View Full Version : "Multiple deputies" down in Colorado
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/31/colorado-police-working-officer-down-situation-outside-denver.html
Not a lot of details but looks like there are several casualties. Hope they off the perp(s). There's no mistaking nefarious activity on this one, if you have "multiple deputies" down someone needs killin'.
Anyone familiar with the area?
Dist. Expert 26
12-31-17, 10:27
And here we have the opposite end of the spectrum from the other thread.
I hope the officers are able to recover, and the negligence of idiots didn't cause potentially fatal hesitation.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-31-17, 10:38
Shooter is down. It’s a nice area, in an apartment complex. Just released it was a domestic disturbance. 5 deputies shot, one killed. Two civilians shot by perp. Shooter is down, believed dead.
Domestics will get your ass killed.
You going somewhere that people are already passionate and fighting.
SeriousStudent
12-31-17, 14:57
My thoughts and prayers are with those impacted by this tragedy. I do hope the wounded make a speedy recovery, and the families of the murdered find strength.
Fox is reporting this as an ambush. WTF!?
Prayers for the wounded and families of the dead.
ODMP says the subject barricaded himself then fired over 100 rounds from a rifle........
http://www.odmp.org/officer/23482-deputy-sheriff-zackari-parrish
Wow, thoughts and prayers for all involved. That just sucks. :(
Domestics will get your ass killed.
You going somewhere that people are already passionate and fighting.
That is what I have had heard, that a domestic is the worst call you can go to as a cop.
That is what I have had heard, that a domestic is the worst call you can go to as a cop.
Pretty much.
Here's why domestics can go south super quick:
Depending on situation and give how the laws are, these people know that there is a better than average chance that someone is going to jail.
DomVio in the hood? Business as usual (kinda)
DomVio in a good area? My heart will no shit skip three beats.
Because if the male goes to jail, he will lose his job, his status, his house, etc as far as he can see it. His life, to him, may as well be over.
The person already feels cornered and then the police show up.
Women have, and I hate to word it like this, signed their own death warrant by calling 911. Especially the vindictive ones trying to use the police to "scare" him. Some may well be abused, some may well not be.
So now you have a man or two showing up to your house with guns to take you away from your life because some woman wants to play victim. Because a lot of women who are seriously battered dont call anyone.
Dont misread, understanding mindset is not advocating it.
But thats why I would get butterflies if I had to go to 212 Yuppieville Ct for a domestic. Dispatchers just hear yah-yahing in the background.
So if you are going to lose your happy littke life then what more act of desperation do you have?
Delmar Johnson knows its the usual shit and will just ride, say "man this some bullshit", and want to know his bond. If it even goes that far.
Clarence Wimberly Vanderhill III will have a much more drastic reaction. He will go from "if I cant have you no one can" to "you caused this" pretty quick.
You may well see him go for his gun or catch him with a gun in his mouth and have to try to talk him down. The fights are usually over money, infidelity, or pill popping.
Those calls gave me the willies and yeah, I will admit, fear.
They have money for nice guns and nobody in a nice neighborhood with spendy cars wants to be seen dragged out of their houses in handcuffs. If they fight, it will be with a gun.
Some may put their own spin, but most will silently agree.
The hood despite its dangers is actually a lot safer than one bad day in yuppieville.
I mean....this slightly above minimum wage NOBODY is going to take me out of MY own 2 million dollar home because the bitch, whom I been keeping up for umpteen years, called 911? And now I'm going to lose MY good livelihood?
Once you peep that perspective, you will see boy will you see why....
Some of these people piss away more in a month than you make in a year.
Yeah....people will kill over that. He may not be as skilled as me but if he has initiative and drive, then a figure 8 pattern out his murderhole doesnt require skill.
I cant outrun a 5.56. Neither can anybody else.
Thats what newer officers dont think about.
Pretty much.
Here's why domestics can go south super quick:
Depending on situation and give how the laws are, these people know that there is a better than average chance that someone is going to jail.
DomVio in the hood? Business as usual (kinda)
DomVio in a good area? My heart will no shit skip three beats.
Because if the male goes to jail, he will lose his job, his status, his house, etc as far as he can see it. His life, to him, may as well be over.
The person already feels cornered and then the police show up.
Women have, and I hate to word it like this, signed their own death warrant by calling 911. Especially the vindictive ones trying to use the police to "scare" him. Some may well be abused, some may well not be.
So now you have a man or two showing up to your house with guns to take you away from your life because some woman wants to play victim. Because a lot of women who are seriously battered dont call anyone.
Dont misread, understanding mindset is not advocating it.
But thats why I would get butterflies if I had to go to 212 Yuppieville Ct for a domestic. Dispatchers just hear yah-yahing in the background.
So if you are going to lose your happy littke life then what more act of desperation do you have?
Delmar Johnson knows its the usual shit and will just ride, say "man this some bullshit", and want to know his bond. If it even goes that far.
Clarence Wimberly Vanderhill III will have a much more drastic reaction. He will go from "if I cant have you no one can" to "you caused this" pretty quick.
You may well see him go for his gun or catch him with a gun in his mouth and have to try to talk him down. The fights are usually over money, infidelity, or pill popping.
Those calls gave me the willies and yeah, I will admit, fear.
They have money for nice guns and nobody in a nice neighborhood with spendy cars wants to be seen dragged out of their houses in handcuffs. If they fight, it will be with a gun.
Some may put their own spin, but most will silently agree.
The hood despite its dangers is actually a lot safer than one bad day in yuppieville.
I mean....this slightly above minimum wage NOBODY is going to take me out of MY own 2 million dollar home because the bitch, whom I been keeping up for umpteen years, called 911? And now I'm going to lose MY good livelihood?
Once you peep that perspective, you will see boy will you see why....
Some of these people piss away more in a month than you make in a year.
Yeah....people will kill over that. He may not be as skilled as me but if he has initiative and drive, then a figure 8 pattern out his murderhole doesnt require skill.
I cant outrun a 5.56. Neither can anybody else.
Thats what newer officers dont think about.
I remember about 25 years ago the laws in my state basically changed to if there is pc of domestic assault (which includes threats) then someone was going to jail. They told us no choice- hook 'em up if you have pc. She said he threatened me, well he goes to jail. Even a misdemeanor domestic assault charge will ruin lives, so yes it makes domestics in the affluent neighborhoods much more dangerous in my experience.
VERY interesting take on domestics. Thanks fellas. It makes sense when you think about it.
OJ set in motion the current spate of laws we have regarding DV. Having seen my own father hit my mother I have nothing but disgust for true abusers, whether they be the occasional ones or habitual. Like hit-you-in-the-head-with-a-bat (TWICE!) level of disgust. That said, the "new" laws of the last 2+ decades have spawned and encouraged the lying, vindictive accusations of some real twats. And yes, it is almost always the biotch playing the victim. I can easily see how the "someone's going to jail regardless" policy, especially since it's usually the guys, can spark dangerous reactions. Again, I have nothing but utter disdain for actual abusers, but the manipulative behavior of some of the "gentler gender" has only been encouraged by the laws in place. "I'll fix his ass" becomes much easier, but they discount the chain of events that it might actually set off.
And the cops walk right into the middle of it.......
That is what I have had heard, that a domestic is the worst call you can go to as a cop.
If you actually look at the stats you'd find that isn't true in terms of fatal assaults.
If you look at the case studies of officers killed on domestics, a number of them broke basic safety rules such as don't park in front of the call location, don't walk up the walk to the front door and don't knock on the door and stand there like your the Avon lady. Simple shit like that that doesn't take a tactical genius to understand.
Problem is cops get complacent, and unfortunately many are mentored by other officers who don't have a ****ing clue about officer safety and tactics.
A lot of times we give folks the opportunity to make things worse than they need to be.
Perfect example, not too long ago someone posted a video of an officer basically getting chased down a hallway, and ultimately put down to the ground by the assailant, remember the back up officer killed the assailant?
How prepared do you think the first officer was when tones of fun came out on him? Not very because he hadn't prepared with the appropriate level of force for the call he was on.
If the officer would have knocked on that do with his OC in his support hand, concealed, and maintained some degree of reactionary gap, when tons of fun advanced on him, guess what should have happened? OC up up, announce SPRAY to startle the guy, and 3 seconds to the guys face as the officer sidesteps, in most cases problem over, even if it isn't the officer is still able to manuever - he bought time and space and the assailant is no longer 100%. I mean really, who carries a quick draw OC holder? You need that stuff ready.
Same thing with the ASP. If it is in hand, concealed, the officer doesn't spend the first seconds of the fight trying to scramble back as he/she clears the ASP. Instead the officer is able to move as they expand the asp and then practice hitting the ball off the tee.
You probably can figure how to work a scenario with the TASER and get the same results.
And what if the guy is all friendly and seemingly not a threat? Keep it concealed until you are sure, then either shove it in your back pocket, or put it back in it's holder/holster.
I've responded to numerous DV's using those tactics, I feel it made me and the subject's safer. But what really made me safer was the fact that I wasn't embarrassed or too high speed to follow the basic safety rules of my profession.
In many cases, we do it to ourselves.
BTW: I know nothing about the Denver incident other than what I've read on this thread, none of the above was written regarding that incident. My thoughts and prayer are with the familiy of the fallen officer, and the officer's colleagues.
If you actually look at the stats you'd find that isn't true in terms of fatal assaults.
If you look at the case studies of officers killed on domestics, a number of them broke basic safety rules such as don't park in front of the call location, don't walk up the walk to the front door and don't knock on the door and stand there like your the Avon lady. Simple shit like that that doesn't take a tactical genius to understand.
Problem is cops get complacent, and unfortunately many are mentored by other officers who don't have a ****ing clue about officer safety and tactics.
So question for you: I don't think you're advocating going in like a SWAT team or being Harvey Hard-Ass, but your demeanor as a 50% uninvited third party in those situations, where the call indeed eventually turns out to be some vindictive woman, could have an enormous impact on the attitude and reactions of the other 50% of the equation (i.e. the one who didn't invite you).
I realize it's a precarious line to walk, but if he's a snotty, drunk asshole and she is obviously battered, it's a no-brainer. However, if he's calm and rolls his eyes at the accusations like "Yeah, I figured the bitch would pull a stunt like this" then how YOU carry yourself could make things go one way or another, no?
I will add that the laws some states have that even yelling or breaking property you own, even without physical contact, constitutes DV are bullshit.
Diamondback
12-31-17, 21:40
Prayers for the fallen officer, his ijunred colleagues and their families. And thanks for the perspective, LEO boardmates. I happen to find myself in any of you guys' neighborhoods, I'm buyin' the cold ones.
As Sgt. Esterhaus used to say, "Hey, let's be careful out there."
Prayers for the fallen officer, his ijunred colleagues and their families. And thanks for the perspective, LEO boardmates. I happen to find myself in any of you guys' neighborhoods, I'm buyin' the cold ones.
As Sgt. Esterhaus used to say, "Hey, let's be careful out there."
LOL, you must be "old" too if you remember that! ;)
Diamondback
12-31-17, 21:56
LOL, you must be "old" too if you remember that! ;)
Mom was a fan when I was a kid--I was born only a few years before you Joined Up, going by your sig. :)
Mom was a fan when I was a kid--I was born only a few years before you Joined Up, going by your sig. :)
Oh hell.......:secret:
So question for you: I don't think you're advocating going in like a SWAT team or being Harvey Hard-Ass, but your demeanor as a 50% uninvited third party in those situations, where the call indeed eventually turns out to be some vindictive woman, could have an enormous impact on the attitude and reactions of the other 50% of the equation (i.e. the one who didn't invite you).
I realize it's a precarious line to walk, but if he's a snotty, drunk asshole and she is obviously battered, it's a no-brainer. However, if he's calm and rolls his eyes at the accusations like "Yeah, I figured the bitch would pull a stunt like this" then how YOU carry yourself could make things go one way or another, no?
I will add that the laws some states have that even yelling or breaking property you own, even without physical contact, constitutes DV are bullshit.
I'll respond to your last question first: it depends on how the law is written and what the property ownership status is. One of the problems we had when our state initially mandated arrests for DV assault was that some officers abused dual arrests, because, for the most part, they thought the gal was asking for/deserving of the treatment she received. Many of the dual arrests were for what prosecutors found to be defensive actions. In one case I backed another Deputy on a call, he decided he was going to make a dual arrest until I took him aside and said 'Butch, you might want to rethink that, because my supplemental won't support it.' We weren't best buds forever prior, and that certainly put the kibosh on ever.
Another problem is officers often sympathize with the guy they are arresting.
The last DV arrest I made was called in by a neighbor, he reported that his next door neighbors were having a loud argument and when he looked outside his neighbor had his (next door neighbor's) wife pushed back on the hood of his truck and was choking her, she got away and went inside and the neighbor called the police.
When I got their she came to the door and siad everything was cool, there hadn't been a problem. There were marks on her neck which corroborated what the reporting party had reported so I made entry and after calming the husband down, negotiated with him a bit and ended up arresting him with no problems. The key to a peaceful arrest in this case was my promise to get a tape from his truck and put it in his jail property.
On the way to the station we got to talking and he explained that he was an OTR driver and had been suspicious of his wife so he put a recorder on the line. Upon his return he was treated to a tape full of his wife and a local business owner setting up trysts and talking about them.
You ain't human if you don't feel for any person in those straits.
How do you control those situations without making them go south?
1. Make sure they understand by your actions and demeanor that this ain't your first rodeo, even if it is. That doesn't mean be arrogant and overbearing, simply convey by body language and positioning that you are alert and ready to deal with whatever comes up.
2. Don't answer anger with anger. If they are shouting, don't shout back, talk low and slow, this usually gets them to make extra effort to listen to you and lowers their threshold.
3. Try to introduce yourself 'Hello, I'm Steve Jones with the Fvcknuckle Junction PD, what's going on?'
4. Don't express disdain for filthy conditions, dress, odor, or what the subject has done, people reject the rejector's.
and so on....generally treat them as you would like to be treated in the same circumstances - except you cant let them go LOL.
I'll respond to your last question first: it depends on how the law is written and what the property ownership status is. One of the problems we had when our state initially mandated arrests for DV assault was that some officers abused dual arrests, because, for the most part, they thought the gal was asking for/deserving of the treatment she received. Many of the dual arrests were for what prosecutors found to be defensive actions. In one case I backed another Deputy on a call, he decided he was going to make a dual arrest until I took him aside and said 'Butch, you might want to rethink that, because my supplemental won't support it.' We weren't best buds forever prior, and that certainly put the kibosh on ever.
Another problem is officers often sympathize with the guy they are arresting.
The last DV arrest I made was called in by a neighbor, he reported that his next door neighbors were having a loud argument and when he looked outside his neighbor had his (next door neighbor's) wife pushed back on the hood of his truck and was choking her, she got away and went inside and the neighbor called the police.
When I got their she came to the door and siad everything was cool, there hadn't been a problem. There were marks on her neck which corroborated what the reporting party had reported so I made entry and after calming the husband down, negotiated with him a bit and ended up arresting him with no problems. The key to a peaceful arrest in this case was my promise to get a tape from his truck and put it in his jail property.
On the way to the station we got to talking and he explained that he was an OTR driver and had been suspicious of his wife so he put a recorder on the line. Upon his return he was treated to a tape full of his wife and a local business owner setting up trysts and talking about them.
You ain't human if you don't feel for any person in those straits.
How do you control those situations without making them go south?
1. Make sure they understand by your actions and demeanor that this ain't your first rodeo, even if it is. That doesn't mean be arrogant and overbearing, simply convey by body language and positioning that you are alert and ready to deal with whatever comes up.
2. Don't answer anger with anger. If they are shouting, don't shout back, talk low and slow, this usually gets them to make extra effort to listen to you and lowers their threshold.
3. Try to introduce yourself 'Hello, I'm Steve Jones with the Fvcknuckle Junction PD, what's going on?'
4. Don't express disdain for filthy conditions, dress, odor, or what the subject has done, people reject the rejector's.
and so on....generally treat them as you would like to be treated in the same circumstances - except you cant let them go LOL.
You’re a good man. Thank you for your service.
You’re a good man. Thank you for your service.
Thank you, but in terms of career I thank Mom, the Marines, and Sgt. Richard Shull (RIP) who taught me well when I was a broken legged rookie (literally) riding with him on third shift.
Straight f*cking wisdom
This, exactly this. DV's are the calls where my heart rate noticeably goes up. I'd rather make a felony stop with a gang banger or be in a pursuit. DV's kill cops and I wish they would scare the new guys at the academy about this more.
This, exactly this. DV's are the calls where my heart rate noticeably goes up. I'd rather make a felony stop with a gang banger or be in a pursuit. DV's kill cops and I wish they would scare the new guys at the academy about this more.
I agree but I don't think "scare" is the proper word, through. Scared is what makes an officer pull the trigger on a guy who is unarmed and 40 yards reaching for a screen door handle.
IOn the way to the station we got to talking and he explained that he was an OTR driver and had been suspicious of his wife so he put a recorder on the line. Upon his return he was treated to a tape full of his wife and a local business owner setting up trysts and talking about them.
You ain't human if you don't feel for any person in those straits.
Now I'm not saying that he was justified for doing that, although with infidelity I can certainly understand the urge to do so! Sad part is, now not only does he get a DV conviction but even if he played that tape in court at his divorce in all likelihood it won't matter one damn bit. He'll still get the usual "guy screwing" in the divorce proceedings. Good thing you didn't remind him of that little tidbit (like "You're soooo screwed dude!") as that just might have made the encounter have a different turn of events!
I’m getting to watch one of these things play out at close range. I have NO illusions left about Lady “Justice” anymore.
“The Revolution—she is a whore.”
Averageman
01-01-18, 12:39
The whole idea of DV is foreign to me. For the life of me I can't understand the concept of staying in place once voices are raised and anger gets to the point where you think about putting some hands on your spouse.
Money, infidelity, drugs, yeah it's heart breaking, but that didn't happen overnight. You pack a parachute for skydiving, you have a lifejacket when boating....
The whole issue is about emotional maturity and control. You can't control someone who's out of control, you can't apply logic with someone who's nuts.
What you can do is know when to cut the cord, take the loss and walk away.
When going down that bobsled ride to hell and beating your wife's ass and then shooting it out with the Cops sounds like a reasonable response to losing everything you own, well brother, you already lost. You should have climbed out at the starting gate.
The system is rigged, divorce is an industry and if you're a man the deck is stacked against you.
Walk before you have to run.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-01-18, 15:54
The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. Maybe you went from love to indifference and turned the horn and went from indifference to hate. I just don't get multiple victims or perpetrators of DV. It's not rational for either party.
Averageman
01-01-18, 16:31
The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. Maybe you went from love to indifference and turned the horn and went from indifference to hate. I just don't get multiple victims or perpetrators of DV. It's not rational for either party.
People can go from 0 to full blown bat crap crazy when they feel their lives are ruined and everything is going to be taken away from them.
I've seen a couple of guys come home from deployment and "home" left a couple of months ago with the Wife making an exit with Jody and the kids. That kind of emotional brutality from the woman you loved will make even a good man question what he will do next.
If you're already half way there, something like taking a gun and ambushing the Police when they come to your house to respond to the DV call, is just another way to suicide by Cop.
It's a brutal world, it's even worse when your half broken already.
I've dealt with this in my own failed marriage and tried to help a couple of friends along the way when I got back on my feet.
I agree but I don't think "scare" is the proper word, through. Scared is what makes an officer pull the trigger on a guy who is unarmed and 40 yards reaching for a screen door handle.
Scare was the wrong word. Awareness of the potential risks should really be increased.
Inculcate > scare
A scared officer is a dumb officer is a useless officer
thebarracuda
01-01-18, 21:02
I'll respond to your last question first: it depends on how the law is written and what the property ownership status is. One of the problems we had when our state initially mandated arrests for DV assault was that some officers abused dual arrests, because, for the most part, they thought the gal was asking for/deserving of the treatment she received. Many of the dual arrests were for what prosecutors found to be defensive actions. In one case I backed another Deputy on a call, he decided he was going to make a dual arrest until I took him aside and said 'Butch, you might want to rethink that, because my supplemental won't support it.' We weren't best buds forever prior, and that certainly put the kibosh on ever.
Another problem is officers often sympathize with the guy they are arresting.
The last DV arrest I made was called in by a neighbor, he reported that his next door neighbors were having a loud argument and when he looked outside his neighbor had his (next door neighbor's) wife pushed back on the hood of his truck and was choking her, she got away and went inside and the neighbor called the police.
When I got their she came to the door and siad everything was cool, there hadn't been a problem. There were marks on her neck which corroborated what the reporting party had reported so I made entry and after calming the husband down, negotiated with him a bit and ended up arresting him with no problems. The key to a peaceful arrest in this case was my promise to get a tape from his truck and put it in his jail property.
On the way to the station we got to talking and he explained that he was an OTR driver and had been suspicious of his wife so he put a recorder on the line. Upon his return he was treated to a tape full of his wife and a local business owner setting up trysts and talking about them.
You ain't human if you don't feel for any person in those straits.
How do you control those situations without making them go south?
1. Make sure they understand by your actions and demeanor that this ain't your first rodeo, even if it is. That doesn't mean be arrogant and overbearing, simply convey by body language and positioning that you are alert and ready to deal with whatever comes up.
2. Don't answer anger with anger. If they are shouting, don't shout back, talk low and slow, this usually gets them to make extra effort to listen to you and lowers their threshold.
3. Try to introduce yourself 'Hello, I'm Steve Jones with the Fvcknuckle Junction PD, what's going on?'
4. Don't express disdain for filthy conditions, dress, odor, or what the subject has done, people reject the rejector's.
and so on....generally treat them as you would like to be treated in the same circumstances - except you cant let them go LOL.
Very well put.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-02-18, 00:56
People can go from 0 to full blown bat crap crazy when they feel their lives are ruined and everything is going to be taken away from them.
I've seen a couple of guys come home from deployment and "home" left a couple of months ago with the Wife making an exit with Jody and the kids. That kind of emotional brutality from the woman you loved will make even a good man question what he will do next.
If you're already half way there, something like taking a gun and ambushing the Police when they come to your house to respond to the DV call, is just another way to suicide by Cop.
It's a brutal world, it's even worse when your half broken already.
I've dealt with this in my own failed marriage and tried to help a couple of friends along the way when I got back on my feet.
You sell yourself short, you are an above the average man ;)
I agree but I don't think "scare" is the proper word, through. Scared is what makes an officer pull the trigger on a guy who is unarmed and 40 yards reaching for a screen door handle.
In fairness, being "unarmed" has no bearing on the use of lethal force. I get your point, however.
In fairness, being "unarmed" has no bearing on the use of lethal force. I get your point, however.
Can you clarify what you mean or give an example where lethal force may be justified against an unarmed individual? I'm not challenging your statement, just asking for knowlege/clarity.
I consider someone trying to run over an officer to be armed (with a deadly vehicle).
Andy
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-02-18, 12:26
Can you clarify what you mean or give an example where lethal force may be justified against an unarmed individual? I'm not challenging your statement, just asking for knowlege/clarity.
I consider someone trying to run over an officer to be armed (with a deadly vehicle).
Andy
Attempting to take weapons from officer, beating officer in fight, etc.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-02-18, 13:04
http://lawofficer.com/news/listen-radio-traffic-fatal-colorado-deputy-shooting/
Radio traffic. First audio starts at 18:18.
Leaveammoforme
01-02-18, 13:28
Small world. Brother and sister-in-law are heading to Colorado.
SIL is a close friend of Deputy Parrishs' wife. Deputy Parrishs' wife and I were in my brothers wedding together in which I gave a dorky toast comparing pistols to marriage.
If you would, keep my SIL in your prayers along side the Parrish family.
Train hard and stay safe fellas.
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