View Full Version : Razor GenII or Nightforce ATACR
I’m getting back into precision bolt guns in the near future. Ive got the rifles down to a short list but I’m having an issue deciding on a scope.
My two main choices are a Razor 4.5-27 or a Nightforce ATACR F1 5-25. With Le/mil pricing they are within a couple hundred bucks of each other.
Is there a reason to go with one over the other? I have a little bit of hands on experience with both and like both.
I have the Razor and I really enjoy it. I will say that it is heavy but it’s built like a tank. The turrets are very good and the zero stop allows for .5 mil pas zero.
If you want a Razor go over to snipershide and they sell for $1800 on the low end to $2050 for the high end.
They are always for sale and most people are getting the Mil with the EBR-2C reticle.
I have only spent a little bit of time with that Nightforce and to me it looked hazy but it wasn’t my scope. It might have had dirty lenses. The other I have spent some time behind was a beast and that’s just a whole another animal.
I’m sure either one will work very well for you and I would pick what you can get the cheapest.
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Both are wonderful optics. However, the Vortex is ridiculously heavy and dare I say, lower quality. Heavy scopes are not necessarily more durable.
While I don’t currently own a NF, I’d go with a FFP ATACR of the two you’ve listed. The turrets are a better design, the size and weight is better, and NF has a track record for durability.
As far as glass quality, NF glass tends to have a pale bias while Vortex tends to use coatings to make colors stand out more. Resolution is fairly similar with perhaps a bit of an edge toward the NF. Many perceive glass with more color to be “better” when they peer through it but that is somewhat deceptive.
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What about the Nightforce turrets are better?
Easier to set. Windage is also capped which is a big plus. The “feel”, subjective, I know, I’d smoother and easier to read. Both are quality optics but I’d give the edge to the NF.
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Failure2Stop
02-05-18, 13:27
NF.
Reasons:
1- NF makes a high quality product that is trusted not only in competition circles, but deployed professional application as well.
2- Adjustments are as perfect as you can get in a production mechanical product.
3- Excellent zero stop feature.
4- Tremor 3 reticle availability. All other reticles pale in comparison.
Cgrunt, go to any of your local PRS event and see what the most popular scope is. The competition guys are harder on their equipment then just about anyone on the planet and if it holds up to them it will hold up to just about anything.
Again if money is an object I would take what you can get cheaper.
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Jwknutson17
02-06-18, 06:06
Any reason you did not add a Kahles 624i SKMR3 to the list? I have found that short of the TT525p that the Kahles is superior to both the NF and Razor. I have all 4 optics I have mentioned here.. It would be my pick. And I think most would agree that have used said above. Snipers Hide would be the place I would poke around on for more options on high quality glass.
Eurodriver
02-06-18, 06:19
NF.
Reasons:
1- NF makes a high quality product that is trusted not only in competition circles, but deployed professional application as well.
2- Adjustments are as perfect as you can get in a production mechanical product.
3- Excellent zero stop feature.
4- Tremor 3 reticle availability. All other reticles pale in comparison.
I have seen the Razor Gen IIs do incredible things, work incredibly well, and be durable as hell. Think uncased Ruger RPR in the back of a Wrangler for about 3 hours on rough offroad terrain (whoop-dees, washboard, shit falling all over the damn place) and still make a first round hit at 1,200 yards. I know Geissele loves the Gen2 Razors. I know they are even being used in HSLD environments.
But the answer here is clear.
ATACR
C-Grunt, do not be the guy who passes up the Mercedes-Benz S Class for the fully loaded Hyundai Genesis.
I have seen the Razor Gen IIs do incredible things, work incredibly well, and be durable as hell. Think uncased Ruger RPR in the back of a Wrangler for about 3 hours on rough offroad terrain (whoop-dees, washboard, shit falling all over the damn place) and still make a first round hit at 1,200 yards. I know Geissele loves the Gen2 Razors. I know they are even being used in HSLD environments.
But the answer here is clear.
ATACR
C-Grunt, do not be the guy who passes up the Mercedes-Benz S Class for the fully loaded Hyundai Genesis.
Vortexmasterrace
But the NF looks pretty dope though
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Any reason you did not add a Kahles 624i SKMR3 to the list? I have found that short of the TT525p that the Kahles is superior to both the NF and Razor. I have all 4 optics I have mentioned here.. It would be my pick. And I think most would agree that have used said above. Snipers Hide would be the place I would poke around on for more options on high quality glass.
Those are the two I have personally handled. I’ll look into the Kahles though.
I have seen the Razor Gen IIs do incredible things, work incredibly well, and be durable as hell. Think uncased Ruger RPR in the back of a Wrangler for about 3 hours on rough offroad terrain (whoop-dees, washboard, shit falling all over the damn place) and still make a first round hit at 1,200 yards. I know Geissele loves the Gen2 Razors. I know they are even being used in HSLD environments.
But the answer here is clear.
ATACR
C-Grunt, do not be the guy who passes up the Mercedes-Benz S Class for the fully loaded Hyundai Genesis.
Weren't you the guy that traded in the Benz for a V6 Mustang???? LOL
Just kidding... I get what you are saying.
If I can get the ATACR F1 Tremor3 for the price I was told (a little lower than standard mil/le price) then I will.
https://i.imgur.com/sXFRtvH.jpg
Thread needed a pic
I made a terrible mistake. I had my upper removed from the lower for cleaning. The upper was placed on a tall barstool "just for a moment" and like a moron I bumped it and it fell onto tile floor. It landed directly on the ATACR's elevation turret, which was slightly damaged. I took it shooting. Zero didn't change and it tracks fine. Aside from a tiny dent on the turret it is fine. I've been real happy with this scope(4-16x32). I can see better through it than my 20-60x 60mm Bausch and Lomb spotting scope, which is a middle of the road circa 1990 scope, comparable to a modern $300 leupold. That's a weird comparison, but it is neat to me.
Coal Dragger
02-06-18, 20:41
Not an ATACR but I have an NXS 3.5-15X50 that survived a 15’ fall out of a tree stand, landing on the elevation turret. That same fall was hard enough the plastic stock on my old Steyr SSG69 cracked half at the wrist.
Once a new stock was sourced and the rifle was back together the scope held zero. Tracks just fine to this day.
voiceofreason
02-08-18, 14:28
I've used both (own the razor) and I'd recommend either as they have more in common than difference. Vortex has a great warranty (my razor has been fine), NF rarely requires the use of a warranty.
I'd decide based upon the reticle you decide is best for you. I've never used the Tremor3 specifically so I won't comment on it, but the older grid reticles work great in dusty environments when you can adjust from your previous misses very quickly.
That said, I prefer the standard christmas tree reticles.
The Kahles is lighter and slightly better glass than either of the aforementioned scopes to my eye, but I've heard they may not be as mechanically accurate. I've never owned a Kahles so I can't answer to that, but the glass is excellent and much lighter than the Razor or ATACR. SKMR3 is an excellent reticle. Like it more than my EBR-2C by a bit.
Having owned more than a few scopes, the Razor just works for me in every area I want it to as it's good to great in every area except weight.
Scopes are more than just turret feel, mechanical accuracy, and good glass (no offense to Frank Galli, but I disagree that there is little difference between glass these days, HUGE differences IMO). They have to work for you as a shooter and just like a pistol, what works well for others may not be as efficient for you and your needs.
Eurodriver
02-08-18, 18:25
Weren't you the guy that traded in the Benz for a V6 Mustang???? LOL
Which I then promptly returned... #Carmax ;)
I have a C529 on a 20" 5.56 that's built like a tank. I went Nightforce for the SFP milr reticle, .1 mil adj, and as F2S said the movement and zero stop are second to none in my limited experience. More scope than I need certainly but aging eyes and all it works for precise shots. Not seeing the benefit of FFP on precision, I'd rather have a consistent fine reticle and deal with the x4 and x2 conversions if need be if milling on 5.5 or 11 respectively. Weights are comparable, glass no idea I've not looked through an ATACR.
I've run my Gen II RZR 4.5-27 extremely hard for years in PRS matches, local matches, hunting, etc. and it's an amazing optic for the money. I don't own an ATACR but have shot behind a few, and got the chance to spend some time behind the new 7-35 ATACR recently, and I have to say, i am very impressed with the NF ATACR scopes. I think you'll be well served with either scope.
I love my Gen II Rzr, but with cost being similar, i might go with the NF due to weight.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-20-18, 00:54
My Razor (Gen 1 mind you) makes my rifle into a crew served weapon. The ATACR may help it feel more man portable.
I went looking at the ATACR for a lighter weight alternative and found this:
ATACR 4-16x42 F1 Weight (ounces/grams) 30 oz/850g, only 1 oz lighter than my NXS™ 5.5-22×50 RIFLESCOPE @31 oz/879g...
2.5x10x32(or x42) are 19 oz (I have the 32mm version)
No free lunch here.
voiceofreason
02-23-18, 17:49
def get at least 20x mag, 25x is better
you may compete at 15x, but you'll likely zero and spot at higher magnification
my Razor2 has pincushioning at 4.5x btw, though i never use below 10x
noticeable at 8x, but not an issue at all
Might be worth a read:
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2017/03/03/long-range-scopes-pros-use/
I have the razor gen ii. It's heavy. But it couldn't perform better for me.
voiceofreason
03-25-18, 07:56
both scopes are made in the same factory, just to different specs per the companies
noonesshowmonkey
03-25-18, 15:27
I have hands on time with an ATACR 4-16 F1, and only limited experience with a few other optics. No time spent behind a Vortex Razor HD.
The ATACR, after a long search, ended up being the scope that I chose to blow my sheckles on. Ended up doing very well. Extremely clear, very crisp, great (GREAT!) turrets, zero-stop is easy to set, very positive, and returns perfectly. I can't say enough good things about the scope. It isn't light, but very little is when you get up in magnification. At 16x, everything was clear and crisp with very little distortion at all, even near the edges. Great optic.
I would never tell someone that they were wasting their money getting a NF ATACR. They're really gucci, but they deliver.
I find the ATACR line lacks features (and reticles if you're not a Horus guy) for the price; MIL-C is nice, but I'd like at least some Christmas tree without paying for a Horus reticle I don't like. The glass is good, yes. The turrets are good, yes. The zero stop system NF uses is still a big meh in my book.
I think the Leupold Mk5 5-25 is now on the list. Looks pretty nice and with Leupolds LE/Mil discount I’d probably the cheapest. Anyone have time behind one? I heard really good things about the Mk6 and this looks to have a lot of the same features.
That mk5 looks great on paper. 30oz. 35mils of vertical adjustment. I like the reticle choices. Assuming everything tracks properly, it looks awesome. Not crazy about a 35mm tube just because of challenges finding mounts. Spuhr has one I like.
I'd like to get behind that scope. Please update if you go with it.
Furbyballer
04-12-18, 19:39
I own 3 atacrs now. The 1-8, 4-16, and 7-35. All are top notch and have a warranty the same as vortex, but you almost never have to use it with NF.
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That's not true, Nightforce only warranties the electronics for 3 years.
OP, have you had a chance to look thru the Kahles? I have been slowly switching my competition rifles away from NF to the Kahles.
NF glass still has a slight edge on the Kahles but the turrets, parallax, and ocular on the Kahles are second to none. Reticle choices on the Kahles are limited, usually the biggest factor in folks I know choosing not to use one.
This is of course just my opinion.
OP, have you had a chance to look thru the Kahles? I have been slowly switching my competition rifles away from NF to the Kahles.
NF glass still has a slight edge on the Kahles but the turrets, parallax, and ocular on the Kahles are second to none. Reticle choices on the Kahles are limited, usually the biggest factor in folks I know choosing not to use one.
This is of course just my opinion.
I’m not super picky on reticles. I want a tree type and Kahles has that. I haven’t contacted them yet about mil/LE pricing.
Vortex made a limited run of Razor gen 2's in black, wish these were still available. I hate the brown.
https://www.eurooptic.com/RZR-42706-B-Vortex-Razor-HD-Gen-II-45-27x56-Riflescope-with-.aspx
Vortex made a limited run of Razor gen 2's in black, wish these were still available. I hate the brown.
https://www.eurooptic.com/RZR-42706-B-Vortex-Razor-HD-Gen-II-45-27x56-Riflescope-with-.aspx
Man, I would love to have one of those.
Vegasshooter
05-25-18, 12:24
I will offer my opinion, since I have several of the higher end scopes mentioned. Scopes I currently own: NF ATACR 1-8, NF NX8 1-8, Schmidt &Bender PMII 5-25 and a PMII 3-20. Just recently sold a Vortex Razor 1-6, and I bought my buddy’s Razor 4.5-27 for him (he bought on my recommendation, and paid me back). So, I have played with MANY of the “Tier 1” optics. I truly believe when you get to the top level, buy what speaks to you. There is no one scope that has it all or can do it all better. The key is finding the best list for YOU. Truly, the ATACR line is fantastic. The S&B PMII are the gold standard to many folks. The Razor is an awesome scope.
Buy what gives you the tickles.
Shop price, Reticle, and feel.
For me....right now....I’m on a NF kick. I bought the two newest 1-8’s. They are on two rifles I shoot almost daily.
That would change if I broke out any of my 6.5CM.
My favorite is usually the one I’m behind right then.
I will offer my opinion, since I have several of the higher end scopes mentioned. Scopes I currently own: NF ATACR 1-8, NF NX8 1-8, Schmidt &Bender PMII 5-25 and a PMII 3-20. Just recently sold a Vortex Razor 1-6, and I bought my buddy’s Razor 4.5-27 for him (he bought on my recommendation, and paid me back). So, I have played with MANY of the “Tier 1” optics. I truly believe when you get to the top level, buy what speaks to you. There is no one scope that has it all or can do it all better. The key is finding the best list for YOU. Truly, the ATACR line is fantastic. The S&B PMII are the gold standard to many folks. The Razor is an awesome scope.
Buy what gives you the tickles.
Shop price, Reticle, and feel.
For me....right now....I’m on a NF kick. I bought the two newest 1-8’s. They are on two rifles I shoot almost daily.
That would change if I broke out any of my 6.5CM.
My favorite is usually the one I’m behind right then.
This is the best approach, in my opinion. Once you cross the "Tier 1" threshold, buy what ticks the most boxes for you. I'm looking to part with a S&B PMII because, as awesome as it is, the Vortex AMG (and to a lesser but still true extent, the Razor Gen2) ticks more boxes for me. Find what meets your own needs and tastes and run with it. Pretty much can't go wrong these days with the top players.
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