Body armor noob thread

[5.56 Bonded SP]

I decided one of my Christmas presents to myself would be some new body armor. I wear soft armor 40+ hours a week, but I know that any rifle round would zip through that stuff like a hot knife through butter. It's nice and light weight, but I want something serious in case I need to grab my carbine.

I would like to keep it as light as possible while being able to stop M193 at cqb distances. Is this too much to ask? Will only level IV reliably achieve this?

Any suggestions on carriers, plates, and or knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. I'm leaning towards buying everything from AR500. Right now the setup I'm looking at will weigh about 25-30lbs with level III+ plates. The whole rig will probably cost about 500$.


Some video references for fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=231&v=oMYkEMhPsO8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfA3Qv9JjBA&feature=youtu.be

[sundance435]

Just my personal opinion, but I don't think Level IV is necessary for anything you'd realistically encounter here, even if you're on patrol. Sure, there's the off chance you encounter a guy with a 30-06, but you're adding a fair amount of weight to get protection for that unlikely scenario. I left LE just as guys were starting to take note of active shooter scenarios and began buying their own plate setups - most went with Level III for the weight savings and the likelihood of what they were going to encounter.

As far as carriers, I had a Tactical Tailor that I really liked w/ Level IV plates (just because I got a good deal on them). If I was doing it over, I'd probably go Level III or III+.

[Defaultmp3]

Read this primer: http://store.atarmor.com/category_s/1884.htm

500 USD for a carrier and armor alone is not going to get you anything both comfortable and protective.

Also, M4C usually talks about armor here: https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?14-Tactical-Gear

[THCDDM4]

Ar500 is heavy and known for spalling and fragmentation issues, even with the coatings.

Do your research. Good plates are not cheap. The cheapest I would go is Midwest armor. About $500.00-$900.00 per plate depending on what you need.

[seb5]

In my experience, and I've worn ceramic in Iraq and Afghanistan, and steel and polyethylene here as an LEO. For my money, and I've bought plates, and worn issued plates over the years. I'll say I hate 7-8lb. plates. For my money a good plate carrier with level 3A panel and polyethylene in conjunction with plates were the best for for me. They may not stop what a level 4 plate will but for me this is what I'm willing to actually wear.

[Wake27]

Since we’re on the topic, anyone know anything about Hesco plates? Normally I only use Velocity armor because I trust them and love their nylon gear, but OPTactical has been pushing Hesco and they usually only carry decent shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[5.56 Bonded SP]

I'd like to mention that, this wouldn't be a daily rig. I'll wear my issued soft armor 99% of the time. There's no way I'd want to walk around 40+ hours a week wearing plates.

Also I was thinking level IV because I want the plates to be able to stop M193 at close distance, but if III+ can do that I would be willing to do that depending on price and weight. From my limited searches, it looks like most of th IV and III+ plates I've looked at weigh about the same.

I was looking at the AR500 testudo carrier and it looked pretty nice for an affordable price.
Is it a unanimous opinion and or fact that AR500 makes poor quality plates? I always thought they made high quality stuff.

[ABNAK]

Even plain old Level III is rated for everything up to (but not including) a 30.06 AP round. Not sure what advantage a III+ would give without going to a IV.

[Defaultmp3]

Since we’re on the topic, anyone know anything about Hesco plates? Normally I only use Velocity armor because I trust them and love their nylon gear, but OPTactical has been pushing Hesco and they usually only carry decent shit.Hesco is a high quality OEM. Velocity Systems, AFAIK, doesn't actually make most of their plates, but instead simply rebrand (kind alike how there are far fewer barrel makers than brands).


Is it a unanimous opinion and or fact that AR500 makes poor quality plates? I always thought they made high quality stuff.Maybe not poor quality, but certainly not high quality.

Anyway, as noted in other threads, the point is, cheap plates tend to be heavy and unergonomic (and possibly not even that protective); this will reduce your mobility and/or ability to shoot well. Are those things worthwhile for the protection? That's for you to decide. Either way, I'd rather have thick and heavy cheap ceramics than thin-ish and heavy cheap steel, due to spalling and penetration concerns.


Even plain old Level III is rated for everything up to (but not including) a 30.06 AP round. Not sure what advantage a III+ would give without going to a IV.That's not how NIJ levels work at all. NIJ level III is rated specifically for 6 rounds of 147 gr. 7.62×51mm NATO at 2780 FPS from 15 meters away. Nothing more, nothing less. Many unscrupulous resalers will neglect to point out that this does not cover 5.56×45mm/.223 Rem threats, and thus not note that various level III plates will easily be defeated by M193 or M855 (generally alloy plates on the former, UHMWPE plates on the latter). Hence why the creation of III+ and IV+ as a (rather nebulous) marketing term, to denote additional threats covered.

Seriously, guys, read the primer: http://store.atarmor.com/category_s/1884.htm. Armor isn't that confusing, people just make assumptions.

[ggammell]

Even plain old Level III is rated for everything up to (but not including) a 30.06 AP round. Not sure what advantage a III+ would give without going to a IV.

Many level 3 plates are not rated for M855. Which is what the + often adds.

[5.56 Bonded SP]

Even plain old Level III is rated for everything up to (but not including) a 30.06 AP round. Not sure what advantage a III+ would give without going to a IV.

5.56 goes faster than 30-06
Watch both videos I posted. M193 goes fast enough to penetrate Level III armor. It will usually stop m855 since m855 is slower.

Level III is rated up to ~ 2800 fps, m193 can still be going faster than that out to 100 yards depending on barrel length.

I know it's weird, but velocity is more important than projectile weight for penetrating armor.

[Firefly]

I've only used a PC only a few times until I just opted for straight soft armor.

Like if shit tops off, it will not be easy to sling on in a car or getting out of a trunk can take up time.

I have used a rather generic Eagle PC.

Like....

I'd sooner get a special threat plate for the vest you already have. You really just want to protect your organs and spine. You are still gonna get wind sucked oit of you and potentially traumatic cardiac arrest.

Your plate may be rated for 30-06, but you are not.

That's just me. Thats what I did. Rifle ambushes can and do happen but you are usually fooked anyways.

Unless you are just serving like legit high risk warrants a lot; I wouldnt spend my crimmus money on a PC.

JMHO

[Defaultmp3]

Watch both videos I posted. M193 goes fast enough to penetrate Level III armor. It will usually stop m855 since m855 is slower.

Level III is rated up to ~ 2800 fps, m193 can still be going faster than that out to 100 yards depending on barrel length.

I know it's weird, but velocity is more important than projectile weight for penetrating armor.Wrong(-ish). Velocity is what helps defeat steel/alloy armors. For UHMWPE level IIIs, they can stop M193 just fine usually, it's M855 that will easily defeat it, due to the steel core penetrators.

[Jellybean]

There was a pretty comprehensive conversation on this already in Tactical Gear:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?201697-Plates-for-civilian

TL: DR: Heavy single curve plates suck. Save up for lighter multi-curve plates.


I've only used a PC only a few times until I just opted for straight soft armor.

Like if shit tops off, it will not be easy to sling on in a car or getting out of a trunk can take up time.

Well, to be fair- depending on your PC, it can be pretty quick to get on/off, depending on how it's set up.
What can I say, I'm kind of a fan of plates, because Murphy.
Although the new Crye LV soft armor line is pretty slick...


Wrong(-ish). Velocity is what helps defeat steel/alloy armors. For UHMWPE level IIIs, they can stop M193 just fine usually, it's M855 that will easily defeat it, due to the steel core penetrators.
Exactly, which is where you'll usually see a lot of the fictitious "3+" rating, which usually (not always, depending on manufacturer) denotes an ability to stop 855, and occasionally some other threats.

[5.56 Bonded SP]

I've only used a PC only a few times until I just opted for straight soft armor.

Like if shit tops off, it will not be easy to sling on in a car or getting out of a trunk can take up time.

I have used a rather generic Eagle PC.

Like....

I'd sooner get a special threat plate for the vest you already have. You really just want to protect your organs and spine. You are still gonna get wind sucked oit of you and potentially traumatic cardiac arrest.

Your plate may be rated for 30-06, but you are not.

That's just me. Thats what I did. Rifle ambushes can and do happen but you are usually fooked anyways.

Unless you are just serving like legit high risk warrants a lot; I wouldnt spend my crimmus money on a PC.

JMHO


Well, my current vest goes under my uniform, and I could put plates in it but it wouldn't be ideal at all. I would also worry about the extra weight causing the soft armor to not fit properly.

As far as the high risk warrants go, yes that is where I am trying to take my career currently, and I'm fairly certain that will just be a matter of time. However, I would also grab the pc for home defense.
I honestly hardly even feel protected with the soft body armor, but it's definitely better than nothing.

[RetroRevolver77]

Wrong(-ish). Velocity is what helps defeat steel/alloy armors. For UHMWPE level IIIs, they can stop M193 just fine usually, it's M855 that will easily defeat it, due to the steel core penetrators.




Level III defeats M855 62gr steel core but not M193 55gr ball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMYkEMhPsO8

[5.56 Bonded SP]

Wrong(-ish). Velocity is what helps defeat steel/alloy armors. For UHMWPE level IIIs, they can stop M193 just fine usually, it's M855 that will easily defeat it, due to the steel core penetrators.

Interesting, I didn't know that..

So to clarify
Ceramic level III plates will stop m193 but not m855
Steel level III plates will stop m855 but not m193

Correct?

If you were to choose either Level III+ or level IV plates, would you rather have steel or ceramic and why?

Also, will reputable level III+ plates stop both m193 and m855?

[5.56 Bonded SP]

Incorrect.


Level III defeats M855 62gr steel core but not M193 55gr ball.

watch?v=oMYkEMhPsO8[/video]

I think he was referring to steel vs ceramic; each being defeated by different factors.

[RetroRevolver77]

You should worry more about defeating M855A1.

[Firefly]

You should worry more about defeating M855A1.

Yes, this. Because Tremaine and Don'markavion are just sitting on boxes of 855A1 with their KAC SBRs......


Honestly op, the most common rifle round you will encounter will be 7.62x39 or whatever 5.56 they sell at wal-mart unless it is Rufus with his .300 win mag or 30-30.

The Fellas don't put that much thought in the loads they use.

I have seen more SKS in aftermarket stocks and AKs than ARs. Though I have seen ARs.

If you do your job right, you probably wont get shot. But that's a training issue.

[ABNAK]

I guess I was making the comparison of SAPI = Level III and ESAPI = Level IV. While it is generally a correct comparison I guess there are deviances. NIJ and .mil should be roughly comparable though.

SAPI plates will stop up to 30.06 AP. ESAPI will stop up to 300 WinMag. The setup I have is ESAPI with soft armor backing. Bought it off of a guy I know who did Army Corps of Engineer contract work in Iraq and Afghanistan. If the SHTF I'd wear it, but it certainly wouldn't be pleasant.

As previously mentioned, there are differences between manufacturers as far as success at stopping various rounds is concerned. I read an article from 2012 where something like 6 different Level III plates were tested. All but 2 were able to stop M855.

[NYH1]

Don't both m193 and m855 need 20" barrels to get the needed velocities to penetrate the above mentioned plates? I'm not saying you'll never run across anyone with a 20" barrel AR, I have one. However, most are using 16" carbines nowadays. Mini 14's have 16" or 18" barrels. Just something else to consider.

NYH1.

[5.56 Bonded SP]

Yes, this. Because Tremaine and Don'markavion are just sitting on boxes of 855A1 with their KAC SBRs......


Honestly op, the most common rifle round you will encounter will be 7.62x39 or whatever 5.56 they sell at wal-mart unless it is Rufus with his .300 win mag or 30-30.

The Fellas don't put that much thought in the loads they use.

I have seen more SKS in aftermarket stocks and AKs than ARs. Though I have seen ARs.

If you do your job right, you probably wont get shot. But that's a training issue.

I agree, which is why my op mentioned wanting the plates to be able to stop m193. There's a lot of varmint ammo on store shelves in 223 that shoot 3200+ fps.
Ideally I would want the plates to stop both m855 and m193 because m855 is pretty common too.

I'm not worried about trying to stop 855a1 or any actual ap rounds.

[5.56 Bonded SP]

Don't both m193 and m855 need 20" barrels to get the needed velocities to penetrate the above mentioned plates? I'm not saying you'll never run across anyone with a 20" barrel AR, I have one. However, most are using 16" carbines nowadays. Mini 14's have 16" or 18" barrels. Just something else to consider.

NYH1.

Depends on the type of plate..
But as for a 16" barrel, yes it can easily defeat level III.
I think I saw a video of an 14.5" barrel shooting 50gr varmint ammo @3100+ fps through a level III steel plate as well.


https://youtu.be/8vkighPlBoc



Here's the video of the 14.5" barrel penetrating level III with 50gr varmint ammo.
https://youtu.be/YfcJ1RtnDOg

[Aries144]

The armor ratings are not intuitive. lvl III might stop m193 and/or M855, or it might not. The testing parameters for the hard armor NIJ ratings are very limited in scope and outdated. All a plate has to stop to get a lvl III rating is 6 spaced rounds of 7.62x51 at 25 yards. Unique attributes and behaviors of specific projectiles and armor materials are not considered at all. A steel plate that will be penetrated by M193 and a different steel plate that will stop M193 have the exact same lvl III rating if they both stop 6 spaced rounds of 7.62x51. LvlIII+ isn't an official NIJ rating. It's a marketing device arbitrarily assigned by the manufacturer and can mean anything.

So, for lvl III:

Ceramic:
Ceramic will stop everything but true armor piercing rounds. Medium weight, medium thickness. Good at catching bullet splatter, but may not defeat multiple closely spaced hits. Different ceramic plates have different levels of performance, weight, etc.

HDPE:
Unless something has changed, HDPE plates stop anything that is not true AP, except rounds like M855 with hardened metal components inside them. Very thick (1" +), but very light.

Steel:
Steel plates have changed recently. They're still heavy, thin (0.25" +) and cheap, but some companies are showing tests where specially rated steel plates consistently defeat high speed 5.56 at close range (closer than 25 yards). I don't know what the word is these days on coatings and bullet splatter.

Hybrids:
Finally you've got hybrid plates. There was at least one company making a steel/HDPE hybrid at about 8 lbs per plate and other companies making HDPE/ceramic plates that can be very light and more resistant to multiple hits than ceramic alone. Hybrids are expensive, but seem to offer the current best solutions.

[Aries144]

Don't both m193 and m855 need 20" barrels to get the needed velocities to penetrate the above mentioned plates? I'm not saying you'll never run across anyone with a 20" barrel AR, I have one. However, most are using 16" carbines nowadays. Mini 14's have 16" or 18" barrels. Just something else to consider.

NYH1.

No. 16" carbines can do it out to 50+ yards, at least with M193 against the non M193 rated steel plates.

[Defaultmp3]

Interesting, I didn't know that..

So to clarify
Ceramic level III plates will stop m193 but not m855
Steel level III plates will stop m855 but not m193

Correct?

If you were to choose either Level III+ or level IV plates, would you rather have steel or ceramic and why?

Also, will reputable level III+ plates stop both m193 and m855?Aries144 went over it, but no, you're conflating UHMWPE with ceramic; ceramic is usually good at everything, alloy is usually defeated by steel, UHMWPE is usually defeated by steel penetrators.

It's not about reputable or not, it's simply about what the plate is tested to. Level III+ is purely a marketing term; it would not be particularly misleading if a pure UHMWPE plate called itself level III+ because it can defeat both the standard level III threat, and M193 all day, nor is it particularly misleading if a steel play called itself level III+ because it can defeat standard level III and M855. You simply have to read what the plates are rated for.

I personally own special-threat plates, made of ceramic, which are not NIJ certified in any way (which is another gotcha that some places will do; they'll call their plates level III or whatever, but not state that it's NIJ level III, which means that they only did outside testing and did not submit to NIJ, and may very well not have followed the test protocol exactly). If you don't purposely abuse the shit out of your gear, ceramics will hold up just fine.

Cheap ceramics will be thick and heavy, but provide good threat protection.
Cheap UHMWPE will be thick but light, have great multi-hit capabilities, and be consistently defeated by M855.
Cheap alloy without spall protection will be thin, heavy, have decent multi-hit capabilities, can have serious spall issues (depending on the angle the bullet hits), and probably/possibly be defeated by M193.
Cheap alloy with spall protection will be of medium thickness, heavy, have decent multi-hit capabilities, can still have some spall issues, and probably/possibly be defeated by M193.

Seriously... read the primer. Or even better, call up Mike at AT Armor. By all accounts, he is very passionate about getting guys the right stuff, within their budget.

[5.56 Bonded SP]

Very informative posts. I have learned a lot already.

Thank you especially to Defaultmp3, and Aries144.

I am going to have to do some more research than I initially planned on before buying. I am very happy about what I have learned so far in this thread.

I apologize if this was already answered and I missed it. Will nij lvl IV plates stop m855 and m193 from say a 20" rifle within 50 yards, or will that also depend on the material it was manufactured from?

[Defaultmp3]

I apologize if this was already answered and I missed it. Will nij lvl IV plates stop m855 and m193 from say a 20" rifle within 50 yards, or will that also depend on the material it was manufactured from?Technically? No idea, because level IV doesn't test for that. Practically speaking, generally, yes, at least one round, due to the fact that the only viable material that level IVs are made out of are ceramic, which tend to protect against most any round decently; however, ceramics aren't always the best multi-hit plates, so it might be a one and done, even it is able to defeat some AP rounds in that one round it takes.

The ratings and certifications only tell you exactly what the plates are suppose to be guaranteed to protect against for a certain number of rounds. Once that is exceeded or deviated from, there are good guesses, but ultimately, that's all they are: guesses. Whether you want to stake your life on such guesses is up to you. My plates aren't rated for M80 ball, for example, but I'm comfortable taking the guess that it is, based off of the other threats is can handle and the construction of the plate itself.

[Aries144]

Very informative posts. I have learned a lot already.

Thank you especially to Defaultmp3, and Aries144.

I am going to have to do some more research than I initially planned on before buying. I am very happy about what I have learned so far in this thread.

I apologize if this was already answered and I missed it. Will nij lvl IV plates stop m855 and m193 from say a 20" rifle within 50 yards, or will that also depend on the material it was manufactured from?

This should help you with your research (http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/confused-about-buying-rifle-plates-carriers-and-helmets-for-patrol-officers-start-here).

Stay safe.

[sundance435]

You should worry more about defeating M855A1.

Not sure if you're serious. Having seen numerous recovered firearms, 99/100 of which were handguns, they're lucky if they put the right caliber in a rifle, or a handgun for that matter. Most of the handgun rounds are a FMJ and usually from more than one manufacturer. It's great to be prepared for the 0.1%, but practicality/functionality plays a big part in it, too.

[ramairthree]

I am not LE.

It sounds like you are looking for basic protection for 40 plus hours a week and something special for high risk episodes.

Sounds like semi permissive environment type set up.

High quality soft armor full time,
With a set of plate hangers for when it is about to get real would be my recommendation.

[Campbell]

Read this primer: http://store.atarmor.com/category_s/1884.htm

500 USD for a carrier and armor alone is not going to get you anything both comfortable and protective.

Also, M4C usually talks about armor here: https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?14-Tactical-Gear

Thanks for link, I can now see the light👍

[BIGUGLY]

check out RMA armor, they are out of Centerville IA, manufacture their own stuff and if you contact them with your credentials and they will work with you on price. I have no association with them but have seen their products that some I work with have used and have liked their product.

[kerplode]

Yes, this. Because Tremaine and Don'markavion are just sitting on boxes of 855A1 with their KAC SBRs......



Not sure if you're serious. Having seen numerous recovered firearms, 99/100 of which were handguns

I don't think 7n6 was talking about stopping rounds from hoods...

Other random, probably unhelpful thoughts from a non-expert on the subject:
- A few years back I picked up a set of LvlIV Vel Sys ceramic plates because...Well...I wanted them and I had $600. They're heavy as hell and don't really provide that much coverage. If Tremaine opened up on me, I think there's a fair chance a round would impact something fleshy outside the perimeter of the plate and ruin my entire ever after. You've seen these jokers at the range, right...Mag dump into some huge pattern on the target. Yeah...Like half those impacts would land outside the plate. You might get spared a heart or lung shot, but end up taking 10 rounds to your arms, guts, and pelvis

- Don't confuse AR500 Armor the company and AR500 armor the material. The company seems fine. The material is questionable (weight, spall, general performance, wildly varying mfg quality, etc). If you're doing this for real, you're prob better off with something besides steel.

- Level III+ is not an actual rating. It's marketing. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Some of AR500 Armor (the company) products are actually NIJ certified, but at LvlIII or LvlIV.

- The Gov still allows its bullet-sponges, I mean, Citizens to purchase armor. If you want some, do it. Just have reasonable expectations.

- Shiny stuff is cool...Buy what you want and enjoy life! Can't take none of it with you when you go.

[5.56 Bonded SP]

check out RMA armor, they are out of Centerville IA, manufacture their own stuff and if you contact them with your credentials and they will work with you on price. I have no association with them but have seen their products that some I work with have used and have liked their product.

Thank you, I will check them out right now.

[HKGuns]

I bought the swimmers cut of this LIV Ceramic plate. Based on the testing in this video I feel pretty comfortable with my choice.


https://youtu.be/tt2Y1I4ZQ_A

[ABNAK]

I bought the swimmers cut of this LIV Ceramic plate. Based on the testing in this video I feel pretty comfortable with my choice.


https://youtu.be/tt2Y1I4ZQ_A

Funny to see the movement of the plate with 5.56 vs 7.62/30.06

[sandsunsurf]

My two cents: for what you’re doing, the carrier is an important factor. It sounds like you plan on using it like I did: Gun call or high risk call where I have time to deploy my AR and grab my heavy armor. I kept my armor on the front seat or floorboard. Since most of the gear is on a Sam Browne, a simple PC with blowout kit, TQ, and spare rifle mags that can be put on quickly was what I wanted. Picked the SKD PIG carrier. I used ESAPI plates because the price was right. I kept it pretty slick, two mags up front, TQ, IFAK. Two mags in the back, with covers and upside down, mostly for my buddies, but accessible to me. I tried more stuff back there but honestly even the mags make it hard to fit behind the steering wheel when you drive and more than once I thought about ditching them... Shoved a sharpie, a small multi-tool and a light stick in the front hidden pocket. I practiced a lot with a slung rifle with my PC so I would feel comfortable. Also, I carried an AR mag on my duty belt for fast reloads, and trained to backfill to duty belt from chest if possible.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171225/f84d4868983c03aeddcaec66d18b84c7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171225/21e93ec7840a2014699b023a25492294.jpg

[hotrodder636]

The one thing that I haven’t seen in any of my reading is how long will a ceramic plate actually be good for if properly taken care of. I see most of them have 5 year warranties. Experience?

I have been in the market for plates for a while now. I already have a carrier, the Mayflower APC.

[Firefly]

Sandsunsurf,

Your PC looks like mine only mine was an Eagle I got in like 06ish. Similar set up. But mine had the cummerbund like yours.

Tossing on a PC should be practiced if you are gonna haul one.

Mine was a bit slicker. No IFAK and no AR mags (I had an M14 and a shotgun), but extra pistol mags and zippy ties.

Still I like it better than that old Safariland deal with the snaps.

I keep meaning to get bungee holders but I never do.

[5.56 Bonded SP]

The one thing that I haven’t seen in any of my reading is how long will a ceramic plate actually be good for if properly taken care of. I see most of them have 5 year warranties. Experience?

I have been in the market for plates for a while now. I already have a carrier, the Mayflower APC.


Not sure, but this is my guess.
My soft armor has an expectation date of 5 years or so, it has a date inside it somewhere.. I believe this is the same for ceramic plates. There should be a date code on the actual plate or kevlar.

But I've seen guys shoot old expired vests that still stop bullets. I think a lot of factors come into play. One thing I consider is that my sweat will slowly deteriorate it...
Every day I take it off my under shirt is drenched in sweat regardless if it is the middle of winter or summer.
If the armor sat in a dark closet, or wasn't used more than a few days a year I wouldn't expect it to go bad, but that is my personal opinion.

Whether that the date is for its maximum effectiveness, or so the department has to buy a bunch more every few years equaling profit, I don't know. It's most likely an insurance liability, they probably estimated that time frame considering the user would be wearing it 40 hours a week...

But I'm only speculating.

I can't imagine coated steel plates ever going bad, and I assume most armor would last very long if it isn't being sweated in and beat up every day.

If you have access to an xray machine, it could be worth while to xray it every few years and check for cracks.

[Wake27]

I think its been discussed here a little so what's the current thought with threat evaluation between 7.62 API and .308? It seems that a lot of the "special threat" plates have one or the other. My guess is that .308 is much more common and therefore I'd rather have a plate that'll stop normal M80 ball over AK API.

[ABNAK]

I'll assume that current armor will not defeat SLAP rounds, correct?