View Full Version : Shooting in the desert
Living on the southern east coast that is for the most part heavily wooded I often thought about shooting in the desert. This is a sad story. I wouldn't know how to react if I were shooting that day.
"Authorities say an Arizona woman has died after being struck in the chest by a stray bullet while visiting a desert area popular for target shooting"
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/15/arizona-woman-visiting-shooting-area-killed-by-stray-bullet.html
Dumbasses not shooting into a berm, I see it all the time. Pisses me off.
I hate to rush to judge. Could have been a psycho, a tragic accident... or gross negligence.
There's a national grasslands in my area that's a total free-for-all of retard booger-pickers just shooting in every random direction with absolutely no regard for backstops or anyone else's safety. I do my best to avoid going out there for any reason lest I catch a bullet from some retard. I feel sorry for the people that live out there.
No wonder there's so much pressure on the FS to shut this shit down. And then these idiots complain when areas get closed. Yeah, dumbass...You constantly dumped your trash everywhere and posed a grave danger to everyone around you. What'd you think would happen?
Rule #4: Be aware of your target and what is beyond it.
I make my kids, even my 23 year old, recite the four rules of gun safety before every range session.
I hate to rush to judge. Could have been a psycho, a tragic accident... or gross negligence.
I am leaning towards a tragic accident caused by gross negligence. I thought of you when I read the article. I shot the USPSA Nationals in Vegas years ago. The berms were probably 30 feet tall with pretty much nothing for miles behind them. I wondered at the time if there were people behind the berms miles away.
sadly sometimes a lot of idiots doing idiot things in the desert
often making me go I am out of here when some folks come around
sad news
I hate to rush to judge. Could have been a psycho, a tragic accident... or gross negligence.
I vote for dumbasses shooting on a flat plane with no backstop or consideration where their round might go. Wouldn't be the first time I heard "We are in the woods / desert / mountains fer petes sake...who are we going to hit?" Some people really do think their .308 round only goes as far as they can see.
Odds are great that she was shot by someone in her own group, that's usually how these stories end. Poor news reporting when they can't even say if she was just hiking, or part of a group that was shooting.
This happened about 20 minutes from my house. It was a terribly stupid incident and hopefully someone will get nailed. Part of the problem that isn't addressed is how certain agencies and groups have attempted to restrict our shooting areas in AZ. Even though we have lots of open area, a lot of the land cannot be used for shooting.
We have a pretty nice range (General Joe Foss Shooting Complex) that isn't too far from that area as well, but after various management issues and other problems it was taken over by the county and is now only open 2 days a week for 6 hours a day. It's sad.
This happened about 20 minutes from my house. It was a terribly stupid incident and hopefully someone will get nailed. Part of the problem that isn't addressed is how certain agencies and groups have attempted to restrict our shooting areas in AZ. Even though we have lots of open area, a lot of the land cannot be used for shooting.
We have a pretty nice range (General Joe Foss Shooting Complex) that isn't too far from that area as well, but after various management issues and other problems it was taken over by the county and is now only open 2 days a week for 6 hours a day. It's sad.
We had over 2000 shooting ranges back in 2000, now its down to IIRC 600.
Also many ranges have more noise and time restraints due to people / housing creeping on them, then complaining about noise...
So, more people take to sand pits etc, which is not increasing the range safety at all. Yes dumbassery can happen on a proper range as well, but shooting at a location not really meant for it brings its own challenges.
Also now shooting on someones land with their permission, is not really possible anymore if you intend to do it more regularly etc. As they dont want certain areas to come sort of unofficial ranges.
They did introduce a term called "minor shooting range", which can be set up with a note to our central Police authorization. The only problem is that it takes the environmental permit that regular shooting ranges need = tens of thousands of Euros for the studies, range setup to capture bullets etc so they dont have environmental effect.
So in essence a big cut on proper ranges in the last 15+ years and making it more difficult ( impossible ) to shoot on someones land with their permission...
Leaveammoforme
01-18-18, 02:58
Odds are great that she was shot by someone in her own group, that's usually how these stories end. Poor news reporting when they can't even say if she was just hiking, or part of a group that was shooting.
That was my first thought as well. I had read that the group heard "the" shots. While it's still unknown if the shots heard were "the" shots, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that they were.
If this is the case, whoever fired the shots was close to the group. They wouldn't have heard some random round cooking across the desert. Joe Blow Public hears shots as "Bang, bang" not "Zip, pop".
I live in the North East, I wouldn't even know where to go to shoot on public lands.
We shoot at gun ranges an on private property. I never ever had a problem finding multiple places to go shoot growing up. Now I just shoot on my own land.
Sadly most gun owners are total retards. We all know this and its why we are here and not TOS. Personally while I'm big on gun rights I don't have a real issue with shooting on public lands being restricted because to mall ninja is bump firing out in the the great wide open. A good fix would be designated areas on public lands with back stops.
I am leaning towards a tragic accident caused by gross negligence. I thought of you when I read the article. I shot the USPSA Nationals in Vegas years ago. The berms were probably 30 feet tall with pretty much nothing for miles behind them. I wondered at the time if there were people behind the berms miles away.
We're very fortunate to have access to private land right now. I dread the though of having to shoot at spots like the one where this incident took place.
From the reports I have now heard, I may be wrong in my assessment.
IG- I can not believe that nice range is only open 12 hrs a week. That is criminal. I drove by it a few years ago when visiting my parents in Surprise. Looked like a great place.
RVTMaverick
01-19-18, 12:59
Hey Tuukka,
I had NO Idea Shooting was so Big in Finland? But why such a Huge cut down, from 2000 to 600? Dam... can't be from all housing development, is it?
FWIW: My old boss while I was living in Sweden is Finnish.. Jyrki, Great guy, Dude is Funny as all get out and a great Story teller!
The Job I had while living in Sweden, They had a Shooting club, they even had a Shooting Range under the Building I worked at, although it's in a very small section... Thinking back now, the building IS SO HUGE, it could have been made into an incredible Rifle range under the building too.... Man,.. what it Could have been!
Peace Jeff
We had over 2000 shooting ranges back in 2000, now its down to IIRC 600.
Also many ranges have more noise and time restraints due to people / housing creeping on them, then complaining about noise...
So, more people take to sand pits etc, which is not increasing the range safety at all. Yes dumbassery can happen on a proper range as well, but shooting at a location not really meant for it brings its own challenges.
Also now shooting on someones land with their permission, is not really possible anymore if you intend to do it more regularly etc. As they dont want certain areas to come sort of unofficial ranges.
They did introduce a term called "minor shooting range", which can be set up with a note to our central Police authorization. The only problem is that it takes the environmental permit that regular shooting ranges need = tens of thousands of Euros for the studies, range setup to capture bullets etc so they dont have environmental effect.
So in essence a big cut on proper ranges in the last 15+ years and making it more difficult ( impossible ) to shoot on someones land with their permission...
It makes me sick and it's total shitshow incompetence. I guarantee you that if they hired on some people and charged a reasonable fee that it would be fine. I know some guys tried to book it up for range training events and they made it so difficult that they just sid phuket and went elsewhere.
From the reports I have now heard, I may be wrong in my assessment.
IG- I can not believe that nice range is only open 12 hrs a week. That is criminal. I drove by it a few years ago when visiting my parents in Surprise. Looked like a great place.
RetroRevolver77
01-20-18, 11:52
I used to go to range that was about 50 miles outside the city. It was in the middle of some state forest reserve on 5K acres. The state even built a really nice covered bench range, pistol range, trap shooting area- the works. Things gradually started turning bad about a decade ago, seems the younger shooters were dragging trash out there to shoot at along with unsafe firearms handling. Eventually the state shut it down. My point, in the absence of range officers, you become a range officer yourself. If you see people doing stuff that is unsafe or leaving trash everywhere- then tell them to pick it up, correct them for unsafe firearms handling. Otherwise you will eventually lose access to that range.
Averageman
01-20-18, 16:53
A high school friend of mine was out hiking in the desert with the Cub Scout Troop he belonged to in like fifth grade and out of nowhere he was shot in the head.
He barely lived on the way to the hospital and he didn't attend school again until he was a Sophomore.
He said he always thought it was more than an accident.
I used to go to range that was about 50 miles outside the city. It was in the middle of some state forest reserve on 5K acres. The state even built a really nice covered bench range, pistol range, trap shooting area- the works. Things gradually started turning bad about a decade ago, seems the younger shooters were dragging trash out there to shoot at along with unsafe firearms handling. Eventually the state shut it down. My point, in the absence of range officers, you become a range officer yourself. If you see people doing stuff that is unsafe or leaving trash everywhere- then tell them to pick it up, correct them for unsafe firearms handling. Otherwise you will eventually lose access to that range.
Same problem here. The nearest public range is about an hour from me. It is on a 15k acre state/federal preserve. Paved, decent benches and covered. No range officers though. I don't go there by myself. The last time I went by myself there was an old timer with a 40+/- women. Probably his daughter. She was obviously mentally retarded. The old guy called a cease fire and went downrange to change targets. She was fiddling with magazines and looking through the scope on their 10/22 while he was downrange. I was saddened and shocked at the same time. I know the old guy was trying to spend time with his daughter but he should have taken her downrange with him. Common sense should always prevail. Another day some idiots put 10-12 5 gallon buckets on top of the 100 yard berm and proceeded to do repeated mag dumps with an AK. I reported them to the rangers. It's just a matter of time before they shut it down.
I've lived in AZ for 40+ years and I've done a lot of 'desert shooting'.
I've seen plenty of shit that would curl your hair.
People are fu-cking stupid!
Careless.
Incompetent.
And just plain discourteous.
A sizeable portion are truly criminally negligent.
I no longer shoot in areas with the general population,
and this includes indoor ranges.
God bless my old K10 Chebbie that takes me to places where fools fear to tread.
RVTMaverick
01-23-18, 06:52
I've lived in AZ for 40+ years and I've done a lot of 'desert shooting'.
I've seen plenty of shit that would curl your hair.
People are fu-cking stupid!
Careless.
Incompetent.
And just plain discourteous.
A sizeable portion are truly criminally negligent.
I no longer shoot in areas with the general population,
and this includes indoor ranges.
God bless my old K10 Chebbie that takes me to places where fools fear to tread.
Hey Chuck,
ALL this, Plus the Other replies about how BAD/Dangerous things have gotten.
IMHO: Is from people growing up with No Guidance, No Common Sense and No Respect. Which leads Me to ASK You All... Shouldn't We Have to have some kind of Weapons training, to be able to use a firearm? Both Instructions, Drilling in Knowledge (Written Exam & Hands On!) learning how to even work a firearm?
(I think) We are way passed a point, to which we should have been doing these things.
I mean WHOLEY CRAP!.... I actually have a guy here, who (Approx. 7+ yrs ago now) went out and bought a handgun, so now, he wants to carry concealed(Cool) I tell him about classes they running at My Gun Club, Once a month on Saturdays, cheap too, it's Only like 60 bucks. NOPE, Instead, he gets on the internet, finds some kind of BS class and the next thing you know, he's got His Conceal Carry Permit! ??>>>-----> With NO One to Witness if he had any brains (Respect, Common Sense) at all, as to even knowing anything about firearms!???
Peace Jeff
Hey Chuck,
ALL this, Plus the Other replies about how BAD/Dangerous things have gotten.
IMHO: Is from people growing up with No Guidance, No Common Sense and No Respect. Which leads Me to ASK You All... Shouldn't We Have to have some kind of Weapons training, to be able to use a firearm? Both Instructions, Drilling in Knowledge (Written Exam & Hands On!) learning how to even work a firearm?
(I think) We are way passed a point, to which we should have been doing these things.
I mean WHOLEY CRAP!.... I actually have a guy here, who (Approx. 7+ yrs ago now) went out and bought a handgun, so now, he wants to carry concealed(Cool) I tell him about classes they running at My Gun Club, Once a month on Saturdays, cheap too, it's Only like 60 bucks. NOPE, Instead, he gets on the internet, finds some kind of BS class and the next thing you know, he's got His Conceal Carry Permit! ??>>>-----> With NO One to Witness if he had any brains (Respect, Common Sense) at all, as to even knowing anything about firearms!???
Peace Jeff
sure his training will kick in and call his mother when he shoots himself in the leg :)
that vid while sad makes me shake my head with a grin ?
Hey Chuck,
ALL this, Plus the Other replies about how BAD/Dangerous things have gotten.
IMHO: Is from people growing up with No Guidance, No Common Sense and No Respect. Which leads Me to ASK You All... Shouldn't We Have to have some kind of Weapons training, to be able to use a firearm? Both Instructions, Drilling in Knowledge (Written Exam & Hands On!) learning how to even work a firearm?
(I think) We are way passed a point, to which we should have been doing these things.
I mean WHOLEY CRAP!.... I actually have a guy here, who (Approx. 7+ yrs ago now) went out and bought a handgun, so now, he wants to carry concealed(Cool) I tell him about classes they running at My Gun Club, Once a month on Saturdays, cheap too, it's Only like 60 bucks. NOPE, Instead, he gets on the internet, finds some kind of BS class and the next thing you know, he's got His Conceal Carry Permit! ??>>>-----> With NO One to Witness if he had any brains (Respect, Common Sense) at all, as to even knowing anything about firearms!???
Peace Jeff
The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.. simple as that. Along with that freedom we also get accidental deaths. I will never support mandatory arms education to be able to possess arms.
RVTMaverick
01-24-18, 06:29
I Hear You brother Doug, I'm with You, I just wish there was a way people got Common Sense when buying firearms... Respect?? I don't know man, but when We All hear about things like this, You and I Know Automatically, None of these people,... Even Know the 4 Rules of Firearms safety!
I Think People Should At least Know that, don't you?
The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.. simple as that. Along with that freedom we also get accidental deaths. I will never support mandatory arms education to be able to possess arms.
Deleted due to low knowledge base.
RVTMaverick
01-24-18, 07:22
Hey Andy,
IMHO: There's Nothing out of line about how "long" your reply is... AND I Say GOOD DAM Job on YOU Sir!
WTH is this DIP $H!T even doing sitting/standing/laying down at his Rifle with people down range anyhow? Never mind all the rest, grasping the grip, figure on the trigger... WTH
Again, Thankfully YOU were paying attention, so IF something were to go down, it Sure seems to me, You would have been able to minimize the death count!
Peace Jeff
I shoot a lot at a DNR range about 30 minutes from my house. Exactly the same expirience, but there are also days when the only folks there are solid, safe shooters.
I came close to drawing on a guy at our DNR range. Cease fire was called, and folks downrange, when I looked over to see a guy 2 benches over tucked up to his rifle looking downrange through his scope (hand on the grip/finger on the trigger). I said/shouted something to him while moving to him and putting my left hand on his shoulder. He mumbled something about wanting to check out the rifle about the time I realized that I had unconsciously gripped my pistol (I always carry IWB at the public range) to draw and shoot him. I honestly believed, for just a moment, that he was about to start blasting people downrange. I am sure he will think I overreacted until the day he dies, but WTF was going through that guy's mind?
There was no harm done and I probably should just let it go, but I still question my actions and thinking. I don't run around hoping for a reason to shoot someone and certainly had not run through a scenario like that in my mind.
Sorry for the long post.
Andy
There was no harm done and I probably should just let it go, but I still question my actions and thinking.
If I were down range changing targets, I'd GREATLY appreciate your vigilance.
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