View Full Version : 13.7" Midlength?
My google-fu has turned up a couple answer to my question but not all. So i'm looking to build a new upper and for some reason I've been having an itch for a 13.7" setup. A couple companies have been noted to making a 13.7" carbine length barrel, but all I could turn up with a 13.7" midlength was Noveske. Now I do know that this isn't a very common barrel length but I wanted to give it a shot. My main question is there enough difference between a carbine length and midlength in this configuration to matter? I was wanting to give the softer recoiling midlength a go. My only option for a midlength is the Noveske(which is a bit spendy) or getting a 14.5 cut down. It will probably be suppressed most of the time but my main purpose for it is to use it whenever I don't feel like bringing my suppressor out. Anybody have any experience with one?
dylank0723
01-22-18, 23:08
Personal experience no, but the owner of TRex Arms uses a 13.7 scar, 13.7 mcx, and a 13.7 BCM mid length and has no issues
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vicious_cb
01-22-18, 23:43
My google-fu has turned up a couple answer to my question but not all. So i'm looking to build a new upper and for some reason I've been having an itch for a 13.7" setup. A couple companies have been noted to making a 13.7" carbine length barrel, but all I could turn up with a 13.7" midlength was Noveske. Now I do know that this isn't a very common barrel length but I wanted to give it a shot. My main question is there enough difference between a carbine length and midlength in this configuration to matter? I was wanting to give the softer recoiling midlength a go. My only option for a midlength is the Noveske(which is a bit spendy) or getting a 14.5 cut down. It will probably be suppressed most of the time but my main purpose for it is to use it whenever I don't feel like bringing my suppressor out. Anybody have any experience with one?
Theres a reason why the noveske comes with a perm attached flaming pig and it not just to redirect blast...even suppressed, Im not sure its enough to mimic the backpressure of a flaming pig to make a 13.7 mid reliable.
Can one really tell the difference between 13.7" and 14.5" without some sort of device that measures recoil intensity and/or a tape measure? Presumably there would be a small velocity difference but would it be enough to statistically matter?
I'm pretty new to AR's and while I know a jump from say 16" to 20" is significant is a 3/4" change also significant?
I have a 13.7 mid Noveske barrel. I wish I knew the gas port size.
It has been 100% reliable unsuppressed (not that that info is surprising to anyone) using Federal XM193 5.56 NATO 55gr ammo.
Suppressed I have had weird issues (none of which I think are the barrel, or gas systems fault) one issue was failures to extract when suppressed, the other issue was after that failure to extract, the bolt carrier would try to pickup another round and feed it into the previously spent casing still in the chamber. This is only using Federal XM193 5.56 NATO 55gr ammo suppressed, and happened at least once per magazine. I have also blown out 2 primers on the same ammo in the course of maybe 400rnds.
I have since added a BCM extractor upgrade with the black buffer, and the O-ring left in. I have also acquired a H3 buffer to replace the H2 buffer currently in the rifle. (using a springco blue spring) On top of that, I have picked up some quality Hornady 5.56 NATO 62gr "Black" ammo to conduct my test/tune with.
I am hoping that the extractor upgrade fixes the failure to extract issue (which may have really been my only issue), but a bunch of guys on these forums recommended a H3 buffer for my setup, so I picked one up to throw in it and see how well everything works together suppressed/unsuppressed. The real test will be if it can reliable run on Federal XM193...I have a few thousand rounds of it.
I thought weapon outfitters offered a 13.7" mid length barrel?
dylank0723
01-23-18, 13:14
I have a 13.7 mid Noveske barrel. I wish I knew the gas port size.
It has been 100% reliable unsuppressed (not that that info is surprising to anyone) using Federal XM193 5.56 NATO 55gr ammo.
Suppressed I have had weird issues (none of which I think are the barrel, or gas systems fault) one issue was failures to extract when suppressed, the other issue was after that failure to extract, the bolt carrier would try to pickup another round and feed it into the previously spent casing still in the chamber. This is only using Federal XM193 5.56 NATO 55gr ammo suppressed, and happened at least once per magazine. I have also blown out 2 primers on the same ammo in the course of maybe 400rnds.
I have since added a BCM extractor upgrade with the black buffer, and the O-ring left in. I have also acquired a H3 buffer to replace the H2 buffer currently in the rifle. (using a springco blue spring) On top of that, I have picked up some quality Hornady 5.56 NATO 62gr "Black" ammo to conduct my test/tune with.
I am hoping that the extractor upgrade fixes the failure to extract issue (which may have really been my only issue), but a bunch of guys on these forums recommended a H3 buffer for my setup, so I picked one up to throw in it and see how well everything works together suppressed/unsuppressed. The real test will be if it can reliable run on Federal XM193...I have a few thousand rounds of it.
I thought weapon outfitters offered a 13.7" mid length barrel?
Out of curiosity, what muzzle device do you use for it to be a 16in
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Out of curiosity, what muzzle device do you use for it to be a 16in
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Its an SBR.
But you can pin B.E. Meyers flash hider to make it 16.1" OAL....there might be other muzzle devices long enough to pin.
Theres a reason why the noveske comes with a perm attached flaming pig and it not just to redirect blast...even suppressed, Im not sure its enough to mimic the backpressure of a flaming pig to make a 13.7 mid reliable.
One other reason is that a pinned KX5 brings the 13.7" barrel up to 16".
My google-fu has turned up a couple answer to my question but not all. So i'm looking to build a new upper and for some reason I've been having an itch for a 13.7" setup. A couple companies have been noted to making a 13.7" carbine length barrel, but all I could turn up with a 13.7" midlength was Noveske. Now I do know that this isn't a very common barrel length but I wanted to give it a shot. My main question is there enough difference between a carbine length and midlength in this configuration to matter? I was wanting to give the softer recoiling midlength a go. My only option for a midlength is the Noveske(which is a bit spendy) or getting a 14.5 cut down. It will probably be suppressed most of the time but my main purpose for it is to use it whenever I don't feel like bringing my suppressor out. Anybody have any experience with one?
The 13.7 mid is a tiny bit shorter than ideal for normal unsuppressed use, but nothing to really worry about.
There are 12.5" mids out there that reportedly run well.
The 13.7 should actually be great for mixed suppressed use, especially if cut down from a 14.5 or 16" mid with no port modifications.
Personal experience no, but the owner of TRex Arms uses a 13.7 scar, 13.7 mcx, and a 13.7 BCM mid length and has no issues
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I've probably seen 100's of pictures of those and completely forgot about them. Only thing of note is I don't think I've seen a picture of them suppressed.
Can one really tell the difference between 13.7" and 14.5" without some sort of device that measures recoil intensity and/or a tape measure? Presumably there would be a small velocity difference but would it be enough to statistically matter?
I'm pretty new to AR's and while I know a jump from say 16" to 20" is significant is a 3/4" change also significant?
That's the main reason I'm asking. Is it even worth it going with a midlength when I can just stick with a carbine gas system. I threw in the softer recoil part because I wanted to try out a midlength considering I've only had carbine guns. There is a company that does a 12.5" midlength so it MAY be possible that there is a benefit?
I have a 13.7 mid Noveske barrel. I wish I knew the gas port size.
It has been 100% reliable unsuppressed (not that that info is surprising to anyone) using Federal XM193 5.56 NATO 55gr ammo.
Suppressed I have had weird issues (none of which I think are the barrel, or gas systems fault) one issue was failures to extract when suppressed, the other issue was after that failure to extract, the bolt carrier would try to pickup another round and feed it into the previously spent casing still in the chamber. This is only using Federal XM193 5.56 NATO 55gr ammo suppressed, and happened at least once per magazine. I have also blown out 2 primers on the same ammo in the course of maybe 400rnds.
I have since added a BCM extractor upgrade with the black buffer, and the O-ring left in. I have also acquired a H3 buffer to replace the H2 buffer currently in the rifle. (using a springco blue spring) On top of that, I have picked up some quality Hornady 5.56 NATO 62gr "Black" ammo to conduct my test/tune with.
I am hoping that the extractor upgrade fixes the failure to extract issue (which may have really been my only issue), but a bunch of guys on these forums recommended a H3 buffer for my setup, so I picked one up to throw in it and see how well everything works together suppressed/unsuppressed. The real test will be if it can reliable run on Federal XM193...I have a few thousand rounds of it.
I thought weapon outfitters offered a 13.7" mid length barrel?
I know to get everything properly running its all about the gas port size. Man reason for me starting this thread was to find out if this was a finicky setup that I should stay away from. I'm wanting 100% reliability suppressed/unsuppressed. My main training ammo is Wolf Gold with some steel case sprinkled throughout. Weapon Outfitters currently has a Ballistic Advantage 13.7" carbine and the Noveske you have.
I will report back in this thread after I get to test/tune my rifle with the extractor upgrade, and H3 buffer install. I was supposed to shoot it this past weekend, but instead the fiancé and mother in law wanted to check out wedding venue's on the day I had planned to go shooting.
I have a feeling it will run reliably suppressed and non suppressed. (it was very very close, with an H2 buffer, and a springco blue shooting federal xm193)
Next time I decide to unpin my gas block, I will measure the gas port size. I would love to know what it is.
Maybe give Noveske a call and see if they will share that info? I do not see this as a finicky setup at all. I never once experienced a malfunction with this setup unsuppressed.
turnburglar
01-23-18, 21:03
after going from a 16" mid length to a 14.5 mind length ...... Id say most users coming back and saying the shorter barrel has less 'recoil' is probably a placebo effect? If anything I noticed recoil go UP when moving to the shorter barrel, but that could be because of a change in MD too.
msnyder0609
01-24-18, 07:27
I just ordered Triarc Sytems 13.7" Track Barrel which is a mid-Length. Hurry up SHOT show and end so I can get my stuff! ...Will report back once I get everything put together. But good to know there's another option on the market.
https://www.triarcsystems.com/rifles/rifle-barrels/triarc-13-7-track-barrel.html
I just ordered Triarc Sytems 13.7" Track Barrel which is a mid-Length. Hurry up SHOT show and end so I can get my stuff! ...Will report back once I get everything put together. But good to know there's another option on the market.
https://www.triarcsystems.com/rifles/rifle-barrels/triarc-13-7-track-barrel.html
Same.
Also, Weapon Outfitters offers the Dead Air flash hider as an option for their 13.7" upper bundle. That's another muzzle device option.
after going from a 16" mid length to a 14.5 mind length ...... Id say most users coming back and saying the shorter barrel has less 'recoil' is probably a placebo effect? If anything I noticed recoil go UP when moving to the shorter barrel, but that could be because of a change in MD too.
my experience is that my 13.7 mid gas/H2 buffer has more felt recoil than my 16" carbine gas/H2 buffer, and my 10.3" carbine gas/H2 buffer. All using XM193, unsuppressed.
The 13.7" rifle is also the lightest and best balanced rifle I own. The 10.3 is the heaviest.
Same.
Also, Weapon Outfitters offers the Dead Air flash hider as an option for their 13.7" upper bundle. That's another muzzle device option.
I believe the Battlecomp 51.0 is long enough to reach 16.1+" as well.
One other reason is that a pinned KX5 brings the 13.7" barrel up to 16".
The 13.7 mid is a tiny bit shorter than ideal for normal unsuppressed use, but nothing to really worry about.
There are 12.5" mids out there that reportedly run well.
The 13.7 should actually be great for mixed suppressed use, especially if cut down from a 14.5 or 16" mid.
Thats what I was going for. Seeing if the carbine vs mid was the way to go for the length I wanted. Is there a simple calculation to figure out what the best gas port would be? Or is it more of a ballpark number?
I believe the Battlecomp 51.0 is long enough to reach 16.1+" as well.
Not unless they are doing something not listed on their webpage. They say 2.39? Typical thread length is .400... 2.39 minus .40 + 1.99 leaving you .31 short of 16" plus the crush washer. A 3rd of an inch would be a hell of a crush washer.
msnyder0609
01-24-18, 16:58
Reaaaaally? Thats intriguing. I am going SBR for this particular build, though my original thought was how sweet a Sandman K would be on a 13.7 upper...That would free up an SBR lower. Hmmmm...
One other reason is that a pinned KX5 brings the 13.7" barrel up to 16".
The 13.7 mid is a tiny bit shorter than ideal for normal unsuppressed use, but nothing to really worry about.
There are 12.5" mids out there that reportedly run well.
The 13.7 should actually be great for mixed suppressed use, especially if cut down from a 14.5 or 16" mid.Wouldn't a 13.7" mid have roughly the same dwell time as a 11.5" carbine, what with the gas port being 2" further out?
Granted, the bullet is going faster there, but still...
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my experience is that my 13.7 mid gas/H2 buffer has more felt recoil than my 16" carbine gas/H2 buffer, and my 10.3" carbine gas/H2 buffer. All using XM193, unsuppressed.
The 13.7" rifle is also the lightest and best balanced rifle I own. The 10.3 is the heaviest.
Interesting. My 10.3 recoil is what I consider to be pretty tame. I know we all laugh when the word recoil comes up but I figured there would be less felt between the two. Considering a 10.3 can be pretty rough. I did spend a long time tinkering with the setup between correct buffer and gas port size.
Reaaaaally? Thats intriguing. I am going SBR for this particular build, though my original thought was how sweet a Sandman K would be on a 13.7 upper...That would free up an SBR lower. Hmmmm...
I’ve been eyeing a reason to get a K. This might just be the ticket. I was originally going to throw it on a sbr lower but this puts me in the same boat as you.
I just ordered Triarc Sytems 13.7" Track Barrel which is a mid-Length. Hurry up SHOT show and end so I can get my stuff! ...Will report back once I get everything put together. But good to know there's another option on the market.
https://www.triarcsystems.com/rifles/rifle-barrels/triarc-13-7-track-barrel.html
Meant to include this in my previous reply, but I went ahead and emailed them to see what they said about the barrel. I’ve heard good things about Triarc.
Wouldn't a 13.7" mid have roughly the same dwell time as a 11.5" carbine, what with the gas port being 2" further out?
Granted, the bullet is going faster there, but still...
Yes, the distance is longer but the velocity is higher, so power time ends up nearly identical.
The gas system is longer, so pressure is lower, of course.
The key to a good gas system configuration is not just matching the power time of some other configuration, but balancing it with the gas system length to create optimal timing while keeping the available gas drive on a workable range.
Yes, the distance is longer but the velocity is higher, so power time ends up nearly identical.
The gas system is longer, so pressure is lower, of course.
The key to a good gas system configuration is not just matching the power time of some other configuration, but balancing it with the gas system length to create optimal timing while keeping the available gas drive on a workable range.
So considering all of that, what would be the optimal gas port size be for my setup? I assume that's what you mean by this correct?
The key to a good gas system configuration is not just matching the power time of some other configuration, but balancing it with the gas system length to create optimal timing while keeping the available gas drive in a workable range.
So considering all of that, what would be the optimal gas port size be for my setup? I assume that's what you mean by this correct?
All that was in reference to selecting a configuration (combination) of gas system length and barrel length before the gas port is "sized".
The gas port size takes the "available gas drive" and scales it down to the actual gas drive.
As for the size,
The 13.7 should actually be great for mixed suppressed use, especially if cut down from a 14.5 or 16" mid with no port modifications.
what would be the best 50/50 mixed use port size for a 13.7" mid gas barrel?
Boba Fett v2
01-30-18, 02:43
This is a Noveske 13.7 middy barrel build. Currently running an A5H2. Nice and smooth. No issues. Will be testing it with a Saker 556 can later this week. Muzzle device is a Dead Air three prong flash hider, which bring the overall length to just over 16" (pictured with a Dead Air pyro mounted of course)
https://imageshack.com/a/img924/396/4yskLr.jpg
This is a Noveske 13.7 middy barrel build. Currently running an A5H2. Nice and smooth. No issues. Will be testing it with a Saker 556 can later this week. Muzzle device is a Dead Air three prong flash hider, which bring the overall length to just over 16" (pictured with a Dead Air pyro mounted of course)
https://imageshack.com/a/img924/396/4yskLr.jpg
Nice! I was wondering if the Pyro would work with the MK8.
This is a Noveske 13.7 middy barrel build. Currently running an A5H2. Nice and smooth. No issues. Will be testing it with a Saker 556 can later this week. Muzzle device is a Dead Air three prong flash hider, which bring the overall length to just over 16" (pictured with a Dead Air pyro mounted of course)
https://imageshack.com/a/img924/396/4yskLr.jpg
my gun ran flawlessly until I added a suppressor. Curious to see what results you get with the A5 setup. also what ammo will you be shooting?
Boba Fett v2
01-30-18, 21:36
my gun ran flawlessly until I added a suppressor. Curious to see what results you get with the A5 setup. also what ammo will you be shooting?
Running Federal XM193 for this test run.
This video demonstrates firing unsuppressed, with the Pyro attached and finally with the Saker 556. The last string did not appear to be a malfunction of the weapon, but a failure of the magazine to lock the bolt back after the last round. ETA2: the rounds are ejecting just forward of the 3 o'clock position when running the can, a little bit over-gassed, so that could've attributed to the bolt not lacking back right there, but again it seemed to run fine in the newer USGI mags. ETA3: Also, as my good friend E-man930 pointed out, the ejection pattern here seems a little erratic, not severe, but perhaps not as optimal as it could be. The spring within the buffer itself (originally an H4, but was converted down to an H2) might be contributing to it. Will continue to fine tune as applicable.
https://youtu.be/IKkatxJUnVE
Used five mags during the test run. Of the five, two magazines failed to lock back after rounds complete, which was an older gen PMAG and a 3rd gen USGI mag. The two mags that worked flawlessly were the latest gen USGI mags (blue followers). One mag was causing a type III malfunction, which was one of the older gen USGI mags. Once that mag was ditched, the rifle ran flawlessly suppressed for the remainder of the session. 120 rounds total were expended. Didn't have a lot of time to run more, but I hope to get back out within a week or so to continue experimenting with different ammo and magazines.
ETA: the fireball from the pyro is insane
msnyder0609
01-31-18, 20:38
I received the Triarc 13.7" Track barrel today. Won't be able to shoot it for a few days, but I wanted to post a bit of info for you guys now that I have it in hand.
It measures exactly 13.75. Trying to be as accurate as possible with calipers (no pin gauges on hand) the port appears to be roughly .077.
In regards to the barrel length. For those considering pinning a Dead Air flash hider, it looks like a spacer would be needed to get to 16.1. 13.75 + 2.70 = 16.45, subtract .60 (right?) for the threads and that puts you at 15.85.
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Boba Fett v2
02-01-18, 02:08
I received the Triarc 13.7" Track barrel today. Won't be able to shoot it for a few days, but I wanted to post a bit of info for you guys now that I have it in hand.
It measures exactly 13.75. Trying to be as accurate as possible with calipers (no pin gauges on hand) the port appears to be roughly .077.
In regards to the barrel length. For those considering pinning a Dead Air flash hider, it looks like a spacer would be needed to get to 16.1. 13.75 + 2.70 = 16.45, subtract .60 (right?) for the threads and that puts you at 15.85.
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I own that one. I've wrongly assumed it was at 16" without confirming the overall length when threaded down. Failing to account for the loss of length when subtracting the length of the threads, I've unintentionally ill informing a few guys as a result of my incomplete math. Excuse me while I go make things right.
I received the Triarc 13.7" Track barrel today. Won't be able to shoot it for a few days, but I wanted to post a bit of info for you guys now that I have it in hand.
It measures exactly 13.75. Trying to be as accurate as possible with calipers (no pin gauges on hand) the port appears to be roughly .077.
That one should be a good shooter.
msnyder0609
02-02-18, 19:08
Had my first outting with 13.7 mid length Track barrel today. I'm sure it's more accurate than I am a shooter. I zero at 50, here's a few 5 round groups (top left and the one circled) with my plinking handloads which are 25gr h335 under a 55gr Hornady FMJ.
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Will report back once I've had a chance to run it unsuppressed to comment on how smooth it shoots. Think I had a little gas leak today. Couldn't get it to cycle unsuppressed with the lightest A5 buffer, and had to continually open up the gas on the Bootleg carrier throughout day to get lockback with the can on. There was a little carbon on the top of the barrel. Swapped gas block to a Geissele and put in a new roll pin. Will see what happens! If that doesn't do it, I'll swap carriers as I'm confident that the Bootleg carrier does bleed a little gas even in the wide open setting. Drop that carrier into any other gun and it makes the gun shoot softer.
Had my first outting with 13.7 mid length Track barrel today. I'm sure it's more accurate than I am a shooter. I zero at 50, here's a few 5 round groups (top left and the one circled) with my plinking handloads which are 25gr h335 under a 55gr Hornady FMJ.
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Will report back once I've had a chance to run it unsuppressed to comment on how smooth it shoots. Think I had a little gas leak today. Couldn't get it to cycle unsuppressed with the lightest A5 buffer, and had to continually open up the gas on the Bootleg carrier throughout day to get lockback with the can on. There was a little carbon on the top of the barrel. Swapped gas block to a Geissele and put in a new roll pin. Will see what happens! If that doesn't do it, I'll swap carriers as I'm confident that the Bootleg carrier does bleed a little gas even in the wide open setting. Drop that carrier into any other gun and it makes the gun shoot softer.
I emailed Triarc about port size and they told me it was a .073". Regardless of that i'm curious how it turns out for you. I'm using the same rail, suppressor, buffer setup, and the Bootleg bolt carrier. So I will be following this closely. Thanks everyone for the help so far.
msnyder0609
02-05-18, 17:18
Alright, I got out with the 13.7 today and here are my findings. I got my gas leak figured out. That was certainly the case. A different gas block fixed the issue.
Now, If running this barrel with the Bootleg suppressed carrier, in its "unsuppressed mode," you will likely need to run full pressure ammo. Using my handloads (25gr h335 under a 55gr hornady), I was getting lockback at the beginning of the day in the unsuppressed setting on the carrier. Once I got another 50 rounds or so down range it started to fail to lock back. This was using the A5H0 buffer and stock Vltor spring. Shooting full pressure Wolf Gold I had no issues with the A5H0 buffer. I shot about 200 rounds of that today.
If you're planning on shooting low pressure ammo, unsuppressed, I would recommend using a standard carrier, or even better, an LMT enhanced carrier. Now I should have tossed a bolt in the BCM carrier I had on hand to see how "something in the middle" would run. I'll do that next time out. But for today, I was achieving bolt lock back with my hand loads using the LMT carrier and a Vltor A5H3 buffer...Interesting right? It's been known that the LMT will help undergassed guns to run. But this also backs up my suspicions that the Bootleg carrier does bleed off a little gas, even in the unsuppressed setting. The contrast between the two is just too drastic for it not to be bleeding a little gas off.
All in all the Track 13.7 is a real smooth shooter. Coupled with the A5 system, it's pretty ridiculous. So far, so good!
Have you had the chance to shoot this barrel anymore? I'm interested in it.
msnyder0609
02-16-18, 17:14
Have you had the chance to shoot this barrel anymore? I'm interested in it.
I haven't had a chance to shoot it much more. I'm actually waiting on a Dead Air flash hider to show up to see if it does indeed bring it to 16. There are a few retailers saying it in fact does, so I wanted to give that a shot. That'd free up an SBR lower for me and give me an excuse to buy a Dead Air can. Otherwise, all I can say is I plan on running the 13.7 with the LMT enhanced carrier, as I can push an A5H3 buffer, even with its small gas port.
Will report back on the flash hider length when I get it.
I haven't had a chance to shoot it much more. I'm actually waiting on a Dead Air flash hider to show up to see if it does indeed bring it to 16. There are a few retailers saying it in fact does, so I wanted to give that a shot. That'd free up an SBR lower for me and give me an excuse to buy a Dead Air can. Otherwise, all I can say is I plan on running the 13.7 with the LMT enhanced carrier, as I can push an A5H3 buffer, even with its small gas port.
Will report back on the flash hider length when I get it.
I'm pretty sure the flash hider by itself isn't long enough. You need a shim set or a spacer like the BEM solid washer.
https://www.weaponoutfitters.com/be-meyers-249f-solid-washer.html
Eta: just realized we already discussed the flash hider in this thread. Following too many 13.7" threads and can't keep track :rolleyes:
msnyder0609
02-17-18, 08:59
I'm pretty sure the flash hider by itself isn't long enough. You need a shim set or a spacer like the BEM solid washer.
https://www.weaponoutfitters.com/be-meyers-249f-solid-washer.html
Eta: just realized we already discussed the flash hider in this thread. Following too many 13.7" threads and can't keep track :rolleyes:
Ya, with my math it didnt add up either with the flash hider being 2.70. Though if its 2.75, with a half inch of threads thats exactly 16. We shall see! Good to know BE makes that washer. Otherwise I was going to get a Griffin Armament over travel stop, same thing, just with a little notch on the bottom.
Came across this in another 13.7" thread:
https://adcofirearms.com/shop/categories/muzzle-devices/kac-spacer/
Do you need to worry about the muzzle device having enough purchase on the barrel threads if its being pinned and welded? Just curious how large of a spacer can be used.
msnyder0609
02-17-18, 10:28
Came across this in another 13.7" thread:
https://adcofirearms.com/shop/categories/muzzle-devices/kac-spacer/
Do you need to worry about the muzzle device having enough purchase on the barrel threads if its being pinned and welded? Just curious how large of a spacer can be used.
That spacer would work too. I've used those to pin standard A2 flash hiders on 14.5's. It's a little overkill for a FH in the 2.7" range.
For those interested, the 3 prong warcomp is the same length as the 249 saker. Looks like it should work with the BEM solid washer.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4610/26502127998_b2f5d08ae0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GnUkkm)
msnyder0609
02-21-18, 13:25
So, the Dead Air flash hider will work. BUT you have to use basically all the provided shims. It comes with a thick one, a bunch of mediums and one very thin. I measured to the bolt face with a plastic rod that measures exactly 16. Using just about all the shims provided, I'm a hair past 16 OAL :)
https://imageshack.com/i/poXBX6XSj
https://imageshack.com/i/pmhdhsHVj
https://imageshack.com/i/pmxm6wOBj
Boba Fett v2
02-21-18, 18:31
That spacer would work too. I've used those to pin standard A2 flash hiders on 14.5's. It's a little overkill for a FH in the 2.7" range.
That's what I will be rolling with.
If you're willing to sacrifice over 2 inches of barrel length and a significant amount of velocity why not just consider say a 11.5" sbr'd gun for example? I'm just curious because you're not really gaining much ballistically compared to a shorty, but you're giving up a decent amount from a full length carbine. IMO it would be better to have a short upper and a full length upper to serve dedicated roles instead of kind of doing each with just one in between. Unless you're just doing it to avoid the NFA, in which case truck on brotha. [emoji869]
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Boba Fett v2
02-22-18, 19:53
Unless you're just doing it to avoid the NFA, in which case truck on brotha. [emoji869]
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^ This. I already have a few SBR'd shorties. This would be deemed a "full length" with the shortest possible barrel length that would allow it when pinned.
To the question about the gas port size, I measured my Noveske 13.7" CL at roughly 0.086" before I assembled it a year or two ago. I run it with an SLR adj gas block so I can't really comment on whether it runs okay in stock form.
Have been super happy running it suppressed (SF RC 1) and unsuppressed with the SLR though.
Serpico1985
02-25-18, 10:31
I have a 13.7 track barrel build with a BE Myers 249F I got from Weapon Outfitters. I confirmed its over 16" when I got it back from them. They timed it with a prong at 12 o'clock. Great folks who do clean work. Anyway, I know the question came up "why go with 13.7" when your almost at 11.5". The answer? You get like 95% of the bennifit of a 11.5 SBR without the tax stamp:
http://i63.tinypic.com/34s2c6t.jpg
11.5" with Silencerco adapter, 13.7"/249F, 16.1"/A2:
http://i64.tinypic.com/2rdul92.jpg
I'm a believer in having multiple guns. If you just had the ability for one AR, I think a strong argument could be made for a 13.7". Velocity loss over a 16"? Who cares? If you need to reach out over 400 yards grab a bigger caliber. Mine currently has a A5H0. Still have to try it with some heavier buffers but even with the H0 recoil isn't bad at all, its a 223 for goodness sakes. Shoots like a carbine 16" with a H2 and a A2 FH.
http://i68.tinypic.com/ezlptu.jpg
3 shots at 100yards prone with bipod and scope:
http://i65.tinypic.com/szz6yu.jpg
I have a 13.7 track barrel build with a BE Myers 249F I got from Weapon Outfitters. I confirmed its over 16" when I got it back from them. They timed it with a prong at 12 o'clock. Great folks who do clean work. Anyway, I know the question came up "why go with 13.7" when your almost at 11.5". The answer? You get like 95% of the bennifit of a 11.5 SBR without the tax stamp:
http://i63.tinypic.com/34s2c6t.jpg
11.5" with Silencerco adapter, 13.7"/249F, 16.1"/A2:
http://i64.tinypic.com/2rdul92.jpg
I'm a believer in having multiple guns. If you just had the ability for one AR, I think a strong argument could be made for a 13.7". Velocity loss over a 16"? Who cares? If you need to reach out over 400 yards grab a bigger caliber. Mine currently has a A5H0. Still have to try it with some heavier buffers but even with the H0 recoil isn't bad at all, its a 223 for goodness sakes. Shoots like a carbine 16" with a H2 and a A2 FH.
http://i68.tinypic.com/ezlptu.jpg
3 shots at 100yards prone with bipod and scope:
http://i65.tinypic.com/szz6yu.jpgI agree, but why not just run 16" barrel with no muzzle device? Its the same length as 13.7/14.5 pinned guns and your 16" are all usable barrel. I think you could make a strong case that most muzzle devices are not needed for a 556 AR, they just look cool.
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Serpico1985
02-25-18, 11:01
I agree, but why not just run 16" barrel with no muzzle device? Its the same length as 13.7/14.5 pinned guns and your 16" are all usable barrel. I think you could make a strong case that most muzzle devices are not needed for a 556 AR, they just look cool.
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Are you being funny/ironic? Can't tell if your serious.
I'm serious. If you want shortest legal overall length why not just do a 16 with no muzzle device. Unless you need a suppressor mount.
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I'm serious. If you want shortest legal overall length why not just do a 16 with no muzzle device. Unless you need a suppressor mount.
Sent from my XT1650 using TapatalkI think most folks would want at least some blast mitigation.
For suppressor users, it's nice to mount the can further back than a 14.5 or 16 would allow.
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Boba Fett v2
02-26-18, 19:30
I'm serious. If you want shortest legal overall length why not just do a 16 with no muzzle device. Unless you need a suppressor mount.
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Hell no.
The ADCO KAC spacer
https://imageshack.com/a/img922/6033/WdQKIS.jpg
eisenbruder
02-24-20, 10:52
The ADCO KAC Spacer
I know this is an old thread, but I’m looking at doing a 13.7 build with the SOLGW Nox. Can you tell me if the Pyro clears the Geissele rail without the ADCO spacer? The Nox should be long enough to reach 16.1” OAL but I’m not sure if a Sandman K will still clear the rail.
Thanks,
-Dan
Boba Fett v2
02-24-20, 11:29
I know this is an old thread, but I’m looking at doing a 13.7 build with the SOLGW Nox. Can you tell me if the Pyro clears the Geissele rail without the ADCO spacer? The Nox should be long enough to reach 16.1” OAL but I’m not sure if a Sandman K will still clear the rail.
Thanks,
-Dan
The Pyro will clear w/o the spacer, but you'll probably still need it because you'd still have to account for some of the length you might lose when you thread on the device. Best to install the Nox and then measure the entire length to be sure you hit 16". If not, you'll need the spacer.
eisenbruder
02-24-20, 11:46
The Pyro will clear w/o the spacer, but you'll probably still need it because you'd still have to account for some of the length you might lose when you thread on the device. Best to install the Nox and then measure the entire length to be sure you hit 16". If not, you'll need the spacer.
Thank you, Sir!
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