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My suppressed SBR is no longer reliable.
SilencerCo Saker 556
13.7" Noveske barrel, mid length gas system
Noveske gas block pinned (non adjustable)
UCWRG BCG
BCM extractor upgrade (just installed, unfired)
H2 buffer
SpringCo Blue spring
Using strictly Federal XM193 55gr 5.56
The gun runs flawlessly without the suppressor. With the suppressor i was getting failures to extract (reasoning for the BCM extractor upgrade), the rifle also would double feed forming the 2nd round it picked up into a taco by bending the case to the point it was unusable (this most likely was the extractor failing to do its job, and the carrier trying to feed a new round into the failure that had previously happened) this happens 2-3 times per magazine.
1-2 times in the last 400rnds fired while suppressed i have blown primers out of the case, the result was a locked up trigger, and a locked up bcg.
Id rather not change more than one thing at a time. My first change is the BCM extractor upgrade kit.
What else should i pickup before next weekend when i head out into the desert to spend some time getting this rifle to run reliably suppressed? I have read that the BCM A5 buffer system may be worth acquiring. I have also looked into the SLR .750 adjustable gas blocks, but i would prefer to keep my gas block pinned if possible.
I have started researching adjustable bolt carriers, but i am undecided on taking that path.
I have an H buffer, and a standard BCM mil-spec buffer/recoil spring so far to take out with me next time.
Thank you for any help or input.
It the gun was reliable previously, then determining what has changed would be the priority.
Adding the suppressor is what changed.
gunnerblue
01-14-18, 18:07
Then there’s your culprit. Take your H buffer and turn your H2 into a H3 and see how the gun performs. Often, a heavier buffer is all that’s needed to run reliably with a can.
Also, the A5 system is a worthwhile consideration, IMHO
BufordTJustice
01-14-18, 18:16
Adding the suppressor is what changed.
Keep the sprinco blue. Either step up to a PWS H3 buffer as a stop gap measure, or transition to the A5 system with at LEAST an A5H3 buffer and sprinco green spring. You can still step up to an A5H4 from there.
Lastly, avoid adjustable carriers and consider grabbing an LMT enhanced carrier.
Easy first step is the PWS steel body H3.
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My suppressed SBR is no longer reliable.
SilencerCo Saker 556
13.7" Noveske barrel, mid length gas system
Noveske gas block pinned (non adjustable)
UCWRG BCG
BCM extractor upgrade (just installed, unfired)
H2 buffer
SpringCo Blue spring
Using strictly XM193 55gr
The gun runs flawlessly without the suppressor. With the suppressor i was getting failures to extract (reasoning for the BCM extractor upgrade), the rifle also would double feed forming the 2nd round it picked up into a taco by bending the case to the point it was unusable (this may have also been the extractor failing to do its job, and the carrier trying to feed a new round into the failure that had previously happened) this happens 2-3 times per magazine.
1-2 times in the last 400rnds fired while suppressed i have blown primers out of the case, the result was a locked up trigger, and a locked up bcg.
Id rather not change more than one thing at a time. My first change is the BCM extractor upgrade kit.
What else should i pickup before next weekend when i head out into the desert to spend some time getting this rifle to run reliably suppressed? I have read that the BCM A5 buffer system may be worth acquiring. I have also looked into the SLR .750 adjustable gas blocks, but i would prefer to keep my gas block pinned if possible.
I have started researching adjustable bolt carriers, but i am undecided on taking that path.
I have an H buffer, and a standard BCM mil-spec buffer/recoil spring so far to take out with me next time.
Thank you for any help or input.
You'll need to shoot the rifle to verify the extractor spring upgrade kit fixed your problem.
However, if you want to look ahead, you could remove the gas block and check gas port diameter. A barrel that has the right diameter for unsuppressed use is usually over-gassed for use with a suppressor. A good way to fix that problem using your existing gas block is to get the BRT Micro Port kit. Popped primers are sometimes a sign of early extraction caused by over-gassing combined with a weak extractor.
First thing is first. You aren't experiencing a "double feed". You had a failure to extract which led to a failure to feed. The blown primers should be a cause for concern. You either have some bad ammo, or a potential chamber issue. A tight or out of spec chamber can lead to chamber pressure problems which accounts for the primers and the failure to extract.
First thing I would do is get some non crappy Federal XM193 ammo and see if you get the same results. If you do, then I would start looking at a potential chamber issue.
I wouldn't be surprised if that Noveske has a massive blowhole and I would be curious to know what it is. I would probably go ahead and get an H3 buffer as well.
First thing is first. You aren't experiencing a "double feed". You had a failure to extract which led to a failure to feed. The blown primers should be a cause for concern. You either have some bad ammo, or a potential chamber issue. A tight or out of spec chamber can lead to chamber pressure problems which accounts for the primers and the failure to extract.
First thing I would do is get some non crappy Federal XM193 ammo and see if you get the same results. If you do, then I would start looking at a potential chamber issue.
I wouldn't be surprised if that Noveske has a massive blowhole and I would be curious to know what it is. I would probably go ahead and get an H3 buffer as well.
I thought I explained my double feed theory well, it wasn't really a double feed I just didn't know what else to call it. I will see if the BCM extractor upgrade fixes the extraction issue.
Are you saying to get something else besides Federal xm193? or specifically shoot Federal xm193? I only have/shoot Federal XM193 55gr ammo.
I will bring an H3 buffer with me and see how that goes this weekend.
I am saying I don't trust Federal XM193 and I would get 3-4 boxes of some other quality 5.56 and see what happens. The prices and availability right now of ammo is mind blowing. I would think you should be able to find something locally for a reasonable price to conduct a test.
I thought I explained my double feed theory well, it wasn't really a double feed I just didn't know what else to call it. I will see if the BCM extractor upgrade fixes the extraction issue.
Are you saying to get something else besides Federal xm193? or specifically shoot Federal xm193? I only have/shoot Federal XM193 55gr ammo.
I will bring an H3 buffer with me and see how that goes this weekend.
I thought I explained my double feed theory well, it wasn't really a double feed I just didn't know what else to call it. I will see if the BCM extractor upgrade fixes the extraction issue.
Are you saying to get something else besides Federal xm193? or specifically shoot Federal xm193? I only have/shoot Federal XM193 55gr ammo.
I will bring an H3 buffer with me and see how that goes this weekend.
I read the explanation of the double-feed more along the lines of a bolt-over-base malf.
Like this:
http://i.imgur.com/MCgCyX6.jpg
I only say this because this was happening to me on my rifles when I introduced a suppressor. Mostly one 16" mid-length gun I have.
I'd shoot kittenfart PMC .223 bronze most of the time and didn't notice a problem. Then I started buying and shooting a lot more mk262 clone, specifically from CBC and IMI, and it runs pretty hot by comparison. I started experiencing BoB malfs and thought that somehow I was short stroking. This went against everything I understood about suppressors and gas operated guns.
I was speaking to Marvin Pitts on the phone and he explained that absolutely I'm overgassed when suppressed, but I'm actually so overgassed the BCG is bouncing off the back of the buffer tub and outrunning the magazine spring, leading to the BoB. He suggested stiffer springs and/or increasing buffer weights. Actually he suggested an adjustable gasblock but that wasn't an option.
Got a Sprinco Red and a collection of buffers. Finally got it to function with the Red and an H2 on everything from PMC bronze to Mk262. Then I got an Gemtech suppressed BCG, a geissele super braided 42 buffer spring and I'm golden.
My SBR however was a little different. While I never got the BoB malfs I was seeing before recoil was noticeably stiffer suppressed and brass was practically dribbling out of the gun telling me my BCG speed was too high. Switched to the geissele super braided 42, and turned their provided H buffer in to an H2 buffer. Then added my LMT enhanced carrier to it. Much more manageable now.
An LMT-E carrier is on my list, as well as the BCM A5 kit +extra A5 buffers.
polydeuces
01-15-18, 17:25
Lastly, avoid adjustable carriers
Why this?
Fwiw, recently got a gemtech adj carrier, runs as adverised, 13.5 Centurion barrel suppressed.
Thx.
BufordTJustice
01-15-18, 17:46
Why this?
Fwiw, recently got a gemtech adj carrier, runs as adverised, 13.5 Centurion barrel suppressed.
Thx.
I've seen several fail. As in 4. Personally. And the only one that hasn't has literally never been toggled from the suppressed setting in a lightly used gun with an Omega 30 (a low backpressure can).
I'm a fan of gemtech, but I prefer to regulate high pressure gas at the gas block instead of stopping up an inherently poorly-sealed gas system. The gas tube to carrier key interface forms a really leaky manifold. Perfectly acceptable as the design compensates for this in terms of gas volume. But emplacing a significant downstream restriction like an orifice inside the key/carrier causes LOTS of leaking around the gas tube/carrier key interface. And I'm not really confident that it's a good thing for the gas tube in the long run.
I can give more info via PM. Not here to trash anybody.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://i.imgur.com/MCgCyX6.jpg
...when I introduced a suppressor...I started experiencing BoB malfs...
Your extractor spring is weak. Replace it with with either a Colt or Sprinco M4 extractor spring. Don't use an O ring.
polydeuces
01-15-18, 21:07
K- thanks.
Your extractor spring is weak. Replace it with with either a Colt or Sprinco M4 extractor spring. Don't use an O ring.
Why? It appears to me in that photo that the fired round has been extracted and ejected.. but I may not be seeing the end of the empty brass in the chamber??
Because if the AR was short stroking, the bolt would not push the round up out of the mag.
In addition, the bolt has ridden up over the base. This is caused by something blocking the fresh round from feeding into the chamber. The only object that could have blocked feeding is the empty case. The only way the empty could block feeding is if the extractor lost control of it.
Sometimes, when the extractor loses control of the case, it blocks feeding but gets knocked out of the action, giving the appearance of having been ejected.
Two things will keep an empty from being ejected. One, is the extractor losing control. Two, weak ejection. In this case, it could be the ejector, but a bad ejector usually results in a stovepipe. Added to that is the fact that AR extractors usually go tango uniform before ejectors do.
Because if the AR was short stroking, the bolt would not push the round up out of the mag.
In addition, the bolt has ridden up over the base. This is caused by something blocking the fresh round from feeding into the chamber. The only object that could have blocked feeding is the empty case. The only way the empty could block feeding is if the extractor lost control of it.
Sometimes, when the extractor loses control of the case, it blocks feeding but gets knocked out of the action, giving the appearance of having been ejected.
Two things will keep an empty from being ejected. One, is the extractor losing control. Two, weak ejection. In this case, it could be the ejector, but a bad ejector usually results in a stovepipe. Added to that is the fact that AR extractor usually go tango uniform before ejectors do.
What about a weak mag spring, not getting the new round up soon enough for the bolt to catch it?
What about a weak mag spring, not getting the new round up soon enough for the bolt to catch it?
I'm uncertain because I haven't run into that problem with an AR yet.
But to speculate-
- If the cartridge does not rise up soon enough, the bolt will not catch the rim. If the bolt does not catch the rim of the cartridge, it won't push it up and out of the magazine.
- On the other hand, a weak spring can let a cartridge fall out of position. The cartridge can go nose up or nose down. If the cartridge goes nose up, feeding would be blocked and result in a bolt over. I suppose the same could happen if the cartridge goes nose down and bounces up again from the violence of the carrier smacking it around.
In speculation, I can see your point about a weak magazine spring.
The carrier can also catch the rim, if the bolt misses it. This leads to something like the picture
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Update: 1/28/18
Took the rifle out today.
Un-suppressed shooting Federal XM193, and Hornady Black 5.56 62gr ammo: H2 buffer, BCM extractor upgrade, gun functions perfectly, bolt locks back after every round, ejection kicks brass out at 3 o' clock. With the H3 buffer all of the above is still true, but ejection is slightly weaker, but still lands at about 3 o' clock.
Suppressed: H3 buffer/BCM extractor. Got excited that the issues may be resolved and i grabbed the wrong magazine loaded w/Federal XM193 55gr, first round fired and ejected fine. Second round blew a primer, and the extractor ripped the rim off the case which is now stuck in the chamber. DAMNIT!
Ordered an LMT-E full auto carrier, now to go get some rods and try to pound the stuck case out of the chamber from the muzzle side.
Getting to the point that im not sure a suppressor is worth taking out of the safe anymore.
Dude, you need an adjustable gas block. It really is the "easy button" solution to your issue.
Once again, I will reiterate. I believe your issue is the ammo. Get a 5.56 ruptured case extractor and try that first. https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/stuck-case-removers/broken-shell-extractor-prod23311.aspx
Update: 1/28/18
Took the rifle out today.
Un-suppressed shooting Federal XM193, and Hornady Black 5.56 62gr ammo: H2 buffer, BCM extractor upgrade, gun functions perfectly, bolt locks back after every round, ejection kicks brass out at 3 o' clock. With the H3 buffer all of the above is still true, but ejection is slightly weaker, but still lands at about 3 o' clock.
Suppressed: H3 buffer/BCM extractor. Got excited that the issues may be resolved and i grabbed the wrong magazine loaded w/Federal XM193 55gr, first round fired and ejected fine. Second round blew a primer, and the extractor ripped the rim off the case which is now stuck in the chamber. DAMNIT!
Ordered an LMT-E full auto carrier, now to go get some rods and try to pound the stuck case out of the chamber from the muzzle side.
Getting to the point that im not sure a suppressor is worth taking out of the safe anymore.
An LMT-E carrier is on my list, as well as the BCM A5 kit +extra A5 buffers.
Try the A5 system, that may be your silver bullet. I run both A5 and LMT E in all my guns, but its pricy. Like Guns said, you may have some super hot ammo with a tight chamber.
PB
Once again, I will reiterate. I believe your issue is the ammo. Get a 5.56 ruptured case extractor and try that first. https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/handgun-tools/stuck-case-removers/broken-shell-extractor-prod23311.aspx
I know, i picked up quality ammo to test with, but i became excited and made a mistake at the wrong time.
BufordTJustice
01-28-18, 19:37
Try the A5 system, that may be your silver bullet. I run both A5 and LMT E in all my guns, but its pricy. Like Guns said, you may have some super hot ammo with a tight chamber.
PB
Though hot ammo is likely the issue, I think PB has the point.
Both the A5 system with the LMT e-carrier, and the tight chamber.
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However, if you want to look ahead, you could remove the gas block and check gas port diameter. A barrel that has the right diameter for unsuppressed use is usually over-gassed for use with a suppressor.
A good way to fix that problem using your existing gas block is to get the BRT Micro Port kit.
Popped primers are sometimes a sign of early extraction caused by over-gassing combined with a weak extractor.
^^ This seems the most likely root cause and solution, while any overly hot ammo will exacerbate the problem.
-story time-
A long time ago, in a workshop not so far away, we worked on a severely overgassed 16" middy with a .223 Wylde chamber.
It was 50% overgassed with a .093" port.
Yes, the maker put a rifle port in a middy barrel, even though everybody knows middys should have a .076" port. ;-)
Interestingly, suppressors can also add up to 50% extra gas drive, depending on a bunch of things.
Anyhow, it would only run with mild 223 ppu ammo.
It happened to have an upgraded extractor spring from the get go.
It would rip the soft rims off wolf steel case, leaving a suck case with a missing chunck of rim.
It would mangle the brass rim and blow every other primer out of federal XM193, which would of course work their way down into the FCG and lock up the whole works.
No amount of heavy buffers or springs could tame it.
But a prototype gas port insert worked and allowed it to run any ammo without worry.
That barrel still runs nicely today ( although it wears an intermediate gas system now ).
Just asking, I'm here to learn
If excessive gas is the root cause why wouldn't a adjustable gas block be the solution?
Boba Fett v2
01-31-18, 00:11
My suppressed SBR is no longer reliable.
SilencerCo Saker 556
13.7" Noveske barrel, mid length gas system
Noveske gas block pinned (non adjustable)
UCWRG BCG
BCM extractor upgrade (just installed, unfired)
H2 buffer
SpringCo Blue spring
Using strictly Federal XM193 55gr 5.56
The gun runs flawlessly without the suppressor. With the suppressor i was getting failures to extract (reasoning for the BCM extractor upgrade), the rifle also would double feed forming the 2nd round it picked up into a taco by bending the case to the point it was unusable (this most likely was the extractor failing to do its job, and the carrier trying to feed a new round into the failure that had previously happened) this happens 2-3 times per magazine.
1-2 times in the last 400rnds fired while suppressed i have blown primers out of the case, the result was a locked up trigger, and a locked up bcg.
Id rather not change more than one thing at a time. My first change is the BCM extractor upgrade kit.
What else should i pickup before next weekend when i head out into the desert to spend some time getting this rifle to run reliably suppressed? I have read that the BCM A5 buffer system may be worth acquiring. I have also looked into the SLR .750 adjustable gas blocks, but i would prefer to keep my gas block pinned if possible.
I have started researching adjustable bolt carriers, but i am undecided on taking that path.
I have an H buffer, and a standard BCM mil-spec buffer/recoil spring so far to take out with me next time.
Thank you for any help or input.
I posted my shooting results in the other 13.7 middy thread, but not sure if you saw it. I failed to mention that I'm also running an LMT Enhance carrier and bolt, and the Sprinco Green and A5H2 buffer are housed in an LMT rifle length tube. There are no adjustable gas regulation systems in the carbine.
My suppressed SBR is no longer reliable.
SilencerCo Saker 556
13.7" Noveske barrel, mid length gas system
Noveske gas block pinned (non adjustable)
UCWRG BCG
BCM extractor upgrade (just installed, unfired)
H2 buffer
SpringCo Blue spring
Using strictly Federal XM193 55gr 5.56
The gun runs flawlessly without the suppressor. With the suppressor i was getting failures to extract (reasoning for the BCM extractor upgrade), the rifle also would double feed forming the 2nd round it picked up into a taco by bending the case to the point it was unusable (this most likely was the extractor failing to do its job, and the carrier trying to feed a new round into the failure that had previously happened) this happens 2-3 times per magazine.
1-2 times in the last 400rnds fired while suppressed i have blown primers out of the case, the result was a locked up trigger, and a locked up bcg.
Id rather not change more than one thing at a time. My first change is the BCM extractor upgrade kit.
What else should i pickup before next weekend when i head out into the desert to spend some time getting this rifle to run reliably suppressed? I have read that the BCM A5 buffer system may be worth acquiring. I have also looked into the SLR .750 adjustable gas blocks, but i would prefer to keep my gas block pinned if possible.
I have started researching adjustable bolt carriers, but i am undecided on taking that path.
I have an H buffer, and a standard BCM mil-spec buffer/recoil spring so far to take out with me next time.
Thank you for any help or input.
High back pressure can coupled with a very overgassed barrel. The shoulder of the port has worn radiused and gas flow increased. I gave up on making a noveske run suppressed. Were i to try, id go with an A5, sprinco green, heaviest buffer they make, and a phosphate milspec bcg to create more drag vs more polished and slick finishes. Or just dump it and get a properly gassed barrel. An example, my 14.5" middy has a 0.0735" port. Runs like a beast, can or not, and very clean.
Just asking, I'm here to learn
If excessive gas is the root cause why wouldn't a adjustable gas block be the solution?
Yes, it could be a the solution.
Correcting the gas drive makes a world of difference.
Not everyone wants to ditch a pinned FSB for a click adjustable gas block.
High back pressure can coupled with a very overgassed barrel. The shoulder of the port has worn radiused and gas flow increased. I gave up on making a noveske run suppressed. Were i to try, id go with an A5, sprinco green, heaviest buffer they make, and a phosphate milspec bcg to create more drag vs more polished and slick finishes.
Or just dump it and get a properly gassed barrel. An example, my 14.5" middy has a 0.0735" port. Runs like a beast, can or not, and very clean.
No need to add mass and friction when you can cut the gas instead.
The Noveske barrel can be fixed by installing a CustomTUNE gas port in the FSB.
Yes, it could be a the solution.
Correcting the gas drive makes a world of difference.
The Noveske barrel can be fixed by installing a CustomTUNE gas port in the FSB.
How much of a PITA ($$) is that to have done or do? Would a new barrel be comparable, or not at all?
How much of a PITA ($$) is that to have done or do? Would a new barrel be comparable, or not at all?
Installing a Custom Tune gas port is easy. Remove gas block. Tap the gas block gas hole. Install Custom Tune gas port. Reinstall gas block.
Cost for the kit is very reasonable.
Installing a Custom Tune gas port is easy. Remove gas block. Tap the gas block gas hole. Install Custom Tune gas port. Reinstall gas block.
Cost for the kit is very reasonable.
Sounds like a winner!
BufordTJustice
01-31-18, 07:57
Installing a Custom Tune gas port is easy. Remove gas block. Tap the gas block gas hole. Install Custom Tune gas port. Reinstall gas block.
Cost for the kit is very reasonable.
It might actually be even easier than your easy-as-pie description makes it sound. The CustomTune kit comes with a small thread tap included, right?
Boba Fett v2
01-31-18, 08:23
High back pressure can coupled with a very overgassed barrel. The shoulder of the port has worn radiused and gas flow increased. I gave up on making a noveske run suppressed. Were i to try, id go with an A5, sprinco green, heaviest buffer they make, and a phosphate milspec bcg to create more drag vs more polished and slick finishes. Or just dump it and get a properly gassed barrel. An example, my 14.5" middy has a 0.0735" port. Runs like a beast, can or not, and very clean.
Which Noveske barrels have you tried? I previously had a Noveske 11.5 stainless steel barrel which I ran with an A5H2 + Green spring combo and that thing ran like a sewing machine, and no issues at all suppressed. Interesting to hear what other's experiences have been, but it's likely I never ran into any problems because I started out with an A5 from the jump.
I originally wanted to keep a pinned gas block and try to tune the rest of the system as best I could.
I ordered an LMT-E carrier the other day. This morning I caved and ordered an SLR adjustable gas block and barrel dimpling fixture from them as well.
The A5 system seems like a good system, but I don't think it would solve anything for me.
now my rifle will be setup as follows:
13.7" Noveske barrel mid gas
SLR adjustable GB
LMT-E bolt carrier
H3 car buffer
Springco Blue spring
Silencerco Saker 556
The above setup should be good. I will tune it with 62gr 5.56 ammo. The only thing I am not super happy about is the set screws holding the gas block on, but apparently a ton of people have used set screw gas blocks for thousands of rounds without issue.
Boba Fett v2
01-31-18, 10:54
I originally wanted to keep a pinned gas block and try to tune the rest of the system as best I could.
I ordered an LMT-E carrier the other day. This morning I caved and ordered an SLR adjustable gas block and barrel dimpling fixture from them as well.
The A5 system seems like a good system, but I don't think it would solve anything for me.
now my rifle will be setup as follows:
13.7" Noveske barrel mid gas
SLR adjustable GB
LMT-E bolt carrier
H3 car buffer
Springco Blue spring
Silencerco Saker 556
The above setup should be good. I will tune it with 62gr 5.56 ammo. The only thing I am not super happy about is the set screws holding the gas block on, but apparently a ton of people have used set screw gas blocks for thousands of rounds without issue.
Another alternative you might consider is installing an ADIGS (if you decide to not dick around with replacing the GB). Any reason for forgoing the Custom Tune gas port as previously recommended?
Another alternative you might consider is installing an ADIGS (if you decide to not dick around with replacing the GB). Any reason for forgoing the Custom Tune gas port as previously recommended?
I looked around on the website, tried to research that setup online with almost no results. I understand the concept, and may install a custom tune gas port in my noveske gas block in the future.
I know SLR is good, and im a sucker for well machined parts.
BufordTJustice
01-31-18, 14:12
I looked around on the website, tried to research that setup online with almost no results. I understand the concept, and may install a custom tune gas port in my noveske gas block in the future.
I know SLR is good, and im a sucker for well machined parts.
Have you checked headspace with a set of gauges? After buffer mass, extractor spring, and action spring are addressed, all we are left with is chamber dimensions and gas port size in terms of troubleshooting items.
I'm not trying to disparage Noveske (RIP, John) at all. But once we eliminate what is impossible, we are left with what is possible.
Have you checked headspace with a set of gauges? After buffer mass, extractor spring, and action spring are addressed, all we are left with is chamber dimensions and gas port size in terms of troubleshooting items.
I'm not trying to disparage Noveske (RIP, John) at all. But once we eliminate what is impossible, we are left with what is possible.
I used a 5.56 Min/Max set of gauges when the rifle was built years ago. It is only recently having issues due to the suppressor (not really recently, more like within the last year of shooting it suppressed.) I gave up on suppressors for a while and left it in the safe when I would go out shooting. Now I am determined to get the gun to run reliably suppressed or not.
BufordTJustice
01-31-18, 15:14
I used a 5.56 Min/Max set of gauges when the rifle was built years ago. It is only recently having issues due to the suppressor (not really recently, more like within the last year of shooting it suppressed.) I gave up on suppressors for a while and left it in the safe when I would go out shooting. Now I am determined to get the gun to run reliably suppressed or not.
Good on your for inspecting up front. We'll rule the chamber dimensions out, then.
Well, I use a SpecWar 556 with great success. I get virtually zero port noise and my brass is virtually indistinguishable from unsuppressed brass unless you inspected them side by side. I've repeatedly been accused of shooting 300 supers by people who have suppressed 300 BO systems.
But, to accomplish what you want, you're going to need to heavily regulate the gas and invest in the LMT e-carrier (which I think you did, right?). No way around it.
But if I can has ZERO gas to face, nearly clean brass, and vanishingly low recoil using my can, you can too. :)
yeah, I have an lmt-e carrier, and a adjustable gas block on the way. gun already has an H3 buffer and a springco blue in it.
Ill adjust it according to info I have found on here.
Well, apparently LMT-E carriers are made of unobtanium.
The place i ordered from notified me saying they have to special order it from LMT and have no idea how long it will take to get.
LMT seems to have removed them from their website, and every other place that carries them online is out of stock.
Looks like ill leave the special order open and hope i eventually get it?
Well, apparently LMT-E carriers are made of unobtanium.
The place i ordered from notified me saying they have to special order it from LMT and have no idea how long it will take to get.
LMT seems to have removed them from their website, and every other place that carries them online is out of stock.
Looks like ill leave the special order open and hope i eventually get it?
I got mine directly from LMT. Give them a call.
Before you went on the Unobtanium shopping spree, did you try some different ammo?
Well, apparently LMT-E carriers are made of unobtanium.
The place i ordered from notified me saying they have to special order it from LMT and have no idea how long it will take to get.
LMT seems to have removed them from their website, and every other place that carries them online is out of stock.
Looks like ill leave the special order open and hope i eventually get it?
Not yet, I shoot on weekends, and work on weekdays...plus I don't pay a range to shoot, so I need to venture out into the desert. I will this weekend.
Need it for this rifle or not, does not mean I cannot collect an enhanced carrier.
It might actually be even easier than your easy-as-pie description makes it sound. The CustomTune kit comes with a small thread tap included, right?
Yes. Yes, it does.
BufordTJustice
02-02-18, 21:47
Yes. Yes, it does.
Thank you, sir. :)
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Boba Fett v2
02-03-18, 10:10
Before you went on the Unobtanium shopping spree, did you try some different ammo?
https://media.tenor.com/images/b88aaec19e0ceb4ca47c859f410f6908/tenor.png
Hammertime
02-06-18, 11:31
I have seen parts builds lead to all kinds of problems, even when reasonably "good" parts are used. Better off to just buy what you need to begin with imho. Best of luck and hope you can doctor this thing.
B
BufordTJustice
02-07-18, 19:24
I have seen parts builds lead to all kinds of problems, even when reasonably "good" parts are used. Better off to just buy what you need to begin with imho. Best of luck and hope you can doctor this thing.
B
That's constructive.
Feel free to exit this thread.
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I have over a dozen AR's. Not one of them is a factory gun. All of them have been built and rebuilt by me. The highest round count is the SBR with almost 20K at this point. The only malfunctions were ammunition related.
If someone knows what they are doing, if one sources correct components/configurations then you will have a solid rifle.
I have seen parts builds lead to all kinds of problems, even when reasonably "good" parts are used. Better off to just buy what you need to begin with imho. Best of luck and hope you can doctor this thing.
B
Boba Fett v2
02-08-18, 00:02
I have seen parts builds lead to all kinds of problems, even when reasonably "good" parts are used. Better off to just buy what you need to begin with imho. Best of luck and hope you can doctor this thing.
B
What about the factory built carbines that have all kinds of problems? We all know there are quality variations depending on manufacturer and make-up of components sourced and used, but even the most reputable and well respected AR manufacturers let's a lemon slip through QC every now and again. Personally, I have a complete faith in my ability to put together a "parts build", because I know I'm going to put in the time and effort and pay attention to detail, making sure certain components are torqued down to the right spec, and ensure quality parts are used throughout the process. Human error plays a factor in both factory built and so-called "hobby guns" (to use a Travis Haley term). I thought we evolved past this line of thinking.
This rifle is my 4th build (currently building my 5th). I have never put together a rifle that was not reliable, and religiously shoot federal xm193.
This rifle happens to be the first rifle i have decided to suppress, and SBR since i ditched illinois for arizona. Its a slight learning curve for me, but i wouldnt say any of my issues have anything to do with the rifle being garage built.
Pretty sure that if i purchased a Noveske built infidel rifle, and threw a suppressor on it id be in the exact same boat.
I can say that i am learning from all of this, and will be applying it to the current build as that gun will be a 10.3" suppressed gun.
wildlyfe200
02-12-18, 19:10
This rifle is my 4th build (currently building my 5th). I have never put together a rifle that was not reliable, and religiously shoot federal xm193.
This rifle happens to be the first rifle i have decided to suppress, and SBR since i ditched illinois for arizona. Its a slight learning curve for me, but i wouldnt say any of my issues have anything to do with the rifle being garage built.
Pretty sure that if i purchased a Noveske built infidel rifle, and threw a suppressor on it id be in the exact same boat.
I can say that i am learning from all of this, and will be applying it to the current build as that gun will be a 10.3" suppressed gun.The SLR rifle works gas block will solve your issue for sure. That is all almost always a necessity on any AR pattern rifle that is getting a can put on. Unless you are A lucky or B purchased a rifle that the gas port was sized to run suppressed from the get go.
I put one on on my .308 and it is nice. Lowered recoil drastically and I can tune for what ammo I will be using or leave it wide open to run everything or for extra reliability and recoil...hehe.
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Really a correct sized gas port should run reliably with and without a can. I have a 18" Nordic barrel on my primary AR and as it is a barrel intended for 3 gun, has a very conservatively sized gas port. The manufacturer actually notes it was sized to avoid the need for an adjustable gas block for 3 gun rifle. As a byproduct it runs great and is not gassy with a can. The only downside is the without a can, it sometimes doesn't lock open if I run some Wolf.
I also agree this doesn't have anything to do with being a homebuild, and a homebuild with good parts is pretty darn good if all the pieces are matched...
wildlyfe200
02-13-18, 08:01
Really a correct sized gas port should run reliably with and without a can. I have a 18" Nordic barrel on my primary AR and as it is a barrel intended for 3 gun, has a very conservatively sized gas port. The manufacturer actually notes it was sized to avoid the need for an adjustable gas block for 3 gun rifle. As a byproduct it runs great and is not gassy with a can. The only downside is the without a can, it sometimes doesn't lock open if I run some Wolf.
I also agree this doesn't have anything to do with being a homebuild, and a homebuild with good parts is pretty darn good if all the pieces are matched...Yes you are right. A proper gas port "should" run suppressed or not without issue but plenty of factory guns run into this same issue once you slap on a suppressor.
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Update: 11/16/2019.
Gun now exclusively shoots PMX XTAC 62gr 5.56 ammo suppressed or not. The LMT-e carrier is awesome, i now have 3 of them. The SLR adjustable gas block works as it should. I believe i had it dialed in within 2 trips to the range.
My setup now has just under 3,500 rounds through it while suppressed with no issues.
Today i decided to see what would happen shooting xm193 unsuppressed....blowing 1-2 primers per mag, short stroking (which i thought was weird).
At the end of today's range session i was pretty determined to buy a different barrel that has a proper gas port. But it runs perfect with 62gr, so ill just buy and shoot that in everything.
jerrysimons
11-16-19, 16:24
Update: 11/16/2019.
Gun now exclusively shoots PMX XTAC 62gr 5.56 ammo suppressed or not. The LMT-e carrier is awesome, i now have 3 of them. The SLR adjustable gas block works as it should. I believe i had it dialed in within 2 trips to the range.
My setup now has just under 3,500 rounds through it while suppressed with no issues.
Today i decided to see what would happen shooting xm193 unsuppressed....blowing 1-2 primers per mag, short stroking (which i thought was weird).
At the end of today's range session i was pretty determined to buy a different barrel that has a proper gas port. But it runs perfect with 62gr, so ill just buy and shoot that in everything.
I just read this thread for the first time. You have a chamber issue like IraqGunz (blessed be his name) first said was most concerning to him. This is shown because you have effectively fixed the the over gassing issue yet you are still popping primers with a known high pressure ammo 556 ammo. Is this barrel 556 chamber or Noveske Match Mod 0 (that is CHF vs Stainless)? Noveske’s NMM0 chamber is similar to .223 Wylde.
Short stroking is not weird if the chamber is tight, too much friction to pull the case out of the tight chamber which you are now experiencing because you got Noveske’s giant blow hole gas port dialed back with the AdJ gas block and LMT e carrier and it is not driving the bolt back as hard as a result.
Possible, Noveske sucks.
After my update today i have been considering a different brand 13.7 barrel.....
I dunno...
13.7 is such a strange length. If you can go shorter and get a a Sionics Reduced gas port barrel or Extreme Reduced Gas port barrel, that might be an option.
I would go there if possible.
PB
RIP IG
jerrysimons
11-16-19, 20:08
Possible, Noveske sucks.
After my update today i have been considering a different brand 13.7 barrel.....
I dunno...
SOLGW make a properly gassed 13.7” midlength. Triarc Systems makes a 13.9” Mid.
But before you buy a new barrel you should eliminate that ammo as a factor. Is it all from the same case/batch? You
Maybe got some overly hot stuff. Buy new/fresh ammo of the same type to eliminate that batch of XM193 as a variable.
SOLGW make a properly gassed 13.7” midlength. Triarc Systems makes a 13.9” Mid.
But before you buy a new barrel you should eliminate that ammo as a factor. Is it all from the same case/batch? You
Maybe got some overly hot stuff. Buy new/fresh ammo of the same type to eliminate that batch of XM193 as a variable.
Its multiple lots acquired in various quantity over the years. I have an LMT mk18 10.5" upper that eats it just fine (using the same magazines).
I have been looking at the SOLGW barrels this afternoon, i may snag one. Do you know the gas port size for those barrels? This Noveske is .086, tuned down with a SLR adj gas block.
jerrysimons
11-16-19, 20:48
Its multiple lots acquired in various quantity over the years. I have an LMT mk18 10.5" upper that eats it just fine (using the same magazines).
I have been looking at the SOLGW barrels this afternoon, i may snag one. Do you know the gas port size for those barrels? This Noveske is .086, tuned down with a SLR adj gas block.
I am interested myself, I’ll see if I can find it.
What type of barrel is your Noveske stainless or chf? One thing to try would be find a armor who has one of Ned Christiansen’s 556 chamber gauges to check it, if it is chf with a marked 556 chamber. If it is Stainless with a Match chamber it will fail the gauge due to shorter throat length spec. Either way I would say if Noveske won’t warranty the barrel one of Ned’s 556 chamber reamers could be the fix.
I am interested myself, I’ll see if I can find it.
What type of barrel is your Noveske stainless or chf? One thing to try would be find a armor who has one of Ned Christiansen’s 556 chamber gauges to check it, if it is chf with a marked 556 chamber. If it is Stainless with a Match chamber it will fail the gauge due to shorter throat length spec. Either way I would say if Noveske won’t warranty the barrel one of Ned’s 556 chamber reamers could be the fix.
It is the stainless 13.7" infidel, 5.56 1:7 twist. I purchased it in 2014, and had marvin pitts at nefarious arms dimple the barrel to shed a little weight....warranty is void.
This barrel was 100% reliable with federal xm193 before a suppressor. When i added the suppressor is when the issue came up due to the massive gas port in the barrel.
Adding the slr gas block and the LMT-E carrier helped a lot, but this gun is tuned for 5.56 62gr and functions 100% on that. The federal 55gr is when the issues come up while suppressed.
I should try tuning the setup to run suppressed on the 55gr and then see what happens with a heavier bullet.
A properly done barrel should not be that sensitive to ammo.
We routinely test with everything from polymer coated Wolf 55gr 223 to 5.56 pressure mil-spec IMI 77gr Mk262, making sure it all cycles and brass comes out in good shape.
Our 14.5" OPTIMUM MPC runs really nicely both suppressed and unsuppressed with a regular mil-spec BCG.
jerrysimons
11-17-19, 12:06
It is the stainless 13.7" infidel, 5.56 1:7 twist. I purchased it in 2014, and had marvin pitts at nefarious arms dimple the barrel to shed a little weight....warranty is void.
This barrel was 100% reliable with federal xm193 before a suppressor. When i added the suppressor is when the issue came up due to the massive gas port in the barrel.
Adding the slr gas block and the LMT-E carrier helped a lot, but this gun is tuned for 5.56 62gr and functions 100% on that. The federal 55gr is when the issues come up while suppressed.
I should try tuning the setup to run suppressed on the 55gr and then see what happens with a heavier bullet.
If it is a 556 chamber I would hit it with Ned’s gauge and reamer guilt free. Problem is finding an armorer that has those and will do it. They are on my list to purchase but I haven’t yet. Otherwise I guess just shoot it with the ammo it works with or buy a new barrel.
jerrysimons
11-17-19, 14:10
If you are popping primers WITHOUT a silencer and it is not just a bad lot of ammo you have a chamber issue, that’s all I know. SOLGW 13.7” mid is 0.078” gas-port for reference.
My mistake guys, i just realized i typed "unsuppressed" in my update yesterday. I meant to say i tried the federal xm193 suppressed with the adj gas block and lmt-e carrier.
Unsuppressed the xm193 worked as it should, suppressed it still has issues.
Today i Picked up a case of armscor .223 62gr to see how that works.
My mistake guys, i just realized i typed "unsuppressed" in my update yesterday. I meant to say i tried the federal xm193 suppressed with the adj gas block and lmt-e carrier.
Unsuppressed the xm193 worked as it should, suppressed it still has issues.
Today i Picked up a case of armscor .223 62gr to see how that works.
With the suppressor installed, close the gas block until the AR ejects but does not lock back. Then, open the gas block one click and verify that it will lock back. Remove the suppressor. The AR should now eject without locking back. Your AR is now properly tuned for use while suppressed.
This is assuming you have your extractor and ejector sorted out before starting. If you don't, you'll get erratic results. That means if you're getting erratic results, you need to go back and sort out your extractor & ejector.
jerrysimons
11-17-19, 15:31
My mistake guys, i just realized i typed "unsuppressed" in my update yesterday. I meant to say i tried the federal xm193 suppressed with the adj gas block and lmt-e carrier.
Unsuppressed the xm193 worked as it should, suppressed it still has issues.
Today i Picked up a case of armscor .223 62gr to see how that works.
Ok so the issues are only with xm193 suppressed? You are using an SLR adj gas block and LMT e Carrier, H3 buffer?
With this combo you are experiencing popped primers and short stroking? Are you sure short stroking?
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