And by the same token constantly reloading the same round from the magazine is hard on the round. I keep two mags loaded with carry ammo and alternate them.
Outlander Systems
12-18-17, 11:24
Throw the round that's been extracted in the trash.
Reuse that same round after muliple exits and entries, and you'll be in for a surpsrise.
Reloading it a couple of times isn't a big deal IMO - or at least it isn't to me in 25 years of shooting.
In my younger days I reloaded the same round untold numbers of times and was ok.
These days I usually replace the chambered round once a month, since it has been loaded 3-4 times more than likely.
And I don't throw them away, I just save them up and shoot them at the range.
But maybe I'm missed some scientific data that shows I'm all ****ed up. :D
QuickStrike
12-18-17, 11:54
Depends on how you chamber the first round in the magazine. I always chamber it rather gently, but make sure that it goes into the chamber and is under control of the extractor.
So I reuse it. Maybe rotated in a diff position in the mag.
Sometimes I would put the chambered round between two new ones and place a flat edge over them to compare lengths and make sure there is no set back.
Or you can just toss the chambered round or use it as range ammo to save yourself all the hassle.
This is another reason why I like having a seperate carry gun and a practice gun. My carry guns rarely gets unloaded and stays in the holster ready to go.
Im with Rhino. You can get projectile pushback in a handgun after numerous reloads. My routine is after about 3-4 re chambers GSA of same round, it gets put deep in the mag It starts with the last round in mag and then works its way up
I change my ammo out yearly unless there has been a dunking or other enviro issue. Older ammo gets used up a range
Let me try to explain why you don't want to drop the slide on a chambered round.
When your pistol chambers a round from the magazine, the bottom of the slide picks up the round and pushes it out of the magazine and up the feed ramp. As it does so the case rim slides under the extractor. Unlike the extractor on the M4/AR, the extractor on a pistol is not designed to snap over the case head. So when you drop the slide on the chambered round, you are applying the stress of that impact to the extractor in a manner beyond it's primary function.
Additionally, you are impacting the same area of the case head on which the extractor is going to be pulling as it pulls the case from the chamber. It is unlikely that you would weaken the case head sufficiently enough to fail, but why take chances?
When you practice remediating fail to extracts you are, once again, making the extractor do something it wasn't designed to do, make sure you always inspect the extractor after you are done practicing.
As for repeatedly chambering the same round, my concern was that constant handling would get the oils and acids from my fingers onto the primer and from there eventually deaden the primer.
If your pistol is stored loaded, and only unloaded to dry-fire, simply place the ejected round back into the mag and reload it into the chamber as often as you are comfortable doing so - at a rate of drying firing 3 times a week I would ditch the round at the first of each month. When I was unloading my duty pistol daily, the round I had loaded over and over went into the cup on my dresser every two weeks.
When I was carrying a revolver, I shot my speed loaders empty at least once a month.
I was probably overly cautious in this regard because of my experience with military shotgun ammo that would routinely fail to fire after being rotated each month out of our guard force shotguns.
LMT Shooter
12-18-17, 12:07
If we're talking about departmentally issued duty ammo, throwing a round away each & every time you remove said round from the chamber will not endear one to admin folks. With pistol ammo,are there any potential problems other than bullet set-back or deformation? I check for that, and re-chamber rounds that look OK. Am I missing something?
If we're talking about departmentally issued duty ammo, throwing a round away each & every time you remove said round from the chamber will not endear one to admin folks. With pistol ammo,are there any potential problems other than bullet set-back or deformation? I check for that, and re-chamber rounds that look OK. Am I missing something?
As far as I know, that's it.
Outlander Systems
12-18-17, 13:04
Here's a little science experiment that should cost between $0.15-$1.00
Take a semiautomatic handgun.
Insert one round of your choosing into an empty magazine.
Cycle the action to chamber the round.
Cycle the action to remove the round.
Repeat as many times as you feel necessary. Strive for the OP's, "several times a week." We'll use five as a number, so repeat this process 20 times to simulate a month's worth of activity.
After 20 extractions, let me know how the rim of that brass looks...
Yeaaaah listen to 26 inf.
Otherwise, I take a red sharpie to the rear and cycle my ammo in the mags. Once all are red, they don't ever get rechambered until they are to be shot.
That has been my system for years.
Yeaaaah listen to 26 inf.
Otherwise, I take a red sharpie to the rear and cycle my ammo in the mags. Once all are red, they don't ever get rechambered until they are to be shot.
That has been my system for years.
good idea
ETA: I just realized how that could be read, I was talking about what you said, not listening to me.
Here's a little science experiment that should cost between $0.15-$1.00
Take a semiautomatic handgun.
Insert one round of your choosing into an empty magazine.
Cycle the action to chamber the round.
Cycle the action to remove the round.
Repeat as many times as you feel necessary. Strive for the OP's, "several times a week." We'll use five as a number, so repeat this process 20 times to simulate a month's worth of activity.
After 20 extractions, let me know how the rim of that brass looks...
Can you quantify it any further?
Because you seemed to imply a single time and it should be discarded, now you are saying 20. What do you do, 1, 5, 10, 20?
I get that the rim wears, that is pretty intuitive. Bullet setback? Sure, you should watch for it.
Still I have yet to see anything substantive that a 'surprise' will happen. And in the late 90s I was using my P220 45 pretty often and having spent my pennies buying a sweet German made SIG the day I turned 21 (that to this day has never malfunctioned, regardless of the shit I have fed it), I was pretty poor.
So after buying a 20 round box of the Speer "flying ashtrays", I spent the rest of my $$$ on range ammo. I shot 5 rounds of the Speer, then loaded up my 2 magazines and kept the weapon loaded +1 for several years - while I cycled through the ammo, that weapon, magazines, and ammo was downloaded and uploaded at least once a week for a year straight, sometimes more - since I only had the 2 mags that came with it, I would have to unload it before practicing, the reload it.
I know the ammo was looking pretty ragged out several years later when I finally decided it was a good idea to buy some new stuff. But I loaded up all 15 rounds and the all went bang, with zero surprises.
Do I offer that as "something to do"? Hell no, but a single chambering is ridiculous - 5 is very conservative and still plenty safe IMO. Being attentive for bullet setback and having a 'method to your madness' is also a key to success - like shooting your carry ammo every so often - I do a magazine every 3 month typically - which will keep fresh ammo moving into your duty magazines.
At least that is my method and opinion. If presented with some factual data, I would certainly look to see if I need to change something.
Rayrevolver
12-18-17, 16:30
I used to set aside rounds that have been chambered. When the total number of rounds hit 10 or so I would shoot them in my carry pistol. It does mean you will go through some carry ammo, but that is not really a bad thing.
Never thought about folks who are PD who need to account for each round. Maybe save the ammo for quals? Can you do that?
5.56 Bonded SP
12-18-17, 16:40
If we're talking about departmentally issued duty ammo....
Lol
You guys would shat your pants if you saw some of ammo I see being used in duty weapons that have been rechambered endless times.
My .02
rotate the ammo, or use a different gun for dry firing. Rechambering a few times won't be the end of the world if you are using quality ammo with proper neck tension.
Don't drop the slide on a chambered round, doing it once or twice won't kill your glock ( yes I've done it, everyone has ), but I would suggest to avoid it.
If you shoot a lot, replace parts on your gun, and replace your carry ammo. I mean, if one is shooting 300$ worth of ammo every month or two, it seems silly to not replace your carry ammo, but for some reason many of us cosider 20$ worth of carry ammo to be more valuble than the hundreds of dollars worth of plinking ammo we burn through every month.
https://media.giphy.com/media/KYNywoibU1PQ4/giphy.gif
Never thought about folks who are PD who need to account for each round. Maybe save the ammo for quals? Can you do that?
It is probably different for every department but...
For quals, they will give us ammo to qual with, we don't take it home or bring our own, or one will get a nice slap on the wrist. Actually, some guys have got fired over that.
Carry ammo, every bullet must be accounted for. I remember a guy lost 1 bullet once from downloading or whatever, and I think he got more than just a slap on the wrist.
But shoot, my buddy who works for a different department, they are much more ''chill'' about things. I remember him and I went varmint hunting once, and he was using some hornady tap that his department gave him to practice with lol.
I'm not a fan of rechambering or even messing with duty guns that are loaded. I prefer to leave it loaded and holstered, maybe do a press check once in a while. If you have to rechamber the round... I like to take the round that was chambered, and put it 3-4 rounds down in the magazine, then chamber a fresh round from the mag.
I think most accidents happen when guys are fiddling around with their guns.
hopetonbrown
12-18-17, 17:26
Luckily G19 are cheap enough that you can have one for carry, and another for practice.
Every time you extract a cartridge, mark the base with a Sharpie, from primer to edge. After you've made an X, replace that cartridge.
The two potential problems are bullet setback and chewed case rim.
Outlander Systems
12-18-17, 17:57
This. I've not experienced bullet setback personally; nor do I want to.
Regarding gnarled rims, I have reused ammo that had been removed from the weapon, only for the extraction process to chew up the brass enough where, when under the violent cycling of the action under live fire, the case rim had enough deformation that the extractor ripped right through it. The eventual result is either a stuck case or a double-feed. Beyond that, you're also inducing deformation of the bullet's jacket, which damn sure isn't going to help you win any accuracy contests.
49312
That is 20 loading and unloadings.
If you're doing this with carry ammo, you need to decide if your life is worth the $0.75-$1.00 It costs to replace the ammunition.
Luckily G19 are cheap enough that you can have one for carry, and another for practice.
Every time you extract a cartridge, mark the base with a Sharpie, from primer to edge. After you've made an X, replace that cartridge.
The two potential problems are bullet setback and chewed case rim.
I rechamber it twice then it gets set aside for range use.
It keeps good rounds available for carry and cycles my carry rounds on a regular basis, which needs done anyways.
If your carrying the same ammo for 5 years, you probably shouldn’t.
If I’m heavy into dry firing, I might even leave the gun unchambered and carry a different one so I don’t go through a mag in a week.
nightchief
12-18-17, 20:57
Slightly off topic since this the handgun section, but do these "rules of thumb" apply to a chambered AR round in the same manner?
NC
Slightly off topic since this the handgun section, but do these "rules of thumb" apply to a chambered AR round in the same manner?
NC
I think even more so.
The free floating firing pin will leave a witness signature on the primer when the round is chamber by letting the bolt go home from a locked back position, or by running the action properly. There has been much discussion about the likelihood of either deadening the primer, or setting the round off after repeated impact. Based on that the general rule with LE agencies that have legit rifle programs is to turn the chambered/unchambered round in.
In addition to that the case gets pretty bunged up, pretty quickly with the extractor snapping over the case rim, and the bolt rotating as it locks into battery, and then rotating as it unlocks.
If I'm using training ammo and don't shoot the last mag empty, I don't have a problem putting that round back into a mag, but I would generally no do that with carry ammo.
JMO
I think even more so.
The free floating firing pin will leave a witness signature on the primer when the round is chamber by letting the bolt go home from a locked back position, or by running the action properly. There has been much discussion about the likelihood of either deadening the primer, or setting the round off after repeated impact. Based on that the general rule with LE agencies that have legit rifle programs is to turn the chambered/unchambered round in.
In addition to that the case gets pretty bunged up, pretty quickly with the extractor snapping over the case rim, and the bolt rotating as it locks into battery, and then rotating as it unlocks.
If I'm using training ammo and don't shoot the last mag empty, I don't have a problem putting that round back into a mag, but I would generally no do that with carry ammo.
JMO
More good information. I think that eventually instinct takes over with any experienced shooter and you get a feel for when a round has potentially had enough, whether visually or figuratively.
In other words you naturally want the less beaten up rounds in line first just in case a well used one decided to act up, but not in an OCD sort of way.
I was just doing this last night. I put my chamber round back into the mag and ease it into battery with the slide to prevent damage to the round. Bullet set back was really an issue when I was a knuckle dragging 1911 carrier. Modern guns seem to have much better feed geometry. I used to drop it into the chamber, but learned that this was less than optimal for the extractor.
ramairthree
12-19-17, 10:16
Just set the round in the range pile each week.
A small number of loadings is not going cross the beams with it.
Every few months you will have a mag of your carry ammo to burn.
This thread just made me spend another 30 dollars on a box of 50: https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/2514/Pistol-Ammunition
I love these. They're light, have had reliable ignition every time.
I also just remembered I am reaching 6-8 months with the set in my gun now.
Nonetheless, was free shipping weekend, and I am excited to test the rounds in my carry mags. I have been saving these cases, as I want to reload them. The difference of a full load of these versus a full load of brass is a world of difference for me.
On that topic, I have had to unload and reload a few times over the last year. Every time I do, I figure "Why take the chance." I toss the bullet into my dresser change drawer and count it as:
"Pouring One Out For Da Homies."
It's only 75 cents. Considering the whole magazine load is $7.50 or so, it's not bad and a worthwhile investment. It's for your life, right?
ETA: And, hell, I practice with a box of carry ammo every few months. If you're following that routine, than saving the singles and changing them out for "Freshies" when you get the training box is a worthwhile way to go. You still get to go pew pew with the ammo anyways, right?
Just set the round in the range pile each week.
A small number of loadings is not going cross the beams with it.
Every few months you will have a mag of your carry ammo to burn.
Not a bad idea either. I only pull my chamber round out like twice per year. I think I'm due for my annual pistol qual. :cool:
I confess... I literally shoot my pistol like once per year.
I'll usually rotate that round down into my magazine so I'm not rechambering the same round more than 2 or 3 times. I mark the bottom of the case with a sharpie. Easy to keep track of that way.
There was a case while back were a SWAT team had been using Hornady ammo and rechambering it in their ARs.
Time came for them to stack up, bust down the door, and take out a bad guy.
All 4 (?) of the guys moved into the house and came upon the bad gun with the gun and as they pulled the trigger got a "click" instead of a "bang". Thankfully the BG dropped his gun and all was well. The Floating AR pin deadened the rounds so they wouldn't fire.
I don't often chamber an AR round I don't intend to shoot but if I do and need to empty the weapon, it goes to the range use pile.
ruckusjuice
12-19-17, 12:56
I carry two spare mags. My mags are labeled 1-3. If I unchamber a round, I mark it with a sharpie hash mark on the base. That round then becomes the bottom round in mag 3. I chamber a new round from the magazine when it’s time to load up again. When mag 3 fills up with once chambered rounds, I do the same with mag 2 then mag 1 (the mag in the gun). Everything then repeats with a second hash mark, etc. If a round has been chambered four times, it gets shot at the range. I shoot through all my carry ammo every year and load up fresh ammo even if the rounds had only been chambered once. I’ve never come close to chambering the same rounds four times because I have a training gun identical to my carry gun so I rarely have to unload my carry gun.
A year ago I sent an email to Speer asking their recommendations. The employee who replied to me said it was not recommended to chamber the same round more ham twice.
For ARs my standards are much less lax. If a round had been chambered once, I won’t use it in defensive mags anymore. It goes straight to the practice can.
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I carry two spare mags. My mags are labeled 1-3. If I unchamber a round, I mark it with a sharpie hash mark on the base. That round then becomes the bottom round in mag 3. I chamber a new round from the magazine when it’s time to load up again. When mag 3 fills up with once chambered rounds, I do the same with mag 2 then mag 1 (the mag in the gun). Everything then repeats with a second hash mark, etc. If a round has been chambered four times, it gets shot at the range.
I'd be worried handling the rounds that often - it sounds like you are loading and unloading magazines a lot to always place the last chambered round in the bottom of the mag.
ruckusjuice
12-19-17, 17:21
I'd be worried handling the rounds that often - it sounds like you are loading and unloading magazines a lot to always place the last chambered round in the bottom of the mag.
I’ve never heard of loading/unloading magazines to damage the rounds. What would worry you about that?
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OttoLoader
12-19-17, 18:30
Question: How deep in inches is the set back enough to cause a problem? For 9mm , and 9 mm +p?
I’ve never heard of loading/unloading magazines to damage the rounds. What would worry you about that?
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Because we all have amino acids and oils on our hands. The more you handle stuff the less likely it is to go bang.
You exert some degree of pressure on the projectile as you push it into the mag, plus pushing against the base of the case to get the round out of the magazine.
You claim to put the chambered round each day in the bottom of the last mag. That means the rounds in the mag are handled and reloaded from1 to 15 times - if you have 15 round mags.
What system, if any, do you employ to keep the rounds in order?
ruckusjuice
12-19-17, 18:53
Because we all have amino acids and oils on our hands. The more you handle stuff the less likely it is to go bang.
You exert some degree of pressure on the projectile as you push it into the mag, plus pushing against the base of the case to get the round out of the magazine.
You claim to put the chambered round each day in the bottom of the last mag. That means the rounds in the mag are handled and reloaded from1 to 15 times - if you have 15 round mags.
What system, if any, do you employ to keep the rounds in order?
I’m not sure where you got “each day” from. I don’t unload my carry gun every day and never said I did.
I don’t have a system to keep the rounds in order. I don’t think that really matters. The ones that have been unchambered get marked. If I see sharpie marks on a round, I know it’s been chambered that many times. I don’t care which order the other rounds are in.
I’ve never heard of rounds, especially duty rounds which are made to more strict specifications, failing to ignite due to the oils from someone’s fingers. Can you point me to any data or even an anecdote where someone believed the only factor in a round failing to fire was being touched repeatedly?
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I’m not sure where you got “each day” from. I don’t unload my carry gun every day and never said I did.
I don’t have a system to keep the rounds in order. I don’t think that really matters. The ones that have been unchambered get marked. If I see sharpie marks on a round, I know it’s been chambered that many times. I don’t care which order the other rounds are in.
I’ve never heard of rounds, especially duty rounds which are made to more strict specifications, failing to ignite due to the oils from someone’s fingers. Can you point me to any data or even an anecdote where someone believed the only factor in a round failing to fire was being touched repeatedly?
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While in the service I had the responsibility of training new members of the guard detachment to use the shotgun and thereafter maintain a schedule of fam-firing with the shotgun and qualification with the pistol (1911A1's) for the members of the guard force.
I used the ammunition rotated out of the guard force shotguns and pistols to conduct the fam-fires. I always had about 25% fail to fires with shotgun ammo, and the occasional .45 round that wouldn't go. This was on ammo that had been out on post for one month before it was switched out - with all the loading and unloading that guard relief every 4 hours entailed.
Probably more rough handling than you will ever put a round through. When I started carrying a revolver, and then a pistol on duty in the civilian LE world, I remembered those fail to fires. New duty ammo in the speed loaders every month.
When I transitioned to pistol, I didn't handle the pistol loads more than necessary - chamber check each round of the new box, load mags, stow the rest and replace the chambered round with one out of the box every two weeks (pay check helped keep track). ETA - mags got rotated on the month - I had 5 duty mags - started with #1 in the gun, #2 first reload out of the pouch, #3 second reload, #4 and #5 resting, next month #2 in the gun, #3 and #4 in the pouch, #1 and #5 resting. Easy to keep track of them that way.
I admit probably overkill, but based on my experiences as a young dumb Marine.
Reload from the magazine, after maybe 5 times, replace or place in the bottom of the last magazine or better yet in a bag and shot later(I usually collected them for me). I kept a couple boxes in the office and had the guys change out periodically-Actually made them. Rifle rounds are different, made that a 2 count, they would set back easier than pistol rounds.
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