View Full Version : Dutch Intelligence Service (AIVD) delivering solid proof Russia Hacking US elections
polydeuces
01-25-18, 18:23
AIVD proof of Russia hack (https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/)
Lessee if the Don can call 'fake news' on this.
Interesting what makes headline news overseas doesn't even raise an eyebrow here.
Its only our elections.
Yeah. :rolleyes:
Sorry your girl lost.
I didn't 'Ja, lk accepteer cookies' because I didn't know if it was available in English.
What do they mean by 'hacking' - actually trying to manipulate vote counts, or actions meant to influence voters?
I don't call the latter hacking.
I didn't 'Ja, lk accepteer cookies' because I didn't know if it was available in English.
What do they mean by 'hacking' - actually trying to manipulate vote counts, or actions meant to influence voters?
I don't call the latter hacking.
It isn't.
Averageman
01-25-18, 18:44
AIVD proof of Russia hack (https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/)
Lessee if the Don can call 'fake news' on this.
Interesting what makes headline news overseas doesn't even raise an eyebrow here.
Its only our elections.
Unless.the Russians changed the vote count, this is old news.
Countries trying to influence the results of an election by swaying public opinion is as old a tactic as there is.
BTW, we do the same and sometimes much worse to other Nations.
The radical difference this time is our own intelligence agencies were working against a candidate and later when that candidate won the election, a sitting POTUS.
Unless.the Russians changed the vote count, this is old news.
Countries trying to influence the results of an election by swaying public opinion is as old a tactic as there is.
BTW, we do the same and sometimes much worse to other Nations.
The radical difference this time is our own intelligence agencies were working against a candidate and later when that candidate won the election, a sitting POTUS.
This is what is implied to a dim-witted audience when the dreaded "Russian hacking" is mentioned, and they buy it hook line and sinker. Yet there has never been (to my knowledge) any official accusations of voting machine tampering by the Rooskies. Hell, we have our own Democrats for that!
Yes, the simple-minded hear "Russian hacking" and the first thing that pops into their pea brains is "OMG! The Russians altered votes!" It couldn't be further from the truth.
BoringGuy45
01-25-18, 19:24
Unless.the Russians changed the vote count, this is old news.
Countries trying to influence the results of an election by swaying public opinion is as old a tactic as there is.
BTW, we do the same and sometimes much worse to other Nations.
The radical difference this time is our own intelligence agencies were working against a candidate and later when that candidate won the election, a sitting POTUS.
That was the M.O. of the U.S. government during the Cold War: If the wrong person won an election in some banana republic, drop the CIA or Green Berets in and start a coup.
I don't get what the end game with the whole Russia thing is. Do they think it's going to result in a reversal of the election?
Dist. Expert 26
01-25-18, 19:28
AIVD proof of Russia hack (https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/)
Lessee if the Don can call 'fake news' on this.
Interesting what makes headline news overseas doesn't even raise an eyebrow here.
Its only our elections.
Ermygawd! Some foreign news agency I've never heard of said the Russians hacked our election! We should have a total do-over!
Yes. Of course.
The Dutch shall be Trumps totally undoing. Yep. Mmhmm.
I bet the FBI will spin his ass outta the Oval Office like a top.
I hear they are working in shifts.
...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180126/48d16bca5c1a7a365a779d160179431e.jpg
Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
I have had encounters with both SÄPO (Swedish Secret Police) and Dutch AVID. The Swedes have a more ruthless operation than the Dutch, but that's for a different discussion.
An article for your edification on AVID from zdnet.com:
Dutch intelligence is a joke - just not the way you think
When the Netherlands' intelligence agency took to Twitter to answer questions from Dutch citizens, hilarity really did ensue.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/dutch-intelligence-is-a-joke-just-not-the-way-you-think/
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-25-18, 20:19
ik donthq thynkey trhyumpq iks gointgs to be to scared of these dutch cookies, ja?
Hacking the DNC is not hacking the election. Hacking the DNC is hacking the DNC.
Spamboting Facebook is not hacking the election. Spamboting Facebook is spamboting Facebook.
Anyone else want to try selling the same old false narrative? :rolleyes:
AIVD proof of Russia hack (https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/)
Lessee if the Don can call 'fake news' on this.
Interesting what makes headline news overseas doesn't even raise an eyebrow here.
Its only our elections.
I’m not certain what this has to do with DJT. The elections and build up were between 2014 and November 2016. During that time Obama was on deck and he stated clearly that our election process is 100% secure and there is no credible threat of hacking capable of influencing the vote. Was he lying?
Not that it matters. Supposedly, the hackers exposed accurate information about the candidates and the activities of the DNC. Instead of hurting America, they should be hailed as heroes for stopping a corrupt association from gaining more power in the USA.
The real issue here isn’t that a foreign nation acted EXACTLY like the USA has done, is doing and will continue to do; but rather if the DJT knew or somehow enabled it.
If there is proof that DJT enabled or participated in this activity, aside from random accusations, I’ll gladly toss him under Gitmo and lobby for the max allowed penalty for treason.
I’m not certain what this has to do with DJT. The elections and build up were between 2014 and November 2016. During that time Obama was on deck and he stated clearly that our election process is 100% secure and there is no credible threat of hacking capable of influencing the vote. Was he lying?
Not that it matters. Supposedly, the hackers exposed accurate information about the candidates and the activities of the DNC. Instead of hurting America, they should be hailed as heroes for stopping a corrupt association from gaining more power in the USA.
The real issue here isn’t that a foreign nation acted EXACTLY like the USA has done, is doing and will continue to do; but rather if the DJT knew or somehow enabled it.
If there is proof that DJT enabled or participated in this activity, aside from random accusations, I’ll gladly toss him under Gitmo and lobby for the max allowed penalty for treason.
This is America. If a drug dealer outs a serial killer, we focus on the fact that the drug dealer is a bad person and had no right to turn in a serial killer. Cause you know, priorities are important and stuff.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-25-18, 23:33
F the Dutch, almost as bad as the people from Holland, but not as bad as those bastards from the Netherlands.
You’d think with orange as their favorite color, they’d be more pro Trump.
sundance435
01-26-18, 07:29
...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180126/48d16bca5c1a7a365a779d160179431e.jpg
Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
That's EXACTLY what I thought of when I read the thread title!
Whiskey_Bravo
01-26-18, 08:00
AIVD proof of Russia hack (https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/)
Lessee if the Don can call 'fake news' on this.
Interesting what makes headline news overseas doesn't even raise an eyebrow here.
Its only our elections.
Oh boy oh boy oh boy. Does this mean Hillary gets to be president now?
Outlander Systems
01-26-18, 08:12
It's over for Trump.
We c-can't let him get his hands on the n-nuclear button, r-right g-guys?
It's her turn!
The basic premise of Trump colluding with Russia is false. He is the last person Putin, and the boys wanted in power. Russia gets a large amount of Revenue from fossil fuel ENERGY. One of Trump's top campaign promise, and current U.S. policy is to maximize U.S. domestic energy resources mostly oil, natural gas, and coal. This can only add to the worldwide supply, and keep prices stable. This is NOT what the Russians want. They want higher, and higher energy prices to maximize revenue. Energy is how a lot of Russians got rich, and provides a lot of revenue to the Russian government.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-26-18, 09:00
http://www.zdnet.com/article/dutch-spies-tipped-off-nsa-that-russia-was-hacking-the-democrats-new-reports-claim/
A version that doesn't make you eat Dutch cookies.
How exactly were the Russians on Trump's side when they were spreading rumors through Steele about him. The greatest lie that the DEM/MSM/Deep-state about the whole Russia stuff. Russia jacked with our election in a 360 degree, non directional attack.
The basic premise of Trump colluding with Russia is false. He is the last person Putin, and the boys wanted in power. Russia gets a large amount of Revenue from fossil fuel ENERGY. One of Trump's top campaign promise, and current U.S. policy is to maximize U.S. domestic energy resources mostly oil, natural gas, and coal. This can only add to the worldwide supply, and keep prices stable. This is NOT what the Russians want. They want higher, and higher energy prices to maximize revenue. Energy is how a lot of Russians got rich, and provides a lot of revenue to the Russian government.
But Hillary would've continued backing the Assad overthrow play, which they mistakenly believed would allow them to effect a natural gas pipeline from the southern Arabian peninsula to Europe, effectively gutting Gazprom's (Putin's) stranglehold on the European market. Trump didn't back that play, which is of significant benefit to Russia.
That still doesn't mean conspiracy or collusion. More of a varying alignment of national interests that intersect in Syria.
I've been telling people since the beginning to stop saying they "hacked" the elections. They didn't, and some folks will argue or ignore the truth of the matter over semantics. What the Russians did do was was use a information/misinformation campaign order to exploit our divisions and influence people's political opinions and maybe their votes. How effective were they? I don't know that it can be measured. But I'm bothered more by the fact that some supposedly flag waving, red blooded, conservatives seem to be willing to let it slide if it means that we get a "win". In fact, it chaps my hide quite a bit. And I know we're guilty of doing the same and probably worse, but I don't like being a sucker.
I'd rather have Hillary than know that the GOP only won with the "help" of a foreign adversary. It undermines the shit out of our democratic system and it makes me sick to think that we could be played like that. But hey, don't mind me. I just love my country more than I love my (sometimes estranged) party.
Oh boy oh boy oh boy. Does this mean Hillary gets to be president now?
Yes, it does.
I've been telling people since the beginning to stop saying they "hacked" the elections. They didn't, and some folks will argue or ignore the truth of the matter over semantics. What the Russians did do was was use a information/misinformation campaign order to exploit our divisions and influence people's political opinions and maybe their votes. How effective were they? I don't know that it can be measured. But I'm bothered more by the fact that some supposedly flag waving, red blooded, conservatives seem to be willing to let it slide if it means that we get a "win". In fact, it chaps my hide quite a bit. And I know we're guilty of doing the same and probably worse, but I don't like being a sucker.
I'd rather have Hillary than know that the GOP only won with the "help" of a foreign adversary. It undermines the shit out of our democratic system and it makes me sick to think that we could be played like that. But hey, don't mind me. I just love my country more than I love my (sometimes estranged) party.
Save your tears. That bitch lost the election all on her own. The Russians didn't influence shit.
I've been telling people since the beginning to stop saying they "hacked" the elections. They didn't, and some folks will argue or ignore the truth of the matter over semantics. What the Russians did do was was use a information/misinformation campaign order to exploit our divisions and influence people's political opinions and maybe their votes. How effective were they? I don't know that it can be measured. But I'm bothered more by the fact that some supposedly flag waving, red blooded, conservatives seem to be willing to let it slide if it means that we get a "win". In fact, it chaps my hide quite a bit. And I know we're guilty of doing the same and probably worse, but I don't like being a sucker.
I'd rather have Hillary than know that the GOP only won with the "help" of a foreign adversary. It undermines the shit out of our democratic system and it makes me sick to think that we could be played like that. But hey, don't mind me. I just love my country more than I love my (sometimes estranged) party.
I believe blame is proportional in this particular case. If Hillary lost to Trump solely because a foreign intel op influenced the election, I'd feel the same as you. Hillary largely lost because she's out of touch with America, deeply arrogant, utterly corrupt and got caught putting her own fat ass on the election scales. The Dems were told by the Obama administration they got hacked. The Dems elected to keep it quiet specifically because they were playing dirty.
We can quibble on the exact figures, but I'd put it close to 90% that Team Hillary cost Team Hillary the election, and 10% all other factors, including Russia.
All you have is Clapper's "the NSA doesn't spy on Americans" claim it was designed to help Trump.
All you have is Clapper's "the NSA doesn't spy on Americans" claim it was designed to help Trump.
There aren't even words in the English language to describe Clapper. He's just awful in every way.
All you have is Clapper's "the NSA doesn't spy on Americans" claim it was designed to help Trump.
There aren't even words in the English language to describe Clapper. He's just awful in every way.
I believe blame is proportional in this particular case. If Hillary lost to Trump solely because a foreign intel op influenced the election, I'd feel the same as you. Hillary largely lost because she's out of touch with America, deeply arrogant, utterly corrupt and got caught putting her own fat ass on the election scales. The Dems were told by the Obama administration they got hacked. The Dems elected to keep it quiet specifically because they were playing dirty.
We can quibble on the exact figures, but I'd put it close to 90% that Team Hillary cost Team Hillary the election, and 10% all other factors, including Russia.
No point in quibbling, we'll never know. And that ****s with me... I have little doubt that they penetrated the Trump campaign. To what extent, I'd love to know. I also want to know what we're doing to counter the threat, but we're an easily distracted bunch. They're only getting better at this stuff, I won't be surprised if Putin tries to swing the midterms towards the Dems just to create even more of a shit-show in Congress.
RetroRevolver77
01-26-18, 11:30
I've been telling people since the beginning to stop saying they "hacked" the elections. They didn't, and some folks will argue or ignore the truth of the matter over semantics. What the Russians did do was was use a information/misinformation campaign order to exploit our divisions and influence people's political opinions and maybe their votes. How effective were they? I don't know that it can be measured. But I'm bothered more by the fact that some supposedly flag waving, red blooded, conservatives seem to be willing to let it slide if it means that we get a "win". In fact, it chaps my hide quite a bit. And I know we're guilty of doing the same and probably worse, but I don't like being a sucker.
I'd rather have Hillary than know that the GOP only won with the "help" of a foreign adversary. It undermines the shit out of our democratic system and it makes me sick to think that we could be played like that. But hey, don't mind me. I just love my country more than I love my (sometimes estranged) party.
Can anyone show proof that the Russians actually did anything? In all honesty, the only thing this election exposed was just how completely corrupt our government is- that's it. Now they are so desperate to cover up this collusion amongst all these agencies that they are trying to set up Trump with some "Russian" connection. They know they are screwed because as the investigations start coming down- it's all being exposed just how rigged our election system actually is.
I'm being honest, it all sounds like bullshit to cover for what surmounted to be a massive collusive effort from the DNC, FBI, DHS, and DOJ to change the outcome of the election. From what I understand the e-mail dumps were from the inside of the DNC itself, now that part might have involved hackers but I think it involved Seth Rich- which is why the DNC had him killed. Even such, those e-mails exposed what they were doing, in some cases- worse stuff than Americans can even stomach. The voting machines that were rigged in several areas by the DNC for fractional voting for Republican votes or actually flipping votes to Democrat- was something exposed during the leaks. I know that at one point the voter registration systems in several states were attacked from what I saw inside from the continental US but DHS then stated it was the "Russians" doing that leading up to the election and I remember several state governors coming forward about this early on. In addition you have FISA warrants being issued by the DOJ on an opposing party candidate at request of the DNC, while the FBI under pressure from the DOJ- suppressed a full investigation of mishandling of classified info by the DNC candidate. The fact the MSN was feeding information to the DNC candidate as well as suppressing information about the RNC due to their political bias. In addition the actual registered voters in several Democrat states where they have same day voter registration can't prove citizenship to an estimate of over 10% of the votes cast within those districts for the DNC. It wasn't the Russians putting meme's up there, with Pepe or stuff that makes Hillary look bad- that was 4 Chan and Reddit. You know what pisses all these people off is that they were outsmarted by a bunch of basement dwellers. So now in desperation, they blame it on some "Russian" connection.
How the election was potentially stolen by the DNC, fractional voting- this is what was exposed during the election.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=88&v=Fob-AGgZn44
7n6
Mo_Zam_Beek
01-26-18, 11:38
Fake News.
Here is the de Volstrant article in Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-russia-cybercrime/dutch-intelligence-agency-spied-on-russian-hacking-group-media-idUSKBN1FE34W
Here are the important facts about the article that tell you it is fake news:
- Sources were unnamed
- Dutch spied on known Russian hacking group between 2014 and 2017 - does not state that they were monitoring the hacking ring during the critical time period
- States that Dutch Intel may have been sent to FBI for current investigation - again meaningless. To say may, means they don’t even have the ability to report that it was reported to the FBI. That Dutch Intel was watching them in 2014, but had nothing specific to report as it relates to the case - means nothing.
It says nothing. However the goal is about generating buzz via algorithms, bots, and the emotionally driven.
The populous has been conditioned / brainwashed.
Steady repetition of argument effectively shouts down facts.
Whiskey_Bravo
01-26-18, 11:50
Steady repetition of argument effectively shouts down facts.
This...
RetroRevolver77
01-26-18, 12:51
Fake News.
Here is the de Volstrant article in Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-russia-cybercrime/dutch-intelligence-agency-spied-on-russian-hacking-group-media-idUSKBN1FE34W
Here are the important facts about the article that tell you it is fake news:
- Sources were unnamed
- Dutch spied on known Russian hacking group between 2014 and 2017 - does not state that they were monitoring the hacking ring during the critical time period
- States that Dutch Intel may have been sent to FBI for current investigation - again meaningless. To say may, means they don’t even have the ability to report that it was reported to the FBI. That Dutch Intel was watching them in 2014, but had nothing specific to report as it relates to the case - means nothing.
It says nothing. However the goal is about generating buzz via algorithms, bots, and the emotionally driven.
The populous has been conditioned / brainwashed.
Steady repetition of argument effectively shouts down facts.
What I love about all this is seeing the mass awakening, so much so that the MSN is losing it's clout entirely. Our country has served for decades as the world's chump, they funnel billions of dollars from our taxpayers to other countries that contribute nothing to our nation. The system became profitable for those who were in charge of distributing that money. So they realized the only way they can control their ability to have access to that money- is to rig our election system which they have done for years. All of that was exposed during the election. Imagine if the Socialists never gained a foothold here, imagine what this country would look like, imagine if we had a Constitutionally limited government. We would truly be the shining city on the hill as Reagan described us.
7n6
dwhitehorne
01-26-18, 14:08
All of this is just trying to water down the facts. Hillary lost the election because she ran a terrible campaign and was not like able. That’s about it. The 9/11 thing on national tv didn’t help either. David
Digging up legit dirt isn't hacking, it's basically what they did to Nixon.
Digging up legit dirt isn't hacking, it's basically what they did to Nixon.
I agree. If it's the truth, well, it's the truth no matter the source.
polydeuces
01-26-18, 19:50
Fake News.
Here is the de VolKstrant article in Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-russia-cybercrime/dutch-intelligence-agency-spied-on-russian-hacking-group-media-idUSKBN1FE34W
Here are the important facts about the article that tell you it is fake news:
- Sources were unnamed (IN CAPS TO CLARIFY WHAT IS MY REPLY)SORRY BUT THEY ARE NAMED.
IT IS AN INVESTIGATIVE PIECE BY NEWSPAPER DE VOLKSKRANT. "SOURCE"..? DE VOLKSKRANT ET AL. THE 'AIVD' (LETS CALL IT THE DUTCH VERSION OF THE CIA/FBI.) AND THEY CONFIRMED.
VERY MUCH SO.
AS DID THE DUTCH GOVERNMENT.
- Dutch spied on known Russian hacking group between 2014 and 2017 - does not state that they were monitoring the hacking ring during the critical time period
YES THEY DID AND EXPLICITLY SO. INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO IMAGES FROM A HACKED CAMERA SHOWING WHO ALL IS INVOLVED ETC.
- States that Dutch Intel may have been sent to FBI for current investigation - again meaningless. To say may, means they don’t even have the ability to report that it was reported to the FBI. That Dutch Intel was watching them in 2014, but had nothing specific to report as it relates to the case - means nothing.
NO REALLY.
THEY DID.
AS IS ACKNOWLEDGED ON RECORD BY NSA (as much as they exist) AND FBI. SEVERAL TIMES ON RECORD. VERBATIM.
It says nothing. However the goal is about generating buzz via algorithms, bots, and the emotionally driven.
NO IT DOES NOT SAY NOTHING.
IT SAYS A (STATE SPONSORED) HACKING GROUP CALLED 'COZY BEAR' HACKED THE WHITE HOUSE, DNC, STATE DEPARTMENT AND WHOMEVER ELSE, POSTED/SPREAD FAKE NEWS ALL IN AN ATTEMPTS TO INFLUENCE AND AS SUCH DISCREDIT/DESTABILIZE U.S. DEMOCRACY. AS WAS TESTIFIED BY HIGH RANKING OFFICIALS. BUT THEY ARE ALL SPREADING FAKE NEWS TOO I AM SURE.
THE GOAL IS TO ESTABLISH THAT A FOREIGN ENTITY HAS/IS TRYING TO INFLUENCE AND MANIPULATE OUR INTERNAL POLITICS.
NOTHING EMOTIONAL - JUST FACTS.
The populous has been conditioned / brainwashed.
THAT I EMPHATICALLY AGREE WITH.
Steady repetition of argument effectively shouts down facts.
SURE - BUT ONE IS ENTITLED TO ONES OPINION BUT NOT ONES OWN FACTS HOWEVER UNCOMFORTABLE THEY ARE.
REGARDLESS OF ONE'S POLITICAL LEANING AND IDEOLOGY THIS SHOULD BE OFFENSIVE TO ALL OF US.
IT IS BEYONG MY COMPREHENSION WHY THIS HAS BECOME SO POLARIZED. IT IS AN ATTACK ON OUR DEMOCRACY - NOT JUST ONE SELECT GROUP. IT AFFECTS ALL OF US.
WE., ALL OF US, SHOULD WANT TO STOP THIS.
AND MY DULY ELECTED PRESIDENT MOST OF ALL.
NOT WANTING THIS TO END JUST MAKES HIM LOOK...HMMM.....YOU TELL ME..
REALLY - THIS SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH 'PARTY POLITICS'.
ALLOWING THIS TO BE JUST THAT GIVES THEM EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT.
DIVIDE AND CONQUER. OLDEST TRICK. WHILE WE FIGHT ARGUE AND BICKER THEY QUIETLY ARE SHOVING IT UP OUR ASS.
ARE WE REALLY THAT GULLIBLE? .
Fake News.
Here is the de VolKstrant article in Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-russia-cybercrime/dutch-intelligence-agency-spied-on-russian-hacking-group-media-idUSKBN1FE34W
Here are the important facts about the article that tell you it is fake news:
- Sources were unnamed (IN CAPS TO CLARIFY WHAT IS MY REPLY)SORRY BUT THEY ARE NAMED.
IT IS AN INVESTIGATIVE PIECE BY NEWSPAPER DE VOLKSKRANT. "SOURCE"..? DE VOLKSKRANT ET AL. THE 'AIVD' (LETS CALL IT THE DUTCH VERSION OF THE CIA/FBI.) AND THEY CONFIRMED.
VERY MUCH SO.
AS DID THE DUTCH GOVERNMENT.
- Dutch spied on known Russian hacking group between 2014 and 2017 - does not state that they were monitoring the hacking ring during the critical time period
YES THEY DID AND EXPLICITLY SO. INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO IMAGES FROM A HACKED CAMERA SHOWING WHO ALL IS INVOLVED ETC.
- States that Dutch Intel may have been sent to FBI for current investigation - again meaningless. To say may, means they don’t even have the ability to report that it was reported to the FBI. That Dutch Intel was watching them in 2014, but had nothing specific to report as it relates to the case - means nothing.
NO REALLY.
THEY DID.
AS IS ACKNOWLEDGED ON RECORD BY NSA (as much as they exist) AND FBI. SEVERAL TIMES ON RECORD. VERBATIM.
It says nothing. However the goal is about generating buzz via algorithms, bots, and the emotionally driven.
NO IT DOES NOT SAY NOTHING.
IT SAYS A (STATE SPONSORED) HACKING GROUP CALLED 'COZY BEAR' HACKED THE WHITE HOUSE, DNC, STATE DEPARTMENT AND WHOMEVER ELSE, POSTED/SPREAD FAKE NEWS ALL IN AN ATTEMPTS TO INFLUENCE AND AS SUCH DISCREDIT/DESTABILIZE U.S. DEMOCRACY. AS WAS TESTIFIED BY HIGH RANKING OFFICIALS. BUT THEY ARE ALL SPREADING FAKE NEWS TOO I AM SURE.
THE GOAL IS TO ESTABLISH THAT A FOREIGN ENTITY HAS/IS TRYING TO INFLUENCE AND MANIPULATE OUR INTERNAL POLITICS.
NOTHING EMOTIONAL - JUST FACTS.
The populous has been conditioned / brainwashed.
THAT I EMPHATICALLY AGREE WITH.
Steady repetition of argument effectively shouts down facts.
SURE - BUT ONE IS ENTITLED TO ONES OPINION BUT NOT ONES OWN FACTS HOWEVER UNCOMFORTABLE THEY ARE.
REGARDLESS OF ONE'S POLITICAL LEANING AND IDEOLOGY THIS SHOULD BE OFFENSIVE TO ALL OF US.
IT IS BEYONG MY COMPREHENSION WHY THIS HAS BECOME SO POLARIZED. IT IS AN ATTACK ON OUR DEMOCRACY - NOT JUST ONE SELECT GROUP. IT AFFECTS ALL OF US.
WE., ALL OF US, SHOULD WANT TO STOP THIS.
AND MY DULY ELECTED PRESIDENT MOST OF ALL.
NOT WANTING THIS TO END JUST MAKES HIM LOOK...HMMM.....YOU TELL ME..
REALLY - THIS SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH 'PARTY POLITICS'.
ALLOWING THIS TO BE JUST THAT GIVES THEM EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT.
DIVIDE AND CONQUER. OLDEST TRICK. WHILE WE FIGHT ARGUE AND BICKER THEY QUIETLY ARE SHOVING IT UP OUR ASS.
ARE WE REALLY THAT GULLIBLE? .
*yawn*
I agree. If it's the truth, well, it's the truth no matter the source.
Again, if China managed to dig up emails where Trump admits to actual rape or similar crimes then China would be known as "The HERO Nation That Saved the US from Donald "Rape Man" Trump." We'd talk about Rapegate for the next 25 years and anyone who suggested they unfairly influenced a US election would be shouted down as a rapist sympathizer.
Russia DID influence the US election, thankfully. But it's not the same thing as a "hack" and there are too many retards who think Russia got into the voting machines and skewed the election results.
Again, if China managed to dig up emails where Trump admits to actual rape or similar crimes then China would be known as "The HERO Nation That Saved the US from Donald "Rape Man" Trump." We'd talk about Rapegate for the next 25 years and anyone who suggested they unfairly influenced a US election would be shouted down as a rapist sympathizer.
Russia DID influence the US election, thankfully. But it's not the same thing as a "hack" and there are too many retards who think Russia got into the voting machines and skewed the election results.
Likely the same ones who think that if Trump is impeached that Hillary gets in. :rolleyes:
Likely the same ones who think that if Trump is impeached that Hillary gets in. :rolleyes:
The Media, and Democrats keep making it seem like the Russians actually hacked voting machines so Trump would win. However, they have no facts, nor evidence to support that. It is ludicrous that people believe them.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-27-18, 10:51
Hacking, collusion, obstruction, foul language, bad feelings--- they keep accusing Trump of lower and lower 'crimes' hoping something will stick.. to which the only answer is 'impeachment'.
If Trump threw a bucket of water on someone that was on fire, CNN would report that Trump was trying to drown the guy.
ARE WE REALLY THAT GULLIBLE? .
It seems some of us are.
Use a carefully crafted description that is part of a deceptive narrative.
Add Trump to the subject in a way that tries to associate him to the hack.
Don't seem aware Russia hacked the RNC (though less successfully)
Believe this is the first time Russia has messed with our election.
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