Time to change my gas rings?

[ryder021970]

Guys
I'm new to the forum and just got my first rifle; its an Elisco M16A1. I check the bolt and its gas rings by standing it on its end and the BCG slides down about 1/8 of an inch before it stopped. My friends all say its time to change out the gas rings or I'll have malfunctions.
Is that true? Or do I still have a little way to go before I have to change them out? Am okay either way as I have bought a set already anyway. I'm just eager to learn. Thanks!
49573

[user]

Welcome friend. Really like your rifle. I believe you might have a bit more life in those rings as described. How’s it shoot? Function ok?

[LoboTBL]

Welcome!

Nice rifle! As long as the carrier doesn't go all the way down when you stand it up on the bolt, you're fine.

How does it shoot?

[ryder021970]

Welcome friend. Really like your rifle. I believe you might have a bit more life in those rings as described. How’s it shoot? Function ok?

Thanks, User. I haven't taken her out to the range yet; was busy giving her some much needed TLC. The front sight post has some pitting already as the rifle was stored in a carton box under a bed for some time ( !!!!! ) and there was some surface rust on the outer surface the barrel. The internals seem okay though. Anyway, range time will show how well - or bad - she shoots.

[ryder021970]

Thanks, LoboTBL.
I was hoping you'd say that as I believe there cannot be 100% seal unless the gas rings are brand new. And I read somewhere before that with this much play, I could still shoot her reliably for a good while. I will take her out to the range as soon as I can.

[GH41]

Ryder, just out of curiosity... What does something like that cost in PH?

[bamashooter]

Welcome to the forum. It never seizes to amaze me what Filipinos can build, mod, or restore on items ranging from firearms to off-road vehicles.

[RHINOWSO]

Welcome to the forum. It never seizes to amaze me what Filipinos can build, mod, or restore on items ranging from firearms to off-road vehicles.

I was watching a show on the local firearm industry in the PI. Amazing how many make all sorts of firearms, from handguns to machine guns - much like we have car audio shops, they have local firearm manufacturers!

[scooter22]

What are the laws there ?


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[ziklag]

Will defer to those with more experience about the gas rings... just wanted to say welcome & nice rifle!

[GSMullins]

Guys
I'm new to the forum and just got my first rifle; its an Elisco M16A1. I check the bolt and its gas rings by standing it on its end and the BCG slides down about 1/8 of an inch before it stopped. My friends all say its time to change out the gas rings or I'll have malfunctions.
Is that true? Or do I still have a little way to go before I have to change them out? Am okay either way as I have bought a set already anyway. I'm just eager to learn. Thanks!
49573

The correct test for worn rings is to hold the bolt carrier vertical, with the bolt face pointing down; push the bolt fully into the carrier and release. If the bolt falls out to full extension, it's time for new gas rings. Otherwise, carry on.

[ryder021970]

I was watching a show on the local firearm industry in the PI. Amazing how many make all sorts of firearms, from handguns to machine guns - much like we have car audio shops, they have local firearm manufacturers!

If you caught the news about the battle in our south ( Battle of Marawi ) a few months ago, you would see the homemade 50BMG sniper rifles those terrorists had. :) The Army literally leveled the city to kill every single last one of them

[ryder021970]

The correct test for worn rings is to hold the bolt carrier vertical, with the bolt face pointing down; push the bolt fully into the carrier and release. If the bolt falls out to full extension, it's time for new gas rings. Otherwise, carry on.

Thanks, GSMullins. I learned another thing today from this forum! Yes almost all the tests done here are to stand it on its end and see if the BCG slides down. I will share this knowledge.

[ryder021970]

Ryder, just out of curiosity... What does something like that cost in PH?

Select fire rifles go between USD2,500 to as much as USD4,000 depending on what goodies come with it. A brand new semi-auto Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport II costs USD 2,400. I once saw an H&K G36K sell for USD7,000. It was a select fire model complete with 3-shot burst trigger group.

[GH41]

Looks like the OP is gone. Can't say that I blame him. That's a nasty place unless you are connected. Maybe even if you are connected. Nice place to die though.

[ryder021970]

What are the laws there ?


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Those who already own centerfire rifles ( termed "light arms" under the law ) can continue to own them. The sale of new rifles and its ammunition has been suspended indefinitely following the recent war in Marawi because - as rumor had it - before the terrorists attacked the city, they were practicing in gun clubs and purchasing legal ammunition.... Rimfires, pistols and shotguns are not included in this ban.

[GH41]

Select fire rifles go between USD2,500 to as much as USD4,000 depending on what goodies come with it. A brand new semi-auto Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport II costs USD 2,400. I once saw an H&K G36K sell for USD7,000. It was a select fire model complete with 3-shot burst trigger group.

Sorry I had to eat and typed slow. So buying a S&W M&P is a rip off and getting a full auto M16 is reasonable. I imagine the export market for the FA guns is hot if you have balls and international connections. I can now see how the cartels acquire them.

[Iraqgunz]

That is A TEST. Colt and many others have been teaching the other method for at least 14 years. Additionally it is also being taught to military personnel as well according to students who have been in my class.


The correct test for worn rings is to hold the bolt carrier vertical, with the bolt face pointing down; push the bolt fully into the carrier and release. If the bolt falls out to full extension, it's time for new gas rings. Otherwise, carry on.

[GSMullins]

That is A TEST. Colt and many others have been teaching the other method for at least 14 years. Additionally it is also being taught to military personnel as well according to students who have been in my class.

Interesting. Always wanting to learn, could you explain why the method I suggested was "right" isn't? And where does one go to find such advanced advice?

[Iraqgunz]

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/38138153-632f-4aa9-bf04-d448d285c11a



Interesting. Always wanting to learn, could you explain why the method I suggested was "right" isn't? And where does one go to find such advanced advice?

[curious1]

Here's a link to a Colt Canada manual. A gas ring test method is shown on page 4-3
http://coltcanada.com/assets/10044s-2005-09-20.pdf
If you just look at the picture without reading the text to the test you might think you set it down on the bolt but that is not how their test is done.

[AndyLate]

Here's a link to a Colt Canada manual. A gas ring test method is shown on page 4-3
http://coltcanada.com/assets/10044s-2005-09-20.pdf
If you just look at the picture without reading the text to the test you might think you set it down on the bolt but that is not how their test is done.

Thank you for the link!

Andy

[Iraqgunz]

A. That manual is over 12 years old.

B. The test of standing the bolt on it's face is TAUGHT by Colt Defense USA

C. Military personnel who have attended my course have told me that they are learning this.

D. I have been to the Colt Armorer Course 5 times over 15 years and that method was taught in every class.

E. It's entirely possible I am just talking out of my ass.



Here's a link to a Colt Canada manual. A gas ring test method is shown on page 4-3
http://coltcanada.com/assets/10044s-2005-09-20.pdf
If you just look at the picture without reading the text to the test you might think you set it down on the bolt but that is not how their test is done.

[26 Inf]

Between the two methods - 1) cam pin removed - holding BCG with bolt down and checking to see if it falls out; and 2) sitting the BCG on the bolt fact with the bolt extended then seeing if it collapses - it seems to me that the method allowing the bolt to fall out of the carrier would allow the rings to become more worn before they failed the test because the bolt is lighter than the bolt carrier.

My thought is that the other method (the way Colt USA teaches) would catch the rings earlier and therefore allow replacement before you had cycling issues.

I would think erring on the side of caution and using the Colt USA method would be the way to go.

Make sense?

[grizzman]

I have an old POS DPMS upper I bought fairly early in the AWB era that still has the original rings. It completely fails the standing test (even with a semi carrier), but passes the hanging test with ease. I haven't shot it in quite a few years, but it was always completely reliable.

I agree that the standing method is likely a more stringent test, likely to catch ring wear before the hanging test.

[curious1]

There are so many different styles and weight carriers I am not sure using the standing method would even give the same results between different carriers with every possible level of wear on the rings.

[Sancho Panza]

Could just splurge, & spend the $3 to replace them; if in doubt.

[AndyLate]

Could just splurge, & spend the $3 to replace them; if in doubt.

You read my mind.

Andy

[Jmedic_]

Could just splurge, & spend the $3 to replace them; if in doubt.

You’re comment made me chuckle. But, I agree. Go ahead OP, treat yo self, you’ve earned it. Hell, get really crazy and order them in a three pack from Sprinco, like I do.

[26 Inf]

I use the McFarland 1 piecer's at $3.99 each. That way when I'm operating operationally I don't have to worry about the three rings aligning and causing malfunctions or increasing blowback enough to knock my eyepro off when I need to take a critical followup shot.

:jester:

I actually do use the McFarland's as replacements. I bought three early on, just because, and still have two left. Having a bunch of AR's helps spread the wear out.

[ScottsBad]

Welcome. You probably don't NEED to change the gas rings as an AR will run with practically no gas rings for a period of time, but gas rings are cheap. So, if you feel like trying it, buy a couple sets of rings and replace them. The reason I say buy a couple sets is because they are cheap, and you might break or bend one on your first try. Then you'll also have spares. You can easily do it yourself with a little patience.

BTW - Nice rifle.

[ryder021970]

Welcome. You probably don't NEED to change the gas rings as an AR will run with practically no gas rings for a period of time, but gas rings are cheap. So, if you feel like trying it, buy a couple sets of rings and replace them. The reason I say buy a couple sets is because they are cheap, and you might break or bend one on your first try. Then you'll also have spares. You can easily do it yourself with a little patience.

BTW - Nice rifle.

Thanks for the suggestion. I picked up a couple at our local gunstore and went to my gunsmith and asked him to take a look. His assessment is the same as all the comments here: no need to change them out as they're still very much in good condition. so I have a big smile on my face.

[grizzman]

What method did the gunsmith use to determine that the rings are fine?

[ryder021970]

Could just splurge, & spend the $3 to replace them; if in doubt.


Hahaha, best damn advise I got! i already did and went to my gunsmith after. Well to make a long story short, he said my gas rings are still very much in good condition and dont need to be replaced now. So I have a couple of sets extra. BTW I live in the Philippines and McFarland gas rings cost USD10 each set.

[ryder021970]

What method did the gunsmith use to determine that the rings are fine?

Standing method. Everyone here used that or suggested that to me.