View Full Version : Would you trust your LIFE to this? (Bar-Sto barrel complaint)
I purchased an in-stock Glock barrel for $270 including shipping from Bar Sto Precision. This is what I received :
http://i63.tinypic.com/mooq0.jpg
How did this go out the door in the first place? Bar-Sto authorized a pre-paid return and asked me to make sure I include all my contact information. Here’s where it gets bad.
After a week of no contact, I call them to make sure they received the return. Woman says she can’t find anything on it, but she will ask another employee when he gets in and call me back.
A few minutes later ding-dong, it’s the mailman at my door. It’s the barrel with paperwork saying it was repaired.
I call them back. Before I can say anything, the woman says they are still looking for my order information. No need I just received it back in the mail. But, there’s a problem with the “repair” job. It looks like a shade-tree mechanic took a dremel to it. These photos are the “repaired” $270 brand new custom “precision” barrel.
http://i66.tinypic.com/33oqet0.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/2rzxwcg.jpg
Guy gets on the phone and starts yapping. “With whom am I speaking”, I say. It’s the owner, Irv. Long story short, I am not happy and ask for a refund. “Absolutely not”, says Irv.
After 5 minutes of him verbally abusing me and calling me names because I promised to share this wonderful experience with y’all, he says he’ll take it back, but I must pay his merchant credit card fees, etc.
No thanks. Filed a claim with AMEX, we’ll see what happens. If they don’t take it back, I don’t feel safe using it in a firearm even just for range use.
Close up or far away the photos tell the story and you can ignore the he said she said part of the story.
Must have been made on Tuesday 01/02/2018! LOL
Sorry for laughing, I know it sucks to get a piece of junk that you just paid good money for. Good luck with the AMEX claim.
For that kinda money, it should be covered and is pretty unacceptable.
There are barrel companies that cover less for cheaper.
The fact that it went out the door in the first place is alarming, but you did the right thing about contesting the charge at that point.
Sorry to see it, hopefully it works out well for you.
No, I would not trust it either. Nor would I be satisfied that my dollar was giving me the best bang for my buck.
9mm_shooter
01-16-18, 12:59
I'm a fan of LWD barrels. Never had a problem with them.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
KKM got a better quality control and customer service.
I'd be teetotaling pissed too. Totally unacceptable. If people cant stand by their work then they don't deserve to receive any.
Especially dude name calling you.
These people arent doing favors. They are being paid for their work which they should stand by.
MountainRaven
01-16-18, 14:10
Who would have thought that when they said their barrels need to be fitted that they need final machine work done, too?
I'd always heard good things about their barrels. Haven't bought any because I don't want to do any fitting on them. After this, I'm not sure I'd ever buy one, unless it was through someone like Jason Burton for a $5000 hand-made, one-off custom 1911.
That round cut out is just there for the guide rod to ride in on reassembly. When the gun locks up the rod slides down and rides on the flat.
I would not accept the sloppy machine work either and I'd have done the same thing you did.
WickedWillis
01-16-18, 14:32
Yeah that is a terrible experience. Sorry OP. Looks like you will b buying your aftermarket barrels elsewhere from now on.
For 270$ and being that bad I would not even accept an exchange only a refund.
Thank you for posting this, I will never buy a barrel made by them, that quality assurance is atrocious.
For 270$ a glock barrel better be better the perfect.
https://i.imgur.com/E7YOwB9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tJ71zlH.jpg
Machining marks look cleaner than mine. I absolutely would, and do, shoot mine without hesitation.
Sorry they were rude to you on the phone. I have not had any interaction with their customer service. Upon receipt, I didn't think twice about the machining marks, fit it, and have been shooting it very happily since.
Please, please, please, don't tell me you shot that offhand. My best offhand is 94 with irons, and trust me it wasn't a Glock 9mm.
In other words, NICE GROUP!
Please, please, please, don't tell me you shot that offhand. My best offhand is 94 with irons, and trust me it wasn't a Glock.
In other words, NICE GROUP!
Yes sir, offhand in around 90 seconds.
And thank you.
Id shoot it and wouldnt trust it until it proved reliable.
I find it odd your first post is a complaint.
To answer your original question- yes, as long as it functioned I’d clean up the burrs and “trust my life “ with it.
The answer to the question of- “is this remotely professional and acceptable coming from an old line, top tier barrel maker” is HELL NO.
BarSto used to be the gold standard. I’ve used a number of them over the years with total satisfaction.
Shame they’d come to this.
Best of luck with your claim.
This is a funny one. That is...
one post OP.
one example of a barrel.
one half of the story.
I are suspicious.
5.56 Bonded SP
01-16-18, 19:07
Mirrors my experience with S&W.
There are usually good reasons why some guys refuse to buy from certain companies.
FlyingHunter
01-16-18, 20:12
The guns I have to protect my life all have factory barrels.
556BlackRifle
01-16-18, 20:19
This is a funny one. That is...
one post OP.
one example of a barrel.
one half of the story.
I are suspicious.
The same thread was locked on the Glock Talk forum for the same reason.
Coal Dragger
01-16-18, 20:58
I met Irv Stone at a gun show a few years ago in Rapid City. Seemed nice and personable to me, had a bunch of guns on the table and all of them seemed to be put together nicely and fitted well.
So based on my personal face to face interaction I find the OP to be dubious. Not saying things haven’t changed since I last saw Irv but he was polite and nice to me, and answered all of my dumb questions.
The guns I have to protect my life all have factory barrels.
Amen.
The same thread was locked on the Glock Talk forum for the same reason.
That changes a lot.
Pobody's Nerfect. Some people just have bad days and all. Most will make it right (as they should).
Bar Sto makes good stuff and while I wouldnt want something rough looking if I am paying to hand fit, maybe there is, as Paul Harvey says, more to the story.
I wouldnt want to be cussed at over the phone but cant prove that happened. If Bar Sto is willing to make it look right and nice then why gripe?
I'm getting skeptical too....
Coal Dragger
01-17-18, 01:39
The guns I have to protect my life all have factory barrels.
Yep, either the gun you’re trusting has a good enough barrel to make bullets go where needed, or it’s not a trusted gun.
It boggles my mind why someone would carry a pistol, or rifle with mediocre mechanical accuracy when they have an alternative that would be just as reliable but shoot better.
Accepting the possibility that this whole thing seems off-i wonder if BarSto got to see the pictures?
Coal Dragger
01-17-18, 04:50
I wonder if Bar-Sto actually made the “correction” in this case?
Could this be a case of the part showing up, and the new owner trying to fix this themselves, doing an ugly job and then calling the manufacturer? I can see why Bar-Sto would decline to give a full refund if the customer or the customer’s “gunsmith” took it upon themselves to try to fix the issue.
I am the OP. I read and get good advice from the forum, but don't post unless I have something to offer that is helpful to others.
Bar Sto replied the following on another forum.
I inquired about the incident- this is an unabridged response:
"I am sure you understand there is always another side to the story. The first time the barrel went out it had a off center spring guide assembly notch on the barrel. It was missed and should not have been sent out like that. We received the barrel back and re machined it square and sent it back. The pictures are Very zoomed in and the cut is not bad.With the naked eye you would have a hard time picking the cut apart. Unless you are just looking for a reason to complain about something.
It is just for reference only a assembly notch. It has no functional use after the firearm is reassembled. It only holds the spring guide in place to reassemble the slide on the frame.Then the guide rod stops on the frame not the barrel. We have been doing the same cut same way for years and he is the first person to EVER complain about it the way it is now. Our quality is top notch and I would use that barrel in my gun and carry it without any issue what so ever. He was and is a very rude and disrespectful person and that is also part of the problem. Hope this helps a bit.
Thank you,
Irv Stone III"
Close up or far away the photos tell the story and you can ignore the he said she said part of the story.
Would you accept this for $270. If it's so good, why not accept the return and sell it to another customer. I almost cut my finger on the metal shavings.
I was polite up until he said "Absolutely not" and he really went ballistic and started name-calling when I promised to share this with the forums. Called it "blackmail". My money back for his "top notch" quality does not constitute blackmail.
All I want is a full refund and someone else can enjoy this "top notch" product.
southswede
01-17-18, 13:17
During ANY dispute, there are three sides: "his" side, "her" side, with the third side being the truth. The truth is always some where in the middle. The middle ground usually slides to one side or the other. In this case, based on what the OP has posted, I would say the truth in this matter leans substantially towards Irv Stone.
During ANY dispute, there are three sides: "his" side, "her" side, with the third side being the truth. The truth is always some where in the middle. The middle ground usually slides to one side or the other. In this case, based on what the OP has posted, I would say the truth in this matter leans substantially towards Irv Stone.
Not sure I agree. The pics tell the real 3rd side of the story. If BarSto thinks it's acceptable, then take it back for a refund. The customer is not satisfied and neither would I be with that rough level of machine work. Especially for $270
During ANY dispute, there are three sides: "his" side, "her" side, with the third side being the truth. The truth is always some where in the middle. The middle ground usually slides to one side or the other. In this case, based on what the OP has posted, I would say the truth in this matter leans substantially towards Irv Stone.
I have no dog in this fight. I'm sure there is more to this story, but it may not make any difference. That barrel looks very bad. Bar-Sto had the chance to make this right, and they did not.
I take what the OP says with a grain of salt. However, I appreciate him posting this information and the pictures. There are too many other high quality barrel manufacturers out there for anyone to have to go through this with one of the lesser ones.
Joe Mamma
For comparison, a KKM barrel which i am 100% satisfied with. It looks like shit too.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sn6vq2va9lnfded/Photo%20Jan%2017%2C%206%2028%2031%20PM.png?raw=1
And just to keep the theme:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gb0oz57ocn8z726/Photo%20Sep%2009%2C%203%2044%2025%20PM.jpg?raw=1
Your KKM has Nowhere near as much chatter and kerf as the Barsto pics shown by the OP. Plus yours is dirty. Post a clean pic?
Thanks, I would not buy a barrel from either one.
Thanks, I would not buy a barrel from either one.
Who do you buy your aftermarket glock barrels from and why?
Your KKM has Nowhere near as much chatter and kerf as the Barsto pics shown by the OP. Plus yours is dirty. Post a clean pic?
The point is its not “perfect”, there are clearly tooling marks, rough edges, and it shoots great. Compared to the stock barrel, it looks worse but performs better. IMO OP should give the barrel a shooting chance. Just offering my opinion on the matter.
Thanks, I would not buy a barrel from either one.
And thats okay. But both companies are, as far as i know, 2 of the best pistol barrel manufactures out there.
Personally, I would want to exchange the boogered machined barrel for one that had better machining. I was a machinist who ran manual lathes and mills and CNC lathes and mills pretty much my whole life. The boogered barrel could shoot lights out and its only a recoil spring assembly cut on the barrel, but I just want things to be as right as possible for the money I am paying. Someone else may not care about it, and thats okay, but I would like a choice.
noonesshowmonkey
01-18-18, 00:58
This is the only real thing in the thread. If you haven't mounted it, shot it, etc., then what is the big problem? Do you not have a file or some fine grit sandpaper to take down a single bur? Which bur, by the way, is not on a portion of the barrel that has any mechanical interface whatever.
There are exactly two exterior surfaces that matter on these barrels: the camming surfaces that interface with the locking block, and the breech face. Beyond that, the notch cut out on the front face of the barrel hood is only to loosely hold the rear of the recoil spring, which is actually kept in place at by the slide. Only if the barrel hood or block were out of spec as a result of a bur and would not interface with the slide, then (then!) you'd have a problem. But, you don't. Or, maybe you do. You don't know, because you haven't shot it yet.
The critical surfaces of your barrel look like they are in great shape, and a quick pass with a file (which, by the way, you'll probably need to hand fit this barrel anyway), and you're cooking with gas. Good luck putting up groups as good as GTF425's, though.
If you're pissed off that you thought you were buying a fully finished and immaculately manicured dressage horse and what you got was a barely broken in thoroughbred, then fine. Be pissed about it. For $270, maybe you're entitled to having it look the way you want it to look. Personally, I would be more concerned with the groups that I could get out of the barrel than how it looks sitting on my desk. Call me crazy.
This is the only real thing in the thread. If you haven't mounted it, shot it, etc., then what is the big problem? Do you not have a file or some fine grit sandpaper to take down a single bur? Which bur, by the way, is not on a portion of the barrel that has any mechanical interface whatever.
There are exactly two exterior surfaces that matter on these barrels: the camming surfaces that interface with the locking block, and the breech face. Beyond that, the notch cut out on the front face of the barrel hood is only to loosely hold the rear of the recoil spring, which is actually kept in place at by the slide. Only if the barrel hood or block were out of spec as a result of a bur and would not interface with the slide, then (then!) you'd have a problem. But, you don't. Or, maybe you do. You don't know, because you haven't shot it yet.
The critical surfaces of your barrel look like they are in great shape, and a quick pass with a file (which, by the way, you'll probably need to hand fit this barrel anyway), and you're cooking with gas. Good luck putting up groups as good as GTF425's, though.
If you're pissed off that you thought you were buying a fully finished and immaculately manicured dressage horse and what you got was a barely broken in thoroughbred, then fine. Be pissed about it. For $270, maybe your entitled to having it look the way you want it to look. Personally, I would be more concerned with the groups that I could get out of the barrel than how it looks sitting on my desk. Call me crazy.
I'm going to have to go ahead and second this. At the end of the day performance is what matters most, aesthetics mean nothing. Further nobody is (or should be) buying a hard fit barrel and expecting anything other than maximum performance gains.
Coal Dragger
01-18-18, 03:43
Maybe I should post a photo of the barrel on my P226 X5. From the factory there are a bunch of tooling marks, and probably file marks.
Match barrels start out life way oversize, and are then fitted to the gun. In my limited experience the only parts of the barrel that the gunsmith will really pay attention to are those areas that need to be fit for function and accuracy. The rest of the part might look like hell and it will not matter.
Maybe I should post a photo of the barrel on my P226 X5. From the factory there are a bunch of tooling marks, and probably file marks.
Match barrels start out life way oversize, and are then fitted to the gun. In my limited experience the only parts of the barrel that the gunsmith will really pay attention to are those areas that need to be fit for function and accuracy. The rest of the part might look like hell and it will not matter.If you could post pictures of your x5 barrel, that would be awesome. I've been eyeing an x5 for a long time and I'm just really curious. Thanks.
I have Wilson barrels for my G17 and G19 and they do not have the tooling marks such as those shown here on the KKM and Barsto barrels. Just a sample of 2 though.
I think one of the main takeaways is mfgs
Should have consistency in the quality and inspection and customer service
What Barsto did was not acceptable
Those who say only function matters
I would wager those folks would balk at paying full tilt for an externally boogered (insert favorite ar brand)
I think one of the main takeaways is mfgs
Should have consistency in the quality and inspection and customer service
What Barsto did was not acceptable
Those who say only function matters
I would wager those folks would balk at paying full tilt for an externally boogered (insert favorite ar brand)
Kind of.
Stick with me here, as it's all in the "Your Mileage May Vary" aspect.
Someone would finger up a Colt, see the spottier machining, light roll marks, crooked markings, dings or smudges; and still buy it without much thought. Mainly because Colt is known to function very well and reliably, but they are not known for their exorbitant purtiness. Because duty guns don't care if the rollmark is a little askew or light.
It does it's job and throws bullets. But it's also on par with the expectations of those who purchase those rifles. Also, it's a full rifle, not a component.
I think we can all agree, on some levels, that if it functions in the gun, great. But, my biggest issue is: I am paying 200+ for a barrel that is supposed to exceed the expectations and performances of factory barrels.
Why, then, are those barrels not polished up and purty? For 270 dollars, that is money that is spent on the consumer end with expectations.
Like the OP said, if that's acceptable by their standards, they should refund it and sell it to another person. No loss, no foul on the company's end. Especially if they charge the return shipping on the customer.
Regardless of the Triple Sides Theory, as a business, why not just make the customer happy?
Whether it's a return, refund, etc. If they're confident in their product, there shouldn't be any issues at all.
On the consumer end, he's doing the communities a service. 1st post or not, how much he fed into the situation or not, the actions of the company speak loudly regardless.
On that topic, I am really sorry. Call me crazy, if you like, but when you're shelling out over half the cost of the factory firearm, I expect the machining to be as good, if not better, than the way the factory barrel arrives.
Sorry, but no excuses. Their product should reflect their care for the consumer. The fact it was sent out in that manner in the first place is unacceptable. Halfassing a fast job to get it back to the customer just doesn't sit well with me.
Yes, he could file down a burr, but what the hell did he pay 270 for? I can understand hand fitting, but it should show up damn near immaculate and shiny as far as I am concerned.
I can’t think of a good reason to care what the inside of a glock looks like. Does it shoot? Maybe it would look better slathered in oily soot, bits of unburned powder, and tiny brass shavings.
Snip...
Those who say only function matters
I would wager those folks would balk at paying full tilt for an externally boogered (insert favorite ar brand)
His barrel isn’t boogered externally. It is boogered in an area that is not visible when assembled, and does not affect function.
Kind of.
Stick with me here, as it's all in the "Your Mileage May Vary" aspect.
Someone would finger up a Colt, see the spottier machining, light roll marks, crooked markings, dings or smudges; and still buy it without much thought. Mainly because Colt is known to function very well and reliably, but they are not known for their exorbitant purtiness. Because duty guns don't care if the rollmark is a little askew or light.
It does it's job and throws bullets. But it's also on par with the expectations of those who purchase those rifles. Also, it's a full rifle, not a component.
I think we can all agree, on some levels, that if it functions in the gun, great. But, my biggest issue is: I am paying 200+ for a barrel that is supposed to exceed the expectations and performances of factory barrels.
Why, then, are those barrels not polished up and purty? For 270 dollars, that is money that is spent on the consumer end with expectations.
Like the OP said, if that's acceptable by their standards, they should refund it and sell it to another person. No loss, no foul on the company's end. Especially if they charge the return shipping on the customer.
Regardless of the Triple Sides Theory, as a business, why not just make the customer happy?
Whether it's a return, refund, etc. If they're confident in their product, there shouldn't be any issues at all.
On the consumer end, he's doing the communities a service. 1st post or not, how much he fed into the situation or not, the actions of the company speak loudly regardless.
On that topic, I am really sorry. Call me crazy, if you like, but when you're shelling out over half the cost of the factory firearm, I expect the machining to be as good, if not better, than the way the factory barrel arrives.
Sorry, but no excuses. Their product should reflect their care for the consumer. The fact it was sent out in that manner in the first place is unacceptable. Halfassing a fast job to get it back to the customer just doesn't sit well with me.
Yes, he could file down a burr, but what the hell did he pay 270 for? I can understand hand fitting, but it should show up damn near immaculate and shiny as far as I am concerned.
Well said- and agree :) A premium brand marketing a premium reputation charging a premium price should have premium QC, Fit/Finish and CS
Kind of.
I think we can all agree, on some levels, that if it functions in the gun, great. But, my biggest issue is: I am paying 200+ for a barrel that is supposed to exceed the expectations and performances of factory barrels.
Hopefully you'd actually fit and shoot the barrel first
Why, then, are those barrels not polished up and purty? For 270 dollars, that is money that is spent on the consumer end with expectations.
Because the target population for these barrels are shooters and not folks posting on Instagram
Like the OP said, if that's acceptable by their standards, they should refund it and sell it to another person. No loss, no foul on the company's end. Especially if they charge the return shipping on the customer.
Regardless of the Triple Sides Theory, as a business, why not just make the customer happy?
Because all to often in all walks of life customers are generally autistic and this is especially relevant in the gun industry/cult culture (I'm not directing this at the OP but just in general)
Whether it's a return, refund, etc. If they're confident in their product, there shouldn't be any issues at all.
On that topic, I am really sorry. Call me crazy, if you like, but when you're shelling out over half the cost of the factory firearm, I expect the machining to be as good, if not better, than the way the factory barrel arrives.
Sorry, but no excuses. Their product should reflect their care for the consumer. The fact it was sent out in that manner in the first place is unacceptable. Halfassing a fast job to get it back to the customer just doesn't sit well with me.
Their customer base are shooters who want/need barrels of grouping 1" at 25 yards and 2" at 50 yards
Yes, he could file down a burr, but what the hell did he pay 270 for? I can understand hand fitting, but it should show up damn near immaculate and shiny as far as I am concerned.
Then your not the target base for their product. Everyone's gotten spoiled on tjhe Gucci ZEV/AGENCY/SALIENT meme pistols in recent years
Musings in red.
I don't think is so much about the "looks" as much as it is about what such poor attention to detail implies about the overall quality of the part. Not to mention the customer service.
Those of you who insist that "looks" are completely irrelevant, and that the only thing worthy of consideration is function, I have a question for you: which of you wouldn't care about buying a brand new Colt 6940, for example, that had been dropped a few times on some rocks? Hey, it's just a few gouges and scratches, right? Which of you would pick the gouged/scratched rifle over the identically configured spotless one for the same price? Anyone?
Musings in red.
I can appreciate your feedback.
I just don't see how 15 minutes worth of time for a guy to QC a barrel and run it through a polisher isn't worth it when you're making a markup like that.
You would be correct though, I am not in their market. While I understand your rhetoric regarding instragram and such, that's not really a factor to my opine.
Machining is as much an art as any other, and I like the way clean machining looks. We could make metaphors and analogies while comparing the gun industry to the car industry (or etc) in regard to performance parts. But, at the end of the day it is preference.
In my preference, and opine, high end performance parts should fit the bill in fit and finish. Even if it takes a little tweaking on the consumer end to use it.
Nonetheless, you make some valid rebuttals in red.
I don't think is so much about the "looks" as much as it is about what such poor attention to detail implies about the overall quality of the part. Not to mention the customer service.
Those of you who insist that "looks" are completely irrelevant, and that the only thing worthy of consideration is function, I have a question for you: which of you wouldn't care about buying a brand new Colt 6940, for example, that had been dropped a few times on some rocks? Hey, it's just a few gouges and scratches, right? Which of you would pick the gouged/scratched rifle over the identically configured spotless one for the same price? Anyone?
This x1000!
jackblack73
01-18-18, 12:40
If it was my business I’d be embarrassed to let a product go out looking like that. It looks like something Red Jacket from that TV show would do. I can’t believe so many people feel it’s ok. If it was a repair in the field and I was going to war I wouldn’t care because the function is fine. But I expect more from businesses I spend money with.
noonesshowmonkey
01-18-18, 16:38
That is an objective view of the quality of that part.
I see no groups shot by the OPs barrel, no pics of the barrel (hand!) fitted to his weapon. I see no discussion of if the barrel delivers the accuracy that is on offer from the BarSto name.
I have bought French made copper cookware that is 2mm of beautiful copper with hand tinned lining. I paid far less than what you would from Mauviel or Ruffino or whomever. I was cleaning one of them when I first started to acquire them (my collection has grown quite large), and I cut my finger on the rim of one of the pots. The rim was largely unfinished, and the edge was extremely sharp, holding a near perfect 90 degree shelf of metal that would and did slice easily through a wet finger. Such a thing is not encountered when dealing with the above named makers, but their products cost five times as much... I pulled out my files and rounded the edge, finishing it with some steel wool to a polish. The result is a very handsome and toothsome edge that looks good, feels good, and won't cut my finger. At no point did I buy these pans to look a certain way, or to not cut my fingers. I bought them to give me the most precise control over my cooking environment possible in order to turn out the best food from my kitchen that I could manage. They take all of the variables out of the equation: the only thing left is me.
You are either a seeker, who wants to push yourself and find knowledge at any cost, or you get hung up on a minor detail of a hand-fit part that can be solved with a single pass of a file--which file you already have in your hand in order to hand-fit said part!--and then get on to the actual goal at hand: shooting.
If this barrel has failed to deliver (ie it won't fit, or the groups are terrible), then I have ears for this series of complaints. As is, the OP bought a product expecting it to be pristine and perfect to his imaginary standards, received something with a minor manufacturing flaw that would take all of 30 seconds to clean off on a part that is ADVERTISED as requiring hand tools to fit, refused to mount the barrel, god forbid shoot it, much less post groups that indicate that the barrel had failed in it's main purpose: accuracy. Frankly, it is no surprise that BarSto was not exactly happy getting an angry man on the phone complaining of something so minor, and who had yet to even MOUNT THE BARREL. Go get a file or some steel wool and GROW. UP.
That is an objective view of the quality of that part.
I see no groups shot by the OPs barrel, no pics of the barrel (hand!) fitted to his weapon. I see no discussion of if the barrel delivers the accuracy that is on offer from the BarSto name.
I have bought French made copper cookware that is 2mm of beautiful copper with hand tinned lining. I paid far less than what you would from Mauviel or Ruffino or whomever. I was cleaning one of them when I first started to acquire them (my collection has grown quite large), and I cut my finger on the rim of one of the pots. The rim was largely unfinished, and the edge was extremely sharp, holding a near perfect 90 degree shelf of metal that would and did slice easily through a wet finger. Such a thing is not encountered when dealing with the above named makers, but their products cost five times as much... I pulled out my files and rounded the edge, finishing it with some steel wool to a polish. The result is a very handsome and toothsome edge that looks good, feels good, and won't cut my finger. At no point did I buy these pans to look a certain way, or to not cut my fingers. I bought them to give me the most precise control over my cooking environment possible in order to turn out the best food from my kitchen that I could manage. They take all of the variables out of the equation: the only thing left is me.
You are either a seeker, who wants to push yourself and find knowledge at any cost, or you get hung up on a minor detail of a hand-fit part that can be solved with a single pass of a file--which file you already have in your hand in order to hand-fit said part!--and then get on to the actual goal at hand: shooting.
If this barrel has failed to deliver (ie it won't fit, or the groups are terrible), then I have ears for this series of complaints. As is, the OP bought a product expecting it to be pristine and perfect to his imaginary standards, received something with a minor manufacturing flaw that would take all of 30 seconds to clean off on a part that is ADVERTISED as requiring hand tools to fit, refused to mount the barrel, god forbid shoot it, much less post groups that indicate that the barrel had failed in it's main purpose: accuracy. Go get a file or some steel wool and GROW. UP.
Unfortunately, the OP did pay the premium price for the premium barrel. He didn't buy the $100 barrel, he bought the $270 one, therefore your analogy doesn't work. That kind of sloppiness is unacceptable for that price, not to mention the rudeness he was subject to when he expressed his dissatisfaction to the owner.
noonesshowmonkey
01-18-18, 16:51
Unfortunately, the OP did pay the premium price for the premium barrel. He didn't buy the $100 barrel, he bought the $270 one, therefore your analogy doesn't work. That kind of sloppiness is unacceptable for that price, not to mention the rudeness he was subject to when he expressed his dissatisfaction to the owner.
Link me to a Match Fit Glock barrel from BarSto that is $100, please. I'll buy five of them.
Link me to a Match Fit Glock barrel from BarSto that is $100, please. I'll buy five of them.
Exactly! And for that price, you wouldn't complain about poor finishing. But at $270?
Exactly! And for that price, you wouldn't complain about poor finishing. But at $270?
No because in the world of quality where performance is the only metric used to validate a product 270$ is a pultry pittance.
If people actually strive to be shooters such costs are inconsequential relative to costs associated with ammo consumption.
Most folks don’t shoot enough to burn out a factory barrel let alone shoot to a level of proficiency necessitating a hard fit match barrel.
Because once you do the only metric you care about is performance. See how that works ?
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Coal Dragger
01-18-18, 19:43
If you could post pictures of your x5 barrel, that would be awesome. I've been eyeing an x5 for a long time and I'm just really curious. Thanks.
http://i.imgur.com/PYej2Jo.jpg
Coal Dragger
01-18-18, 19:44
http://i.imgur.com/cUdbyHd.jpg
Wow, that really is surprising. Thanks for posting it.
Coal Dragger
01-18-18, 19:47
http://i.imgur.com/6su3jjU.jpg
Coal Dragger
01-18-18, 19:50
Has no negative effects on function at all. Rest of the pistol looks like a Swiss watch inside. The barrel clearly started out oversized and had to be fitted at the front of the barrel hood, and the camming surfaces.
Shoots very well. Easily the most accurate .40 S&W I’ve ever fired.
#ToolMarksGate
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180119/dde627d6088ce10968b3c8340eeec09a.jpg
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Coal Dragger
01-18-18, 20:00
Oh noes! There are tool marks on a part! We’re all going to die!
Never mind function is 100% and the gun flat out makes bullets go where you want.
I can appreciate your feedback.
I just don't see how 15 minutes worth of time for a guy to QC a barrel and run it through a polisher isn't worth it when you're making a markup like that.
You would be correct though, I am not in their market. While I understand your rhetoric regarding instragram and such, that's not really a factor to my opine.
Machining is as much an art as any other, and I like the way clean machining looks. We could make metaphors and analogies while comparing the gun industry to the car industry (or etc) in regard to performance parts. But, at the end of the day it is preference.
In my preference, and opine, high end performance parts should fit the bill in fit and finish. Even if it takes a little tweaking on the consumer end to use it.
Nonetheless, you make some valid rebuttals in red.
How do you know what their profit margin is?
The fact that they state the barrels need fit makes the thing irrelevant. You need to take a file to it anyway.
grizzlyblake
01-18-18, 20:28
I'd be pretty upset myself. I get that it doesn't affect function but it's lazy on the manufacturer to let a "top notch" product out the door like that, and it's lazy on my part to not require high standards in exchange for my money.
I wouldn't want to teach my kid that it's fine to deliver a junky looking product to a customer as long as it worked right, when he should have enough pride to do it right the first time.
I'd be pretty upset myself. I get that it doesn't affect function but it's lazy on the manufacturer to let a "top notch" product out the door like that, and it's lazy on my part to not require high standards in exchange for my money.
I wouldn't want to teach my kid that it's fine to deliver a junky looking product to a customer as long as it worked right, when he should have enough pride to do it right the first time.
Copy.
Not a shooter.
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I literally did not even notice the machining marks on mine, just that I’m able to shoot 2” groups at 50 yards with it.
This is why I hate gun people and why none of my friends are shooters.
Bitching about the dumbest shit.
Coal Dragger
01-18-18, 20:48
Pretty much.
grizzlyblake
01-18-18, 20:53
Copy.
Not a shooter.
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Incorrect. I shoot a 6720 and a 6920 that look like they were assembled by Century or something. I don't get wrapped around the axle about it but it's a shame that quality standards are so low.
Incorrect. I shoot a 6720 and a 6920 that look like they were assembled by Century or something. I don't get wrapped around the axle about it but it's a shame that quality standards are so low.
Folks keep using this word quality but it doesn’t mean what they think it means.
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I purchased an in-stock Glock barrel for $270 including shipping from Bar Sto Precision. This is what I received :
How did this go out the door in the first place? Bar-Sto authorized a pre-paid return and asked me to make sure I include all my contact information. Here’s where it gets bad.
After a week of no contact, I call them to make sure they received the return. Woman says she can’t find anything on it, but she will ask another employee when he gets in and call me back.
A few minutes later ding-dong, it’s the mailman at my door. It’s the barrel with paperwork saying it was repaired.
I call them back. Before I can say anything, the woman says they are still looking for my order information. No need I just received it back in the mail. But, there’s a problem with the “repair” job. It looks like a shade-tree mechanic took a dremel to it. These photos are the “repaired” $270 brand new custom “precision” barrel.
Guy gets on the phone and starts yapping. “With whom am I speaking”, I say. It’s the owner, Irv. Long story short, I am not happy and ask for a refund. “Absolutely not”, says Irv.
After 5 minutes of him verbally abusing me and calling me names because I promised to share this wonderful experience with y’all, he says he’ll take it back, but I must pay his merchant credit card fees, etc.
No thanks. Filed a claim with AMEX, we’ll see what happens. If they don’t take it back, I don’t feel safe using it in a firearm even just for range use.
Close up or far away the photos tell the story and you can ignore the he said she said part of the story.
What was the reason to not use the Glock barrel?
hopetonbrown
01-18-18, 22:38
I literally did not even notice the machining marks on mine, just that I’m able to shoot 2” groups at 50 yards with it.
This is why I hate gun people and why none of my friends are shooters.
There's a difference between gun people and shooters.
Gun people want everything to match, bothered about scratches, easily upset when vendors don't share their same passion about aesthetic.
Shooters are invested in the process, not the product.
militarymoron
01-18-18, 22:51
There's a difference between gun people and shooters.
Gun people want everything to match, bothered about scratches, easily upset when vendors don't share their same passion about aesthetic.
Shooters are invested in the process, not the product.
No, shooters can also appreciate well-manufactured products and attention to detail. So, from what you're saying, you wouldn't mind if I spray painted your fave rifle pink since it still shoots the same? Or would that aesthetic bother you?
No, shooters can also appreciate well-manufactured products and attention to detail. So, from what you're saying, you wouldn't mind if I spray painted your fave rifle pink since it still shoots the same? Or does that aesthetic bother you?
Is one fighting in the bubble gum forest where the color pink functionally serve to break up the outline of rifle thus serving the needs of the shooter? If yes then yes.
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militarymoron
01-18-18, 23:02
Is one fighting in the bubble gum forest where the color pink functionally serve to break up the outline of rifle thus serving the needs of the shooter? If yes then yes.
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As opposed to fighting in the coal mine that a black rifle blends into? Who knows where you're going to fight.
Some of us just go to the range to have fun because we like shooting.
TomMontana
01-19-18, 00:01
Wow, the barrel looks awful. The owner took offense that a customer gave him an earful and had the gall to point out the poor QC/workmanship. Bar-Sto messed up first and had a chance to make it right with the customer and they bungled that as well. Hope it works out for you OP.
OMG so much mess talk
http://i25.tinypic.com/2yvwhoh.jpg looks gay, right? Like Malibu Barbie right? This was the state of the badass art in desert camo once upon a WWII.
The bullet may not care but the wear and contact points on your gun do. But not my gun. Fitted means fitted. Pobody's nerfect. For every 99 masterpieces you get one less than amazing one. Life happens.
I'm dont baby my stuff but I dont abuse it either. I've had custom guns with custom barrels from Glock 21s to Model 10 expressly for PPC and I wouldn't have been impressed with that barrel OP posted.
I would have called someone but would have been nice because hey, not everyone is malicious or uncaring. Shit happens. Patience isn't just for doctors.
Not saying it happened here, but I wont be cussed at by someone I'm paying. But no proof that happened in this case so I wont go there.
Proper fitting doesn't matter until it does.
You can do a lot with stock Glock barrels. The only thing holding them back is the trigger. No matter how tactile the reset; it is still pretty spongy even with a minus connector.
But if you are handloading, using lead or wadcutters, or are just trying to eke out a bit more precision for a 1500 match; then a custom barrel is not a bad investment. You do want it to fit right. Glocks may not have a collet bushing or a link but they are Browning style tilting barrels so tolerances still need to be respected for long term use but....
JMHO
YMMV
militarymoron
01-19-18, 08:07
looks gay, right? Like Malibu Barbie right? This was the state of the badass art in desert camo once upon a WWII.
I actually built the 1/48 scale Tamiya plastic model of one of those SAS pink panther land rovers in the 80's.
'Quality' means different things to different people, but as it pertains to this discussion, I'd define it as how well a product conforms to a spec as well as the customer's subjective expectation/perception based on a company's reputation and price of the product. If my barrel's machining is off in one area, and that is not normal, it's indicative of an inconsistency in the manufacturing process. Consistency/repeatability of a manufacturing process and the final product is one of the many measures of manufacturing quality.
Anyway, if I received a drop-in barrel from a top tier manufacturer like Bar-Sto with the cuts shown, it would make me ask a few questions before I shot it. I'd wonder:
1. Do all Bar-Sto drop in barrels ship out like that? If not, what else on the barrel might be out of spec? Rather than shooting it first, I'd make an inquiry so I can return it as received. If it's not consistent with other barrels produced, it's a blem, and should be treated as such.
2. What's the spec for that part of the barrel? Is it in spec or not? If it's out of spec, i'd like one in spec. If the spec is that large, why don't we see this more often on other manf barrels?
I don't think it unreasonable to hold Bar-Sto to a higher standard than Lone Wolf for example. I'd be a bit disappointed, considering the KKM and Surefire/Zev barrels I have are pretty much perfect in that area. If I'm going to buy a Snap-on tool and pay the price, I'd expect to receive something that meets the expectation of quality that Snap-on advertises.
If 'shooter' is defined as one who only cares about the process and not the product, then the only place that real 'shooters' should post in is the Training and Tactics section of this board, and leave the rest of the product discussion forums to 'gun people'.
This is why I hate gun people and why none of my friends are gun people, paramedics, Soldiers, cops, or dirtbike racers.
Bitching about the dumbest shit.
Fixed.
Folks keep using this word quality but it doesn’t mean what they think it means.
Well put, sir.
No, shooters can also appreciate well-manufactured products and attention to detail. So, from what you're saying, you wouldn't mind if I spray painted your fave rifle pink since it still shoots the same? Or would that aesthetic bother you?
If I’m in the right environment, and can continue to rattle can it other colors with a laundry bag as necessary, sure. Pink might go good with tan as a second color.
Barrel requires hand fitting. Fit it and let us know how it shoots.
grizzlyblake
01-19-18, 09:46
This is essentially the same back and forth discussion that was had when people started posting photos of their brand new Colt 6920s coming out of the box all scratched up and with incomplete roll marks.
The "shooters" said it doesn't matter and you should ignore cosmetic imperfections since they don't affect performance. The other half of buyers expressed dissatisfaction with their brand new Colt rifle looking junky.
I don't know anything about the manufacturing and QC process of firearms and parts. Is there two different QC inspection lines on these things? Like everything on the inside that you can't see MUST be 100% up to spec because it matters, but the outside doesn't have to pass QC since it's only aesthetics?
That aside, where is the line of tolerance for the "shooters?" If a brand new Aimpoint micro showed up with the finish all scratched up and the lettering on the dial only half done would it matter, or would that be considered bitching about the dumbest shit?
Fixed.
For what it’s worth, we never talk guns because it’s boring. If that’s all people want to talk about, I’m bored in 10-ish minutes.
After 3 years in Afghanistan as an 11B and currently working for the highest call volume EMS Agency in Georgia (and one of the busiest in the nation), the people I consider friends have outgrown guns as anything more than a hobby. Gun people just bore me to talk to.
I do not consider myself a shooter.
OMG so much mess talk looks gay, right? Like Malibu Barbie right? This was the state of the badass art in desert camo once upon a WWII.
The bullet may not care but the wear and contact points on your gun do. But not my gun. Fitted means fitted. Pobody's nerfect. For every 99 masterpieces you get one less than amazing one. Life happens.
I'm dont baby my stuff but I dont abuse it either. I've had custom guns with custom barrels from Glock 21s to Model 10 expressly for PPC and I wouldn't have been impressed with that barrel OP posted.
I would have called someone but would have been nice because hey, not everyone is malicious or uncaring. Shit happens. Patience isn't just for doctors.
Not saying it happened here, but I wont be cussed at by someone I'm paying. But no proof that happened in this case so I wont go there.
Proper fitting doesn't matter until it does.
You can do a lot with stock Glock barrels. The only thing holding them back is the trigger. No matter how tactile the reset; it is still pretty spongy even with a minus connector.
But if you are handloading, using lead or wadcutters, or are just trying to eke out a bit more precision for a 1500 match; then a custom barrel is not a bad investment. You do want it to fit right. Glocks may not have a collet bushing or a link but they are Browning style tilting barrels so tolerances still need to be respected for long term use but....
JMHO
YMMV
Notice the pan to catch the dripping oil. I hope someone takes it out once and a while.
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That aside, where is the line of tolerance for the "shooters?" If a brand new Aimpoint micro showed up with the finish all scratched up and the lettering on the dial only half done would it matter, or would that be considered bitching about the dumbest shit?
For me, if a blem is external, and does not affect usage, I don’t care. My rifles get Krylon, anyway, generally. My pistols will get holster wear, and might see files or sandpaper, if necessary. For example, I de-flashed and “melted” some sharp edges on my PX-4 frame with files and sandpaper.
If a blem is internal, I only care about function and longevity. I don’t mind taking a file to a part, within reason.
If the lens on a new Aimpoint were scratched, I would consider it a functional problem. Body of it, not so much. I might be concerned that the seller shipped me a used model or one that had been returned, however.
I buy blems or display models on purpose, as available for cost savings.
For what it’s worth, we never talk guns because it’s boring. If that’s all people want to talk about, I’m bored in 10-ish minutes.
After 3 years in Afghanistan as an 11B and currently working for the highest call volume EMS Agency in Georgia (and one of the busiest in the nation), the people I consider friends have outgrown guns as anything more than a hobby. Gun people just bore me to talk to.
I do not consider myself a shooter.
You must be bored here![emoji12]
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Outlander Systems
01-19-18, 10:14
I have an autism awareness train-themed guitar strap I modified to accept QD swivels as a rifle sling.
I can count on 0 fingers the one-night stands, hand-shandies, and blowies I've gotten from hot chicks for having an "aesthetically-pleasant" bullet hose.
The same can be said about the sick-assed hydro-dipped Kryptek DeWalt drill I have.
The good Lord knows that, when discussing the application of screws, aesthetics is a high priority item.
No, shooters can also appreciate well-manufactured products and attention to detail. So, from what you're saying, you wouldn't mind if I spray painted your fave rifle pink since it still shoots the same? Or would that aesthetic bother you?
You must be bored here![emoji12]
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Honestly, I only responded to this thread because I own a Bar Sto barrel and another member shot me a text and asked for me to check it out.
I have nothing to contribute to the overwhelming majority of threads on gun forums. I’m nowhere near as tech savvy as a lot of guys, and I’m also not excited by gun stuff.
I’d rather read a JSOM.
grizzlyblake
01-19-18, 10:29
For me, if a blem is external, and does not affect usage, I don’t care. My rifles get Krylon, anyway, generally. My pistols will get holster wear, and might see files or sandpaper, if necessary. For example, I de-flashed and “melted” some sharp edges on my PX-4 frame with files and sandpaper.
If a blem is internal, I only care about function and longevity. I don’t mind taking a file to a part, within reason.
If the lens on a new Aimpoint were scratched, I would consider it a functional problem. Body of it, not so much. I might be concerned that the seller shipped me a used model or one that had been returned, however.
I buy blems or display models on purpose, as available for cost savings.
Heck yeah. Right there with you... as a cost savings measure.
I'm super cheap and I tend to destroy everything I own from overly hard use so I buy used/blem everything if I can. Maybe that's why I'd be so irritated if I paid brand new pricing and got a blem barrel. If I had paid blem price I would stuff it in my gun and rock on without skipping a beat.
I gig a 2016 Gibson Les Paul weekly and I bought it used for $1500 (MSRP is like $2700). It had scratches and wear which is fine since now looks like Jimmy Page's beater. Doesn't bother me. But, again, I'd have been pissed if I had paid fresh and clean new price for it and it wasn't minty.
Honestly, I only responded to this thread because I own a Bar Sto barrel and another member shot me a text and asked for me to check it out.
I have nothing to contribute to the overwhelming majority of threads on gun forums. I’m nowhere near as tech savvy as a lot of guys, and I’m also not excited by gun stuff.
I’d rather read a JSOM.
I hear ya. I don't go to gun shows at all anymore and post mostly in the GD forum now. I used to devour all of the cop magazines and catalogs at work. After 26 years I am not as interred. It is good to check in and see what's going on. I still have plenty to learn. I want the G19X and wouldn't have known about it with out seeing it mentioned here.
I spent lots of time in the NFA section when I first joined. I come here withost of my gun questions.
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I’d rather read a JSOM.
Good stuff in there, for sure.
OMG so much mess talk
http://i25.tinypic.com/2yvwhoh.jpg
JMHO
YMMV
That Land Rover looks like a Mary-Kay Apocalypse wagon.
militarymoron
01-19-18, 11:28
I can count on 0 fingers the one-night stands, hand-shandies, and blowies I've gotten from hot chicks for having an "aesthetically-pleasant" bullet hose.
That's because only good, decent women that are worth settling down with appreciate that sort of thing :)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?203624-Audrey-s-quot-Purple-Crusader-quot
Outlander Systems
01-19-18, 11:38
LOL!
Well played, Sir.
That's because only good, decent women that are worth settling down with appreciate that sort of thing :)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?203624-Audrey-s-quot-Purple-Crusader-quot
OK, I kinda been following this, wasn't sure about whether to post or not. I can see both sides of this pretty easily. I like build and shoot guns, I've been working as a gunsmith full time for awhile, and off and on for awhile longer, as was a machinist for 20+ yrs.
So, the barrel. The little cutout for the head of the recoil spring guide is off center. It may or may not make a difference, I don't have it, I cannot try it. It's only purpose is to control the spring so you don't have to hold it all together while assembling the pistol. However, depending on exactly how much the guide moves off that step when assembled, it could create a rub spot, and the plastic guide will lose.
I'd want it straight.
Why didn't the buyer fit and try the barrel?
Because the moment he takes a file to it, a warranty return is off the table. This seems totally missed here.
They "fix" it. There are two options. Weld up the area and re-cut it, killing the heat treatment right near the chamber, or set it up and simply cut it correctly. Looks like option #2. Now, since metal was removed off to one side in the initial cut, there is no putting it back without the welder, and all that entails. It's gonna look like that. The little bit of radius in the back corner could signify a dull cutter, or they could all look like that. It's only issue is that it's a stretched out radius instead of a truly circular one. Not as pretty (symmetrical), but now fully functional.
The burr? Well, yeah, that should've been removed, that was plain sloppy, especially for a customer already upset, you know it's getting scrutinized when it gets back. Ideally, the guy should've been sent another one, fix that one and put it back in the bin. Maybe go over it, make sure there isn't anything else wrong on it.
As far as "it's getting fitted, filed on anyways". Not in that spot, it isn't. That should be done.
Did the customer screw up? Maybe, maybe not. Calling in one week was a bit early, as I'm sure the call tag wasn't for overnight shipping. Ok, he wasn't happy with the fix, and that's his prerogative. He can demand a replacement. I wasn't in one the phone convo, so idk about that.
Yes, technically they fixed it. But, they did not satisfy the customer. This, we know.
Maybe the customer was demanding, but then, that is the nature of business with the public, some are pretty easy to make happy, some require a bit more.
Just my 02.
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This is essentially the same back and forth discussion that was had when people started posting photos of their brand new Colt 6920s coming out of the box all scratched up and with incomplete roll marks.
The "shooters" said it doesn't matter and you should ignore cosmetic imperfections since they don't affect performance. The other half of buyers expressed dissatisfaction with their brand new Colt rifle looking junky.
I don't know anything about the manufacturing and QC process of firearms and parts. Is there two different QC inspection lines on these things? Like everything on the inside that you can't see MUST be 100% up to spec because it matters, but the outside doesn't have to pass QC since it's only aesthetics?
That aside, where is the line of tolerance for the "shooters?" If a brand new Aimpoint micro showed up with the finish all scratched up and the lettering on the dial only half done would it matter, or would that be considered bitching about the dumbest shit?
With some of the folks on here it depends on whether they are buying or selling and which side of the bed they got up on.
I find it humorous.
But back to the Bar-Sto barrel - that 270.00 you pay for that barrel also factors in the fact that Bar-Sto barrels have been used to win just about everything in pistol shooting.
I think it would have nice had it looked nicer, but obviously Irv Stone III feels function over aesthetics.
They "fix" it. There are two options. Weld up the area and re-cut it, killing the heat treatment right near the chamber, or set it up and simply cut it correctly. Looks like option #2. Now, since metal was removed off to one side in the initial cut, there is no putting it back without the welder, and all that entails. It's gonna look like that. The little bit of radius in the back corner could signify a dull cutter, or they could all look like that. It's only issue is that it's a stretched out radius instead of a truly circular one. Not as pretty (symmetrical), but now fully functional.
Thanks for that perspective.
Could've been worse. Like the guy we had a liberty mystic for. It was still in nfa jail, but he came in, wanted to know if he could have a quick conjugal. We had a place out back I used for testing, no real range, but sure, why not. I was looking up something on the computer, so he and the shop owner go out back.
Comes back a few minutes later, guy looks like somebody just shot his dog.
Owner drops the suppressor on the counter in front of me, it rattles. The mystic is a monocore.
The threads on the barrel were real pretty.
Not straight, but pretty.
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For me, if a blem is external, and does not affect usage, I don’t care. My rifles get Krylon, anyway, generally. My pistols will get holster wear, and might see files or sandpaper, if necessary. For example, I de-flashed and “melted” some sharp edges on my PX-4 frame with files and sandpaper.
If a blem is internal, I only care about function and longevity. I don’t mind taking a file to a part, within reason.
If the lens on a new Aimpoint were scratched, I would consider it a functional problem. Body of it, not so much. I might be concerned that the seller shipped me a used model or one that had been returned, however.
I buy blems or display models on purpose, as available for cost savings.
So how much is a first quality Bar-Sto sans blems?
Could've been worse. Like the guy we had a liberty mystic for. It was still in nfa jail, but he came in, wanted to know if he could have a quick conjugal. We had a place out back I used for testing, no real range, but sure, why not. I was looking up something on the computer, so he and the shop owner go out back.
Comes back a few minutes later, guy looks like somebody just shot his dog.
Owner drops the suppressor on the counter in front of me, it rattles. The mystic is a monocore.
The threads on the barrel were real pretty.
Not straight, but pretty.
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maybe a stray weld bead? or expensive baby rattle
So how much is a first quality Bar-Sto sans blems?
$270. As far as I’m concerned that blem is invisible when assembled, and until someone shoots it, I imagine it will work fine, thus would not bother me.
$270. As far as I’m concerned that blem is invisible when assembled, and until someone shoots it, I imagine it will work fine, thus would not bother me.
And if he found out your imagining didn't become reality then it is his baby.
http://www.barsto.com/FAQs.cfm?C1=1769
And yes, I know, it is a barrel that requires fitting, but as others have pointed out some of the areas at issue aren't supposed to be getting modified.
EzGoingKev
01-19-18, 16:42
I consider an aftermarket barrel to be a precision machined part. The OP's pics do not show a precision machined part IMO.
When I pay a premium I expect premium function and service. Also, expecting perfection 100% of the time will leave you disappointed whether it be with guns, people, cops etc.
KKM got a better quality control and customer service.
I bought one of their 40-9mm conversion barrels and the quality was quite good! :)
When I pay a premium I expect premium function and service. Also, expecting perfection 100% of the time will leave you disappointed whether it be with guns, people, cops etc.
Slackers and con artists ranging from manufacturers to politicians appreciate the latter. It really takes the pressure off of them and gives them an advantage over their betters.
Deburring adds time and money to machining operations so I am sure companies would love getting consumers to take care of this step without lowering prices accordingly.
Slackers and con artists ranging from manufacturers to politicians appreciate the latter. It really takes the pressure off of them and gives them an advantage over their betters.
Deburring adds time and money to machining operations so I am sure companies would love getting consumers to take care of this step without lowering prices accordingly.
I agree and found this my Kahr PM9, many internal burrs. I also find a lot people bitching about nothing or something significant that is statistically insignificant and then they go on the internet and try to ruin a company's reputation without addressing it with the manufacturer first. My statement here isn't address the OPs thread, just a general observation.
maybe a stray weld bead? or expensive baby rattleExpensive baby rattle.
Since it's a monocore, only two parts, and no welds. The core, titanium, and a sleeve tube, which I believe was steel, which slipped over the core and threaded to keep it in place. The rear is threaded for an adapter, different ones for different applications.
Anyway, barrel threads were not parallel to the bore, so it drifted off center at an angle, distance off center increasing as it went.
Bullets fired had gone tearing down through about the last third/half of the core, leaving some copper shards and pieces of broken core in it.
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I've used these barrels for years and never had a bad one. They used to be "the" 1911 barrel of choice by almost all custom smiths couple decades ago. I have them on two Sig 9mm that I shoot the crap out of and with the exception of the conversion 40 to 9mm barrel being a little finicky with reloads, tight chamber, there are no problems with them. I am surprised that Irv would treat anyone like that without reason. Guess bad days happen to anyone, I don't understand why he didn't just give you a total refund. Weird. Good luck with your claim to AMEX.
Ed
I would be shocked for $270 (the gun costs $500 and somehow Glock OEM barrels find time to not look like that? Maybe they’re not serious duty weapons).
Precision means executed well at $270 add $30 and polish the barrel.
If they can’t afford the machine time to clean it up for that price can they afford to cut the rifling correctly? What does the chamber look like? Or muzzle crown?
I’d not shoot it because if it left the factory looking bad then I doubt they’ll execute well on fixing it.
That’s just my opinion. I had a defect on an Arsenal SGL21; that Arsenal eventually remedied. I didn’t want to start shooting it until it was repaired because they might pull something about the gun being used. They almost voided my warranty for putting a different grip on the gun. I had to restore it to factory condition to be repaired.
God Bless,
Brandon
sidewaysil80
01-21-18, 16:50
I'd be pissed. I don't care if "it works just fine" or not. If I pay a premium for a product, I want a premium product in every facet. Half-assed machining marks are just that, half assed and indicative of their attitude. This is not the same as a $600 Colt with minor finish blemishes, this is a barrel that costs half of what the gun is worth with lazy/shody machining.
noonesshowmonkey
01-21-18, 18:28
11 pages of this nonsense and we still haven't seen the OP write about fitting the barrel or shooting it.
11 pages of this nonsense and we still haven't seen the OP write about fitting the barrel or shooting it.
Shhh, don't bring that logic in here...
11 pages of this nonsense and we still haven't seen the OP write about fitting the barrel or shooting it.
As been previously stated, per Bar-Sto’s policy they will not accept a return for a fired barrel.
Help me out, as I am not versed in the finer details of custom fit parts. I'm not trying to be smart, I just really don't get it.
If the OP is supposes to fit the barrel to his gun before he complains, and fitting the barrel to the gun voids the warranty, what recourse does a consumer have if the part doesn't work/function/fit etc?
If you can't complain and return it before you fit it...and you can't return it after you fit it... doesn't that seem like a conundrum in the making?
Twelve pages, all I got to say is:
'Bar-Sto Precision makes hoss accurate barrels, not show ponies.'
A refund check from Bar-Sto for the full amount arrived in the mail today. Other than the refund invoice there was no correspondence or label regarding return of the barrel, so I am returning at my expense. I also cancelled the AMEX dispute.
Well despite a slight snag you got a refund.
Bar Sto "made it right". Maybe you just had a rough go. They still have a good rep.
I agree it could have been a cleaner fit but still....would not dissuade me from getting a barrel from them
I’m glad you got your closure. What are your plans moving forward, KKM, stock, other?
noonesshowmonkey
01-23-18, 03:53
I’m glad you got your closure. What are your plans moving forward, KKM, stock, other?
But would you trust your LIFE to a KKM barrel?!
I wonder if that barrel will be fit and fired...
But what if there's no accuracy gain from the KKM over a standard barrel?! WHO DOES HE TURN TO THEN?!?! He already burned the bridge with THE precision pistol barrel manufacturer!
This whole thread has me re-examining a great many closely held beliefs...
This was my second Bar-Sto barrel. The first, purchased for another Glock, dropped in and required no fitting. Fit and finish were much better, but not a show pony (Ha!). I perceived a definite improvement in grouping, no scientific test. So first barrel was a positive experience. For now, I am just going to use the stock barrel for the Glock I tried to purchase this most recent barrel for.
hopetonbrown
01-29-18, 00:11
I perceived a definite improvement in grouping, no scientific test.
It's super easy to measure accuracy.
Shoot at NRA B8 targets at 25 yards. 10 rounds. If your round impacted within the 7 ring, that's 7 points. 8 ring equals 8 points, etc. Try to score a 90 or above. You got the fancy barrels.
Here's a target from 10-8 Performance which is the same diameter you can print up. The center circle is 10 points.
http://10-8forums.com/targets/10-8bullseye.pdf
Thanks for the target going to use that.
Ed
hopetonbrown
01-29-18, 20:25
Thanks for the target going to use that.
EdGreat, it's a good warm up for every range session. The 90 passing score is what Kyle Defoor was looking for in his class. He frequently posts pics of his own groups on IG.
I'm a little late to this here party . What about Wilson Combat's custom drop in Glock barrels ?
Anybody try one ?
I have 2 of Wilson's Glock barrels. One for my G19 and the other for a G17. Fit and finish is very good! They definitely reduced group sizes at 25 yards. If I were to buy another Glock I'd definitely drop in another Wilson barrel.
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