DNC, FusionGPS, Steele and finally the FBI. [Archive]

Averageman

01-10-18, 20:16

https://www.buzzfeed.com/emmaloop/dossier-author-alleged-the-fbi-had-a-corroborating-source?ref=hvper.com&utm_term=.fnevzwQJe#.sx0nDz4wg

The FBI had evidence that lent credence to an explosive dossier alleging links between Russia and then-candidate Donald Trump, from a source within either Trump’s campaign or business, according to the head of the firm that commissioned the dossier.

Glenn Simpson, founder of Fusion GPS, which commissioned former British spy Christopher Steele to write the dossier, told Senate investigators in August that Steele indicated the FBI “had other intelligence about this matter from an internal Trump campaign source,” according an interview transcript released Tuesday.

Simpson later clarified that he was uncertain whether that source was a member of Trump’s campaign or his business, the Trump Organization.

“[M]y understanding was that they believed Chris at this point — that they believed Chris's information might be credible because they had other intelligence that indicated the same thing and one of those pieces of intelligence was a human source from inside the Trump organization,” Simpson told the Senate Judiciary Committee.

“It was someone like us who decided to pick up the phone and report something,” Simpson said of the source. He declined, however, to name that person, citing "security."

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/368210-five-takeaways-from-the-fusion-gps-testimony

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (Calif.), the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, on Tuesday unilaterally released more than 300 pages documenting an interview the panel conducted in August with the founder of the opposition research firm that commissioned a controversial dossier on President Trump.

But while Simpson described his own opposition research work as dealing with hard facts laid out in public records and court filings, he acknowledged that Steele’s endeavors were more subjective and murky and open to interpretation.

According to Simpson, Steele was so concerned by the possibility that a presidential candidate might be “blackmailed” by Russia that he reached out to the FBI of his own accord to share what he knew was “a security issue.”

Steele first met with the bureau in the first week of July 2016. He later met an agent in Rome in the fall, a trip that the bureau reimbursed. The bureau launched its investigation into the Trump campaign in late July.

But according to Simpson, Steele cut off his contact with the bureau after the Times ran a story in the fall alleging that the Trump campaign was not under investigation. The former spy was concerned that “the FBI was being manipulated for political ends by the Trump people and that we didn't really understand what was going on.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-interview-transcript-released-by-dianne-feinstein-2018-1

Simpson said Steele thought there was "a security issue about whether a presidential candidate was being blackmailed."

"From my perspective, there was a law enforcement issue about whether there was an illegal conspiracy to violate the campaign laws, and then somewhere in this time the whole issue of hacking has also surfaced," Simpson said.

He said later: "You know, I agreed, it's potentially a crime in progress. So, you know, if we can do that in the most appropriate way, I said it was OK for him to do that."

The FBI called Steele back in September and asked him to tell it everything he knew, Simpson said, because it had obtained information from "a human source from inside the Trump Organization" who "was concerned about the same concerns we had" and spoke to the bureau on a "voluntary" basis.

The FBI had in July 2016 opened a counterintelligence investigation into Russia interference in the election, James Comey, the former FBI director, testified in March 2017. But it is not clear whether the bureau told Steele about the ongoing investigation when agents sat down with him in September.

Reading this in whole, watching, listening and reading the media on it, I believe it was the perfect set up.
Follow the CoC within the Government, follow the antics of what was going on in the DNC and then look at the layers of deniability used in the processes to gather the report/dossier.
The fix was in, the RINO Never Trumpers, Hillary's campaign hiring the Law Firm who hired Fusion GPS and finally Steeledumping the story in the lap of the FBI and walking away.

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-10-18, 21:32

The FBI had evidence that lent credence to an explosive dossier alleging links between Russia and then-candidate Donald Trump, from a source within either Trump’s campaign or business, according to the head of the firm that commissioned the dossier.

This was the Australian diplo that said he talked to a drunk Papadopolus. Now the interesting thing is that Clapper and others have said that they had never heard of Popandlockadopulous and he is just coming to light now that using the dossier as a basis is getting, messy. How could Poppadoc be the key intel kernel when the people that would have had to sign off on him don't know him? Are you seriously going to say that the Popadopolous link was kept a secret all this time? When the dems have leaked anything that would hurt Trump?

Simpson said Steele thought there was "a security issue about whether a presidential candidate was being blackmailed."

This is just plain and simple self-fellating circle-jerk maneuver. You say that you think Trump is being blackmailed and that increases the value of you and your 'dossier'. That no relevant or impactful details of the dossier have been confirmed just shows how punked Steele got. He was part of a Russian disinformation campaign aimed at hurting Trump by reducing his support with evangelicals with the sex stuff and the 'Russian' angle to work on defense minded conservatives. Why that isn't clear to everyone is another big sign of Trump Induced Insanity.

Let's put it this way, what motive does Steele have to discount the crazy intel he is getting? Take the stories back and say that he can't verify them and say that it's bad intel and the Russians playing games?

Let's play a game.

Rep. Adam Schiff has sex with little girls.

49671

He met with little girls. See, we have a picture of him with little girls. The girls say nice things about him. He says nice things about little girls in the Girl Scouts. The little girls must be blackmailing Adam Schiff. The Boy Scouts told me, and I've known the Boy Scouts a long time.

That is pretty much the level of sophistication of the Dossier. Trump's people met with Russians. We have pictures of Sessions and Kissandtelliak in the same room, er conference hall. The Russians say nice things about Trump, Trump says nice things about the Russians. They must be getting ready to blackmail Trump, and Steele knows this because he has worked with the Russians for a long time.

And the biggest issue is that the left says that Trump is delusion and incompetent, but he was able to hide a data and social media targeting program between him and the Russians secret- Right. Thesea are the same people that say Trump's team was so unsophisticated they met with the Russian lawyer lady- in between her meetings with Fusion GPS. And of course, these Russians were compromising the Kompromat that Putin had on Trump- sure, that makes sense. Let me piss off the guy who whacks political enemies wherever they are in the world. Sure, that makes sense.

Honu

01-11-18, 00:00

from another article

Simpson’s (fusion GPS) recently released testimony shows that at the same time he was encouraging the FBI to investigate Trump, he was actively trying to steer the FBI away from further investigation of the Clintons.

chuckman

01-11-18, 07:25

Rep. Adam Schiff has sex with little girls.

He met with little girls. See, we have a picture of him with little girls. The girls say nice things about him. He says nice things about little girls in the Girl Scouts. The little girls must be blackmailing Adam Schiff. The Boy Scouts told me, and I've known the Boy Scouts a long time.

That is pretty much the level of sophistication of the Dossier. Trump's people met with Russians. We have pictures of Sessions and Kissandtelliak in the same room, er conference hall. The Russians say nice things about Trump, Trump says nice things about the Russians. They must be getting ready to blackmail Trump, and Steele knows this because he has worked with the Russians for a long time.

And the biggest issue is that the left says that Trump is delusion and incompetent, but he was able to hide a data and social media targeting program between him and the Russians secret- Right. Thesea are the same people that say Trump's team was so unsophisticated they met with the Russian lawyer lady- in between her meetings with Fusion GPS. And of course, these Russians were compromising the Kompromat that Putin had on Trump- sure, that makes sense. Let me piss off the guy who whacks political enemies wherever they are in the world. Sure, that makes sense.

This is a similar example I like to use, with the girls. They are trying to make a connect-the-dots picture by using a few, specifically-picked dots, then build the picture around that.

As to the last point, your are correct, and it is a point with which I make many anti-Trumpers upset: you can't be hypocritical, you can't have it both ways: you can't say he and his campaign and administration are so crafty and devious as to hide the trail of evidence to prove corruption and collusion, yet say he is incapacitated, delusional, or incompetent.

skywalkrNCSU

01-11-18, 08:20

As to the last point, your are correct, and it is a point with which I make many anti-Trumpers upset: you can't be hypocritical, you can't have it both ways: you can't say he and his campaign and administration are so crafty and devious as to hide the trail of evidence to prove corruption and collusion, yet say he is incapacitated, delusional, or incompetent.

In the same vein, with the diehard Trump supporters, you can’t cry that this is all just some conspiracy witch hunt when you know damn well if Hillary was elected and the exact same thing came out but against her they would be calling for the gallows rather than saying this is some big conspiracy. People are blinded by politics.

As for this whole investigation, I doubt it will play out like those on the left hope but I think there is at least something there worth looking into. Just let Mueller finish his investigation and see what it turns up. If Trump and team did something illegal I hope it is found just like I would with any politician.

Whiskey_Bravo

01-11-18, 08:56

Just let Mueller finish his investigation and see what it turns up..

Ahh yes, the never ending investigation that just needs more time. Why do I have a feeling it will go just long enough to get into the pre 2020 election cycle?

#russiamademedoit

skywalkrNCSU

01-11-18, 09:12

Ahh yes, the never ending investigation that just needs more time. Why do I have a feeling it will go just long enough to get into the pre 2020 election cycle?

#russiamademedoit

I mean, do you think FBI investigations are done overnight? This just goes back to my original point that if this same thing was happening to President Hillary Clinton in an alternate universe you would not be responding this way. Just more cognitive dissonance.

Whiskey_Bravo

01-11-18, 09:20

I mean, do you think FBI investigations are done overnight? This just goes back to my original point that if this same thing was happening to President Hillary Clinton in an alternate universe you would not be responding this way. Just more cognitive dissonance.

Not overnight but how long do they need? It didn't start with Mueller right? And Mueller has been at it for what, a year now? Just wondering how far down the rabbit hole a "collusion" investigation goes that so far has only produced a process crime and funny business by a guy long before the campaign?

And yes, I would. These special counsels pretty much have carte blanche and a magical unlimtted budget. If they can't find what they are looking for in a year plus it's probably time to throw in the towel. Not start investigating decade old tax records and such that have nothing to do with the original reason for the special counsel. And I don't think Cognitive dissonance means exactly what you think it means.

skywalkrNCSU

01-11-18, 09:29

mack7.62

01-11-18, 09:30

Whiskey_Bravo

01-11-18, 09:42

The fact that more and more evidence that the Clinton's were compromised by the Russians is coming to light means the Muller witch hunt will drop the "collusion" angle and move on to the "obstruction of justice". This so called investigation had nothing to do with finding the truth and all to do with damaging a sitting elected President. This is part of a soft coup in progress.

To me this is one of the only logical explanations. The fact that Mueller and team are investigating "collusion" based on a fake oppo research doc that paid an ex British spy to dig up dirt who in turn paid Russian nationals for dirt that was all paid for by Hillary and the DNC says it all. Over a year of investigations that have yielded no "collusion" based on a fake document, but lets keep digging maybe we can find something else or catch more people in technicalities. But lets not investigate the Clinton's and their Clinton foundation for receiving donations while at the same time approving uranium sales to the scary Russians.

glocktogo

01-11-18, 10:30

Not overnight but how long do they need? It didn't start with Mueller right? And Mueller has been at it for what, a year now? Just wondering how far down the rabbit hole a "collusion" investigation goes that so far has only produced a process crime and funny business by a guy long before the campaign?

And yes, I would. These special counsels pretty much have carte blanche and a magical unlimtted budget. If they can't find what they are looking for in a year plus it's probably time to throw in the towel. Not start investigating decade old tax records and such that have nothing to do with the original reason for the special counsel. And I don't think Cognitive dissonance means exactly what you think it means.

I think it's important to point out that the Obama Administration began collecting intelligence on the Trump Campaign as early as July, 2016. Mueller wasn't appointed to investigate "Russian Meddling" on May 17, 2017. It's undeniable that DoJ and ODNI surveillance and collection efforts resulted in substantial information leaks to the press, 100% of which were damaging to the Trump transition team and fledgling administration. So the clock is really + 17 MONTHS and the compromised Mueller investigative team has had nearly 8 months. The results? Two 1001(g) guilty pleas by Flynn & Papadopolous, and indictments of Manafort and Gates for alleged crimes completely unrelated to the Trump Campaign, the 2016 election or so-called "Russian election meddling".

Now knowing all we know and seeing all we've seen regarding Obama Administration surveillance of Americans in general and politicians in particular, can anyone say with a straight face that IF there were a single shred of evidence that the Trump Campaign, Trump Administration or DJT himself "colluded" with Russia to compromise the 2016 elections, that we wouldn't have already seen it splashed across every liberal media outlet? Seventeen months and all they have are a fired Trump adviser lying to the FBI, a fired Trump campaign staffer lying to the FBI, and two fired Trump campaign staffers indicted for alleged crimes unrelated to Trump or the election.

I'd say it would be EXTREMELY generous to give Mueller until May 17, 2018 to either produce evidence sufficient to indict a USPERS for conspiracy to alter the 2016 election, or publicly announce that there isn't sufficient grounds to continue the investigation. Anything beyond that could only be construed as an attempt by U.S. Government officials to alter the outcome of the 2018 mid-term elections.

The never Trumpers need to put up or shut up, soon.

sundance435

01-11-18, 10:38

Glenn Simpson, founder of Fusion GPS, which commissioned former British spy Christopher Steele to write the dossier, told Senate investigators in August that Steele indicated the FBI “had other intelligence about this matter from an internal Trump campaign source,” according an interview transcript released Tuesday.

According to Simpson, Steele was so concerned by the possibility that a presidential candidate might be “blackmailed” by Russia that he reached out to the FBI of his own accord to share what he knew was “a security issue.”

But according to Simpson, Steele cut off his contact with the bureau after the Times ran a story in the fall alleging that the Trump campaign was not under investigation. The former spy was concerned that “the FBI was being manipulated for political ends by the Trump people and that we didn't really understand what was going on.”

That's all mighty white of spy for another country to be so concerned with our election and federal investigative service. Seriously, I'm not a Trump apologist, but this Steele guy's excuses are as bad as everyone else's.

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-11-18, 11:06

I mean, do you think FBI investigations are done overnight? This just goes back to my original point that if this same thing was happening to President Hillary Clinton in an alternate universe you would not be responding this way. Just more cognitive dissonance.

The major difference is that the Clinton modus operendi is to deny and slow down investigations. You really can’t say that the Trump people have put up the brakes like the Clintons do.

The difference between Trump and Hillary in opposite situations is that the FBI would have cleared HRC by now.

Wars have been won and lost faster than this. The atom bomb developed. All in the background of intel services with electronic capabilities out the whaa-zoo.

skywalkrNCSU

01-11-18, 11:29

The major difference is that the Clinton modus operendi is to deny and slow down investigations. You really can’t say that the Trump people have put up the brakes like the Clintons do.

The difference between Trump and Hillary in opposite situations is that the FBI would have cleared HRC by now.

Wars have been won and lost faster than this. The atom bomb developed. All in the background of intel services with electronic capabilities out the whaa-zoo.

What? Trump fired the guy in charge of the investigation, has discussed firing Mueller, has discussed firing Sessions for recusing himself, told the Republicans they need to take control of the investigation, and has discussed his power to pardon his family members, team, and even himself. He even tried to request back transition emails that Mueller legally obtained (even if Trump said otherwise).

None of that means he is guilty but to say he hasn’t tried to deny or slowdown the investigation is laughable.

Doc Safari

01-11-18, 11:30

To think that NONE of this would have come to light if Hellary had won the election is absolutely frightenting.

We live in the shadow of a secret government--Deep State if you will--and people behind the scenes are so unbelievably corrupt that I don't see this being straightened out without massive and catastrophic personnel purges in government.

I'm thinking the only "quick" solution is to let the government shut down during a budget crisis and keep it shut down until major players simply have to look for employment elsewhere.

But then again, what happens to the rest of the country if this happens?

Sad, but you almost wish the US Marshals could just wholesale start arresting higher-ups in other agencies.

FlyingHunter

01-11-18, 11:37

All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

Benito Mussolini

Averageman

01-11-18, 12:05

This didn't occur in a vacuum, it wasn't planned in a vacuum and it didn't start rolling on its own after Steel began "investigating".
This was likely done with backwards planning, These are the results we want, now how do we get there?
There is simply no possible way this took place without the FBI, DOJ and possibly the AG not colluding with the DNC and their Attorneys coming together.

Perhaps the person they are alluding to who "died" because of this was the low level worker at the DNC who died in a robbery on his way home from a bar?

ScottsBad

01-11-18, 12:06

In the same vein, with the diehard Trump supporters, you can’t cry that this is all just some conspiracy witch hunt when you know damn well if Hillary was elected and the exact same thing came out but against her they would be calling for the gallows rather than saying this is some big conspiracy. People are blinded by politics.

As for this whole investigation, I doubt it will play out like those on the left hope but I think there is at least something there worth looking into. Just let Mueller finish his investigation and see what it turns up. If Trump and team did something illegal I hope it is found just like I would with any politician.

I think its delusional to believe that the corrupt MSM would treat Hillary the same way they have treated Trump. Let's face it, the press has done the Dims and Hillary's bidding. The best thing you can say about the press is that they are in collusion with the Democracks and far left. Now, that's collusion that needs to be investigated, along with Hillary's corrupt pay-to-play antics, corrupt Clinton Foundation, and Clinton Foundation Tax fraud.

That said, I am really disappointed in the FBI. I always assumed they were above political corruption and kept their house in order. I hope the corruption is only at the top, because I'm trying to maintain my respect for the rank-file Agents that keep our Country safe.

Averageman

01-11-18, 12:29

Waco and Ruby Ridge ruined my faith that the Federal LEO's were beyond reproach.
The investigation in to Hillary's email, her server and the email Human was holding at home were a under reported, nonissue for the MSM.
There is no integrity, the relationship between Socialist Progressives, the Deep State, the DNC and the Media is evident everyday.

grnamin

01-11-18, 13:38

The leftists are experts at projection. They accuse the other side of what they (the left, aka commie infiltrators) has been doing all along.

Diamondback

01-11-18, 13:54

The leftists are experts at projection. They accuse the other side of what they (the left, aka commie infiltrators) has been doing all along.

Ever read Hoover's Masters of Deceit? J. Edgar told us EXACTLY what they were gonna do... but back in the Fifties everybody thought he and Tail Gunner Joe were alarmists.

glocktogo

01-11-18, 15:00

What? Trump fired the guy in charge of the investigation, has discussed firing Mueller, has discussed firing Sessions for recusing himself, told the Republicans they need to take control of the investigation, and has discussed his power to pardon his family members, team, and even himself. He even tried to request back transition emails that Mueller legally obtained (even if Trump said otherwise).

None of that means he is guilty but to say he hasn’t tried to deny or slowdown the investigation is laughable.

You bring up an excellent point. Trump has been out, proud and LOUD about everything he's done since he stepped in the ring. If you look at anything he's ever done in business, television or had written in books, it's all out there. He has a long, unbroken history of brash and confrontational openness. If he decides on a course of action and later changes his mind, you don't have to dig to uncover it, he'll be the first to let you know.

But because Hillary lost, we're supposed to suddenly believe that there was some deep conspiracy with his team and Russia to defeat Hillary? And he'd somehow be capable of concealing this conspiracy? Sorry, but those are Deep State and Democrat operative type acts. I view this as a classic case of transference. Everything they're accusing him of, is EXACTLY what they either did, or would've done. We have incontrovertible proof that the Democrat minded operatives of the Obama Administration, spied on Americans in general and opposition political figures in particular. We know they concealed politically damaging information so as to further their chances of continued success. We know they politicized ostensibly "impartial" branches of the U.S. government. We know they conspired with media operatives and outlets to tip the scales in their favor.

But we're supposed to believe them when they point fingers at Trump and scream from the bloody rooftops on a daily basis "TRUMP DID IT!!!".

Yeah... Right... :rolleyes:

skywalkrNCSU

01-11-18, 15:03

You bring up an excellent point. Trump has been out, proud and LOUD about everything he's done since he stepped in the ring. If you look at anything he's ever done in business, television or had written in books, it's all out there. He has a long, unbroken history of brash and confrontational openness. If he decides on a course of action and later changes his mind, you don't have to dig to uncover it, he'll be the first to let you know.

But because Hillary lost, we're supposed to suddenly believe that there was some deep conspiracy with his team and Russia to defeat Hillary? And he'd somehow be capable of concealing this conspiracy? Sorry, but those are Deep State and Democrat operative type acts. I view this as a classic case of transference. Everything they're accusing him of, is EXACTLY what they either did, or would've done. We have incontrovertible proof that the Democrat minded operatives of the Obama Administration, spied on Americans in general and opposition political figures in particular. We know they concealed politically damaging information so as to further their chances of continued success. We know they politicized ostensibly "impartial" branches of the U.S. government. We know they conspired with media operatives and outlets to tip the scales in their favor.

But we're supposed to believe them when they point fingers at Trump and scream from the bloody rooftops on a daily basis "TRUMP DID IT!!!".

Yeah... Right... :rolleyes:

Trump, the guy who refused to release his tax returns like every other presidential candidate, is open with no secrets? Hmmmm

glocktogo

01-11-18, 15:06

Trump, the guy who refused to release his tax returns like every other presidential candidate, is open with no secrets? Hmmmm

Like the rest of the left, you assume that what's in his returns will actually tell you anything about him, when it's actually how you'd weaponize that information against him and his supporters that says more about you. ;)

skywalkrNCSU

01-11-18, 15:13

Like the rest of the left, you assume that what's in his returns will actually tell you anything about him, when it's actually how you'd weaponize that information against him and his supporters that says more about you. ;)

I don’t assume anything about them, I just know he wouldn’t release them but you argue that he is this super open book. Always have an excuse I suppose.

glocktogo

01-11-18, 15:19

I don’t assume anything about them, I just know he wouldn’t release them but you argue that he is this super open book. Always have an excuse I suppose.

If you say so...

Honu

01-11-18, 15:52

the left have no morals at all and could care less about the truth only what the marching orders are and one of them is Trump did something

whats funny is they think Hillary is innocent and wronged :) hahahahahahahaha and that kinda tells you all you need to know

RetroRevolver77

01-11-18, 18:31

Trump, the guy who refused to release his tax returns like every other presidential candidate, is open with no secrets? Hmmmm

Maybe when Obama releases a legitimate birth certificate then I'll worry about when Trump releases his tax returns after the audit.

tb-av

01-11-18, 21:20

None of that means he is guilty but to say he hasn’t tried to deny or slowdown the investigation is laughable.

Exactly... to be continually attacked from within the government that he just won is actually a rational and normal reaction. He may speak in unusual terms and react in unusual ways, but the cruz of the biscuit is that high level Dems were/are out to break him before being elected and even more so after. Not to mention he was not a politician and probably figured they would go home and lick their wounds. so yeah, of course he would would want to fight them, deny them and slow them. That's kinda what he elected to do but no one really knew just how bad things were/are.

boltcatch

01-11-18, 21:46

The level of misbehavior we're looking at among his opponents - much of which is specifically related to willfully destroying some records and obscuring the provenance of others, mind you - is severe enough that nobody seriously cares whether he releases tax returns or not.

Complaining about that at this point removes an individual from consideration as a serious person.

Whiskey_Bravo

01-11-18, 22:59

Diamondback

01-12-18, 02:13

Exactly... to be continually attacked from within the government that he just won is actually a rational and normal reaction. He may speak in unusual terms and react in unusual ways, but the cruz of the biscuit is that high level Dems were/are out to break him before being elected and even more so after. Not to mention he was not a politician and probably figured they would go home and lick their wounds. so yeah, of course he would would want to fight them, deny them and slow them. That's kinda what he elected to do but no one really knew just how bad things were/are.

Let's put it this way... remember how they hounded Nixon into a nervous breakdown? These people have a hard-on for Trump that makes Nixon look like "sloppy wet blowjob with swallow after" by comparison. As for calling Turd Whirled Shitholes what they are... the truth hurts. Like the old saying goes, "when you throw rocks into a pack of dogs, the ones that yelp are the ones you hit."

tb-av

01-12-18, 10:58

I don’t assume anything about them,...

Then why would you be so concerned about Trump breaking with tradition on that front when he has broken with tradition on practically -every- front?

Your opinion is based on an assumption. You have no access to a certain data set yet you expect it will reveal something important.

That is an assumption. To assume and to suppose. Your opinion assumes information exists and supposes that there will be politically oriented information residing in Trumps taxes such that it would justify the actions of the Dem regime.

Which is fine.... you are welcome to your opinion. However my understanding is some of the things that have been done to Trump required --proof--, not assumption, to proceed further. Something about the court orders and such. IOW, the test is... "do you have proof" ... the Dems said "Yes, we have this third party fake document" ... but they left out the word "fake"....

So the Dems were not assuming, they had no idea what they would find. They just knew that if they could keep everyone chasing their tails, then they could win an election. It's like was said above... they were just looking to weaponize anything and everything. Wasn't Hillary one of the first to go down the birth cert. road on Obama? Same thing. Trump and Money had to look like an incredibly easy target.

skywalkrNCSU

01-12-18, 11:41

Then why would you be so concerned about Trump breaking with tradition on that front when he has broken with tradition on practically -every- front?

Your opinion is based on an assumption. You have no access to a certain data set yet you expect it will reveal something important.

That is an assumption. To assume and to suppose. Your opinion assumes information exists and supposes that there will be politically oriented information residing in Trumps taxes such that it would justify the actions of the Dem regime.

Which is fine.... you are welcome to your opinion. However my understanding is some of the things that have been done to Trump required --proof--, not assumption, to proceed further. Something about the court orders and such. IOW, the test is... "do you have proof" ... the Dems said "Yes, we have this third party fake document" ... but they left out the word "fake"....

So the Dems were not assuming, they had no idea what they would find. They just knew that if they could keep everyone chasing their tails, then they could win an election. It's like was said above... they were just looking to weaponize anything and everything. Wasn't Hillary one of the first to go down the birth cert. road on Obama? Same thing. Trump and Money had to look like an incredibly easy target.

Go back and read the conversation. The claim was made that Trump doesn’t have secrets and is so open and honest. My retort was that he wouldn’t even release his tax returns, something that presidental candidates have always done. This was not any comment on what is in his tax returns, it was a comment on how Trump is not some open book as claimed. The goalposts were moved to then discuss if his tax returns were of any interest or not.

RetroRevolver77

01-12-18, 11:46

Go back and read the conversation. The claim was made that Trump doesn’t have secrets and is so open and honest. My retort was that he wouldn’t even release his tax returns, something that presidental candidates have always done. This was not any comment on what is in his tax returns, it was a comment on how Trump is not some open book as claimed. The goalposts were moved to then discuss if his tax returns were of any interest or not.

I think he stated plainly that he'll release them after the audit is through. I was also aware that he made considerable charitable donations. Overall Trump doesn't just seem like a good guy, he truly loves this country unlike the Democrats and RINO's that seem hellbent on destroying it.

skywalkrNCSU

01-12-18, 12:08

I think he stated plainly that he'll release them after the audit is through. I was also aware that he made considerable charitable donations. Overall Trump doesn't just seem like a good guy, he truly loves this country unlike the Democrats and RINO's that seem hellbent on destroying it.

The after the audit was just an excuse because he knew that he would be under the audit for the duration of the election. The IRS even said he could release them while under an audit. Also, in May he stated in an interview with The Economist, “I might release them after I’m out of office.” I’m sure that is bound to happen.

Also, Trump has claimed to have made considerable charitable deductions. Maybe if he released his tax returns we would know, I’m not holding my breath.

Regardless, I don’t care about the tax returns themself. It is an indication, however, that Trump is not some open book as claimed which was my only reason for bringing the tax returns into the conversation.

grnamin

01-12-18, 12:10

Ever read Hoover's Masters of Deceit? J. Edgar told us EXACTLY what they were gonna do... but back in the Fifties everybody thought he and Tail Gunner Joe were alarmists.I haven't read the book. Sounds like a good read, given what's been happening lately.

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

RetroRevolver77

01-12-18, 14:43

The level of corruption with top government officials, DNC, media, along with the FBI- in collusion to fix the general election and now oust the winner is Treason.

A TIMELINE OF TREASON: How the DNC and FBI Leadership Tried to Fix a Presidential Election.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2017/12/a-timeline-of-treason-how-fbi.html?m=1

The DOJ and FBI Worked With Fusion GPS on “Operation Trump”….

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/11/the-doj-and-fbi-worked-with-fusion-gps-on-operation-trump/

7n6

Honu

01-12-18, 15:49

and why have some NEVER released things as simple as a school transcript is the better question

the tax thing they have not always done this
only for the last 40 years or so this has happened and really some were limited with one or a couple years so not a huge thing

the loony left would just attack anything and everything he has given to all the charity and orgs he has given would be attacked and he knows it and so do others

but taxes income etc.. nice to have that privacy and not have people attack other things about you IMHO I would not ever release them with the lunatic left the way they are

tb-av

01-12-18, 19:06

Go back and read the conversation. The claim was made that Trump doesn’t have secrets and is so open and honest.

No, an opinion was stated that Trump is brash, open, etc.. That does not mean he doesn't have secrets and unshared private matters. It simply means that Trump has never really been predisposed to unsavory political behavior. On the other hand though, many of our politicians have been secretive, corrupt, etc.. So the sword they know how to fight with is the one they know will cut them, but that doesn't mean it cuts Trump.

He really has done nothing unusual for a businessman of nature and wealth. When he said one time that someone he was dealing with, perhaps in the Primaries or something, I can't recall. But he said... 'look, I'll be ok, I've dealt with New York real estate tycoons and they are a tough crowd' So now does that mean we should investigate everyone in New York real estate? Obviously Trump will be tied to it.... he said they are tough... you know what that's code for....

Trump most certainly has secrets. That doesn't make him a criminal subject to scrutiny that would probably have broken others by now. It just means he's a normal Billionaire. Most normal Billionaire's are pretty complex people that don't necessarily need the whole world knowing their affairs.

I'll take Trump and no tax returns over Bill and Hillary and their 1040s any day.

Diamondback

01-12-18, 19:15

I haven't read the book. Sounds like a good read, given what's been happening lately.

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

Long out of print--my copy was my grandfather's--but Archive.org has it as a PDF.

As for giving ANY info that can be weaponized against you to Dems or #NeverTrump Kapo Kollaborators, one simple rule:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odMv4zehJ6w

tog

01-13-18, 00:33

I generally never post in politics or religion, but...here goes. When the investigation first started I thought, no problem-it is what it is. Now, after so much time has gone by I to think it's just a witch hunt. With his resources Mueller should have come up with something by now. (IIRC, the Warren Commission finished its investigation and turned in its findings in 10 months time). One other point. The president is being investigated by political enemies who are championed by a complicit media. It amazes me that when he doesn't roll over for them and when he defends himself these same people go ballistic. The man does have a right to fight back.

RetroRevolver77

01-13-18, 12:00

BREAKING: Indictment Handed Out In Russian Bribery Case Involving Uranium One, Hillary Clinton.

"An 11-count indictment was handed out on Friday connected to the alleged Russian bribery scheme involving former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the Obama administration, and Uranium One."

https://www.dailywire.com/news/25828/breaking-indictment-handed-out-russian-bribery-ryan-saavedra#

Seems the wheels are finally turning and the administration is fighting back.

7n6

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-13-18, 14:40

Funny, didn’t see that on CNN. It isn’t nearly as close to HRC as you’d think from the headline, but who knows what will fall out.

tb-av

01-13-18, 20:27

Mark Lambert, who is the co-president of a nuclear materials transportation company, has been charged with “one count of conspiracy to violate the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) and to commit wire fraud, seven counts of violating the FCPA, two counts of wire fraud and one count of international promotion money laundering.”

Yep, that adds up to 11.... still don't see Hillary at the gallows.

RetroRevolver77

01-13-18, 20:39

Yep, that adds up to 11.... still don't see Hillary at the gallows.

Squeeze the little pig till it squeals, get a plea deal for testimony- then move up the ladder.

Problem is, so many at the DOJ and FBI are already compromised so you might be right.

tb-av

01-13-18, 21:21

Yep, that would make little piggy a sacrificial lamb. Same 'ole song and dance. "No plea deal for you!, Next!"

glocktogo

01-17-18, 12:55

Squeeze the little pig till it squeals, get a plea deal for testimony- then move up the ladder.

Problem is, so many at the DOJ and FBI are already compromised so you might be right.

What can DoJ possibly do that would be worse than dying in a "mugging" or "committing suicide" in a park? :(

Diamondback

01-17-18, 12:58

What can DoJ possibly do that would be worse than dying in a "mugging" or "committing suicide" in a park? :(

Hmmm... spend a long time down a deep dark hole as a sexually-deprived, moss-between-the-teeth Bubba lifer's new jailhouse girlfriend?

RetroRevolver77

01-18-18, 13:36

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/954024741077123072

Byron York; "Major development in House Intel Committee *after* vote to release Glenn Simpson transcript. Rep Peter King offered motion to allow all House members to review a brief report summarizing committee investigation into what is called 'FISA abuse.' 1/3"

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/954024854633811973

Byron York; "Motion was approved on party-line vote. Info in report is classified, so report will be available for House members to read in secure room. 2/3"

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/954025070069997573

Byron York; "Report contains answer to question of whether FBI/DOJ used Trump dossier to secure FISA warrant to spy on Americans, plus other issues. Now, whole House can know. Public still in dark. 3/3"

https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/954034019779469313

Sean Davis; "Schiff and the rest of the House Intel Democrats saw the DOJ/FBI/FISA docs on the dossier over a week ago. The lack of any leaks plus their votes today to block release of that info suggest the documents are catastrophically bad for Dems."

Looks like the DNC/DOJ/FBI colluded to create the fake 'Trump Dossier' as the basis to approve an illegal FISA warrant against Trump when he was running for office.

7n6

kenny256

01-18-18, 13:41

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/954024741077123072

Byron York; "Major development in House Intel Committee *after* vote to release Glenn Simpson transcript. Rep Peter King offered motion to allow all House members to review a brief report summarizing committee investigation into what is called 'FISA abuse.' 1/3"

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/954024854633811973

Byron York; "Motion was approved on party-line vote. Info in report is classified, so report will be available for House members to read in secure room. 2/3"

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/954025070069997573

Byron York; "Report contains answer to question of whether FBI/DOJ used Trump dossier to secure FISA warrant to spy on Americans, plus other issues. Now, whole House can know. Public still in dark. 3/3"

Looks like the DNC/DOJ/FBI created the fake 'Trump Dossier' as the basis to approve an illegal FISA warrant against Trump when he was running for office.

7n6So.....if true heads should be rolling.

clean house from top to bottom.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

RetroRevolver77

01-18-18, 13:51

Update my quote I also have an additional tweet from Sean Davis over this matter. The DOJ, FBI and I'd add the IRS- need a full review of all their Obama/Clinton era hirees. Further, the entire DNC needs to be shut down as an active political party for outright corruption. All the people involved in these matters to undermine our election process are traitors to the country.

7n6

skywalkrNCSU

01-18-18, 14:12

Hey 7n6, whatever happened to QAnon and all the Democrat leaders that were going to be arrested at the end of the year?

Coal Dragger

01-18-18, 14:50

They were all saved by black helicopters sent from the UN.

RetroRevolver77

01-18-18, 22:29

Hey 7n6, whatever happened to QAnon and all the Democrat leaders that were going to be arrested at the end of the year?

You'll see once that Memo breaks.

Coal Dragger

01-18-18, 23:10

No, we won’t. Not going to happen.

platoonDaddy

01-19-18, 08:24

I am not holding my breath on the release.

“It's troubling. It's shocking,” North Carolina Rep. Mark Meadows said. “Part of me wishes I didn't read it. I don’t want to believe that those kinds of things are happening in this country that I love so much.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/18/gop-lawmakers-demand-alarming-memo-on-fisa-abuses-be-made-public.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJjm7cy7srg

Doc Safari

01-19-18, 09:05

Whiskey_Bravo

01-19-18, 09:45

So, let's say it's not released. Conservative media (like Sean Hannity's show) have built this scandal into being bigger than Watergate. If it doesn't come out, is there going to be a collective revolt (figuratively speaking) of conservatives demanding answers, or does everyone just shrug their shoulders and say, "There you go."

My question is, if it's as bad as some of these reps are reporting why does it need to be released before investigations and prosecutions can begin?

platoonDaddy

01-19-18, 09:55

My question is, if it's as bad as some of these reps are reporting why does it need to be released before investigations and prosecutions can begin?

AMEN!

skywalkrNCSU

01-19-18, 11:43

You'll see once that Memo breaks.

Why does the memo need to break? I thought they had all the documents ready to start arresting people in December?

Trump can pretty much declassify whatever he wants so why is he waiting?

skywalkrNCSU

01-19-18, 11:44

My question is, if it's as bad as some of these reps are reporting why does it need to be released before investigations and prosecutions can begin?

Because it probably isn’t as bad as they are reporting. That information doesn’t have to go public to start arresting people if they have committed crimes and if it did Trump could just declassify it.

RetroRevolver77

01-19-18, 11:58

Why does the memo need to break? I thought they had all the documents ready to start arresting people in December?

Trump can pretty much declassify whatever he wants so why is he waiting?

Trump can't declassify a document held by the House. He'll likely wait for Ryan to allow it. That will effectively end the Mueller investigation altogether. After that with their hands no longer tied they can pretty much start going after all those involved.

skywalkrNCSU

01-19-18, 12:06

Trump can't declassify a document held by the House.

Got anything to back that up? Pretty sure the president has the power to declassify pretty much anything he wants with an executive order.

RetroRevolver77

01-19-18, 12:22

Got anything to back that up? Pretty sure the president has the power to declassify pretty much anything he wants with an executive order.

The House would fall onto it's own authority outside of the Executive branch. Not ironically they are trying to pass some type of bill strengthening FISA warrants at the same time.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/republicans-release-secret-russia-probe-surveillance-memo-article-1.3765727

platoonDaddy

01-19-18, 14:04

Got anything to back that up? Pretty sure the president has the power to declassify pretty much anything he wants with an executive order.

Rush had a theory today (paraphrasing) that Trump doesn't want to release the memo because it reaches obama and doesn't want a crisis.

Update, cut and pasted from Rush:
tell you what it reveals — and this is a question that they’re all gonna have to deal with — what it reveals, and I’m guessing, it’s an educated guess. What it reveals is the culpability of Barack Obama himself in all of this. What it reveals is the involvement of Barack Obama in all of this. And the question is gonna be, these people are gonna ask themselves, do we want to totally destroy the faith the American people have in our institutions by informing them what happened with Obama’s involvement or people very close to him.

RetroRevolver77

01-19-18, 15:18

Rush had a theory today (paraphrasing) that Trump doesn't want to release the memo because it reaches obama and doesn't want a crisis.

We're facing a Constitutional crisis right now. Considering Obama wasn't even legitimately elected and that the entire system is pre-rigged. Trump has to be very careful in his approach to disable the shadow government. Hillary was supposed to follow Obama, who followed Bush- all as a continuation to move the country further Socialist. This is why they are doing everything in their power to derail the actual surprise legitimate election of Trump. Through Trump's Presidency we might just be able to save the Republic. However the alternative is very dark given the levels of corruption being uncovered. Watch this video, she covers some up to date info, then at 46 minutes goes into e-mails from 2008 prior to the election. It's obvious the entire Obama election was already pre-determined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2726&v=zAiZlX92QfI

Doc Safari

01-19-18, 15:35

If most of the guilty parties turn out to be FBI and intelligence types I foresee a scenario where Seth Rich is going to have lots of company.

We should pray for Ms. Carter's safety.

glocktogo

01-19-18, 15:43

My question is, if it's as bad as some of these reps are reporting why does it need to be released before investigations and prosecutions can begin?

It wouldn't, but if the evidence is that explosive, the public interest should override any concerns on secret squirrel grounds. Regardless of which side of the fence you're on, no one can legitimately deny that we have a VERY opaque federal government. They hide crucial information on a daily basis. They routinely ignore and stall FOIA requests and they simply classify whatever they don't want to be held responsible for:

https://oversight.house.gov/hearing/examining-costs-overclassification-transparency-security/

•The federal government spent more than $100 billion during the last 10 years on security classification activities, and yet, it is estimated 50 to 90 percent of classified material is not properly labeled. •Federal agencies often mark documents classified and withhold information for decades simply because they contain embarrassing material.

So how about we stop dancing on the head of a pin and just admit it. We have a rogue and politically corrupt federal government and they are not accountable to the taxpayers. At all. :(

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-19-18, 17:46

What about the ‘Fienstien Rule’ where you unilaterially release stuff.

Go to jail for releasing information that there is basically an election fixing coup, That makes sense.

glocktogo

01-19-18, 18:54

What about the ‘Fienstien Rule’ where you unilaterially release stuff.

Go to jail for releasing information that there is basically an election fixing coup, That makes sense.

Seems to me it should fall under the NO FEAR Act. Not that that kept any concientious .gov employees who weren't DNC contributors from getting prosecuted and imprisoned under Obama. :rolleyes:

VARIABLE9

01-19-18, 21:32

See HOMELAND Season 1, Episode 2 'Grace'.

That's how you get unarranted (of course 'semi warranted' for the show) FISA warrants.

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-20-18, 21:13

https://nypost.com/2018/01/18/did-putins-pawns-help-assemble-the-trump-smearing-dossier/

Duh. The content of the dossier was specifically tailored to harm Trump with the two main groups with the lightest allegience to him and exploit who is was in general. The piss bed and strippers was to reduce Trump's tepid support among evangelicals and the ties to Russia were make the security focused people not support him. The finanicial stuff was there because with Trump's complex business interests and holding onto his tax returns, the charges could never be called totally false. How do you prove you didn't have shady financial dealings?

The Russians were looking to make a mess of the election on both sides. The dems picked up the narrative and ran with it afterwards....

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-21-18, 00:50

Now it is the Russians through the NRA to Trump.....

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/opinion/nra-russia-investigation-trump.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fopinion-columnists

Right.....

Of course it is a Progressive fantasy that in the words of the article that would implicate the whole GOP party since the NRA supports many of them and if the money came from Russia...

Russian and the NRA.... sure that makes sense.

The Soviet and Russians supporting all kinds of leftists and environmental groups for decades seems to escaped everyones definition of treason.

Diamondback

01-21-18, 01:07

The Soviet and Russians supporting all kinds of leftists and environmental groups for decades seems to escaped everyones definition of treason.

A trick that predates even the Alinsky Rules in the Radical Left Playbook: "Whatever you're planning or doing, make sure you accuse the other guy of it before they can accuse you." This way, no matter how true our accusations they just look like mudslinging and "everybody does it"-ism.

AKDoug

01-21-18, 01:42

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-21-18, 01:52

What cracks me up is that the Dems think the NRA is so powerful. It may have spent $24 million in 2016 lobbying, but it doesn't even scratch the surface of what dozens of companies and organizations spent.

The NRA is the bogeyman to the left. That a Russian-NRA link is the mirror of "Pizza-Gate" level of incredulity is probably lost on the left. The NRAs power isn't in its money, its in its membership.

AKDoug

01-21-18, 02:11

The NRA is the bogeyman to the left. That a Russian-NRA link is the mirror of "Pizza-Gate" level of incredulity is probably lost on the left. The NRAs power isn't in its money, its in its membership.

Yep. While they only boast only 5,000,000 members. Everyone of those members knows 10 non-members that should be.. or at least agrees with the goals of the gun owner.

platoonDaddy

01-21-18, 10:04

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-21-18, 11:20

May you live in exciting times (tomorrow).

People get all hyped up and then....... Nothing seems to ever fill the expectations- and we are off to the next soon-to-break blockbuster.

I'm not saying that there is nothing here, it is just that even if slightly true, the revelations are never quite all they are touted to be. Frankly, from the last admin, the laying to the public about Benghazi was enough- they arms deals and the rest of the HRC stuff ended up falling flat. The IRS stuff was despicable, but because there wasn't a memo from Barry telling people to do it, that fell flat.

I don't know if it is our short-attention spans, over stimulation from movies and TV shows that raise our expectations for the third act reveal that makes us gasp but neatly ties in some character we have already met. The 24-hour news cycle that oddly has to be filled with something while at the same time things jockey for attention. I think it is the 'mic drop', 'watch so-and-so go beast mode', 'The seven times so-and-so destroyed some mental midget' on youtube mentality. Drive-by trolling on Redditt and the Facebook stupidity meme machine. Bite sized Twitter pundits spouting small ideas to short attention span junkies.

It all comes down to the Kardashians. At least she delivered the goods with her calling card video.

skywalkrNCSU

01-21-18, 14:10

Listening to some of the "R's" yesterday and today being interviewed about the memo, I am starting to believe it is a bunch of hot air. They all talk about how everyone needs to see it and then hem & hawing about the release.

One of the typical interviews:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbrzfNo3E08

It won’t get released even though they could make it happen so that the R’s can keep saying how shocking all this was but never have to provide proof. This is just politicking.

RetroRevolver77

01-21-18, 17:15

It won’t get released even though they could make it happen so that the R’s can keep saying how shocking all this was but never have to provide proof. This is just politicking.

I have zero doubt the memo outlines quite a bit about the involvement of the DOJ, FBI, DNC colluding to abuse FISA warrants on private citizens for political purposes.

However, don't let a crisis go to waste- that's what the Democrats taught us.

We President now!

LOL

7n6

Honu

01-21-18, 19:35

well now I am starting to wonder :)

platoonDaddy

01-22-18, 07:34

Senator Johnson letter to FBI Director:

https://www.scribd.com/document/369669775/Senator-Ron-Johnson-Letter-to-FBI-Director-Christopher-Wray

Diamondback

01-22-18, 08:32

In bureaucratese, that Johnson letter reads like a hand grenade down the boxers. Good that people are starting to get PO'ed with Direktorate of Injustice's Deep State antics... if only Jeff Sessions would figure out where he left his testicles.

VARIABLE9

01-22-18, 12:20

Five months of text messages between anti-Trump FBI agents Peter Strzok and Lisa Page have been lost, according to a Friday disclosure from the Justice Department to the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee (HSGAC), as reported by the Associated Press and the Daily Caller.
In a letter from Stephen Boyd, the assistant attorney general for legislative affairs at the Justice Department, to Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson, the chairman of HSGAC, the assistant AG writes that “The Department wants to bring to your attention that the FBI’s technical system for retaining text messages sent and received on FBI mobile devices failed to preserve text messages for Mr. Strzok and Ms. Page.”
The explanation for the gap was “misconfiguration issues related to rollouts, provisioning, and software upgrades that conflicted with the FBI’s collection capabilities.”

Coal Dragger

01-22-18, 12:52

I was at first inclined to believe that this was a bunch of hyped up partisanship, with no “there there”.

However given the FBI’s behavior here using the tried and true Lois Lerner defensive tactic of destroying evidence, I think a purge of the FBI is now in order. In addition I think it’s safe to say that Robert Mueller’s investigation is pretty much tits up at this point.

Must suck to be an honest FBI agent, because now you just get lumped in with all the wantonly corrupt shit heels that head the agency.

glocktogo

01-22-18, 15:15

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-22-18, 18:23

Senator Johnson letter to FBI Director:

https://www.scribd.com/document/369669775/Senator-Ron-Johnson-Letter-to-FBI-Director-Christopher-Wray

It is so interesting to me that the MSM and the dems have to continually rejigger the the Trump-Russia Collusion story to keep it fresh, when you have all of this evidence of what is essentially a coup attempt on our front door.

People often say that if HRC had won, the GOPers would be going nuts if there was the evidence on her that there is about Trump. Imagine if the NYC FBI office with their supposed fealty to Giuliani had covered up for Trump like the FBI did for HRC....

"Now, with the subordinate phantoms, what wonder remained soon waned away; for in a whaler wonders soon wane."

Herman Melville

You took the words out of my mouth...

khc3

01-22-18, 18:35

Whiskey_Bravo

01-23-18, 07:59

https://pjmedia.com/trending/page-strzok-referenced-fbi-secret-society-met-day-election/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/22/gop-lawmakers-fbi-officials-peter-strzok-and-lisa-page-texted-about-secret-society-after-election/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/01/breaking-thousands-new-strzok-page-text-messages-reference-secret-society-within-doj-fbi-working-trump-video/

“We learned today from information that in the immediate aftermath of his election that there may have been a ‘secret society’ of folks within the Department of Justice and the FBI to include Page and Strzok to be working against him.”

So now these two yahoos apparently texted about meeting with a secret group made up of DOJ and FBI that wanted to work to undermine the president? Now maybe we see why the 5 months of messages were somehow not saved but just for these two.

Please tell me there are legal considerations for people that work for the DOJ and FBI for forming a group to actively undermine a sitting president.

Diamondback

01-23-18, 08:09

Please tell me there are legal considerations for people that work for the DOJ and FBI for forming a group to actively undermine a sitting president.
I believe that's called "Sedition."

RetroRevolver77

01-23-18, 08:26

A good overall breakdown about the corruption of some members of the FBI and DOJ to exonerate the former administration of crimes committed while in office but then to turn that focus instead on then candidate Donald Trump to fix a national election. In essence, it was a collaborative effort from several top government officials and their mouthpieces in the MSN to not only hide the crimes of a past administration but to also derail a national election in favor of their chosen candidate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=aa95jLxZfc4

chuckman

01-23-18, 11:43

Even the anti-Trump FBI agent said there is no 'there' there...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/fbis-strzok-allegedly-dismissed-mueller-probe-no-big-there-there.html

grnamin

01-23-18, 12:11

The left grossly underestimated We The People.

Averageman

01-23-18, 12:28

The left grossly underestimated We The People.
A half dozen folks lose their jobs and some go to prison maybe they'll remember next time.

Doc Safari

01-23-18, 15:21

I kind of don't want to chop this up into quotes. It leaves a lump in your throat and you deserve to read the whole article:

http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2018/01/23/gosar-releasethememo-obamas-weaponization-doj-intelligence-services-links-fast-furious-irs-benghazi-scandal/

“If you don’t think the unmasking has something to do with the weaponization of our Department of Justice and our intelligence services, think again,” said Rep. Paul Gosar (R-AZ), suggesting that the Obama administration had weaponized the executive branch in pursuit of partisan political purposes.
Gosar’s remarks came in a SiriusXM Breitbart News Tonight interview with Breitbart News’s Senior Editors-at-Large Rebecca Mansour and Joel Pollak.

Drawing on a classified four-page memo composed by Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA), who chairs the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, for his claims, Gosar described abuse of executive power as a pattern across the Obama administration.

Gosar linked the following Obama-era operations and events as illustrative of a pattern of partisan weaponization of the executive branch: Fast and Furious; the handling of and response to the September 11, 2012, Islamic terrorist attack on the diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya; the IRS’s targeting of dissident charities and non-profits; and the surveillance of persons connected to Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.

Partial transcript below:

MANSOUR: I want to pivot really quickly to this infamous #ReleaseTheMemo hashtag about the memo that the House Intelligence Committee Chairman wrote about, explaining what was going on with the FISA warrants that were issued by the Obama administration. Can you tell us – I know that you’ve read the memo, it hasn’t, obviously, been released to the public – what can you tell us about how this memo came about and what’s in it?

GOSAR: Well, this memo is a summary of emails and traffic that has been picked up by the intelligence and judiciary systems. Some of it is exactly what you may have seen that has been exposed to the sunlight already. Other things may not. But what it basically does is, that, if you don’t think that Fast and Furious, if you don’t think that Benghazi, for the lack of accountability, if you don’t think the IRS, and if you don’t think the unmasking has something to do with the weaponization of our Department of Justice and our intelligence services, think again.

MANSOUR: Wow. Okay. What is the likelihood that this memo with be released by Congressman Nunes?

GOSAR: In our conference, there is a heated debate about when, not if, and we want it out sooner than later. The American people need to see this. There are other things associated with it because this is just the tip of the iceberg. It names names, and those names, they should be owed their day in country, but if it is what’s presented, there are some heads that need to go to jail and not come out for quite some time.

Gosar reiterated his description of the aforementioned pattern of partisan political weaponization of the executive branch when asked about former U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power’s requests for “unmasking” American citizens’ identities captured via FISA surveillance operations, among whom were “Trump associates.”

Partial transcript below:

POLLAK: Let me ask you this: there were some reports over the last year, and we actually were part of reporting this, that there were a number of individuals in the Obama administration who had requested the unmasking of the identities of Americans who were swept up in foreign wiretaps. And Samantha Power, the former ambassador to the United Nations, who doesn’t really have a national security function, had conducted a large number of these unmasking requests. Are we going to learn more about that? Are we going to see into the operation of the outgoing administration and why they did what they did?

GOSAR: Joel, I’m going to be very careful. I’m not an attorney, but if you don’t think that Fast and Furious, if you don’t think that Benghazi, for the lack of accountability, if you don’t think the IRS and the unmasking are tied together with the weaponization of our Department of Justice and political advocates, think again.

POLLAK: Wow. So this could relate back to those controversies, as well?

GOSAR: Here’s the thing. If you look at Fast and Furious, Joel, this was about one of the most precious and most instrumental aspects of individuals to hold a government accountable: having the Second Amendment. If you can take that, if you can lack the accountability that popped up with Benghazi, where you didn’t protect American citizens and those in harm’s way, if you can target your opposition with the IRS and then you can unmask them with anybody and then spread that information – not just unmask them, but spread that information to all other agencies and top brass – now, what you’ve got is the beginnings of a Banana Republic. That means that you have an autocratic demise to the democracy and to the republic and hold your political foes to their detriment.

My take: it is beginning to sound like the Obama administration, and by extension an expected Hillary Clinton presidency, were in the process of ending the United States of America as we know it and were on their way to turning the country into at the very least an Oligarchy. We all suspected such was the case, but to have it all becoming evident is sobering.

grnamin

01-23-18, 15:30

Rep. Nunes ought to develop a bad cold and soon.

Doc, I agree with your assessment and I would add that the particular form of oligarchy would be a plutocracy.

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

Diamondback

01-23-18, 15:39

Rep. Nunes ought to develop a bad cold and soon.

Doc, I agree with your assessment and I would add that the particular form of oligarchy would be a plutocracy.

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

If I were Nunes, Goodlatte or Gowdy, right now I'd be beefing up my security details, hiring food tasters... you know, going the full range of measures to protect yourself when somebody with vast resources and no morals/ethics/etc. has much to gain from something bad happening to you.

grnamin

01-23-18, 15:45

To clarify, the bad cold reference has to do with Feinstein blaming a bad cold for releasing a transcript from Fusion GPS testimony. I pray nothing bad happens to anyone who is on our side.

Diamondback

01-23-18, 15:48

To clarify, the bad cold reference has to do with Feinstein blaming a bad cold for releasing a transcript from Fusion GPS testimony. I pray nothing bad happens to anyone who is on our side.

Gotcha, and amen, brother.

VARIABLE9

01-23-18, 16:33

Here is a leaked FISA Memo, however it is not the one in question. Sorry if you read this post early before I recanted my earlier assertion.

https://www.scribd.com/document/369818480/2016-Cert-FISC-Memo-Opin-Order-Apr-2017

I can not comment on the accuracy of this document. I found the link on Tumblr.

NWPilgrim

01-23-18, 18:28

Diamondback

01-23-18, 18:40

I don't like that approach, but when the other side is doing it and you are not, then you're just being stupid to let opposition partisans stay embedded in your admin.
As I said four hours ago on another site...

I seem to recall a conflict in American history where one side was forced to fight with one hand tied behind their back... it was called Vietnam, and it didn't work out too well for our team.

Averageman

01-23-18, 19:53

Unraveling this mess would be a lot simpler if Republican presidents, like Trump, would do what Democrat president do: wholesale dismissal of all appointees and even groups (travel office anyone) from previous admin and put in place loyalists. I don't like that approach, but when the other side is doing it and you are not, then you're just being stupid to let opposition partisans stay embedded in your admin. Donald, just clean house, don't apologize, and then dig deep and far to root out these traitors to democracy.

They've created a situation that makes dismissing the entire lot of them necessary not partisan.
Honestly if the head of the FBI is able to tell the POTUS "If you require me to fire this subordinate; I will quit." I would hand that SOB a box from the Janitor and tell him to clean out his desk and stand over him as he cleans it out and assist with the escort out the door while I pocketed his badge and cut up his F'ing ID.

glocktogo

01-24-18, 01:13

AKDoug

01-24-18, 01:25

This from Don Young, our Alaskan Congressman..posted on FB..

As Dean of the House, I’ve served in this body for 45 years with 9 different Presidents and after reading the classified memo prepared by the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence – I’m extremely concerned. The findings in this memo are deeply troubling and I’m requesting a vote to release this information to the American public. I believe this information must be made public for the good of the nation. It is imperative that the American people know the truth and the sooner this is released, the better.

RetroRevolver77

01-24-18, 02:14

This from Don Young, our Alaskan Congressman..posted on FB..

We are at a Constitutional crisis. When a party is so corrupt that it's using it's position to not only steal from the taxpayers but also is utilizing our intelligence agencies to rig elections- then the time has come to review this abuse of power and begin prosecuting these individuals under the law.

chuckman

01-24-18, 08:00

Honestly, when haven't we been at a "Constitutional crisis"?

Big A

01-24-18, 09:51

They've created a situation that makes dismissing the entire lot of them necessary not partisan.
Honestly if the head of the FBI is able to tell the POTUS "If you require me to fire this subordinate; I will quit." I would hand that SOB a box from the Janitor and tell him to clean out his desk and stand over him as he cleans it out and assist with the escort out the door while I pocketed his badge and cut up his F'ing ID.

This. So much this.

Agreed. As soon as he finished that sentence I would have fired him.

This from Don Young, our Alaskan Congressman..posted on FB..

From what I understand President Trump can order this memo be declassified. So why not do it? Why not send the Dimocrats off to join the likes of the Whig party?

Honu

01-24-18, 12:29

only reason I can think is they are still gathering other info and/or are saving it as a get out of jail free card of some kind or to try to sink the elections once its closer

like others why does he not just can everyone who was part of the previous and put in his own people is beyond me ?

Todd.K

01-24-18, 12:44

They've created a situation that makes dismissing the entire lot of them necessary not partisan.

No, they created a situation where they can claim "obstruction" if you fire them.

RetroRevolver77

01-24-18, 13:02

From what I understand President Trump can order this memo be declassified. So why not do it?

He can't because the memo is in the House and not part of the Executive branch.

It's basically outside of his jurisdiction.

Doc Safari

01-24-18, 13:06

He can't because the memo is in the House and not part of the Executive branch.

It's basically outside of his jurisdiction.

I thought the POTUS had the authority to declassify ANYTHING. Is that not the case?

RetroRevolver77

01-24-18, 13:15

I thought the POTUS had the authority to declassify ANYTHING. Is that not the case?

From what I understand, due to the separation of power- the House is technically outside of Executive jurisdiction.

skywalkrNCSU

01-24-18, 13:35

He can't because the memo is in the House and not part of the Executive branch.

It's basically outside of his jurisdiction.

This is false

Big A

01-24-18, 13:41

He can't because the memo is in the House and not part of the Executive branch.

It's basically outside of his jurisdiction.

Not according to Glen Greenwald:
https://theintercept.com/2018/01/19/republicans-have-four-easy-ways-to-releasethememo-and-the-evidence-for-it-not-doing-so-will-prove-them-to-be-shameless-frauds/

From the linked oped:

1. Trump can declassify anything he wants.
All classification by the U.S. government has no basis in laws passed by Congress (with one tiny exception that is irrelevant here). Rather, all classification is based on presidential executive orders, which rely on the president’s constitutional role as commander in chief of the armed forces. According to the Supreme Court, the presidential power “to classify and control access to information bearing on national security … flows primarily from the constitutional investment of power in the president.”

That means presidents can also declassify anything they chose to — for any reason or no reason — as they have done in the past. George W. Bush, under pressure in 2004, declassified the section of the 2001 presidential daily brief headlined “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” Barack Obama declassified the Justice Department memos produced during the Bush presidency on the legality of torture.

Thus if the House Intelligence Committee merely releases a version of its memo without the supporting documentation, that won’t be just because they don’t want Americans to see it – it will be because Trump doesn’t want us to see it either. Note that GOP House members are insistent that releasing the memo and the underlying source material would not remotely harm national security:

So what possible justification is there for Trump to continue to conceal this alleged evidence of massive criminality from the American people by hiding it behind “classified” designations? Indeed, it is illegal to abuse classified designations to hide evidence of official criminality: so not only can Trump declassify such evidence, one could argue that he must, or at least should.

Big A

01-24-18, 13:44

This is false

Bingo.

Makes you wonder why the Repubs won't release it and permanently damage or possibly destroy their political adversaries once and for all....

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-24-18, 13:44

This is false

The memo was written by the House, so how does Trump even have access to it? Trump could declassify the intel from the CIA/FBI/NSA has. I guess Trump could have the intel guys who testified say what they told the House. Trump wouldn't have access to the information that the house investigators found on their own.

Otherwise, Trump as nothing to do with a memo written by the House. He doesn't have access to the actual memo. He can ask for it, the House could give it or tell him to pound sand.

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-24-18, 13:46

Bingo.

Makes you wonder why the Repubs won't release it and permanently damage or possibly destroy their political adversaries once and for all....

Because we are stuck in Immigration and shut-down mania, never mind the Superbowl, for till the end of Feb and into March. Release it now and it gets swept under the rug by the MSM.

skywalkrNCSU

01-24-18, 13:51

Bingo.

Makes you wonder why the Repubs won't release it and permanently damage or possibly destroy their political adversaries once and for all....

Because it’s a total farce and doesn’t have the evidence to back it up. Everyone who believes this is legit is being played.

RetroRevolver77

01-24-18, 13:55

The memo was written by the House, so how does Trump even have access to it? Trump could declassify the intel from the CIA/FBI/NSA has. I guess Trump could have the intel guys who testified say what they told the House. Trump wouldn't have access to the information that the house investigators found on their own.

Otherwise, Trump as nothing to do with a memo written by the House. He doesn't have access to the actual memo. He can ask for it, the House could give it or tell him to pound sand.

That's what I was saying, the memo technically is part of the House, it's not an intelligence document that Trump could declassify and for that reason- I'm not sure it's in Trump's jurisdiction to declassify it. However he could ask Ryan to release the document and I honestly don't understand why this hasn't happened yet.

skywalkrNCSU

01-24-18, 13:58

The memo was written by the House, so how does Trump even have access to it? Trump could declassify the intel from the CIA/FBI/NSA has. I guess Trump could have the intel guys who testified say what they told the House. Trump wouldn't have access to the information that the house investigators found on their own.

Otherwise, Trump as nothing to do with a memo written by the House. He doesn't have access to the actual memo. He can ask for it, the House could give it or tell him to pound sand.

The president can declassify anything he wants for the most part, including this memo. The house Intelligence Committee could declassify any material they possess. Any member of congress could read the memo on the floor of the house because they have legal immunity in that aspect.

The fact that they are screaming about how awful this memo is and calling to release it when they are the ones with the power to release it is beyond telling. This is the classic “hold me back bro” and if the contents of the memo were legit and they had the evidence to back it up not only would we have already seen it but it would absolutely be their duty to release it.

glocktogo

01-24-18, 15:52

I think everyone is confusing authorities with protocol. Until someone in the House asks Trump to review the document and declassify it, Trump has little cause to demand an internal House document. He CAN, but it would further damage the already horrible relationship between the executive and legislative branches.

Odds are there is likely no there there, just as there's no there there with Mueller's Russia snipe hunt. If there were in either instance, it would be OSINT already. Everyone in DC is more of an actor in a tragic play than a leader or doer. They all deserve Oscars at this point.

Doc Safari

01-24-18, 15:56

I think Trump may be playing the long game: he's waiting for all the horses to escape before he closes the barn door.

skywalkrNCSU

01-24-18, 16:24

glocktogo

01-24-18, 16:41

The thing is the Republicans are the ones chanting “release the memo” when they have the ability themselves to release it. No one is stopping them except themselves.

So why hasn't a Democrat in the House reviewed it and spilled the beans? If it's such a non-starter, why wouldn't the Dems shut it down immediately, rather than letting the Repubs play it up day after day?

That knife cuts both ways. :)

skywalkrNCSU

01-24-18, 17:02

So why hasn't a Democrat in the House reviewed it and spilled the beans? If it's such a non-starter, why wouldn't the Dems shut it down immediately, rather than letting the Repubs play it up day after day?

That knife cuts both ways. :)

They pretty much came out and said it was a joke. I’m not sure how it cuts both ways when the ones that are in possession of said memo also have the ability to release it yet are the ones yelling that we need to release it. The only people buying into it are the ones who think Trump is out there play 8-D chess.

glocktogo

01-24-18, 17:26

They pretty much came out and said it was a joke. I’m not sure how it cuts both ways when the ones that are in possession of said memo also have the ability to release it yet are the ones yelling that we need to release it. The only people buying into it are the ones who think Trump is out there play 8-D chess.

Saying what they don't like is a joke and actually releasing the specific details of the memo, aren't even in the same solar system. Your Dems aren't exactly playing very well right now either. If the Dems think it's such a joke, they'd release it in a NY second to make the Repubs look bad. They haven't. ;)

skywalkrNCSU

01-24-18, 17:51

Saying what they don't like is a joke and actually releasing the specific details of the memo, aren't even in the same solar system. Your Dems aren't exactly playing very well right now either. If the Dems think it's such a joke, they'd release it in a NY second to make the Repubs look bad. They haven't. ;)

First, I know you are trying to be cute with your little “my dems” comment but let’s keep that bs out so we don’t get another thread closed. Grow up.

Second, some dems got to read it but I’m pretty sure they don’t possess it so how could they release it? They had to go into a secure room to read it. The only thing they could do is discuss specifics on the house floor as they would be protected. Doing that gains them no favor and only serves to legitimize the memo which if it had any real backing would be released yesterday.

The Republicans are the ones who look like a joke here. If you missed it the other times I mentioned it, they are the ones calling for the release of the information that they have possession of and the ability to release. Do you not see how dumb that is?

glocktogo

01-24-18, 18:57

First, I know you are trying to be cute with your little “my dems” comment but let’s keep that bs out so we don’t get another thread closed. Grow up.

Second, some dems got to read it but I’m pretty sure they don’t possess it so how could they release it? They had to go into a secure room to read it. The only thing they could do is discuss specifics on the house floor as they would be protected. Doing that gains them no favor and only serves to legitimize the memo which if it had any real backing would be released yesterday.

The Republicans are the ones who look like a joke here. If you missed it the other times I mentioned it, they are the ones calling for the release of the information that they have possession of and the ability to release. Do you not see how dumb that is?

I'm not the one always defending Dem positions and attacking GOP positions, but fair enough, I'll play.

I realize that the brain trust that is Nancy Pelosi couldn't remember what she saw in the last hallway she walked down much less a SCIF, but are you saying all Dems are that forgetful? If the memo is such a joke, then why would discussing specifics on the floor of Congress legitimize it? Wouldn't that in fact DE-legitimize it and force the GOP to release it and be embarrassed?

Your opinion of the memo is just one side of the coin. Whether the memo is more or less baseless than the Steele Dossier is subject to review and examination. I have no idea who wrote the memo and from what source material it was derived. But we KNOW FISA warrants were obtained and subsequently used to spy on the Trump campaign. Adm. Rogers admitted as much to the FISC and risked getting fired by Clapper & Carter. Fortunately Obama wasn't stupid enough to do that. There's a reason Adm. Rogers still has a job in the executive branch while Clapper & Carter don't. If you want to see a REAL career professional, here he is:

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.LZNCtdl32VGtsX4nG0wrrAHaJQ&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

So don't be so quick to dismiss that memo as a "joke". The Repubs are playing this for all it's worth and the longer they stretch it towards the mid-term election, the smarter the play might be. If some Dem in Congress with a pretty good memory isn't memorizing that memo in the SCIF and repeating it on the floor of Congress, there may just be a reason for that.

skywalkrNCSU

01-24-18, 19:25

I'm not the one always defending Dem positions and attacking GOP positions, but fair enough, I'll play.

I realize that the brain trust that is Nancy Pelosi couldn't remember what she saw in the last hallway she walked down much less a SCIF, but are you saying all Dems are that forgetful? If the memo is such a joke, then why would discussing specifics on the floor of Congress legitimize it? Wouldn't that in fact DE-legitimize it and force the GOP to release it and be embarrassed?

Your opinion of the memo is just one side of the coin. Whether the memo is more or less baseless than the Steele Dossier is subject to review and examination. I have no idea who wrote the memo and from what source material it was derived. But we KNOW FISA warrants were obtained and subsequently used to spy on the Trump campaign. Adm. Rogers admitted as much to the FISC and risked getting fired by Clapper & Carter. Fortunately Obama wasn't stupid enough to do that. There's a reason Adm. Rogers still has a job in the executive branch while Clapper & Carter don't. If you want to see a REAL career professional, here he is:

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.LZNCtdl32VGtsX4nG0wrrAHaJQ&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

So don't be so quick to dismiss that memo as a "joke". The Repubs are playing this for all it's worth and the longer they stretch it towards the mid-term election, the smarter the play might be. If some Dem in Congress with a pretty good memory isn't memorizing that memo in the SCIF and repeating it on the floor of Congress, there may just be a reason for that.

I know nuance might be difficult for you to understand but attacking moronic members of the GOP does not equal defending dem positions. For the most part, the only liberal positions I can get behind are social in nature because I don’t believe the government should legislate morality like the evangelical right seems to think but that is due to my libertarian leanings as I have never voted for a democrat in my life. I feel like I should make this my signature since you and a couple other members can’t seem to get past this point but if you can find posts of mine supporting democrats or democrat positions please let me know. I try to remain consistent in my beliefs regardless of the letter beside the name of the politician rather than just slurping down whatever bs the Republicans want to feed me. Remember how they were going to pass pro 2A legislation? How’s that working out?

Back to the memo, can you really not see how bad it would look if the dems leaked contents of the memo? The Republicans would have a field day with that. They have nothing to gain because anyone without a maga hat on thinks Nunes is a joke for this little stunt as is and supposedly the only way to verify anything the memo claims is to release more sensitive information from other more classified documents.

If the memos claims are even close to true then the members of Congress with this knowledge should be screaming it at the rooftops because it would be the biggest scandal and would sink the Democrats chances of having any relevancy. They should be screaming it at the rooftops for the sake of this country. The fact that instead they are just saying, oh boy I sure wish we could release this information, when they absolutely can release it say everything I and anyone else with common sense needs to know.

glocktogo

01-24-18, 19:53

I know nuance might be difficult for you to understand but attacking moronic members of the GOP does not equal defending dem positions. For the most part, the only liberal positions I can get behind are social in nature because I don’t believe the government should legislate morality like the evangelical right seems to think but that is due to my libertarian leanings as I have never voted for a democrat in my life. I feel like I should make this my signature since you and a couple other members can’t seem to get past this point but if you can find posts of mine supporting democrats or democrat positions please let me know. I try to remain consistent in my beliefs regardless of the letter beside the name of the politician rather than just slurping down whatever bs the Republicans want to feed me. Remember how they were going to pass pro 2A legislation? How’s that working out?

Back to the memo, can you really not see how bad it would look if the dems leaked contents of the memo? The Republicans would have a field day with that. They have nothing to gain because anyone without a maga hat on thinks Nunes is a joke for this little stunt as is and supposedly the only way to verify anything the memo claims is to release more sensitive information from other more classified documents.

If the memos claims are even close to true then the members of Congress with this knowledge should be screaming it at the rooftops because it would be the biggest scandal and would sink the Democrats chances of having any relevancy. They should be screaming it at the rooftops for the sake of this country. The fact that instead they are just saying, oh boy I sure wish we could release this information, when they absolutely can release it say everything I and anyone else with common sense needs to know.

Well that didn't last long! LOL

So you hate Republicans more than you love Democrats, fine. It doesn't change your patterns of attack and defend. It just doesn't. I'm a libertarian too, but apparently we focus on different areas. My biggest beef is with something you and the media and Dems are ALL guilty of, incessant and unrelenting attacks on the right. You can deny it all you want, but I'm not alone in seeing it. I'm just more willing to call you on it than most.

As for the second part, if the memo is indeed a joke, then the Republicans can't have a field day with it once it's out in the open. The media would never allow it. They'd crucify the Repubs for ever mentioning it in the first place. So your theory doesn't hold any water, but it does accomplish attacking them yet again.

As for the classified documents underpinning the entire sordid mess, it should ALL be published. There's not a single thing it could reveal that's more critical than the overwhelmingly compelling interest to the public at large. If the Russians have done so much damage to our democratic elections and Trump is involved, then it's a critical national security issue to restore the credibility of our election process. Declassify every bit of it and release it to the world. But that means they have to release every bit of it, including what Hillary, Comey, Lynch, Rhoades, and every other Obama official saw and did. No favsies should be spared. None of them are too big to fail, including Saint Obama himself.

If you're really a libertarian, how could you disagree with that? :confused:

glocktogo

01-24-18, 20:29

Update: Nunes himself drafted the memo as I now understand.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senate-intelligence-panel-denied-access-to-nunes-memo/ar-AAv7XPx?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

Soon the debate over the memo is likely to be fought in the open, as Nunes and the committee's Republicans are preparing to use an obscure committee rule to vote to release it, as well as potentially some of the supporting documents. The committee's vote to allow its release would kick the decision to the President, who is inclined to let it be released, according to a source familiar with the matter.

Trump, an official said, has been briefed by aides on the Nunes memo and the process that it would have to go through in order to be released. If the House Intelligence Committee votes to release the document, Trump has five days to object, according to White House principal deputy press secretary Raj Shah. During that period, the White House will run a full interagency and national security review and the President will be advised before making a decision, according to Shah.

If the President doesn't object, the document will be released. But if he does, the full House would then be able to vote for its release.

So it appears I was correct, the dustup over releasing it is more about protocol than authority. The reason Dems want to have their own memo created and released, is to blunt the impact of the GOP memo. Regardless, I agree 100% with Sen. Grassley that the underlying documents are what need to be released, but they ALL need to be released, not just a select few. Failing to release all of them could bias the outcome.

skywalkrNCSU

01-24-18, 20:35

Well that didn't last long! LOL

When you continually make things personal I am going to explain my rationale for the one millionth time on here but it continues to fall of deaf ears

So you hate Republicans more than you love Democrats, fine. It doesn't change your patterns of attack and defend. It just doesn't. I'm a libertarian too, but apparently we focus on different areas. My biggest beef is with something you and the media and Dems are ALL guilty of, incessant and unrelenting attacks on the right. You can deny it all you want, but I'm not alone in seeing it. I'm just more willing to call you on it than most.

Bro, this place is a Republican circle jerk. When someone makes a post defending Obama's foreign policy let me know, I'd be glad to talk about what a failure that was. If someone makes a post about how great Hillary was please let me know so I can let known my opinion about how she was one of, if not the, scummiest politicians this country has seen. If someone makes a post about how we should raise taxes on the wealthy, corporations, and increase the minimum wage please let me know so I can attack those asinine thoughts as well.

I could go on but I think you get the point. No one here makes pro Democrat posts so it's kind of hard to go on the attack there and joining in on a circle jerk never quite appealed to me. Republicans on the other hand, I do have a problem with because they say they support things that I believe in like smaller government, less taxes, less spending, less unnecessary military intervention, expanded gun rights, more personal freedoms, etc but they don't actually put it to practice. Instead of other people getting mad at the extreme hypocritical nature of our politicians the response is always, "well it's better than the democrats." Sorry but I don't think that's a good way to go about life. I know the dems want to screw me so that's a non-starter, the Republicans on the other hand, while some are excellent and have my support, will often sell out to stay in office and I just don't support that anymore.

As for the second part, if the memo is indeed a joke, then the Republicans can't have a field day with it once it's out in the open. The media would never allow it. They'd crucify the Repubs for ever mentioning it in the first place. So your theory doesn't hold any water, but it does accomplish attacking them yet again.

Which is why they aren't rushing to release it like they could, that's my whole point.

As for the classified documents underpinning the entire sordid mess, it should ALL be published. There's not a single thing it could reveal that's more critical than the overwhelmingly compelling interest to the public at large. If the Russians have done so much damage to our democratic elections and Trump is involved, then it's a critical national security issue to restore the credibility of our election process. Declassify every bit of it and release it to the world. But that means they have to release every bit of it, including what Hillary, Comey, Lynch, Rhoades, and every other Obama official saw and did. No favsies should be spared. None of them are too big to fail, including Saint Obama himself.

If you're really a libertarian, how could you disagree with that? :confused:

I agree with that completely and it's why I am not getting all pissy about Mueller investigating the issue. If he finds hard evidence of people in the Trump camp doing illegal things then it should come to light, let it all come out but you have to have an investigation first.

This whole notion of the FBI being on the fix for getting Hillary elected is absurd. I understand why people are upset at Comey for not going harder against Hillary and that is likely due to the fact that the Lynch was a slimeball and would not have done anything and prevented any charges. That said, if he really was pulling for Hillary he would not have come out with a statement that essentially came down to, "Hillary Clinton was extremely careless with classified information and if my hands weren't tied by Lynch I would do more than tell the public everything she did wrong." He would not have then reopened the investigation with the whole Huma's laptop deal closer to the actual election. Those actions hurt Hillary immensely and helped Trump. If he was cheering for Clinton he wouldn't have made any statements at all. The FBI does not typically comment on investigations, they didn't have to say a thing but they did and each time it absolutely benefited Trump.

Also, it was released after the election that prior to the election Obama had received information that the Russians were trying to meddle in our election. He stated that he did not want to come out with that information right before the election because it would look extremely biased and so he went to McConnell to try to release the information in a bipartisan way which McConnell shut down and nothing was said before the election. If this was some grand conspiracy to elect Hillary and send our country on some path to communism then why wouldn't Obama say something that would sway things in the left's favor? Personally, I think he still hates Hillary and that's why he held onto it but it just goes to show that there is more logical evidence that says this grand conspiracy cooked up by some on the right is just that. I am not saying you are perpetuating this belief, this portion was more directed at the subject of the thread in general.

tb-av

01-24-18, 21:09

This whole notion of the FBI being on the fix for getting Hillary elected is absurd.

So if you read this....
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455696/hillary-clinton-barack-obama-emails-key-decision-not-indict-hillary

You see nothing suspicious with the FBI... or some members of the FBI? Omissions of facts that would have altered investigations. You just chalk that up to, "we don't hand out info." I mean, except the info they want to hand out.

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-24-18, 21:11

It's not out because the timing isn't right. My guess is that after the immigration, the next shut down and Trump being interviewed by Mueller, they'll release it. Late Feb.

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-24-18, 21:15

It's not out because the timing isn't right. My guess is that after the immigration, the next shut down and Trump being interviewed by Mueller, they'll release it. Late Feb.

Where is all the intel on Trump's misbehavior from our 'allies' and even others? We didn't need the FBI to wiretap Trump. The Brits and Germans did it for 'us'. You know damn well they have HRCs stuff.

Would it be more palatable if I said Israel probably has them?

skywalkrNCSU

01-24-18, 21:33

So if you read this....
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455696/hillary-clinton-barack-obama-emails-key-decision-not-indict-hillary

You see nothing suspicious with the FBI... or some members of the FBI? Omissions of facts that would have altered investigations. You just chalk that up to, "we don't hand out info." I mean, except the info they want to hand out.

I never said everyone in the FBI is infallible, what I said was there wasn’t some huge conspiracy orchestrated by the FBI and DOJ to rig the election as the conspiracy theorists among us believe. The fact remains that the statements the FBI did release during the election did not paint Hillary in a favorable light by any stretch of the imagination and they didn’t have to release any of that. They could have kept quiet and certainly would have if their goal was to get her elected.

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-24-18, 22:11

RetroRevolver77

01-25-18, 00:41

glocktogo

01-25-18, 02:51

They wouldn't charge her and if they came up with absolutely nothing, that would have been good grist for the Trump mill. By giving her a slap on the wrist, they knew the MSM would turn that into a nothing-burger. It doesn't have to be a huge conspiracy. It looks like it takes really only one person to put the kibosh on the HRC investigation and the start a coup against Trump.

The other thing is, 50k txts????? Maybe their defense is that they were too busy to get their coup on.

I believe the FBI's "we accidentally lost 50K texts" about as much as I believed Koskinen couldn't comply with subpoenas and Hillary couldn't produce all her emails. In what other universe could you line up as many convenient "coincidences" and still expect to be believed?

OK fine. You lost them. You're still held to the standard of the world's preeminent law enforcement agency. I'll expect your resignation on my desk by COB today. Fair enough?

Big A

01-25-18, 07:28

I know nuance might be difficult for you to understand but attacking moronic members of the GOP does not equal defending dem positions. For the most part, the only liberal positions I can get behind are social in nature because I don’t believe the government should legislate morality like the evangelical right seems to think but that is due to my libertarian leanings as I have never voted for a democrat in my life. I feel like I should make this my signature since you and a couple other members can’t seem to get past this point but if you can find posts of mine supporting democrats or democrat positions please let me know. I try to remain consistent in my beliefs regardless of the letter beside the name of the politician rather than just slurping down whatever bs the Republicans want to feed me. Remember how they were going to pass pro 2A legislation? How’s that working out?

Back to the memo, can you really not see how bad it would look if the dems leaked contents of the memo? The Republicans would have a field day with that. They have nothing to gain because anyone without a maga hat on thinks Nunes is a joke for this little stunt as is and supposedly the only way to verify anything the memo claims is to release more sensitive information from other more classified documents.

If the memos claims are even close to true then the members of Congress with this knowledge should be screaming it at the rooftops because it would be the biggest scandal and would sink the Democrats chances of having any relevancy. They should be screaming it at the rooftops for the sake of this country. The fact that instead they are just saying, oh boy I sure wish we could release this information, when they absolutely can release it say everything I and anyone else with common sense needs to know.

Bingo! If they truly wanted it out there, if it was truly disturbing as they claim, it would be out there. Leak it to Fox News. I don't know which I look forward too more, Obama Admin officials being given orange jumpsuits and matching stainless steel braclets, or Sean Hanitty having a stroke on air when this stuff results in none of that.

Well that didn't last long! LOL

So you hate Republicans more than you love Democrats, fine. It doesn't change your patterns of attack and defend. It just doesn't. I'm a libertarian too, but apparently we focus on different areas. My biggest beef is with something you and the media and Dems are ALL guilty of, incessant and unrelenting attacks on the right. You can deny it all you want, but I'm not alone in seeing it. I'm just more willing to call you on it than most.

As for the second part, if the memo is indeed a joke, then the Republicans can't have a field day with it once it's out in the open. The media would never allow it. They'd crucify the Repubs for ever mentioning it in the first place. So your theory doesn't hold any water, but it does accomplish attacking them yet again.

As for the classified documents underpinning the entire sordid mess, it should ALL be published. There's not a single thing it could reveal that's more critical than the overwhelmingly compelling interest to the public at large. If the Russians have done so much damage to our democratic elections and Trump is involved, then it's a critical national security issue to restore the credibility of our election process. Declassify every bit of it and release it to the world. But that means they have to release every bit of it, including what Hillary, Comey, Lynch, Rhoades, and every other Obama official saw and did. No favsies should be spared. None of them are too big to fail, including Saint Obama himself.

If you're really a libertarian, how could you disagree with that? :confused:

So if you vote Republican you can't criticize them? Even when they're absolute shit at cutthroat politics?

Diamondback

01-25-18, 09:21

Libertarians have no muscle (lack of numbers), Republicans are split between no balls (some) and actively colluding with the Dems (the Ivy League Establishment). Either way, if you're in one of the two starboard quadrants of the Political Compass you're screwed... and the Powers That Be don't have the courtesy to even use some farking lube.

glocktogo

01-25-18, 12:06

Bingo! If they truly wanted it out there, if it was truly disturbing as they claim, it would be out there. Leak it to Fox News. I don't know which I look forward too more, Obama Admin officials being given orange jumpsuits and matching stainless steel braclets, or Sean Hanitty having a stroke on air when this stuff results in none of that.

So if you vote Republican you can't criticize them? Even when they're absolute shit at cutthroat politics?

You obviously aren't familiar with my posts on the topic, because I criticize Republicans all the time. I have first hand experience, having been a precinct chairman and state delegate for the GOP. They're all FOS. The difference is I don't bash them for no reason and I don't bash them just because I have a hardon for them. They get some things right and they screw some things up. Compared to the Dems and the Obama administration officials in this matter, they're relatively on point. Except Sessions. Screw that guy. :mad:

RetroRevolver77

01-25-18, 12:12

Looks like they recovered the texts between those FBI agents.

Scott Thuman, BREAKING: Dept of justice tells me it has recovered texts from FBI agents that had been missing, regarding the Russia investigation. The system did not archive them—however, the old cell phones have been located and contents are now being reviewed. #fbi #doj #RussiaInvestigation

https://twitter.com/ScottThuman/status/956584868443508743

Todd.K

01-25-18, 13:02

The fact remains that the statements the FBI did release during the election did not paint Hillary in a favorable light by any stretch of the imagination and they didn’t have to release any of that. They could have kept quiet and certainly would have if their goal was to get her elected.
The evidence of her crimes was public knowledge. I think they did the least they thought they could get away with.

Comey should have resigned if he was under pressure from Lynch. (or Trump) That is the beginning and end of any possibility he acted properly or honorably in my opinion. He was playing for power, not justice.

skywalkrNCSU

01-25-18, 13:45

The evidence of her crimes was public knowledge. I think they did the least they thought they could get away with

This is completely false. In the July statement Comey could have simply come out and said that they would not recommend charges be filed and left it at that. They could have absolutely gotten away with that. What would have happened if that’s all they did? Nothing. There would have been some Fox News segments about how Hillary got away with it but nothing would have happened to the agents on the case. Instead Comey publicly listed how careless Clinton was and that absolutely had a negative impact for the Clinton camp and it was overwhelming obvious in the polls.

Comey also had absolutely no need to send the letter to Congress at the end of October that they were investigating additional emails. He could have completely sat on that and remained silent or waited until after the election if he wanted. If he wanted to get Hillary elected there is absolutely no reason why he would write that letter so close to the election and there is no way you can say that didn’t help Trump.

You have to be willfully ignorant to ignore how the actions of Comey did more to help Trump get elected than not. The FBI had no legal obligation to comment on the investigation and it is extremely rare that they do and yet in this case the two main comments only strengthened Trumps position when the alternative of staying silent would have benefited Hillary.

RetroRevolver77

01-25-18, 14:09

This is completely false. In the July statement Comey could have simply come out and said that they would not recommend charges be filed and left it at that. They could have absolutely gotten away with that. What would have happened if that’s all they did? Nothing. There would have been some Fox News segments about how Hillary got away with it but nothing would have happened to the agents on the case. Instead Comey publicly listed how careless Clinton was and that absolutely had a negative impact for the Clinton camp and it was overwhelming obvious in the polls.

Comey also had absolutely no need to send the letter to Congress at the end of October that they were investigating additional emails. He could have completely sat on that and remained silent or waited until after the election if he wanted. If he wanted to get Hillary elected there is absolutely no reason why he would write that letter so close to the election and there is no way you can say that didn’t help Trump.

You have to be willfully ignorant to ignore how the actions of Comey did more to help Trump get elected than not. The FBI had no legal obligation to comment on the investigation and it is extremely rare that they do and yet in this case the two main comments only strengthened Trumps position when the alternative of staying silent would have benefited Hillary.

He wasn't impartial, he did say that she was "extremely careless" instead of "negligent" so as not to trip any actual offenses. Now his statements right before the election showed he was definitely having a personal conflict over the matter. If he remained silent then it wouldn't have hurt her during the election but at the same time the evidence was mounting that there was wrong doing. Something had to be stated. However he had already prepared his statements exonerating her a full two months before she was even to be interviewed by the FBI probe. Which means, he was already being pressured to vindicate her.

"GOP senators: Comey drafted statement clearing Clinton before her interview.

Former FBI Director James Comey began drafting a statement rejecting the idea of criminal charges against Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton over her private email account about two months or more before Clinton was interviewed in the FBI probe, according to partial transcripts of interviews released Thursday by two Republican senators. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/31/fbi-comey-clinton-email-242213

Todd.K

01-25-18, 16:12

You have to be willfully ignorant to ignore how the actions of Comey did more to help Trump get elected than not. The FBI had no legal obligation to comment on the investigation and it is extremely rare...

No. You have to be willfully ignorant to ignore what a real investigation would have done. Comey didn't run a real investigation. I doubt he wanted Congress looking too close at his fake investigation.

So he did the least he thought he could get away with. MMQing how much that helped Trump now doesn't change how few gave him any chance.

skywalkrNCSU

01-25-18, 16:25

No. You have to be willfully ignorant to ignore what a real investigation would have done. Comey didn't run a real investigation. I doubt he wanted Congress looking too close at his fake investigation.

So he did the least he thought he could get away with. MMQing how much that helped Trump now doesn't change how few gave him any chance.

It’s like you purposefully ignored everything I said and the clear evidence because it goes against the narrative you made up. Comey didn’t have to release anything he did. Period. End of story. The FBI typically does not discuss investigations they are part of and his July statement was absolutely out of the ordinary and the only possible outcome from that or his October statement was that Trump would benefit and Hillary would be hurt by it. Anyone could see that at the time of the release and Comey certainly knew it.

This is beyond obvious, especially with the October statement when, if he had to release a statement (he didn’t), he could have EASILY have waited until after the election.

But yeah, I’m sure there was a huge deep state conspiracy in the FBI to get Hillary Clinton elected and their strategy was to make her look bad days before the election.

skywalkrNCSU

01-25-18, 16:27

Now that the texts have been recovered Ron Johnston is backing off his secret society claim saying it was a likely joke. So what’s next in the conspiracy circles? Are the recovered text messages fake? Is Ron part of the deep state?

RetroRevolver77

01-25-18, 16:38

It’s like you purposefully ignored everything I said and the clear evidence because it goes against the narrative you made up. Comey didn’t have to release anything he did. Period. End of story. The FBI typically does not discuss investigations they are part of and his July statement was absolutely out of the ordinary and the only possible outcome from that or his October statement was that Trump would benefit and Hillary would be hurt by it. Anyone could see that at the time of the release and Comey certainly knew it.

This is beyond obvious, especially with the October statement when, if he had to release a statement (he didn’t), he could have EASILY have waited until after the election.

But yeah, I’m sure there was a huge deep state conspiracy in the FBI to get Hillary Clinton elected and their strategy was to make her look bad days before the election.

Comey knew how crooked she was and decided at the very last moment to say at least a little something just before the election- but that's as far he would take it. If he was honestly investigating her, as he should have been doing- she would be facing a litany of charges. He went easy on her for political reasons.

tb-av

01-25-18, 17:27

I never said everyone in the FBI is infallible, what I said was there wasn’t some huge conspiracy orchestrated by the FBI and DOJ to rig the election as the conspiracy theorists among us believe. The fact remains that the statements the FBI did release during the election did not paint Hillary in a favorable light by any stretch of the imagination and they didn’t have to release any of that. They could have kept quiet and certainly would have if their goal was to get her elected.

Understood.... however..... re:BOLD ... at the same time it cleared her. Basically the pitch goes like this... 'yeah Hillary is not so good at covering her tracks, yeah she cheats, BUT... we are fighting Republicans... and we want a smarmy bitch in our corner even if we don't say so in public ( in front of media ).

As you say you would have to be blind to not recognize that trait in a Liberal. Now if you are honest you would also realize that Hillary's health was also becoming a concern so there was a natural cooling off of her stock. She wasn't Bitcoin before Christmas... she was Bitcoin after Christmas... Comey or not.

You absolutely have to acknowledge the mindset of Liberals that look to SNL, Bill Maher, Ellen. As the election was closing in tapes were being played of Hillary not being so friendly to gays. Her helth was a shambles, remember the "eye popping" video from her own show where she looked like a 2yo seeing balloons falling from the ceiling.

You wish to say Comey was a soloist in the performance when in reality he was simply another rhythm instrument in the mix. He really didn't change the overall feel.... BUT... none the less.. he felt compelled to 'get involved' where as you say, the FBI rarely treads.. Certainly you must admit that has a tenor of guilt associated with it.

Your points are...
The FBI is not infallible
The FBI hurt Hillary

My points.
Hillary was in damage control mode or one could actually say, out of control damage. Jimmy Fallon had to have her back on Late Night(highest rated night show at time) after they dragged her in that rolling hospital she rode around in. Which is another point you overlook. You look at Comey hurting her... but no mention of Late Night TV propping her up... especially NBC.. .the most widely viewed "NEWS" in the USA. I may be wrong here, but I think she got some good time on TODAY show as well... and SNL... so she was getting basically 24 hour props from the impartial "news".

Seeing that FBI is fallible in your words... Comey was exhibiting behavior that suggests Toto is about to pull the curtain and reveal the Great OZ. Think about it... toss a brick(Comey) into a tornado(Hillary)... it's not going change matters much.... EXCEPT... no one will ever know where that brick came from. Which might be just what the FBI needed.

Remember you said the FBI is fallible, not me. So consider all those facts and they gravity each may hold. When I do that, I see some puzzle pieces missing. The picture just doesn't look right. Too many money and political people pulling in sort of the same direction and even after the election they are afraid to stop pulling in the name of Truth yet they keep loosing all the important data.

Todd.K

01-25-18, 17:49

tb-av

01-25-18, 17:59

I don't know if he was more pro H, never Trump, or did it for his own power, BUT HE DID ALL THOSE THINGS.

I believe what he did at the last minute was to cover his ass.

It sure looked and sounded that way to me. It's one thing to make an unprecedented move... but to follow it up later as though he was the MC at a high school talent show?? That has guilt written all over it.

skywalkrNCSU

01-25-18, 18:52

I'm going to say this one more time. The fake investigation helped H more than the letter hurt her.

You ignore the fact Comey ran a fake investigation FROM THE START. Comey followed the narrative of "matter". Comey wrote the get out of jail free speech. Comey said she wouldn't be charged rather than send it to the DOJ. I don't know if he was more pro H, never Trump, or did it for his own power, BUT HE DID ALL THOSE THINGS.

I believe what he did at the last minute was to cover his ass.

This is an incredibly naive point of view and completely misses how people actually thought of Hillary being investigated by the FBI and having all the evidence presented. If none of that happens she gets elected and polling data illustrates that overwhelmingly

Averageman

01-25-18, 19:22

Comey panicked, it's that F'ing simple.
Hillary's health and her investigation compromised her, but Hillary didn't panick, those around her, primarily her staff did.
The only one who didn't blink was Trump.

FromMyColdDeadHand

01-25-18, 20:08

Comey had to come out about the emails in HRCs girlfriends computer. NY FBI office still has some Gulliani leftovers and they would have spilled the beans. Then you really have Comey covering up and that would have been worse.

But that isn’t even the issue with the found emails on Huma’s computer. She had an immunity deal based on turning everything over. If Flynn or Manafort did that, their immunity deals would be pulled and they’d be charged with making false statements and witholding evidence.

The Huma immunity part is what people over look. That they were given immunity in the first place and how they were questioned has already been shown to be outside the normal too. Nothing on the HRC email scandal is kosher, since it is only because of the House investigation that we know about any of it.

Plus, HRC thinking that C meant is was time to take her vitamins and forgetting how to order pizza, let alone handle secure comms is another black eye.

Todd.K

01-25-18, 20:24

This is an incredibly naive point of view and completely misses how people actually thought of Hillary being investigated by the FBI and having all the evidence presented. If none of that happens she gets elected and polling data illustrates that overwhelmingly

What happens to your polling data if she gets charged? Because if Comey wanted to damage her he had enough evidence to just recommend charges.

You also have to ignore the totality to come to your conclusion. The number of well planned irregular things during the investigation that helped her, vs one hasty thing at the end.

skywalkrNCSU

01-25-18, 20:45

What happens to your polling data if she gets charged? Because if Comey wanted to damage her he had enough evidence to just recommend charges.

You also have to ignore the totality to come to your conclusion. The number of well planned irregular things during the investigation that helped her, vs one hasty thing at the end.

You are completely missing the point. The argument from the conspiracy theorists is that Comey and the FBI were in on a fix for Hillary which is easily debunked by what actually happened.

Beyond that is a totally different thing and Comey’s hands were likely tied by Lynch. I have no problem with anyone making the claim that she was doing what she could for Hillary and the Bill meeting on the tarmac was just more evidence of corruption there. I think Comey did as much damage as he thought he could do without throwing everything into a giant spiral.

tb-av

01-25-18, 20:49

...polling data illustrates that overwhelmingly

polling data?..... after throwing down the conspiracy card? Come on.....

Tell us what the Tarot cards said.

tb-av

01-25-18, 20:59

Beyond that is a totally different thing and Comey’s hands were likely tied by Lynch. I have no problem with anyone making the claim that she was doing what she could for Hillary and the Bill meeting on the tarmac was just more evidence of corruption there. I think Comey did as much damage as he thought he could do without throwing everything into a giant spiral.

I really can't see Comey as the hero you are attempting to paint him to be. IF... he were the type person you claim him to be then he had two choices.

1. Spill ALL the beans.
2. STFU and rock on living in regret if Hillary won. Resignation on Wed. after winner announced.

Anything else undermines his position of power and is highly unethical and self serving.

glocktogo

01-25-18, 21:00

To anyone defending Comey's investigation, please name one other FBI investigation where the exoneration letter was written before they ever interviewed the subject of the investigation?

skywalkrNCSU

01-25-18, 22:00

polling data?..... after throwing down the conspiracy card? Come on.....

Tell us what the Tarot cards said.

Have you ever studied statistics? I have beyond the undergraduate level, I’m not speaking from a place of ignorance here. Trumps victory was well within the margin of error for the models that had any validity to them in the first place. The trends pre and post Comey statements are GLARINGLY obvious and you would have to be a complete moron who can’t understand basic data analysis to see otherwise. It’s like you guys forgot what actually happened.

skywalkrNCSU

01-25-18, 22:04

I really can't see Comey as the hero you are attempting to paint him to be. IF... he were the type person you claim him to be then he had two choices.

1. Spill ALL the beans.
2. STFU and rock on living in regret if Hillary won. Resignation on Wed. after winner announced.

Anything else undermines his position of power and is highly unethical and self serving.

Again, read what I actually write, I never claim Comey is a hero, I claim that he was not part of some conspiracy to get Hillary elected. If he was he would not have acted directly against those interests. This is logic 101.

I’m not making any judgment on if he handled the investigation well, we are all missing far too much information to be able to speak from a well informed position on the intricacies of that.

tb-av

01-25-18, 22:16

Again, read what I actually write, I never claim Comey is a hero, I claim that he was not part of some conspiracy to get Hillary elected. .

Here is what you actually wrote....

I think Comey did as much damage as he thought he could do without throwing everything into a giant spiral.

Ok, so you believe Comey is planning in his mind. People think with their minds. You said "he thought".

You said the FBI is not infallible. He is but one aspect of the FBI.

So... this "spiral".... what is this spiral he thought of? What others you believe may be fallible might be part of this FBI spiral that you speak of?

I don't want to suppose I understand your words. Describe this "spiral". You think you know what Comey was thinking. Describe this "spiral" he was so concerned with.

skywalkrNCSU

01-25-18, 22:30

Here is what you actually wrote....

Ok, so you believe Comey is planning in his mind. People think with their minds. You said "he thought".

You said the FBI is not infallible. He is but one aspect of the FBI.

So... this "spiral".... what is this spiral he thought of? What others you believe may be fallible might be part of this FBI spiral that you speak of?

I don't want to suppose I understand your words. Describe this "spiral". You think you know what Comey was thinking. Describe this "spiral" he was so concerned with.

Are you being purposefully obtuse? Let’s go back to the beginning. Claim is made that the FBI was in on a fix to get Hillary elected. Comey’s actions go directly against this. End of story.

Now if you want to get into what I think Comey was thinking in his actions we can but it’s all conjecture and my opinion on it is as good as anyone else’s because we don’t have definitive evidence either way.

We do have evidence of what Comey did and said in the public arena and the impact from his actions. This evidence is completely contradictory of the claim that the FBI and Comey wanted to get Hillary elected. There was no conspiracy and if there was it was the poorest executed conspiracy I could imagine.

I don’t know how to spell it out any clearer after essentially repeating the same thing post after post but the goalposts continually get moved.