View Full Version : Vickers Tactical 3-Day Level 1 Pistol/Carbine Class February 6-8, 2009.
Vickers Tactical 3-Day Level 1 Pistol/Carbine Class February 6-8, 2009.
Vickers Tactical website: www.Vickerstactical.com
Larry Vickers is a retired career special operations soldier with 20-plus years of service to our country. A longtime 1st SFOD- Delta operational member, he was a key player in the small arms marksmanship expertise and weapons selection of that Unit. He brings a very unique set of skills to the market, and has a wide and varied background in the firearms industry.
Select Special Operations , Military, and Law Enforcement Units seek him out on a regular basis for expert combat marksmanship training. Considered one of the best combat marksmanship instructors in the U.S, he has become one of the most sought after instructors in the Worldwide Special Operations community.
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Topics covered include handgun & carbine safety, stance, zeroing for iron sights and optics, sight alignment and trigger control. Familiarization with their carbine includes field stripping and maintenance. Other subject matter that is covered includes reloads, presentation, strong side & weak side shooting, shooting positions, use of cover, and introduction to different skill drills including dry fire and bullseye shooting. Malfunction drills and shooting on the move as well as transitions. Timed fire drills and evaluations based on class skill level.
Primary Instructor: Larry Vickers
- Class dates: February 6-8, 2009.
- Cost: $600
- Location: South Hill, Virginia
- Range facilities: Private range (Directions will be provided during class sign-up)
- Class size: Maximum sixteen students
Weapon & Gear Class Requirements:
Carbine:
- Serviceable duty grade carbine of minimum 5.45 / 5.56 caliber
- Serviceable sling (tactical type preferred.)
- Minimum of 5 serviceable carbine magazines
- Carbine mounted white light
- Optics – (Optional, but highly suggested)
- Minimum 1 carbine magazine pouch - or method to carry at least two spares magazine(s)
Handgun:
- Serviceable duty grade handgun of at least 9mm Para caliber
- Minimum of 5 serviceable pistol magazines
- Serviceable holster
- Minimum 2 pistol magazine pouches
- Handgun mounted white light (Optional)
- Visible lasers (Optional)
MISC:
- Hand held white light
- Electronic hearing protection
- Eye Protection
- Suitable range wear depending on the season
- Weapon cleaning & lubrication supplies
- Good attitude
Zeroed Weapons: 100-yard carbine preferred, but others are acceptable if you have a good reason why and understand it. Know your handguns zero at various ranges.
Ammo Requirements:
- 800 rounds of handgun
- 800 rounds of carbine
Please contact me at Paul.Hotaling AT Live.com or Paul@vickerstactical.com or M4carbine.net PM if you would like to attend.
I will be there!! Last summer I went to LAV's AK class...definitely learned some good lessons to pass on to my Soldiers...I definitely think it made a difference on this trip.
Welcome aboard, this will be an awesome class.
Hello VA Dinger,
I am interested in attending. Let me know what info. you need and where to send the money.
Take care,
Michael
30 cal slut
10-16-08, 16:39
i should just buy myself a house in south hill.
it sounds like this course is slightly different from the 2-day carbine/pistol level i.
CAG.Spartan
10-21-08, 01:27
I surely would love to attend this, gonna start saving now!
Hello VA Dinger,
I am interested in attending. Let me know what info. you need and where to send the money.
Take care,
Michael
Welcome aboard.
PM sent
I hope to attend as well, always good to go over all of the core skills.
30 cal slut
11-14-08, 07:21
going back over my class notes for last year's level I class (which was also in February)... i would really encourage folks to try to attend this one because it's possible (I can't speak for LAV) that you could get some basic low-light stuff, since it gets dark early.
Greetings. Do you believe the course will focus more on the carbine or pistol? Thanks!
Greetings. Do you believe the course will focus more on the carbine or pistol? Thanks!
The class is split fairly evening.
Day I - Handgun
Day II - Usually continued handgun training in the morning, then transitions, then moving on to carbine by late morning or lunch time.
Day III - Carbine
If anybody has any questions about this please PM me or contact LAV through the Vickers Tactical website.
Thanks for the reply. I have been hunting/shooting since I was a kid, but haven't had any formal training outside of the NRA pistol course. I would love to take a course like this, but might wait for the Tactical Pistol. I saw that that was offered this year. Do you anticipate it to be re-offered any time soon? Thanks again.
FYI: Sign-up forms have been sent to everybody who contacted LAV or myself. Please let me know if you would like to attend.
FYI: Sign-up forms went out today for everybody who contacted me. If you would like to attend or contacted me but did not receive the forms please contact me ASAP.
There are only two open seats for this class.
E-mail sent out.
Got it
Your sign-up forms have been sent.
Welcome aboard.
.
FYI: Sign-up forms went out today for everybody who contacted me. If you would like to attend or contacted me but did not receive the forms please contact me ASAP.
There are only two open seats for this class.
Just a reminder to not forget about me. I am cleared for take off... email sent
Just a reminder to not forget about me. I am cleared for take off... email sent
Got your email and your sign-up forms have been sent.
Welcome aboard.
Panzerschreck
12-30-08, 09:46
I can't remember if I've already e-mailed or if Templar signed me up, but I would like to attend this class.
Thanks,
Sam
I will be there. Looking forward to training with everyone.
I can't remember if I've already e-mailed or if Templar signed me up, but I would like to attend this class.
Thanks,
Sam
No problem, I will forward you the sign-up form & info tonight.
Welcome aboard.
FYI: If you just have a deposit with us for this class it's time to start mailing the remainder payments.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
I've still got two open seats for this class. Please contract me if your interested in attending.
FYI: Due to a LE departments funding issues this class just had two additional spots open up.
Please contact me if you would like to attend.
Great class. I'm back home working on pics, but I'll have an AAR in a bit.
Couldn't have asked for better weather, and a good group of shooters.
You guys definitely had some great weather.
I had forgotten that class was last weekend, until I heard the gun fire while I was at work Saturday morning. :D
When is the Wookie going to post up our pictures?
:D
It was an outstanding class. Lot's of a great guys and good shooters.
Yeah I want to see my "this is how to not do it pics".
February, 6-8, 2009
Vickers Tactical pistol/carbine course
I will not present this AAR in chronological order. But all that I recorded in my note pad will be rewritten here. This was recorded in between shooting and during lunch breaks. If there are any inaccuracies they are mine alone.
Dave P. (assistant instructor) started with our safety briefing.
Rule1: Is to treat your firearm as it is always loaded!
Rule 2: Do not point the muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy!
Rule 3: Firearm should remain on safe until target has been acquired and ready to shoot. When target is acquired check the background behind target.
Rule 4: KEEP FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU GOING TO SHOOT!!!
Larry advised us of the dangers in training on a range. These include training your actions in an environment that will not be that of combat. I cannot agree more. Targets are not shooting back and/or moving. Our targets were IDPA cardboard silhouettes’ with a 6” circle painted at heart level. Your mind set needs to be this is not cardboard, but an a**hole I am going to kill. Also we look one time at the backstop and forget about it for the rest of our shooting session. In combat a professional is going to check the background so innocent person are not killed or maimed in the shoot-out. If you handle firearms long enough you increase your chances of having an AD (accidental discharge). Hence the rules quoted above minimize this from happening. Heavily stressed was to be accountable for your bullets. A lawyer is attached to every bullet fired, whether it hits the intended target or a bystander.
We started out with balancing an empty shell casing on the front sight post and practicing trigger squeeze. Gentle was the key of the drill. No snatching, crunching, pulling or jerking of the trigger.
We then proceeded into doing ball and dummy drills. If there are any weak points in your basic marksmanship skills this drill will bring them to your attention. You safely hand off to your buddy 1 pistol, 1 empty magazine and 1 loaded magazine. You turn your back to the target and your training partner chooses to load the weapon or not and put it on safe (Glocks do not have manual safeties). Do not cheat because this only hurts you the shooter. So I found it necessary to always load the loaded magazine in the pistol no matter if a bullet was chambered, so as not give your training partner help. Your partner then fired 1 shot in the bulls-eye at 7 yards. If you flinched, snatched the trigger or whatever else besides good quality shooting skills the bullet will end up outside the bull. If your bullet
missed the mark, you where to unload the weapon and do 5 remedial dry fire drills. This is done immediately so to correct your actions and instill a correct response. 90% or more of the misses are due to lack of trigger control.
Much emphasis has been placed on sight picture over the years. And as important as that is trigger control is even more important. In stressful encounters the shooter has a tendency to rush everything including trigger squeeze which results in a miss. If time is of the essence make that time up somewhere else and not on the trigger squeeze. Have a faster draw or better sighting system or simple being aware of your environment and not being caught by surprise. Larry demonstrated gross sight misalignment at 5 yards and all 4 bullets impacted the head of an IDPA target. But the shots were taken with absolute trigger control. We were advised that this was not going to be a high round count class and every shot fired has a purpose.
Trigger control=trigger squeeze, trigger squeeze=accuracy (provided all other skills are correct like grip, stance and sight picture), accuracy=ending the life threatening situation quicker and in your favor.
Next we practice trigger reset drill. Knowing your reset on the pistol will allow you to quickly put follow-up shots in the target. This drill is the only one known to Larry for helping to train this skill. This drill is best executed rather than explained. Reset is after the pistol has cycled, the trigger has no slack in it and only needs to be squeezed that last fraction of an inch.
Larry’s motto: Speed is fine- accuracy is final. You can be greased lightning but if your bullets are not finding the target than what good are you doing? Remember that issue of being accountable for your shots. Larry has a 50% rule and that is whatever your groups are during a training session they typically double during combat. This is why we were training to hit a 6” circle on a human silhouette.
Larry explained wobble. When sighting in on a stationary target and time is not a factor you will get a wobble to your sight picture. This is where you can have the perfect sight picture but they are wobbling from the head to the toes of your target. The rule is get comfortable with your wobble. This was repeated over the weekend along with trigger control. To get us comfortable with the wobble we did a walk back drill. The group starts out about 35 yards from a steel plate 12” wide and 18” high. The first drill was conducted with pistol two handed strong side. You were allowed 1 shot. If you scored a hit then you waited for the group to finish shooting at this distance. If on your first shot you missed the second was done at a higher level of difficulty (e.g. one handed or weak side). If you missed the second shot then you were out and took no more shots. If you scored a hit with the second shot you were allowed to continue with the group. Once everyone fired at this range we walked back increasing the distance, until the lone warrior was declared the winner. There were many training modifiers added to the drills. Using time as a modifier was where everyone seemed to fail fast. Larry explained that when time becomes a factor everyone rushes to take the shot and with their wobble they trick f**k themselves crunching the trigger when the sights wobble onto the target. Aim small, miss small will help. Larry made 1 handed strong side hits with a 1911 .45ACP from 75 yards. All of this can be practiced with dry firing.
As another demo of trigger control Larry had a student hold and sight the pistol and Larry only squeezed the trigger while standing off to the side. From 7 yards 3 shot could be covered with a 2” circle.
Magazines: for Glocks should be down loaded by 1 round. And double action triggers as in the Glocks are completely different than single action triggers (1911’s). Larry’s opinion is that ALL carbine mags should be downloaded by 2 rounds. On day 2 I experienced twice with PMAGS loaded with 30 rounds extreme difficulty loading with the bolt forward. There is no room for the bullets to recess into the magazine and allow it to seat further up into the magazine well, causing 90%+ of malfunctions. Larry told me on day2 that 1911 magazine bumpers are no longer optional and are now mandatory items. I showed him my left palm which had 2 chunks of meat missing and 1 blood blister from ramming the magazine up into the well and pinching the skin.I have since purchased bumper pads for all mags. Also on his advise I have purchased dummy rounds 30 each for pistol and carbine.
Reloading: Should be done at chin level so you can maintain situational awareness. Finger off trigger and muzzle aware right hand must twist the pistol slightly off to the side to access and press the magazine release button. The left hand has its own job of retrieving a new loaded magazine. The right hand then re grips the pistol to original hand position and aims the magazine well toward the new magazine to be loaded. This shortens the distance from A to B. Insert the back of the magazine into the mag well and rock forward until about 1 inch of the magazine is inside the well. With your palm ram the magazine upward and seat it. The left hand starts to wrap around for support and the left thumb drops the slide release down. Push pistol forward as if someone has tied a rope to your pistol and are pulling from you. Acquire target and engage. When reloading under stress use magazines closest to your pistol. During tactical reloads, (topping off) use mags furthest from your pistol; because when you need to reload under stress you need that fresh mag now and every second counts. This is no different than the Sayoc quick draw mentality. This drill can be practiced safely at home with dummy rounds.
Malfunctions: Same as the reloading sequence this is to be done at chin level. The drill has three steps Tap, Rack, Bang. Upon squeezing the trigger and nothing happens remove finger from the trigger and place it under ejection port. Be muzzle aware. Tap=slapping the bottom of the magazine back up into the magazine well. Rack=gripping the slide from the rear sight area (do not cover the ejection port area) and pulling rearward until it stops, release it and let the slide slam forward. Do not ride the slide forward. Re grip pistol acquire target and engage. Tap, Rack, Bang has a tendency not to work well with the Beretta 92 service pistol due to the de cocking lever location. Larry expressed heavily try taking the observation portion out of the drills. This drill can be performed at night; so what are you going to observe in total darkness.
If this drill did not fix the problem you can advance to the RIP drill. First, finger off of the trigger. Be muzzle aware. Lock the slide to the rear. Release magazine and rip it from the magazine well. Shake the pistol in a rocking motion forward and backward 2-3 times. Release the slide stop with right hand and allow the slide to slam forward. Left hand acquires new magazine preferably. Reload by now performing Tap, Rack, Bang again.
Ready Positions: High, Low, South.
Drawing from holster: the draw and the shot are two separate actions performed as one fluid motion. Action to the holster is done at high speed. The draw is done at a slightly lower speed to lessen the chance of not getting the weapon clear from the holster. Acquiring the target is done at high speed. Remember keep the finger off the trigger during the draw. Holster should be positioned so that you can touch the bottom of the holster. This creates the optimum position for your hand to draw and not fumble the draw stroke.
I was using a Blackhawk Serpa holster which Larry explained to the class as potentially dangerous; due to the safety release position in relation to trigger guard. The shooter has a tendency to insert finger into the guard on the draw and shoot causing self inflicted wounds. I later at lunch removed said safety and adjusted the tension screw. Lesson here is to not be afraid to modify your gear to fit your needs. As a side note Larry Vickers is an excellent instructor and superb shooter. His advice is best taken when given. As a unit operator (Delta Force) for 15 years he has the honor of training more operators than anyone else in hostage rescue. He has seen more things happen and not happen during training scenarios.
Transitions: from carbine to pistol. These are done when you are 25 yards or less from the target and time is a factor.
Administrative transitions are performed differently. 1) Put weapon on manual safe. 2) Transition to pistol.
Combat transitions= Weapon does not function and target is 25 yards or less from yourself. Left support hand lowers carbine to the left side of body away from pistol side. Right hand drops to the holster and begins draw. Left hand comes back around to support pistol.
Carbine Malfunctions: done at 25 yards or longer from the target. Situation will dictate if you transition or not. Trigger squeeze and nothing happens. Take finger off of trigger and be muzzle aware. Push up on the bottom of the magazine. Pull down on the magazine to insure it is fully seated in the well. Pull charging handle fully rearward and release allowing the bolt to slam forward. Reacquire target and engage.
If this procedure did not correct malfunction then proceed to carbine RIP drill. Remove finger off of trigger and be muzzle aware. Lock bolt to the rear. Rip magazine from the well. Prom night: described as two fingers going as deep as you can get them up into the mag well and remove any obstructions. Release bolt stop and allow bolt to slam forward. Insert new magazine push in and pull out to insure it is fully seated. Pull charging handle fully rearward and release. Reengage the target.
Drills: recommendation is to shoot a maximum of 250 rounds in any training sessions. There is a tendency to burn out and just start launching rounds down range. You will benefit from solid practical training versus ballistic masturbation.
1) Ball and dummy drill.
2) Front sight and spent casing with trigger control drill.
3) Draw from the low ready and fire 1 shot. Re holster and draw and fire 2 shots. Re holster and draw and fire 3 shots. Then take 2 to 3 giant steps rearward and repeat drill.
4) Walk back drill.
5) Turns. Look first then pivot forward and draw pistol and fire.
6) Reload drills.
7) Transition drills.
8) Tap, rack and bang drill.
9) Rip drill.
10) Trigger reset drill.
11) Box drill.
12) Figure 8 drill.
13) Weak side transition drill.
I have left out some details. If the Moderators tear this down because of too much detail I understand. I had a great time and met some wonderful shooters. This was my first class and my first AAR. Comments are welcome both good and bad. Sorry no pics, I was having to much fun shooting to stop and snap photos. All the above procedures are for right handed shooters.
Take care,
Michael
Mike,
You've done a great job in writing this AAR, all things considered, while shooting, listening to Larry and Dave's instructions, reloading and keeping notes of what was performed during drills. Please do add any other details you wanted to add further as members do read AARs to get an idea what was performed and learned in this course. We had a good group of guys, progressively good weather (little muddy at first) and good shooting all around. Larry and Dave did a great job on instructions and providing tips to improve your shooting ability. Of great importance is the malfunction drills performed for both pistol and carbines and how to reduce operator error which can lead to malfunctions. The walk-back are real confidence builders, with both pistols and carbines. In sum, this is a great course to improve your pistol and carbines abilities as well as being able to take home what your learned.
Battlepack
02-18-09, 06:03
There's nothing quite like watching Larry shoot a 1911 at 75-125 yards.
I couldnt agree more. I have always been led to believe maximum effective range was 50 yards. Larry sunk that myth.
Take care,
Michael
Since Vaquero covered the class extremely well, let me throw in some class observations now that I have had time to digest them.
-rgrwilcox or "Captain Dan" has some mad skills with his HK45 compact.
- It struck me on the beginning of the third day that most all of the shots I had taken during the class would have been acceptable in other classes, but not with Larry. His accuracy requirement is strict and the
reasoning behind it is extremely sound.
-Homemade or as Larry put it "frankengun" AR's are much more prone to totally breaking down at the worst possible time.
- When you drive 10 hours to get to a class bring 2 of everything. It saved me a couple of times.
-Dave Pennington is the man he helped me several times during the class.
-Templar "loved" my LWRC gun I literally had to peal it out of his hands. (That's sarcasm in case you missed it).
-This class was extremely attentive and focused on everything Larry and Dave said. To the point that Larry jokingly remarked how we were the most talkative class he has ever had. Everyone was extremely professional
and safe throughout. couldn't ask for a better group of guys to training with for 3 days.
-Driving 9 hours through the smoky mountains AFTER the 3rd day of class was not the smartest move I have ever made. Next time I am crashing somewhere along the way.
-David Kenik, and a fellow LWRC fan, let me get a look at the DD M4 he was evaluating in the class. It was a smooth setup that ran through the whole class without a hiccup, must get one. He was also a darn good shot "for a gun writer" as Larry put it. An article detailing the class will be in the up coming "Book of the AR" magazine.
Great write up Vaquero.
I've been slacking with the pictures, I know. I still need to resize some, but I'll post a few to start.
MAP took the majority of the pics with my camera on TD2.
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Heavy Metal
02-23-09, 17:04
Well, I can tell one thing for sure from the pics.......It was warmer in South Hill two weeks ago than it was this weekend. No one was in short sleeves.
Business_Casual
02-24-09, 08:29
Wow! New plywood! Mmm.
M_P
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Templar, is that the hardest working man in food service with milled goodness shooting lefty no less?!? That's fantastic he could make it out.
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