Point me in the right direction for a first build

[madmax_fal]

I believe the time is coming up for a first AR build. Probably will not have time until September to begin building, but I am ready to start looking for parts.

I am looking for a fairly reliable end result that can shoot steel case ammo consistently, the latter being the reason for a build in the first place. Don't want to mess up a nice AR with potentiality damaging ammo, but would also like to make use of cheap Tula and Wolf.

Are there any kits or manufactures to avoid? Which ones to buy?

Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated!

[RobertTheTexan]

So you want a reliable build, but what will be the purpose of your AR? That really does drive some decisions. But from a general sense:
I use Aero Precision lowers and uppers (usually)
I use DSG lower parts
I use Ballistic Advantage barrels.

That’s the “usual”. I have exceptions. I have a couple of CHF Daniel Defense barrels and a LaRue 12” Stealth. I have a couple of Vltor MUR-1A uppers. I believe they are about the best upper you can get. The CHF barrels are durable.
Triggers are pretty personal. My higher end triggers are Geissele and Timney, my “go to” are 4-4.5 LB EDT2. They run about $59 and are worth every cent. All my builds run crappy steel cased Wolf and everything else.



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[madmax_fal]

The main purpose of this build would be a cheap "blaster." I plan on using steel ammo in this one. Abuse is the word that comes to mind.

[CPM]

An expensive, TDP built, factory AR is meant to be abused. They will run steel ammo just fine. Save the money and buy more ammo.

[Stickman]

An expensive, TDP built, factory AR is meant to be abused. They will run steel ammo just fine. Save the money and buy more ammo.

Yup, picking up a BCM or Colt at the current prices would work well.

[Hammertime]

The answer is DO NOT build one if you can help it. Buy something reliable off the shelf from a quality maker. Then you'll have resale value and a product with an actual reputation. Frankenguns resale value is crap.


B

[elephant]

In my opinion: if your going to build something, build it with enthusiasm and build it right. How you start and how you finish will determine the quality of your build.

Resale value is always critical, don't believe me, just look in the EE. A lot of members selling there "custom builds" for a fraction of the cost. As Hammertime mentioned, "don't build one if you can help it".
Having said that here goes. Always start with a good lower. The lower is your foundation in which you build out the rest of the gun.

Here is a list of brands that you should think about when building your AR:

USM4
Knights Armament Company
Colt
LMT
Noveske
Centurion
RCA
AAC
Midwest Industries
Geissele
Aimpoint

If you start with a Anderson Arms, Spikes Tactical, Colt, Mega, USM4 lower, then you should look at completing your AR using parts equivalent priced to the lower.

An example of a top tier build:

USM4 Lower
Colt Socom Upper
Centurion Rail
LMT LPK
LMT stock
Geissele SSA
RCA BCG
AAC 51T flash hider

An example of a High-Mid range build:

Knights Armament lower
Colt 6920 upper
BCM rail
CMMG LPK
Magpul stock
ALG ACT
phosphate BCG
A2 flash hider



In my opinion: I think these 2 examples represent the best ideal quality individual parts, best recognizable brands that would give you the best return on investment and a signature platform to call you own.

[Firefly]

Just buy a 6920.

I have put together an SR-25, a retro build, and umpteen ARs at umpteen armorers courses and each time I lose a pin or a Jesus spring or have have a 3rd hand; I always ask myself "Why do you keep doing this to yourself?

You really don't save as much compared to just buying a 6920 at current prices.

And anything "custom" you want to do has been made and is available as an upper.

Just hit the easy button

[fledge]

Build because you love it. Because it’s a worthwhile skill. Because you like to work with your hands when you have a spare moment. Because when you hit the target you know you made every component, with your knowhow, your choices, do its thing. Because working with your gun when you aren’t shooting it is also part of the pleasure of the hobby and tacit knowledge to pass down.

Who cares about resale. Why would you want to sell anyway? Plan for the long haul and learn your weapon. It’s a companion on a longer journey than a pic thread on a forum.

The right direction is to commit to the right tools. I think geissele rod and block are both great places to start. For a quality beater range blaster, it’s hard to beat Aero parts on sale.

[26 Inf]

I believe the time is coming up for a first AR build. Probably will not have time until September to begin building, but I am ready to start looking for parts.

I am looking for a fairly reliable end result that can shoot steel case ammo consistently, the latter being the reason for a build in the first place. Don't want to mess up a nice AR with potentiality damaging ammo, but would also like to make use of cheap Tula and Wolf.

Are there any kits or manufactures to avoid? Which ones to buy?

Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated!

I believe the time is coming up for a first AR build.

I think it is pretty clear that you want to build an AR as some form of self-actualization. Unlike others on the board, I'm not going to try to tell you that what you want to do is wrong, or low IQ. I will, however, forewarn you that you will likely spend more putting together a reliable range gun than you would likely spend buying a comparable Colt, the most common example being a 6920.

I suggest buying any freaking lower you want, as long as it is machined from a 7075-T6 forging. Right now I think Sionics has one of the hottest deals, a blemished complete lower assembly for 199.95 - http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/45-clearance It has their enhanced mil-spec trigger which most folks say are pretty nice.

If you are wanting to absolutely go budget Anderson lowers can be had for 39.95 and Aero Precision lowers can be had for 79.95 at Aim Surplus.

As far as I'm concerned the best trigger for under 100.00 is the LaRue Tactical MBT-25 for 99.95 (if you are willing to wait - read the options) https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/

Everyone has their opinions on LPK's, if you get the Sionics lower, you won't have to worry. ALG sells an LPK w/o grip and FCG for 49.00; Sionics has the same deal, their Lower Parts Kit - Builder, for 39.00 (add 10.00 for an Ambi Safety) http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/28-lower-receiver-parts

Grips - to each his own, I prefer B5 Systems Type 23.

Receiver extensions, I'm meh as long as they are mil-spec. Unless you want an A5 - mine is BCM.

The accuracy of the AR lies in the trigger, the upper receiver and the barrel. For uppers I use BCM blems exclusively. Right now they are 59.95 https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Upper-Receiver-Assembly-M4-Flat-Top-demo-p/flat%20top%20-upper%20-m4%20demo.htm

For barrels, I've only used Green Mountain Barrels http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/ar-15-m16-m4-rifle-barrels/ (they are an OEM suppler to several well-respected companies) or Ballistic Advantage 223 Wylde Premium Series, Hanson Profile.

For rails I use ALG EMR's https://algdefense.com/rails.html (I always get the Geissele Carbon Steel gas block with the rail https://algdefense.com/accessories/ar-15/gas-blocks.html)

Stocks I like either the B5 SOPMOD or the EXos Ti-7.

Slings - Sheriff of Baghdad B-Sling. I buy the Mash hook models and have my darling wife replace the mash hook with a QD sling swivel https://sobtactical.com/store/slings/

I have never, ever, ever, built one as cheap as I could buy a comparable rifle. But it is fun.

ETA - the LaRue kits come pretty close, I have 1091.00 (minus sights) in my 6.5 Grendel - best buy I ever made.

[Zirk208]

I sort of "Built" one just because I wanted to say that I could, and to learn the ins and outs of a base level AR.
Always start with a goal in mind, so you don't just end up vomiting the Magpul catalog all over your AR. My goal was to make a lightweight, 0-100 yard range gun for my wife to learn the basics on and to get acclimated to shooting with.
-Aero Lower
-Colt LPK from G&R Tactical
-ALG ACT Trigger
-BCM receiver extension kit
-Magpul STR stock
-BCM Mod3 grip
-BCM upper bought as a complete package: 16" enhanced Lightweight barrel, (standard, not hammer forged) mid-length, with 15" KMR, and BCM comp
-Raptor charging handle
-Vortex Viper PST 1-4x scope on a Vortex one piece mount.

The build took me the better part of two years, interrupted by a kid or two. I call it my "$20 rifle", as I had to save for it $20 at a time, with each paycheck.

I needed very few specialized tools to assemble it, I made a few mistakes, dinged it up doing the bolt catch, and I learned enough to just buy an LMT complete lower for the next one.

I will admit that I watched SEVERAL youtube videos on assembling a lower and followed an instructional guide from TOS. I also consulted with our department armor who has been through Ken Elmore's classes.

[RobertTheTexan]

In my opinion: if your going to build something, build it with enthusiasm and build it right. How you start and how you finish will determine the quality of your build.

Resale value is always critical, don't believe me, just look in the EE. A lot of members selling there "custom builds" for a fraction of the cost. As Hammertime mentioned, "don't build one if you can help it".
Having said that here goes. Always start with a good lower. The lower is your foundation in which you build out the rest of the gun.

Here is a list of brands that you should think about when building your AR:

USM4
Knights Armament Company
Colt
LMT
Noveske
Centurion
RCA
AAC
Midwest Industries
Geissele
Aimpoint

If you start with a Anderson Arms, Spikes Tactical, Colt, Mega, USM4 lower, then you should look at completing your AR using parts equivalent priced to the lower.

An example of a top tier build:

USM4 Lower
Colt Socom Upper
Centurion Rail
LMT LPK
LMT stock
Geissele SSA
RCA BCG
AAC 51T flash hider

An example of a High-Mid range build:

Knights Armament lower
Colt 6920 upper
BCM rail
CMMG LPK
Magpul stock
ALG ACT
phosphate BCG
A2 flash hider



In my opinion: I think these 2 examples represent the best ideal quality individual parts, best recognizable brands that would give you the best return on investment and a signature platform to call you own.

This list is a bit confusing. What does an AAC 51T belong on the list unless he’s buying an AAC can. I don’t understand the logic behind that. I think of a lot better comp’s and better FH for less.
Also on your mid-high build, you recommend a lower that costs almost $900 bucks and then throw in a generic BCG and birdcage FH that cost $8 bucks? Not trying topics it apart, but I’m not quite following your logic.


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[elephant]

I built and purchased a few guns and sold 3 used and 1 new on the Equipment Exchange

1:
Noveske chainsaw upper/lower
CMT LPK
Noveske 14" mid length SS barrel w/ used Flaming Pig
used Vltor rail
ALG ACT trigger
Troy flip up sights
used Magpul grip
used Magpul stock

cost: $1560
sold for $1700

2:
used USM4 lower
Colt socom upper
used Centurion rail
no name $65 mid length M4 barrel from Brownell's
used Geissele SSA trigger
used KAC flip up micro sights
used B5 stock
Ergo grip

cost: $1200
Traded for a slightly used KAC SR-15 E3 MOD1

3.

used KAC SR-15 lower
no name complete keyhole upper from Midway
used Midwest Ind. rail
Colt Socom mid length barrel
used AAC flash hider
take off KAC 2 stage trigger (I got for free)
Ergo grip
used LMT stock


cost: $1290
sold for $1450

4.

New Factory Colt 6920
Matech rear sight
B5 systems stock
used KAC RIS
used KAC vertical grip
used KAC N4 flash hider
used Surefire 961

cost: $1450
sold for $900 - I lost $450

I know resale isn't everything to everyone but if you build something and just happen to get tired of it one day like I do, you would much rather have something someone else would want and is willing to pay for. I think buying a new gun and then adding you personal preferences to it is just throwing money away. On the EE, if your patient, you can find some really good deals. I got a complete used Knights Armament SR-15 Keymod dimple barrel upper with AAC 51t for $850. Ebay is another good place to look but be on guard and be diligent. There is nothing wrong with building top tier rifle from new and used parts. My best advise is to chose where you start and have an idea where you will finish.

I know this sounds weird but I have found that certain brands go well with other brands. This is not a guideline but just an observation:

Noveske-Vltor-Troy

Colt-KAC-Larue

Midwest-PWS-Seekins

BMC-Scalarworks-Tango Down

Spikes Tactical-Rainier Arms-Strike Ind.

[elephant]

This list is a bit confusing. What does an AAC 51T belong on the list unless he’s buying an AAC can. I don’t understand the logic behind that. I think of a lot better comp’s and better FH for less.
Also on your mid-high build, you recommend a lower that costs almost $900 bucks and then throw in a generic BCG and birdcage FH that cost $8 bucks? Not trying topics it apart, but I’m not quite following your logic.


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There is nothing wrong with spending money, there's nothing wrong with saving money either. The mid-high allows for spending money where it is needed while saving money in other places. I chose the AAC 51T because there are quite a few cans that have a AAC acme 51t adapter (AAC, Silencer Co, Gemtech, Bowers and YHM-I think).

KAC lowers are not $900 are they?, ive seen them for $650. Phosphate is a coating, Nitride is a treatment and is slicker and resist rust better. I know there is a big difference but a BCG to me isn't a crucial decision. I wouldn't let a BCG hold up a gun build if that makes sense. Like, I wouldnt recommend someone buying a $50 trigger now only to buy a $200 trigger a few weeks from now or a $85 barrel today only to wait a few months and buy a $250 barrel. Buy the best parts to make a good quality gun now and cheap out on things like stock, grip, FH, BCG and replace at a later date. A good aftermarket grip, stock, aftermarket FH and BCG can cost upwards to $350 and I would much rather apply that to a quality brand lower, upper, barrel or trigger.

[RobertTheTexan]

If you want to build an AR, for the sake of building it. Then do it right. Buy quality parts. Educate yourself on the process and knock it out.

Set your expectations. If you want to build one just to sell it, then you probably aren't going to be able to sell it as a complete firearm and make profit, much less break even. If you part it out and you have built with solid quality parts, then you may, MAY be able to break even on some parts.

I build all my AR's and I've built many. Before I build a firearm, I ALWAYS have a purpose. To date that purpose has never been "sell the AR". I build with a purpose. If that purpose goes away, then I will part it out. There isn't a single AR I've built that I would not trust to defend my family's life with. They are fully reliable.

But the fact you already stated you want to build an AR, then stick to your guns. It's a pile of baloney that custom built AR's are inferior, or substandard firearms. If you build quality parts, and build properly, you will have a quality AR. It's as simple as that. I have a friend who built his own uppers - and deployed with them. Fact. That pretty much blows the whole inferior quality idea in the trash.

Do your homework, there are companies out there that sell proven parts. Several have already been posted. have fun in the process. Honestly, finding good deals and researching some parts is a lot of fun too. And guess what? You're going to learn some things along the way. Just please - if you are going to watch YouTubes - do your due diligence and make sure the guy your're watching is legitimate. I cannot tell you how many videos I've watched that left me shaking my head at the utter malarkey. So be careful. Not every person out there making a video knows what they are doing.

email w/ build sheet inbound.

RTT

[RobertTheTexan]

There is nothing wrong with spending money, there's nothing wrong with saving money either. The mid-high allows for spending money where it is needed while saving money in other places. I chose the AAC 51T because there are quite a few cans that have a AAC acme 51t adapter (AAC, Silencer Co, Gemtech, Bowers and YHM-I think).

KAC lowers are not $900 are they?, ive seen them for $650.

Not all. What I looked at was priced at $850+ I've seen them for $700's as well. My point was if you're going to drop that kind of coin on your lower, then invest in a BCG. My school say don't skimp on the BCG and not just in finish - but spend some extra coin for a proven BCG. I tend to prefer LMT or LMT enhanced depending on the application.

I have built every single AR for myself, using parts from the E&E. I've also built AR's for much less than many would imagine. Typically I'll buy my LaRue or Centurion rails, my Vltor Emod or LMT stocks, pistol grips, triggers, BUIS, optics, buffer system, BCG's (if they are new) and barrels (if they are new) from the E&E I've saved countless bucks on my builds and in the end, you're hard pressed to tell ANY difference, and I guarantee at the range you can't tell any difference. It's just the same message every time someone says they want to build an AR.

We ALWAYS have some say buy a Colt
We ALWAYS have someone say buy a BCM
We ALWAYS have someone say you can't build quality AR's.
We ALWAYS have someone say you can't build for less.

[Joelski]

I believe the time is coming up for a first AR build.

I think it is pretty clear that you want to build an AR as some form of self-actualization. Unlike others on the board, I'm not going to try to tell you that what you want to do is wrong, or low IQ. I will, however, forewarn you that you will likely spend more putting together a reliable range gun than you would likely spend buying a comparable Colt, the most common example being a 6920.

I suggest buying any freaking lower you want, as long as it is machined from a 7075-T6 forging. Right now I think Sionics has one of the hottest deals, a blemished complete lower assembly for 199.95 - http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/45-clearance It has their enhanced mil-spec trigger which most folks say are pretty nice.

If you are wanting to absolutely go budget Anderson lowers can be had for 39.95 and Aero Precision lowers can be had for 79.95 at Aim Surplus.

As far as I'm concerned the best trigger for under 100.00 is the LaRue Tactical MBT-25 for 99.95 (if you are willing to wait - read the options) https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/

Everyone has their opinions on LPK's, if you get the Sionics lower, you won't have to worry. ALG sells an LPK w/o grip and FCG for 49.00; Sionics has the same deal, their Lower Parts Kit - Builder, for 39.00 (add 10.00 for an Ambi Safety) http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/28-lower-receiver-parts

Grips - to each his own, I prefer B5 Systems Type 23.

Receiver extensions, I'm meh as long as they are mil-spec. Unless you want an A5 - mine is BCM.

The accuracy of the AR lies in the trigger, the upper receiver and the barrel. For uppers I use BCM blems exclusively. Right now they are 59.95 https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Upper-Receiver-Assembly-M4-Flat-Top-demo-p/flat%20top%20-upper%20-m4%20demo.htm

For barrels, I've only used Green Mountain Barrels http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/ar-15-m16-m4-rifle-barrels/ (they are an OEM suppler to several well-respected companies) or Ballistic Advantage 223 Wylde Premium Series, Hanson Profile.

For rails I use ALG EMR's https://algdefense.com/rails.html (I always get the Geissele Carbon Steel gas block with the rail https://algdefense.com/accessories/ar-15/gas-blocks.html)

Stocks I like either the B5 SOPMOD or the EXos Ti-7.

Slings - Sheriff of Baghdad B-Sling. I buy the Mash hook models and have my darling wife replace the mash hook with a QD sling swivel https://sobtactical.com/store/slings/

I have never, ever, ever, built one as cheap as I could buy a comparable rifle. But it is fun.

ETA - the LaRue kits come pretty close, I have 1091.00 (minus sights) in my 6.5 Grendel - best buy I ever made.

This, and what Fledge said. Don't forget to figure in the cost of tools; surely a bridge to future builds. If you're doing it for yourself and maybe to teach your kid something, then follow all the rules of safety and build on.

[thegreyman]

My advice is to buy Colt (you can practically steal one right now because the prices have fallen drastically), Daniel Defense, or FN complete rifle. Add Geissele or Timney trigger.
You will spend less time on the forum, but more time on the range. If you are short, hock the kids' bicycles.

[heavygunner8]

What is your maximum budget? If it's $500, best you could do is a PSA or Ruger AR556. If it's $1000, get a Colt, if it's $1500, get a complete BCM rifle.

[Kevslatvin]

As cheap as Colt 6920 OEM1's are it would be hard to build a quality rifle for less. That said if you want to build one 'cause you like to tinker or want a project go for it using what others have said as a guide. I wouldn't worry too much about abuse. From this article https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ seems the extractor and barrel take all the abuse. Plan to change them somewhere short of 5000 rounds and you're good to go.

[elephant]

Something to think about:

Why not build a top shelf upper, you could possibly build (2) for the price of a complete AR build. I think having (2) dedicated uppers, (supposing you have a lower) would be better in the long run. I usually start off by building uppers complete with optics, and if one day I want the upper to be an actual rifle, I can build the lower to match. Just thinking about it, the only real cost you may have in the upper is the barrel ($250), BCG ($80-135), sights ($150-250), CH ($30-125) and rail ($180-400), pretty much 60-75% of a complete build. At least you can still use the upper with another lower and technically have 2-3 rifles in one.

[Iraqgunz]

I'll throw this out there as someone who does this for a living.

A. In this current market I don't recommend building anything unless there is a SPECIFIC need do so.

B. In order to CORRECTLY build an AR you need tools. Yeah, you can Youtube it if you want. But, it's not something I recommend.

C. Setting some kind of bullshit artificial budget leads to getting crap. Since you only stated it's your first AR and didn't expand on your knowledge level, I would recommend a solid basic gun first.

[vicious_cb]

Building ARs was the thing to do ~2008, but its 2018. With a market this soft there is no reason to build your own. The only "building" I do these days is replacing barrels.

[Firefly]

I'll toss this out there:

I built my SR-25 because I lucked into a genuine receiver kit and played KAC part pokemon. The rifle I ended up with was not the rifle I intended to build. I wanted an ER/Mk. 11 clone because I couldn't find one anywhere. I ended up with a M110K1 "clone" because it just fell together that way. I even had Mk. 11 Mod. 0 engravings put on early.

It was a fulfilling build but not a fun one. Kindness of strangers and right place right time to get those hard to get parts. My only cheat was a Rock Creek Barrel and a PRI gas block. But it makes it "mine". But to build something you can buy easily is kind of a waste of time and energy.

Also...I hate folks that worry about "resale". Nobody wants to pay you what you paid for a gun. Some items sell themselves but the point of a gun is to shoot and enjoy it. You may as well put the money you were planning to buy a gun with into a CD or a money market.

I like Colt but LMT, BCM, and KAC make good stuff. Also it doesn't have to "match". You can put a BCM upper on a Colt lower.

You're either wanting to shoot or wanting to impress other people and to that end, save up for a sports car. You'll get way more approval from way more people.

If you are wanting to shoot, you will find a subculture of people who only count hits and not hashtags.

Like....my slotty Colt. It has seen fire and rain, been used in some interesting classes, and is not too terribly different except for the KAC FF handguard and a need for rebarreling soon. Irons only. Nothing too extreme. If I didnt get my SR-25, it would be my main choice.

It is handy and does what I want and I'm not worried with who thinks it is "cool".

Like if you want to be an AR15 Zapman, then you need to get a 6920 ASAP and 10 USGI mags and some 5.56 and learn to shoot and live your life.

Dont end up like these people with a gun hoard who bought it to wang measure with other squares. That is lame. In that case, no matter who 'wins', you all actually lose.

JM2C

[RobertTheTexan]

I'll toss this out there:

I built my SR-25 because I lucked into a genuine receiver kit and played KAC part pokemon. The rifle I ended up with was not the rifle I intended to build. I wanted an ER/Mk. 11 clone because I couldn't find one anywhere. I ended up with a M110K1 "clone" because it just fell together that way. I even had Mk. 11 Mod. 0 engravings put on early.

It was a fulfilling build but not a fun one. Kindness of strangers and right place right time to get those hard to get parts. My only cheat was a Rock Creek Barrel and a PRI gas block. But it makes it "mine". But to build something you can buy easily is kind of a waste of time and energy.

Also...I hate folks that worry about "resale". Nobody wants to pay you what you paid for a gun. Some items sell themselves but the point of a gun is to shoot and enjoy it. You may as well put the money you were planning to buy a gun with into a CD or a money market.

I like Colt but LMT, BCM, and KAC make good stuff. Also it doesn't have to "match". You can put a BCM upper on a Colt lower.

You're either wanting to shoot or wanting to impress other people and to that end, save up for a sports car. You'll get way more approval from way more people.

If you are wanting to shoot, you will find a subculture of people who only count hits and not hashtags.

Like....my slotty Colt. It has seen fire and rain, been used in some interesting classes, and is not too terribly different except for the KAC FF handguard and a need for rebarreling soon. Irons only. Nothing too extreme. If I didnt get my SR-25, it would be my main choice.

It is handy and does what I want and I'm not worried with who thinks it is "cool".

Like if you want to be an AR15 Zapman, then you need to get a 6920 ASAP and 10 USGI mags and some 5.56 and learn to shoot and live your life.

Dont end up like these people with a gun hoard who bought it to wang measure with other squares. That is lame. In that case, no matter who 'wins', you all actually lose.

JM2C

I’m having a hard time figuring out your logic that if a guy builds his own AR, he’s Wang measuring loser. I don’t think I’ve seen a single Wang measuring post in the Custom Build thread. I see guys showing some pride and joy in what they built, but how in the world does that make them losers? Or hashtagging whatever’s? [emoji848]

Last week my 11 yr old told me he wanted us to build an AR together for one of his birthdays. Firefly, I can guaran-dang-tee you a thousand times over that when we experience that it will neither be a waste of energy nor a waste of time, but it will be a great memory. T may be the thing that really sparks his interest. And the day we go out and run the snot out of it to test it out, I believe will be a moment that he’s really proud of what he built.

A lot of solid dudes still build their AR’s. Just because they don’t go and buy the holy 6920 doesn’t make them anything except guys who like to build their own AR’s.

I’m not a fan of crap AR’s. Whether it’s bought or built, crap is crap. But as a good friend of mine pointed out to me one time, “Careful with the name calling or I’ll have to pull out my Del-Ton lower that I’ve got 50K+ rounds through, that has seen a couple of triggers and LPK parts replaced, but the lower is still running like a champ.”

I didn’t get the hashtag stuff, and it is entirely possible I misunderstood you.

In my mind, the only thing that separates me/mine from another guy at the range with his Colt, or BCM or whatever - are the roll marks, maybe the money. Oh maybe the amount of fun that was had. I have a lot more fun shopping parts and doing my builds in my shop than I would clicking with my mouse and adding to cart. But that’s time I consider well spent and something I enjoy.


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[Firefly]

What I said was guys who gun hoard or try to get the "latest and greatest" are losers. I've built a few ARs in my time. It can be fun until it becomes work. But there is a difference between gun collecting and gun hoarding. Like Collecting is you wanted it and even if nobody knows you have it; you are content. Gun Hoarding is guys trying to impress people with guns they never shoot

But if you are just starting out then just buy a proper rifle and put in the time.

Per hashtags, I mean the instagram bunch who buy/build this ridiculous crap and pimp it out on social media. It gets kinda lame and sad.

Like I've put together some cocky stuff that I only share with a few people just because I dont want to put my modest stuff out there. My SR25 build I make an exception for as I take pride in it. Same with my Avril Lavigne Era SR-15 I am cobbling that will have a URX II Rifle length and a few other niche details. A mid to late 2000s build.

I'm not against building anything. I'm just saying it is unnecessary if you just want to start out and shoot.

Vicious CB had a good post. 2007-08 you kinda had to roll your own if you wanted your rifle a certain way. But now, you can buy stuff pre-made that fills any niche from reputable people and the prices will never again be as cheap as they are now. I mean...Brownells is selling Colt lowers and BCM has no end of mid length uppers.

That is what I'm saying. Nothing personal, just being real

[MegademiC]

I believe the time is coming up for a first AR build. Probably will not have time until September to begin building, but I am ready to start looking for parts.

I am looking for a fairly reliable end result that can shoot steel case ammo consistently, the latter being the reason for a build in the first place. Don't want to mess up a nice AR with potentiality damaging ammo, but would also like to make use of cheap Tula and Wolf.

Are there any kits or manufactures to avoid? Which ones to buy?

Any and all advise would be greatly appreciated!

If this is your first AR, i highly recommend buying a basic gun (colt 6970 or similar), getting used to how everything works together, figure out what you want and plan a build after you run a case or two of ammo through it. Knowing how everything works helps build it IMO.

If its not your first AR, just first build, buy decent tools, and find correct torque specs (most have been posted here at some point), and have fun. Just know it likely wont be a cost saver, but it is fun. If you want a blaster, you’ll likely end up with something similar to a bcm 16” midlength with a rail, just a guess.

IME white oak makes good upper parts kits for a decent price (all the small parts).
Sionics lower parts kit with enhanced trigger will be nice for a blaster build as well.
Bcg, bcm has never let me down, but sionics looks nice if you want something silver(np3).
And dont skimp on a barrel.

[RobertTheTexan]

I'm not against building anything. I'm just saying it is unnecessary if you just want to start out and shoot.


That is what I'm saying. Nothing personal, just being real

I read you 5x5. Thanks for clarifying. :)


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[Outlander Systems]

I know a guy that was in AFG in '01, has stacked more bodies than cancer, and has an Olympic Arms with well north of 20k through it.

Just sayin'.


I’m having a hard time figuring out your logic that if a guy builds his own AR, he’s Wang measuring loser. I don’t think I’ve seen a single Wang measuring post in the Custom Build thread. I see guys showing some pride and joy in what they built, but how in the world does that make them losers? Or hashtagging whatever’s? [emoji848]

Last week my 11 yr old told me he wanted us to build an AR together for one of his birthdays. Firefly, I can guaran-dang-tee you a thousand times over that when we experience that it will neither be a waste of energy nor a waste of time, but it will be a great memory. T may be the thing that really sparks his interest. And the day we go out and run the snot out of it to test it out, I believe will be a moment that he’s really proud of what he built.

A lot of solid dudes still build their AR’s. Just because they don’t go and buy the holy 6920 doesn’t make them anything except guys who like to build their own AR’s.

I’m not a fan of crap AR’s. Whether it’s bought or built, crap is crap. But as a good friend of mine pointed out to me one time, “Careful with the name calling or I’ll have to pull out my Del-Ton lower that I’ve got 50K+ rounds through, that has seen a couple of triggers and LPK parts replaced, but the lower is still running like a champ.”

I didn’t get the hashtag stuff, and it is entirely possible I misunderstood you.

In my mind, the only thing that separates me/mine from another guy at the range with his Colt, or BCM or whatever - are the roll marks, maybe the money. Oh maybe the amount of fun that was had. I have a lot more fun shopping parts and doing my builds in my shop than I would clicking with my mouse and adding to cart. But that’s time I consider well spent and something I enjoy.


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[CPM]

I was confused as he said he wanted a "beater" gun to shoot steel case- which in my mind is unnecessary if you already have a quality rifle and therefore an invalid reason to build.

[heavygunner8]

I'll throw this out there as someone who does this for a living.

A. In this current market I don't recommend building anything unless there is a SPECIFIC need do so.

B. In order to CORRECTLY build an AR you need tools. Yeah, you can Youtube it if you want. But, it's not something I recommend.

C. Setting some kind of bullshit artificial budget leads to getting crap. Since you only stated it's your first AR and didn't expand on your knowledge level, I would recommend a solid basic gun first.

I lucked out by building a $4500 noveske a month back ($2500 for the gun, and $2000 for the scope). It shoots like a dream and I don't regret it one bit. But holy hell, first time building an AR and literally learning with $2500 dollars worth of parts nearly gave me an anxiety attack. But in all seriousness, I think the experience was worth it, it was most fun experience I've had, spending that whole day, and most of the night slowly piecing everything together, and learning the ins and outs through youtube. Trial by fire, I'd call it.

[bmwsoldatone]

I lucked out by building a $4500 noveske a month back ($2500 for the gun, and $2000 for the scope). It shoots like a dream and I don't regret it one bit. But holy hell, first time building an AR and literally learning with $2500 dollars worth of parts nearly gave me an anxiety attack. But in all seriousness, I think the experience was worth it, it was most fun experience I've had, spending that whole day, and most of the night slowly piecing everything together, and learning the ins and outs through youtube. Trial by fire, I'd call it.

Holy smokes! 4500? Was that in us dollars? For that price it should shoot like a dream.
Great job btw!


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[bmwsoldatone]

I believe the time is coming up for a first AR build.

I think it is pretty clear that you want to build an AR as some form of self-actualization. Unlike others on the board, I'm not going to try to tell you that what you want to do is wrong, or low IQ. I will, however, forewarn you that you will likely spend more putting together a reliable range gun than you would likely spend buying a comparable Colt, the most common example being a 6920.

I suggest buying any freaking lower you want, as long as it is machined from a 7075-T6 forging. Right now I think Sionics has one of the hottest deals, a blemished complete lower assembly for 199.95 - http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/45-clearance It has their enhanced mil-spec trigger which most folks say are pretty nice.

If you are wanting to absolutely go budget Anderson lowers can be had for 39.95 and Aero Precision lowers can be had for 79.95 at Aim Surplus.

As far as I'm concerned the best trigger for under 100.00 is the LaRue Tactical MBT-25 for 99.95 (if you are willing to wait - read the options) https://www.larue.com/products/larue-tactical-mbt-2s-trigger/

Everyone has their opinions on LPK's, if you get the Sionics lower, you won't have to worry. ALG sells an LPK w/o grip and FCG for 49.00; Sionics has the same deal, their Lower Parts Kit - Builder, for 39.00 (add 10.00 for an Ambi Safety) http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/28-lower-receiver-parts

Grips - to each his own, I prefer B5 Systems Type 23.

Receiver extensions, I'm meh as long as they are mil-spec. Unless you want an A5 - mine is BCM.

The accuracy of the AR lies in the trigger, the upper receiver and the barrel. For uppers I use BCM blems exclusively. Right now they are 59.95 https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Upper-Receiver-Assembly-M4-Flat-Top-demo-p/flat%20top%20-upper%20-m4%20demo.htm

For barrels, I've only used Green Mountain Barrels http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/ar-15-m16-m4-rifle-barrels/ (they are an OEM suppler to several well-respected companies) or Ballistic Advantage 223 Wylde Premium Series, Hanson Profile.

For rails I use ALG EMR's https://algdefense.com/rails.html (I always get the Geissele Carbon Steel gas block with the rail https://algdefense.com/accessories/ar-15/gas-blocks.html)

Stocks I like either the B5 SOPMOD or the EXos Ti-7.

Slings - Sheriff of Baghdad B-Sling. I buy the Mash hook models and have my darling wife replace the mash hook with a QD sling swivel https://sobtactical.com/store/slings/

I have never, ever, ever, built one as cheap as I could buy a comparable rifle. But it is fun.

ETA - the LaRue kits come pretty close, I have 1091.00 (minus sights) in my 6.5 Grendel - best buy I ever made.

Thats good advice! Even if you dont like that part or this part. Or must have and only have this part.
Very open response!


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[justin_247]

It's cheaper to buy in this market than it is to build. Period. Evidence: Colt Trooper for $729.
https://gunprime.com/product/colt-m4-carbine-5-56-16-black-30rd-le6920-ar-15/

BUT, if you insist, here's my suggestion for a first build:

This receiver (Aero Precision): $50
http://www.e-arms.com/aero-precision-ar-15-stripped-lower-receiver-gen-2-anodized-black/

This lower receiver parts and stock kit (Sionics): $110
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/lower-receiver-parts/95-lower-receiver-build-kit.html

This BCG (Sionics): $130
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/bolt-carrier-group-components/130-bolt-carrier-group-np3-coated-carrier-bolt-and-cam-pin.html

This upper receiver group (BCM): $439
https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw.htm

Lower receiver builders kit (RifleGear): $45

That's $774. Add your choice of stock, charging handle, rear iron sight, drop-in handguard, and sling, and you have a rock solid AR. But it has less features and accessories than what you already would have if you had purchased the Trooper.

[grizzman]

That's a good price for a 6920, but it's not a Trooper (LE6920-R).

I agree with those that have already said that this isn't the time to assemble one unless what is desired isn't available in factory form.

[Toyoland66]

Just because you want to shoot cheap steel case doesn’t mean you have to build/ buy a beater. The cost of ammo you will shoot before a gun is wore out will far exceed the cost of the gun whether you are shooting steel or brass.

Just buy a duty grade chrome lined whatever

[militarymoron]

Last week my 11 yr old told me he wanted us to build an AR together for one of his birthdays.

I'm building a .22LR AR pistol for my 10-year old right now (with him watching) - from a mixture of new and old parts I already had on hand. The full-length .22LR AR rifle is a bit heavy/long for him to shoot offhand, so I wanted to build something more in proportion to him.

[Diamondback]

I'm building a .22LR AR pistol for my 10-year old right now (with him watching) - from a mixture of new and old parts I already had on hand. The full-length .22LR AR rifle is a bit heavy/long for him to shoot offhand, so I wanted to build something more in proportion to him.

Mind sharing the part list when you're done on the new items? I was just thinking about .22 Pistol as a raison d'etre for the Cheap Crappy Plinker Pistol Kit to "first build" lowers and EPL's with...

[militarymoron]

Mind sharing the part list when you're done on the new items? I was just thinking about .22 Pistol as a raison d'etre for the Cheap Crappy Plinker Pistol Kit to "first build" lowers and EPL's with...

(Start thread drift)
Sure - I'm probably going to post something in the custom build section (or at least a short article on my site) when I'm done. I'm still waiting on one more part - a pistol shell deflector/ejection port cover kit.

Old parts:

80% lower I hadn't built up yet
BCM upper receiver
FDC EMR-A extended ambi mag release (for his short fingers)
BCM PNT trigger/hammer assy/LPK (I don't like light triggers for .22LR - found them less reliable)
BAD-ASS ambi safety (kid is a lefty like me)
BCM A44 ambi charging handle
Larue Iron dot RDS (Burris Fastfire in Larue mount)
BCM receiver end plate
SA 'Accubrake' I've had sitting in my parts box for over 20 years


New parts:

CMMG 9.2" .22LR barrel and bolt kit
BCM pistol receiver extension
SB tactical SOB brace
9" BCM MCMR MLOK handguard
BCM M-Lok rail covers and KAG hand stop
PTS sights (these are airsoft sights made by the same company that made Magpul PTS polymer sights - gifted by a buddy)
PTS pistol grip (same as above)
10-round mags because my son isn't paying for ammo yet. The 25's go kinda quick


https://i.imgur.com/PA7IagK.jpg

(End thread drift)

[26 Inf]

This BCG (Sionics): $130
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/bolt-carrier-group-components/130-bolt-carrier-group-np3-coated-carrier-bolt-and-cam-pin.html


I noticed I left out a BCG. Aside from a couple of Brownell's kits I bough just to say I had 'completely' assembled my first couple rifles, I'm pretty much on the line with Toolcraft. If you recall not to long ago everyone was absolutely gaga over buying the Toolcraft cage marked BCG's as they were the ones supplied with the .mil rebuild kits.

I'm not dissing the Sionics BCG, but I'd save $60.00 and buy this one: http://www.monmouthreloading.com/shop/ar15-toolcraft-black-nitride-bcg/ (this one is not listed as HP tested)

I think that there needs to be a somewhat standard glossary for the process involved in putting an AR together. The words I use to describe the process may differ from the ones others would choose, but I have a general idea of four groups:

1. To me 'manufacture' means that you make parts and put those parts together. Granted, there are very few firearms mfgrs that make ALL their parts in house, but their a quite mfgrs in the AR market that are actually assemblers.

2. To me 'assembler' means the entity buys individual pieces and parts from OEM suppliers and assemble them into a complete unit. Notice I said 'individual pieces and parts' - if you are buying BCG's, LPK's and FCG's in little packages your are not an 'assembler' you are a 'builder'.

3. To me the 'builders' are classified into two groups 'builders' and 'component builders' (I'm not happy with that term, but cant think of a better one). A builder is the guy who buys a bare lower and upper, a BCG, a LPK, a FCG, a barrel, an RE, a free floatr tube (or FSB and handguards), etc. and puts them together into a complete rifle. The primary difference between a 'builder' and an 'assembler' is that the builder buys sub assemblies or parts kits already selected/put together for them, while the 'assembler' does the same thing from bins of individual parts they have specced and purchased form OEM mfgrs.

4. In my view 'component builders' are are those who buy completed upper and/or lower assemblies and merely mate them together. I recently 'component built' a carbine for my grandson using one of the complete Colt lowers that Brownell's was selling. I put together the upper using a BCM upper receiver, a Green Mount 16" M4 barrel with FSB, Magpul handguards and a Toolcraft BCG. To me, that was more of a 'component build' then a 'build.'

The reason I chose to mount the soap box on this subject is that very often it takes a couple of posts to completely discern what a person, such as the OP in this thread, means when they post 'I want to do a build.'

JMO, YMMV.

[justin_247]

I noticed I left out a BCG. Aside from a couple of Brownell's kits I bough just to say I had 'completely' assembled my first couple rifles, I'm pretty much on the line with Toolcraft. If you recall not to long ago everyone was absolutely gaga over buying the Toolcraft cage marked BCG's as they were the ones supplied with the .mil rebuild kits.

I'm not dissing the Sionics BCG, but I'd save $60.00 and buy this one: http://www.monmouthreloading.com/shop/ar15-toolcraft-black-nitride-bcg/ (this one is not listed as HP tested)

After a few thousand rounds, definitely let us know how it works out for you. I'd love to be able to recommend a BCG for that price.

[26 Inf]

(Start thread drift)
Sure - I'm probably going to post something in the custom build section (or at least a short article on my site) when I'm done. I'm still waiting on one more part - a pistol shell deflector/ejection port cover kit.

Old parts:

80% lower I hadn't built up yet
BCM upper receiver
FDC EMR-A extended ambi mag release (for his short fingers)
BCM PNT trigger/hammer assy/LPK (I don't like light triggers for .22LR - found them less reliable)
BAD-ASS ambi safety (kid is a lefty like me)
BCM A44 ambi charging handle
Larue Iron dot RDS (Burris Fastfire in Larue mount)
BCM receiver end plate
SA 'Accubrake' I've had sitting in my parts box for over 20 years


New parts:

CMMG 9.2" .22LR barrel and bolt kit
BCM pistol receiver extension
SB tactical SOB brace
9" BCM MCMR MLOK handguard
BCM M-Lok rail covers and KAG hand stop
PTS sights (these are airsoft sights made by the same company that made Magpul PTS polymer sights - gifted by a buddy)
PTS pistol grip (same as above)
10-round mags because my son isn't paying for ammo yet. The 25's go kinda quick


(End thread drift)

If I could suggest one addition it would be a BETTER-MAG. I have one and it is lights out great. It allows you to use S&W mags which are much, much, easier to load, the mag drops free (most of the time) and the bolt locks to the rear (most of the time).

https://www.redi-mag.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=52

It is pretty easy to source the M&P mags, Midway, CTD, Cabelas, Academy, etc. usually have them.

My only 'complaint' is that I had purchased a bunch of Black Dog mags and they don't work with the BETTER-MAG inserted. So I load them up at home when I'm bored and have some time, shoot them first and the insert the BETTER-MAG and use my S&W mags.

[militarymoron]

If I could suggest one addition it would be a BETTER-MAG. I have one and it is lights out great. It allows you to use S&W mags which are much, much, easier to load, the mag drops free (most of the time) and the bolt locks to the rear (most of the time).

https://www.redi-mag.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=52

It is pretty easy to source the M&P mags, Midway, CTD, Cabelas, Academy, etc. usually have them.

My only 'complaint' is that I had purchased a bunch of Black Dog mags and they don't work with the BETTER-MAG inserted. So I load them up at home when I'm bored and have some time, shoot them first and the insert the BETTER-MAG and use my S&W mags.

Thanks for the suggestion - I had actually run across those before, but since I already had a lot of the black dog machine mags, I passed on it. It's be nice to have the bolt lock back and function, I agree. I use the Christie's Products loader for my BDM mags, so loading isn't an issue.

[Hulkstr8]

The main purpose of this build would be a cheap "blaster." I plan on using steel ammo in this one. Abuse is the word that comes to mind.

Good luck on trying to build a cheap AR.

Edit:

I built 3 (my first "builds" because I built them all at once) in 2017. Sold 1(my favorite) in Jan 2018 just because some guy offered me what I had in it. I had mixed feelings about selling it but now feel lucky. I also think the active, vocal group on this forum knows that I don't think you should build an AR anymore. It didn't save me money. It won't have the resale value (and I used to be of the mindset that I would never sell any of my guns, but I've matured into what seems to be a right of passage for gun owners). It will not have the sticker value reliability to yourself or anybody at the range.

That beings said, I learned alot. Made some friends along the way. I still want to take an Armorer's Course from IG or Ned Christensen.

My 2 cents on gun parts are: No LaRue parts. I like quad rails and idc what people think. Lighter isn't necessarily "better." Use a good amount of Aeroshell. Geissele triggers are nice, but unless I have a task specific function I will be using a Sionics or SOLGW trigger.