View Full Version : FYI..No Lock Smith J-frames in catalog
Haven't been on much lately, so if this was already mentioned....:eek: S&W now offering both 442 and 642 WITHOUT Internal Locks as regular catalogged items. GOOD NEWS FINALLY !!:D
S&W should be thrown under the bus for capitulating too much to the gun control crowd. Now it seems they are aware they jumped the gun. (Pun intended) With that said I love my no-lock J frame 337PD!
Robb Jensen
10-15-08, 21:14
Haven't been on much lately, so if this was already mentioned....:eek: S&W now offering both 442 and 642 WITHOUT Internal Locks as regular catalogged items. GOOD NEWS FINALLY !!:D
I agree GREAT NEWS, now if they offered all their revolvers w/o the locks they would sell 100% more of them.........I know for a FACT I myself would buy a 4" 686, a 8 3/8" 629 w/o a lock.
...now if they offered all their revolvers w/o the locks they would sell 100% more of them....
Amen!
Preach it!
S&W should be thrown under the bus for capitulating too much to the gun control crowd.
In a very real sense, they were. The company came close to bankruptcy which is why new (American) investors were able to take the company away from the old (British) owners.
I got a chance to see the revolver manufacturing process at Smith last week. It was the first time I ever saw a revolver production line, and the complexity is just incredible compared to what it takes for semiautos. It doesn't surprise me at all that Smith has resisted the calls to double the forging & machining process necessary to make two different versions of these guns. From a manufacturing/production standpoint, it really is an added complication.
They must have the lock guns. There are states in the U.S. that require them. It's all well and good for consumers to say "don't sell in those states!" but that isn't practical for a business. California continues to be the largest market for handguns in the U.S.
Having said that, I'm certainly glad they're making the no-locks.
A friend of mine rec'd one of the new no "J" Lock 642's last week. He is very happy with it. Occassionally, I steer him right.;)
CarlosDJackal
10-16-08, 10:48
You guys have to remember that there are states that require built-in gun locks. And unless a gun maker wants to abandon any sales from those states, they will continue to have them. I have a S&W 340PD Scandium that has a built-in gun lock. I have absolutely no idea where the keys are, but since I am not required to use them, I have not found any kind of issue with it having this "feature". JM2CW.
motorcopm4
10-17-08, 06:30
I love my old Model 37 Chiefs special because it has no lock, unfortunately its not rated for +p like the new ones
John_Wayne777
10-17-08, 07:34
In a very real sense, they were. The company came close to bankruptcy which is why new (American) investors were able to take the company away from the old (British) owners.
I got a chance to see the revolver manufacturing process at Smith last week. It was the first time I ever saw a revolver production line, and the complexity is just incredible compared to what it takes for semiautos. It doesn't surprise me at all that Smith has resisted the calls to double the forging & machining process necessary to make two different versions of these guns. From a manufacturing/production standpoint, it really is an added complication.
They must have the lock guns. There are states in the U.S. that require them. It's all well and good for consumers to say "don't sell in those states!" but that isn't practical for a business. California continues to be the largest market for handguns in the U.S.
Having said that, I'm certainly glad they're making the no-locks.
Perhaps they could do something similar to what they do with the M&Ps....all M&P's are capable of having a lock installed, but those without the internal lock just get a slot filler and they're out the door. They could CNC machine all the frames and sideplates the same way but not actually go through the process of installing the lock on some of the revolvers offered for sale. Instead they could put in a plug where the lock would normally be and leave it at that.
As a consumer I'd much prefer that option to having to get the weapon and then take it apart to get rid of the lock.
John_Wayne777
10-17-08, 07:38
You guys have to remember that there are states that require built-in gun locks. And unless a gun maker wants to abandon any sales from those states, they will continue to have them. I have a S&W 340PD Scandium that has a built-in gun lock. I have absolutely no idea where the keys are, but since I am not required to use them, I have not found any kind of issue with it having this "feature". JM2CW.
My problem is that the small, lightweight J frames (and some of the lightweight versions of larger revolvers) have had problems with the lock spontaneously engaging under recoil...rendering the weapon useless.
That's not a risk I'm prepared to live with, and it's created quite an uproar in some circles. I can only assume that's part of the reason why no-lock revolvers are showing up in S&W's product line again.
Only one of my S&W revolvers was purchased during the lock era, and I've removed the lock from that revolver entirely. My main carry revolver is pre-lock.
David Thomas
10-17-08, 09:59
Perhaps they could do something similar to what they do with the M&Ps....all M&P's are capable of having a lock installed, but those without the internal lock just get a slot filler and they're out the door. They could CNC machine all the frames and sideplates the same way but not actually go through the process of installing the lock on some of the revolvers offered for sale. Instead they could put in a plug where the lock would normally be and leave it at that.
As a consumer I'd much prefer that option to having to get the weapon and then take it apart to get rid of the lock.
I do not think I would purchase a plugged S&W revolver, just as I have not and will not purchase a S&W with a lock. To me it would be almost as big of a wart as the lock, if at all visible. Right or wrong, I despise the lock based on numerous aspects, appearance included. As you might guess, I miss the pinned barrels and recessed cylinders (on the classics at least).
Having said that, I have purchased 2 of the 3 latest offerings from S&W that did not have the lock, namely a 642 and 37-2. I have not yet purchased a 442, but that may be a good christmas present to myself. I applaud S&W's efforts in turning around the company, and acknowledge the hurdles of making a no-lock line. Nevertheless, I can't help but think that the gun owners would rally around S&W for their efforts to produce a no-lock line and go on a buying frenzy. The costs could be passed on to the customers making the demand for a no-lock revo by a reasonable increase in price. I also believe that very few people would balk at a reasonable price increase.
John_Wayne777
10-17-08, 12:46
My main concern is function, as the S&W revolvers I buy these days are meant for carry use. I wouldn't care about the "wart" or the aesthetics in general.
The revolvers I'm buying for collector purposes and general merriment are older production revolvers with blued and nickel finishes.
rubberneck
10-17-08, 13:02
My problem is that the small, lightweight J frames (and some of the lightweight versions of larger revolvers) have had problems with the lock spontaneously engaging under recoil...rendering the weapon useless.
My understanding in talking to Jim Dalton who runs their performance center is that only happened with guns chambered in 44 Mag and then only with full power magnum loads (the 44 specials were fine). They didn't have a problem with any of the 357/38 special/44 special/45ACP guns regardless of the loadings.
John_Wayne777
10-17-08, 15:30
My understanding in talking to Jim Dalton who runs their performance center is that only happened with guns chambered in 44 Mag and then only with full power magnum loads (the 44 specials were fine). They didn't have a problem with any of the 357/38 special/44 special/45ACP guns regardless of the loadings.
Members of the S&W forums reported that a number of other models and calibers were also experiencing the issue:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/500103904/m/228102718
I belive that if the internal lock spring fails, the lock fails in the locked position, making a nice club because you certainly can't shoot it.
With the exception of the recent +P rated 642-1 no-lock, and the no-lock 37-2 (with forged trigger / hammer and combined trigger + firing pin) I only purchase pre-lock Smiths, and the 642-1 is one of two MIM revolvers I own, the other being a recently factory refinished (from silver to black) pre-lock 342 AirLite Titanium. Smith & Wesson's Performance Center charged me $134.00 shipped for the excellent refinish job. The lacquered silver was flacking a bit and the black looks much better. Very light, perfect for pocket carry, and rated for +P.
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1201/342leftfullbi0.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=342leftfullbi0.jpg)http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8199/342fullyq7.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=342fullyq7.jpg)http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1026/342logoju6.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=342logoju6.jpg)
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/4824/342bblrightln4.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=342bblrightln4.jpg)http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5682/342bbltc4.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=342bbltc4.jpg)http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9255/342rightyw4.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=342rightyw4.jpg)
David Thomas
10-22-08, 22:48
...the other being a recently factory refinished (from silver to black) pre-lock 342 AirLite Titanium. Smith & Wesson's Performance Center charged me $134.00 shipped for the excellent refinish job. The lacquered silver was flacking a bit and the black looks much better. Very light, perfect for pocket carry, and rated for +P.
very sweet 342, f.2!
Today, I again backed up my claim that I will once again buy S&W revolvers if they quit putting the lock on them with the purchase of a new 40-1. Of course I would rather have forged internals, but that is less likely to change than the lock.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/SW40-1006.jpg
Now I just need some Tyler T-grips for it.
David Thomas
11-01-08, 20:36
Posted yesterday on S&W forums ( I have not verified this info at all):
S&W Revolvers available without the lock:
#SMI100419 15 · 38spl · 4" · Brite Blue · Adjustable Sight · SAMPLE · No Lock........$389.99
#SMI101615 37 · 38spl · 2" · Black Airweight · Fixed Sight · Round Butt · No Lock · Box Marked "Japan" ...$349.99
#SMI102810 442 · 38spl · 1.87" · Black · Limited Edition · Round Butt · No Internal Lock....$359.99
#SMI102420 60 · 357Mag · 2.13" · Stainless · Fixed Sight · Rubber Grip · No Lock.......$439.99
#SMI102430 60 · 357Mag · 3" · Stainless · Adjustable Sight · Full Lug · No Lock............$449.99
#SMI102302 60NL · 38spl · 2" · Stainless · Rubber Grip · 5-shot · No Lock.....$429.99
#SMI102434 60-10 · 357Mag · 3" · Full Lug · Adjustable Sight · No Lock · Round Butt................$469.99
#SMI103644 629 · 44Mag · 6.5"· Stainless · Classic Deluxe · 2 Grips · No Internal Lock · Extra Sight Blades.....$649.99
#SMI149811 629 · 44Mag · 6.5"· Stainless · Classic · "NRA" · Full Lug · No Lock.....$599.99
#SMI103640 629 · 44Mag · 8.37" · Stainless · Classic · Full Lug · No Internal Lock......$599.99
#SMI103646 629 · 44Mag · 8.37" · Stainless · Classic · 2-Grips · No Internal Lock.....$549.99
#SMI103070 638 · 38spl · 1.87"· Stainless · Lightweight Bodyguard · No Lock.....$369.99
#SMI102502 64 · 38spl+P · 2"· Stainless · Fixed Sight · No Lock · Rubber Grip.........$449.99
#SMI104272 686 · 357Mag · 6"· Stainless · Ported · Full Lug · No Lock.................$549.99
Also posted today on S&W forums:
Originally posted by DocAlamo:
Guys,
I asked her three times about the lock, just to make sure I was not hallucinating auditorily. She confirmed to me that, because they have gotten so many complaints, that they were supposed to begin making revolvers with the lock as an optional add-on. I told her that would make a ton of folks on this forum excited and they should anticipate sales to triple if they do.
She also said that there would be four more classics, with the Model 19 being one of them. I told her that if I came without the lock to just put one aside for me!! SCORE. To be honest, when I heard the Model 19 I completely went brain dead as to what the other models were.
She also said they were increasing their Night Guard line ... and I would look for a .327 Mag in that line-up.
I sure hope she was not pulling my leg ... that would have been SO RUDE and CRUEL. But, this is Halloween week. I would have called her bluff if it was April 1st!!
Dr. Bill
If this is true, I will be getting a 638, a 327, and at least one nightguard - possibly 3: a .357, a 45 acp, and a 44.
David Thomas
11-02-08, 08:18
Are those MSRPs????
I think those prices and models are from CDNN.
My new no-lock S&W's purchased recently:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/carryoptions002.jpg
crowkiller
11-12-08, 08:15
What S&W revolvers are verified to be offered with no lock?
What S&W revolvers are verified to be offered with no lock?
442 & 642
David Thomas
11-12-08, 11:14
442 & 642
642, 442, 40-1, and 37-2 have been confirmed.
SW well they are coming around..I just picked up a 442 no lock about 6 months ago. I want a 686 with no lock...I was considering a Ruger SP 100, but I would rather wait to see if SW realizes that the anti gun crowd isn't giving them any money.
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