View Full Version : POF Roller Cam Upgrade?
Hey guys,
I was just reading about Ned's staking tool and then transitioned thoughts toward the POF roller cam might make a good upgrade.
I know a couple guys on here have tried them out, such as Stickman, but I wanted to get the definitive rundown on if it works and is it worth it?
My logical brain assumes that any wear the upper receiver gets from the cam pin would just occur to the point where that upper is just broken in?
My sample of one says it works, but that isn’t with a super high round count. I’m also willing to point out that while in MIL & LE service, I’ve never seen a huge cam pin issue. That doesn’t mean things can’t be made better, and I freely admit I’ve never heard of or seen a problem with the POF cam pin.
My logical brain assumes that any wear the upper receiver gets from the cam pin would just occur to the point where that upper is just broken in?
Yep. That's it.
crosseyedshooter
01-05-18, 18:34
I just added one to my MCX and manually cycling the bolt definitely feels smoother. My understanding is that it is more beneficial to piston operated guns that use carrier inertia to unlock the bolt. It might also reduce the friction when the bolt picks up a new cartridge from the magazine and the cam slides against the receiver. I’ve never read of this being an actual problem. On a regular AR, I probably wouldn’t spend $20 on a roller to save cosmetic wear from a $60 upper receiver.
I've been running them in my rifles for several years and very happy with them. Haven't had any failures and they do seem to smooth the action ever so slightly.
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They really shine more in piston guns than DI guns, although they will still smooth out DI guns a little too. They are very high quality and durable, coated in NP3.
I’d roll it right into the trash can. Another solution in search of a problem from a questionable company IMO.
I’d roll it right into the trash can. Another solution in search of a problem from a questionable company IMO.
Agreed. I wouldn't own anything remotely related to POF.
Agreed. I wouldn't own anything remotely related to POF.
Is there something bad about POF I don’t know about? If there is please let me know because I don’t want to buy stuff from a company that’s not pro second amendment. I just heard that story about the owner of Rand CLP.
They cause extra damage if used in carbines and SBRs running cans.
Increased duration of pressure spike blows through chamber against the bolt face after unlock and causes the BCG to be pushed to the rear, tipping the cam pin into the inside of the upper.
Having the total surface area of the pin reduced from the flat fixed pin to a much smaller contact surface of the round pin creates a nice divot right behind the cam pin relief cutout. And no, i'm not talking about the typical wear leading into the relief cutout that most people complain about.
Might work better in non-suppressed platforms.
There’s a thread on TOS talking about high (6 digits) round count rental auto guns. If I remember correctly, he found that the roller cam pins broke earlier than regular ones. These M4’s see more than the average “shoot it until it breaks”, of course.
Mine has around 5k on it but none of that has been full auto.
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Damage pic for reference:
49628
Damage pic for reference:
49628
That's interesting, damn.
Also, what's the deal w/ POF? I see guys like Kyle Lamb repping them, so
That's interesting, damn.
Also, what's the deal w/ POF? I see guys like Kyle Lamb repping them, so
Indeed he does: https://pof-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Kyle-Lamb-article.pdf
Indeed he does: https://pof-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Kyle-Lamb-article.pdf
See, so it's tough for a guy like me because I really like Kyle Lamb's stuff -own a few books and hopefully, can get some training as a plain jane civ. So I guess celebrity endorsements work. Although I havent heard why POF is sucky?
I’d roll it right into the trash can. Another solution in search of a problem from a questionable company IMO.
I agree with this guy simply due to his avatar,
Damage pic for reference:
49628
Grumps, that's from a POF cam pin??
If it has the the same performance as the part it's meant to an improvement of, and doesn't do it any better, in fact doesn't perform as well as the factory part, it's not an upgrade at all, but a down grade.
crosseyedshooter
01-18-18, 14:54
Damage pic for reference:
49628
Maybe I missed it, did this happen on a piston or DI gun? It’s amazing that, after unlocking, the bolt face can still be hit with such force to cause the cam pin to impact the upper like that. Just goes to show how complex the operation of these simple machines really are.
Maybe I missed it, did this happen on a piston or DI gun? It’s amazing that, after unlocking, the bolt face can still be hit with such force to cause the cam pin to impact the upper like that. Just goes to show how complex the operation of these simple machines really are.I'd have to see that happen in other examples before settling on a decision. Mine hasn't shown anything like that over the course of several thousand round rounds.
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crosseyedshooter
01-18-18, 15:25
I'd have to see that happen in other examples before settling on a decision. Mine hasn't shown anything like that over the course of several thousand round rounds.
If it’s not happening during extraction, then it’s happening during chambering of the round. I’m just trying to imagine what the sequence of events are to cause the receiver damage in the photo.
I’d roll it right into the trash can. Another solution in search of a problem from a questionable company IMO.
Agreed. I wouldn't own anything remotely related to POF.
Care to elaborate? Asking because I was close to pulling the trigger on one of their Renegade models. Always thought POF was good to go. What am I missing?
Care to elaborate? Asking because I was close to pulling the trigger on one of their Renegade models. Always thought POF was good to go. What am I missing?You may grow old waiting on true answer
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They cause extra damage if used in carbines and SBRs running cans.
Increased duration of pressure spike blows through chamber against the bolt face after unlock and causes the BCG to be pushed to the rear, tipping the cam pin into the inside of the upper.
Having the total surface area of the pin reduced from the flat fixed pin to a much smaller contact surface of the round pin creates a nice divot right behind the cam pin relief cutout. And no, i'm not talking about the typical wear leading into the relief cutout that most people complain about.
Might work better in non-suppressed platforms.
Wouldn't an adjustable gas block, dedicated gas port, or gas port insert, resolve that problem though?
Grumps, that's from a POF cam pin??
Yes. In an HK.
Maybe I missed it, did this happen on a piston or DI gun? It’s amazing that, after unlocking, the bolt face can still be hit with such force to cause the cam pin to impact the upper like that. Just goes to show how complex the operation of these simple machines really are.
Best I can figure is that when shooting suppressed (which I do quite often) there's enough residual bore/chamber pressure after unlock to shove the bolt rearward faster then the carrier is moving which in turn forces the cam to the side and impacting the receiver.
If it’s not happening during extraction, then it’s happening during chambering of the round. I’m just trying to imagine what the sequence of events are to cause the receiver damage in the photo.
Two places the cam pin would have cause to impact the inside of the receiver like that. Where the cam pin is located when it comes into contact with the rear of the top round in a magazine and the bolt has to overcome the inertia of the top round being held in the magazine, and then where the extractor has to over ride the rim of the case during the chambering phase of operation.
Seeing as how the cam is clear of the receiver at that point, I doubt it's happening during chambering.
Wouldn't an adjustable gas block, dedicated gas port, or gas port insert, resolve that problem though?
It's an HK. I do have an AGR, but I won't use it at this point. I SBR'd the gun, chopped the barrel to 10.5, and modded the gas port to run with a factory 16" gas block.
I opened the port just far enough to pass the lock back test so I can run it suppressed without making the bolt speed excessive. I took the POF roller cam out and the damage seems to have stabilized.
Yes. In an HK.
Wow. There goes their theory about preventing upper receiver damage. Thanks for busting that one!
Wondering why there have been no other report of that type of damage especially from POF owners which also run gas guns??? I mean the Ruger piston guns existed an issue with the BCG bolt tilt and the owners were quick to point it out. Haven't seen that type of feedback from POF owners.......
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RVTMaverick
01-19-18, 10:01
Hey 26 Inf.,
The link you posted, I remember reading about this POF when the mag. 1st came out but there isn't anything but Praise for it...
5000 rounds running WOLF with only 2 failures because of the dust cover pin issue... once they removed the dust cover, they never had another problem!
Jeff
Indeed he does: https://pof-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Kyle-Lamb-article.pdf
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