View Full Version : 9mm frustrated with Hornady locknload
Using rcbs carbide dies
Using a full resizing/ deprime die
Using once fired brass
All same type 124gr fmj but labeled 38 super
About 20% of rounds won't plunk into the chamber
I've backed off the crimp
Noticed that the bad rounds the projectile are tilted slightly
I'm using the round nose plug
I did use a 115gr blazer to set oal
Get a Lyman type "M" die expander, this will help start the bullets straight in the case.
Seat and crimp in separate operations.
shadowrider
01-24-18, 20:44
Some things to check:
1) Is your shellplate flexing? (Does it need tightened?)
2) Is your press indexing correctly and lining up with the dies?
3) I'd 2nd the M die suggestion but be sure it's not going to bulge the case if you have a case that's pretty full of powder. You may have to grind the end off.
4) Before I went to a 650 I had an issue getting enough flare with the hornday setup. Check to make sure you aren't pushing the case all the way into the square shoulder of the expander and bulging your case. I don't remember what caliber I had to watch that on and it probably doesn't apply but it's something to check.
The lyman M die is a good tip
I took a look at the set up and seems I'm putting too much bell in the casing which causes the bullet to wobble and more likely to seat off center
I reduced the bell to minimum and seems it's now 1 out of 12 rounds that won't plunk 100% and that one plunked about 90%
Normal case mouth flare can allow the bullet to tip when seating. And the type "M" expander expands the case mouth to the point you can start the bullet "straight" with your fingers.
NOTE, the type "M" expander does note flare the case mouth as much as pictured below.
https://www.shootersforum.com/attachments/handloading-procedures-practices/9429d1275152348-starline-brass-bullet-seating-flares-styles-bulge-note-added.gif
Below a better illustration of the type "M" expander, and normally I do not have to flare the case mouth.
https://i.imgur.com/udv9J6k.jpg
Below a Lyman type "M" expander for the .223, you have .003 neck tension and the .226 diameter section allows the bullet to start straight in the case mouth.
https://i.imgur.com/ohIUcpd.png
Thanks I ordered a Lyman m die
Do you have any good pics of the loaded rounds? I've loaded a gazillion rounds of pistol and never owned an M die. I don't think the M die is bad... I've just never used one.
Are the rounds tight going all the way in? Or do they simply stop short? The only chambering problem I've had has been seating depth.
If the bullet is a loose fit in the seater plug it can cause the bullet to tilt when seating.
If crimping and seating in the operation this can also cause problems.
I can see crimping and seating being a problem. That's just a bad idea on face value. I know my blaster 45 and 9 seats somewhat crooked. But it's never created chambering problems.
I can see crimping and seating being a problem. That's just a bad idea on face value. I know my blaster 45 and 9 seats somewhat crooked. But it's never created chambering problems.
I did not know that. Do you think I'll still have issues even when using the M die since the RCBS does the taper and crimp in one die?
I did not know that. Do you think I'll still have issues even when using the M die since the RCBS does the taper and crimp in one die?
I don't know. I've only used Dillon Die sets in pistol. I just don't know how you can tune seating depth AND bell removal (crimp) on one die. I've never tried that die. But I've read about it giving guys problems a few times over the years.
All same type 124gr fmj but labeled 38 super
The bullets are labeled 38 super? Surely not the cases you are using.
In the early days, 38 super used .357/.358 bullets. If these are the (slightly) bigger super bullets, could this be causing casewall bulge?
It's not a big difference, but if you have a tighter chamber, they are jacketed bullets, and accordingly there is bulge in the cases from seating, it could cause your issue.
I shot super in commanders in the 80s before it was cool. Even with super cases, it was hard to find bullets that loaded well because of this issue. At the time the commercial loadings and the reloading recommendations were largely revolver bullets. And most 9mm bullets were round-nose .355. Or some very early jhp.
So it was a challenge until the later half of the 80s when better bullet selection became available.
Just got the Lyman M die in and loaded up 30+ rounds. All plunked 100% except for one that plunked 98%
Thanks for the help :)
loaded up the rest of 100 rounds and 5 rounds total did not plunk 100% but I believe that was before I backed off the M die a bit more
vast improvement over the 20% bad round rate I was getting before - thanks for the help
I don't know. I've only used Dillon Die sets in pistol. I just don't know how you can tune seating depth AND bell removal (crimp) on one die. I've never tried that die. But I've read about it giving guys problems a few times over the years.
The seating depth is tuned with the center of the die plug. The RCBS kit comes with a round nose plug and a flat point plug.
The bell crimp is tuned by the outer shell of the die.
All same type 124gr fmj but labeled 38 super
Did you measure the diameter to make sure they're 0.355" and not 0.356"?
I've backed off the crimp
This statement shows a fundamental misunderstanding of taper crimping. The purpose of a taper crimp is to remove the remaining flare from the belling step. You should turn the taper crimp die down enough to remove the flare and not more. Too little and you'll have some flare remaining which isn't good for feeding. Too much and you're crushing the case. Definitely don't seat and crimp in the same step. You're asking for trouble.
BTW, it sounds to me like your initial problem was simply not flaring the cases enough to begin with. You should be able to start them in by hand (not down in the case, but just enough for the case to put tension on the base of the bullet), invert the case and have them stay put. If they fall out when you do this, then you're not belling the case enough.
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