View Full Version : Stalker Q for LE
Q mostly directed at LE here, but advice for those who have delt with such a thing welcome. Friend of mine dated a guy for a bit, realized he was not for her and broke it off. Dude went stalker. Fu*% I hate people like him, but some complications. He's repeatedly broken his probation and rules of the RO. She's gone to the probation office and complained to them about it, and they tell her without proof they can't do anything and she should call the police.
Example, he approached her in a Walmart. She told them that and they said without proof, such as the cam footage, they could do nadda. They refused to request the cam footage, said it was a police matter, which leads us to:
He's not LE, but his family is, in small PD. She claims calling the police has amounted to nothing and obviously very awkward and stressful to her that she's pretty much given up calling the police.
Now I only have her side the story, but I tend to believe her. My advice was to talk to her attorney about it and perhaps he could file a complaint about the probation dept not doing it's job? Other?
My sense is the guy is a career chit bag.
Leaveammoforme
12-29-17, 10:20
The obvious solution to me is for her to whip out her phone and record him. Then make a huge scene when he goes for the phone.
She can report to the State agency, and just call 911 everytime he gets nearby to create a timeline. If its one of them "just us" outfits they wont do anything and POs dont like doing stuff without police
By calling 911 even if they do dick about it creates a record that is on their CAD plus her phone bill.
Depending on his age, this,may not be the first time hes done this.
If it's a small town dept. go to the county sheriff, if it's the sheriff's office, go to the FHP. Have a witness to the encounters and she should get a protective order issued. Yeah, I know it's a paper tiger but begins a legal process for a permanent order and follow on criminal charges. And yes the attorney is a must. Of course I'm sure she has a CHP and one handy.
diving dave
12-29-17, 10:27
Does she have a restraining order against him? If so and he violates it, and local Police refuse to take a report, she needs to file a complaint with their version of IA for failure to take action. She needs to start a log on every unwanted contact. Times and places where he "just happens to show up". This has weight if they end up in court for whatever. Get her some pepper gel. Its nasty. She also needs to alert her coworkers/boss on whats going on in case shit head is waiting for her in parking lots at work or shows up in her building. What is he on probation for? If its DV related, she has a leg up on getting the R/O
In my jurisdiction restraining orders are civil in nature. Orders of protection apply when there has been a dating relationship. The orders are very specific in terms of what type of conduct is prohibited. Some of them specify no contact at all. Some just prohibit "harmful or offensive" contact. Others just protect residences, schools, places of employment, Etc.
"Accidently" seeing an ex at Wal Mart may not be a violation.
Difficult to say what should happen, or if the cops didn't do their job properly without knowing what is in the order.
sundance435
12-29-17, 10:42
It's very state law-specific. In my state, our most recent stalking statute was held unconstitutional as overly broad - basically too much restriction on 1st Amendment rights (e.g., your example of showing up at Wal Mart). Regardless, documentation is the key in any state.
The obvious solution to me is for her to whip out her phone and record him. Then make a huge scene when he goes for the phone.
Agreed, told her that.
She can report to the State agency, and just call 911 everytime he gets nearby to create a timeline. If its one of them "just us" outfits they wont do anything and POs dont like doing stuff without police
By calling 911 even if they do dick about it creates a record that is on their CAD plus her phone bill.
Depending on his age, this,may not be the first time hes done this.
If he's not done that one per se, he's done other chit as I understand it and is you standard D bag. Will pass on that advice.
If it's a small town dept. go to the county sheriff, if it's the sheriff's office, go to the FHP. Have a witness to the encounters and she should get a protective order issued. Yeah, I know it's a paper tiger but begins a legal process for a permanent order and follow on criminal charges. And yes the attorney is a must. Of course I'm sure she has a CHP and one handy.
That's a good idea. The county sheriffs are bigger outfit and have a big station not far away. No CHP, but working on that now.
Does she have a restraining order against him? If so and he violates it, and local Police refuse to take a report, she needs to file a complaint with their version of IA for failure to take action. She needs to start a log on every unwanted contact. Times and places where he "just happens to show up". This has weight if they end up in court for whatever. Get her some pepper gel. Its nasty. She also needs to alert her coworkers/boss on whats going on in case shit head is waiting for her in parking lots at work or shows up in her building. What is he on probation for? If its DV related, she has a leg up on getting the R/O
RO already exists yes. Not sure what his probation is for, whether directly related to her or other d bag behavior, but he has a 10pm curfew and approached her well after that at Walmart apparently.
It's very state law-specific. In my state, our most recent stalking statute was held unconstitutional as overly broad - basically too much restriction on 1st Amendment rights (e.g., your example of showing up at Wal Mart). Regardless, documentation is the key in any state.
State is FL.
In my jurisdiction restraining orders are civil in nature. Orders of protection apply when there has been a dating relationship. The orders are very specific in terms of what type of conduct is prohibited. Some of them specify no contact at all. Some just prohibit "harmful or offensive" contact. Others just protect residences, schools, places of employment, Etc.
"Accidently" seeing an ex at Wal Mart may not be a violation.
Difficult to say what should happen, or if the cops didn't do their job properly without knowing what is in the order.
The contact was a violation of his probation being out past his 10pm curfew.
If the guy is violating a restraining order then a police report is needed one way or the other. The violation is a crime.
Agree with what others said about filming, contacting SO, etc.
Not sure how Florida works but could she go to the district attorneys office and fill out what we call a long form complaint? Assuming your friend is rational, and they refuse, next stop State AG's office.
One other thing I would suggest is going up the parole officer's chain of command.
And finally, I don't know how Florida is about this, but she might consider contacting Florida POST if the PD is refusing to take her reports.
The contact was a violation of his probation being out past his 10pm curfew.
Probation officers rarely have the authority to violate someone's probation. That decision is left up to a judge. I have seen judges tolerate multiple blatant violations of a person's terms of probation before they re sentenced. Violations of orders of protection are a totally different animal.
sundance435
12-29-17, 14:58
Probation officers rarely have the authority to violate someone's probation. That decision is left up to a judge. I have seen judges tolerate multiple blatant violations of a person's terms of probation before they re sentenced. Violations of orders of protection are a totally different animal.
Very true, and the state's attorney/district attorney/county attorney usually needs to be on board, too.
5.56 Bonded SP
12-29-17, 15:51
Restraining order vs protection order. Understand the difference.
Some advice, if you are dating her, leave her, and leave the drama behind you. Trust me, it's not worth it.
Restraining orders don't really have much in the way of teeth, Protective Order is entiirely different. The curfew violation is probably pretty weak as there is bound to be some sort of loophole in it.
She should definitely record any contact and if the local PD is refusing to take any action, file complaint with IA. It isn't going to have any direct effect on shitbag but it could create a problem for his family member who is on the dept and that person might have a sit down, come to jesus talk with shitbag.
Reporting via another agency such as county SO might work, but she might have to go and do a walkin report if the county doesn't respond to calls that fall within the municipality jurisdiction.
Carrying some pepper spray isn't a bad idea as far as getting shitbag away from her if he approaches her but will probaly have the unintended consequence of making him more unstable and may cause him to escalate. Just sayin.
Restraining order vs protection order. Understand the difference.
Some advice, if you are dating her, leave her, and leave the drama behind you. Trust me, it's not worth it.
Just a friend, but BTDT.
I've investigated a number of stalking cases and incidents occur in multiple jurisdictions. The Probation office can do very little or nothing at all about Stalking without involvement by law enforcement. As a rule a business or private entity will not provide video footage to a citizen. Generally, a Probation Officer would not request video footage, law enforcement would request it after a complaint is made.
1) The victim should look into securing an Order of Protection. Suggested remedies would be that the ex-boyfriend cannot speak to her in person without her attorney present, contact her through electronic communication or come within X number of feet from her, her residence or place of employment.
2) The victim should keep a log of contact from the ex-boyfriend and document each time there was a violation of the Order of Protection. Date, time, place, witnesses, etc., should be documented and kept in chronological order in the log. Each time the order is violated, the police should be contacted and a report completed. The victim should politely ask for the report number and the officer's name, so they can be documented in the log each time the order is violated.
If the proper steps are not taken, the end of the Domestic Violence cycle and/or Stalking cycle results in death. Documenting each incident enables a prosecutor to establish a pattern and timeline. If the victim initiates contact in person, not through an attorney or law enforcement, it spoils the criminal case and there is very little law enforcement or a prosecutor can do to protect the victim.
Be careful how involved you get Will. I am not LE but I am old. One thing I have learned from my years of living life. Each party will tell a different story.... 99% of the time the truth will be found somewhere in the middle between the two. Stay out of it. The worst ass kicking I ever got was trying to break up a fight between a man and women in a bar parking lot. Stay out of it.
Be careful how involved you get Will. I am not LE but I am old. One thing I have learned from my years of living life. Each party will tell a different story.... 99% of the time the truth will be found somewhere in the middle between the two. Stay out of it. The worst ass kicking I ever got was trying to break up a fight between a man and women in a bar parking lot. Stay out of it.
The more I think about it.....this.
I knew a woman who tried to say a guy was stalking her because they lived in the same city. Dude, when interviewed, said he had gotten married, moved on, and didnt think twice.
A little more digging turned up a drama queen.
Not saying this is your friend's case but still...
Be careful how involved you get Will. I am not LE but I am old. One thing I have learned from my years of living life. Each party will tell a different story.... 99% of the time the truth will be found somewhere in the middle between the two. Stay out of it. The worst ass kicking I ever got was trying to break up a fight between a man and women in a bar parking lot. Stay out of it.
This thread with some Qs to pass the answers onto her is as "into it" as plan to get.
Two members offered some sound advice about level of involvement. Let the police deal with it.
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