View Full Version : Left Wing Press tries to destroy average citizens who challenge Obama
variablebinary
10-17-08, 10:40
Surreal. You ask Obama a legit question, and you can expect the full weight of the press to come down on you. Is this is even America anymore?
http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=1&subcatid=2&threadid=1631211
So let me understand this...
Ayers…Wright…Pfleger...Rezko…ACORN…Nothing to see here, move along, these arent the droids you are looking for...
Joe the Plumber...A menace to society, he must be vetted to extremes so the public can be fully informed of his evil, Bush loving, right wing agenda. How dare he even look at Obama. He is unwashed and unworthy of challenging the Messiah...
Total Bullshit...
I'd comment, but I don't want to go to "Happy Fun Citizen Education Camp" to learn about our glorious leader.
Doesn't it blow your ****ing mind? Sorry for the language but I'm so enraged by this entire process. People CRUCIFY Palin for a pregnant teenager, TRASH through this innocent man's life who only had a question for Obama AND THEN!!!! Make us the assholes for pointing out things like Wright, Ayers, ACORN etc.............I'm stopping now................ :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Don't stop, keep going! Let us know how you really feel!
Any and all accusations of left wing bias in the media/entertainment industry can no longer be denied. The major of major media outlets, hollywood, etc. have been outright campaigning for the guy, without any shame, apologies, or regrets.
Even Saturday Night Live, always a liberal centerpiece, has gone so far as to make a separate Thursday night show immediate after NBC's most popular show, that is focused on on political sketches. Mostly mocking McCain/Palin, it seems.
Smoke and mirrors. The reality we're presented through the media, and actual reality, are so drastically different this year that it's sickening -- but perception becomes reality, and they're stealing the election! Yet ironically if McCain were to win, he'll be accused of stealing it!
The whole thing just sickitates me. :mad:
I am hoping for some kind of backlash. The guy asked a very legit question, and now he's being portrayed as a liar and fraud. I agree with Variable- it's utter BS.
Remember guys, 1A is for the left only. Academics (especially the radicals), CAIR, Code Pink etc all enjoy 1A. People on the right? Not so much.
Here's a good example:
Candidates receive different lines of questioning from late-night hosts (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/17/mccain-biden-earn-different-treatment-late-night-appearances/)
Here's a good example:
Candidates receive different lines of questioning from late-night hosts (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/17/mccain-biden-earn-different-treatment-late-night-appearances/)
I think this is a valid point. However, to Leno's credit, I think he is just in general less of a D-bag than letterman. I would venture to guess that Leno is voting for McCain regardless of what his front is on TV. Nothing other than perception of Leno as a man makes me believe that. I could be completely wrong.
I think this is a valid point. However, to Leno's credit, I think he is just in general less of a D-bag than letterman. I would venture to guess that Leno is voting for McCain regardless of what his front is on TV. Nothing other than perception of Leno as a man makes me believe that. I could be completely wrong.
I was going to make a similar observation, because Letterman really comes across as a colossal asshat. I generally don't watch him but I have caught him being outright hostile (as opposed to going for the laughs) towards "us". Leno seems to be more about just getting a laugh at whatever's topical.
I would be interested to see a direct comparison of Letterman's questions to Obama vs. to McCain, and the same with Leno, as I think it would be more telling.
citizensoldier16
10-17-08, 16:50
Quote from the article:
"“It’s not that I want to punish your success, I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you – that they’ve got the chance at success too,” Obama told Wurzelbacher. “I think that when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”"
Isn't that COMMUNISM?!?!
I was going to make a similar observation, because Letterman really comes across as a colossal asshat. I generally don't watch him but I have caught him being outright hostile (as opposed to going for the laughs) towards "us". Leno seems to be more about just getting a laugh at whatever's topical.
I would be interested to see a direct comparison of Letterman's questions to Obama vs. to McCain, and the same with Leno, as I think it would be more telling.
Agree. We are on the same page.
John_Wayne777
10-17-08, 17:08
Anyone who finds it incongruous that the mainstream press has expended more energy reporting the mothership of Sarah Palin's baby and the background of Joe the plumber than they have exploring the past of Barak Obama is a racist and a wifebeater.
....and they also molest children.
...not the ones Obama supported legislation to kill, mind you, but you get the point.
and there is still only a couple of points between McCain and Obama. That is very telling for me.
Quote from the article:
"“It’s not that I want to punish your success, I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you – that they’ve got the chance at success too,” Obama told Wurzelbacher. “I think that when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”"
Isn't that COMMUNISM?!?!
It was in the High School I went to.
Bob
KintlaLake
10-18-08, 13:31
Mr. Samuel Joseph "Joe the Plumber" Wurzelbacher is a tool.
He volunteered to be a tool when he engaged Sen. Obama in front of the cameras. The Obama-Biden campaign, owing to Sen. Obama's "spread the wealth" gaffe, wisely chose not to exploit the encounter.
Joe then inadvertently became a tool of McCain-Palin, when Sen. McCain chose to make him the fulcrum of his criticism of Sen. Obama's tax plan during Wednesday's debate.
RIF: It was outrageously rash (read "stupid") of McCain-Palin to call attention to Mr. Wurzelbacher without thoroughly researching his background. The campaign wouldn't have done so for Mr. Wurzelbacher's sake, certainly, but it should've done more to protect Sen. McCain.
So the media were able to learn in an hour what McCain-Palin didn't bother to look into. Everybody wants the media to dig up the truth about the candidates, and suddenly we want them to make an exception for a candidate's tool?
It's like finding out your best friend married a hooker, then blaming the beer.
The media will keep doing what they do. Since that was no secret to Mr. Wurzelbacher and McCain-Palin, that means that a) Mr. Wurzelbacher is still a tool, and b) the McCain-Palin campaign makes the Keystone Cops look like a synchronized-swimming team.
Mr. Samuel Joseph "Joe the Plumber" Wurzelbacher is a tool.
He volunteered to be a tool when he engaged Sen. Obama in front of the cameras. The Obama-Biden campaign, owing to Sen. Obama's "spread the wealth" gaffe, wisely chose not to exploit the encounter.
Joe then inadvertently became a tool of McCain-Palin, when Sen. McCain chose to make him the fulcrum of his criticism of Sen. Obama's tax plan during Wednesday's debate.
RIF: It was outrageously rash (read "stupid") of McCain-Palin to call attention to Mr. Wurzelbacher without thoroughly researching his background. The campaign wouldn't have done so for Mr. Wurzelbacher's sake, certainly, but it should've done more to protect Sen. McCain.
So the media were able to learn in an hour what McCain-Palin didn't bother to look into. Everybody wants the media to dig up the truth about the candidates, and suddenly we want them to make an exception for a candidate's tool?
It's like finding out your best friend married a hooker, then blaming the beer.
The media will keep doing what they do. Since that was no secret to Mr. Wurzelbacher and McCain-Palin, that means that a) Mr. Wurzelbacher is still a tool, and b) the McCain-Paling campaign makes the Keystone Cops look like a synchronized-swimming team.
From my recollection Joe didn't CHOOSE to do be or do anything other than a citizen asking a question about a candidates policies.................. Care to educate me on things I have obviously missed?
KintlaLake
10-18-08, 13:45
From my recollection Joe didn't CHOOSE to do be or do anything other than a citizen asking a question about a candidates policies.................. Care to educate me on things I have obviously missed?
Sure. :) He could've gotten the same answer from Sen. Obama's website, literature or myriad other sources, but he chose to do it in public, in front of cameras and microphones. I'm not saying he didn't have the right to do so, but it wasn't exactly a private moment, y'know?
We would've heard virtually nothing more about (or from) Mr. Wurzelbacher had Sen. McCain not made him a poster boy -- which wasn't Mr. Wurzelbacher's fault, but the the sequence of events started with him.
Sorry but Joe is not a tool. Regardless of Joe's past, legitimacy of being a plumber, or being a registered voter he asked a good question and got the answer that showed off one of BO's true intentions. How anyone could be so daft as to call out Joe's character only trying to disguise the fact that BO is not going to give us change that we want or need is beyond me. If the question is valid and the answer is legitimate it doesn't matter who asked it and the Obamanation can't deal with the consequences. :)
Sure. :) He could've gotten the same answer from Sen. Obama's website, literature or myriad other sources, but he chose to do it in public, in front of cameras and microphones. I'm not saying he didn't have the right to do so, but it wasn't exactly a private moment, y'know?
We would've heard virtually nothing more about (or from) Mr. Wurzelbacher had Sen. McCain not made him a poster boy -- which wasn't Mr. Wurzelbacher's fault, but the the sequence of events started with him.
Very well put. He thought he had Obama in a 'gotcha' moment and it ultimately backfired on him. McCain tried to exploit him before the media did.
KintlaLake
10-18-08, 13:59
How anyone could be so daft as to call out Joe's character...
Well, the first thing that occurs to me is that if I owed the State of Ohio $1,800+ in back taxes, I wouldn't step in front of the media and ask a presidential candidate how his tax policy would affect me. I'm just sayin'... :rolleyes:
Mr. Wurzelbacher's character is what it is, and he's responsible for it -- I make no judgment. And again, we probably wouldn't have heard a word about it if McCain-Palin had done its job.
Sure. :) He could've gotten the same answer from Sen. Obama's website, literature or myriad other sources, but he chose to do it in public, in front of cameras and microphones. I'm not saying he didn't have the right to do so, but it wasn't exactly a private moment, y'know?
We would've heard virtually nothing more about (or from) Mr. Wurzelbacher had Sen. McCain not made him a poster boy -- which wasn't Mr. Wurzelbacher's fault, but the the sequence of events started with him.
So the fear of public skewering should dictate where and how loudly we voice legitimate concerns for our country? Sounds like more perpetuation of the politically correct and liberal system we have going on here. If more people would voice there concerns loudly in public forums then perhaps we might be able to stem the tide of horse shit going on here. People are damn near petrified to admit to being McCain supporters due to the racist stigma that is almost immediately attached. Submitting to that is NOT the answer.
Dealing in facts: Did it start with him? Sure but I highly doubt he knew what was going to come from it and to call him a "tool", whether by means of the insult or an actual "tool" of someones campaign, is simpleminded. Didn't he say/tell them to stop bringing his name up? That's like blaming the mother of a child for giving birth after the child commits murder...........Similar logic. I'm on the same page as you most times but this time I personally feel you've missed the mark.
Very well put. He thought he had Obama in a 'gotcha' moment and it ultimately backfired on him. McCain tried to exploit him before the media did.
Are you saying Joe thought he had him in a "gotcha" moment? If so, Jesus F... The man's a plumber not a political strategist. To spot him that much credit for being politically savvy is crazy...... Sometimes and orange is just an orange.
Well, the first thing that occurs to me is that if I owed the State of Ohio $1,800+ in back taxes, I wouldn't step in front of the media and ask a presidential candidate how his tax policy would affect me. I'm just sayin'... :rolleyes:
Mr. Wurzelbacher's character is what it is, and he's responsible for it -- I make no judgment. And again, we probably wouldn't have heard a word about it if McCain-Palin had done its job.
....The first part, while I understand where you are coming from, lacks understanding of certain issues pertaining to small business that is not appropriate to discuss here. Showing that you have presence of mind to evaluate yourself before making a statement however is what more people should be doing and I commend you for stating that.
Joe is responsible for his character but make sure you are in fact judging character and not using misrepresented facts about his life to pass judgment such as labeling him a tool.
McCain campaign should have left this man alone and def. investigated what COULD have been construed by the press as negative before making him a poster boy. We completely agree there. Bad move.
KintlaLake
10-18-08, 14:28
Showing that you have presence of mind to evaluate yourself before making a statement however is what more people should be doing...
McCain campaign should have left this man alone and def. investigated what COULD have been construed by the press as negative before making him a poster boy.
Those are the important points. The rest of that stuff is just me talkin'. :D
Responsibility is an attitude. What I'm saying about Mr. Wurzelbacher being a "tool" reflects both that attitude and my experience. I've been a public figure and I've represented public figures, and I've been responsible for certain things appearing in the media that were 100% true and "innocent," but that started cascade reactions that came back to bite me. And I became a tool.
"Intent," as a prosecutor might say, "follows the bullet." :cool:
Those are the important points. The rest of that stuff is just me talkin'. :D
Your AND me talking. Which is healthy. :)
Responsibility is an attitude. What I'm saying about Mr. Wurzelbacher being a "tool" reflects both that attitude and my experience. I've been a public figure and I've represented public figures, and I've been responsible for certain things appearing in the media that were 100% true and "innocent," but that started cascade reactions that came back to bite me. And I became a tool.
And that is what is wrong here. Believe when I say I completely understand what you are talking about. I really do. The process and result of those situations are part of the media/terminal cancer that preys on the minds of the simple. The wrongful classification of well intentioned individuals, although excepted today, doesn't change the reality that it's wrong and shouldn't be happening.
Many battles to be chosen in life... Not sure why I choose this one.. :cool:
KintlaLake
10-18-08, 14:47
And that is what is wrong here.
It's definitely one result of a free press -- a blessing or a curse, depending. In any case (and with apologies to Ben Franklin), I've always found it futile to pick a fight with anyone who buys ink by the barrel. :D
It's definitely one result of a free press -- a blessing or a curse, depending. In any case (and with apologies to Ben Franklin), I've always found it futile to pick a fight with anyone who buys ink by the barrel. :D
LOL that's great.
Just some food for thought here; Keeping in mind that Osamabama knocked on Wurzelbacher's door, what if the Osamabama camp found this guy beforehand knowing full well that he had some "issues", (even a distant relationship with charles Keating of "the Keating Five" fame) and then if he asked him the wrong question(s), they could whack him, verbally of course, which is what happened. After all, I'm sure someone in Osamabama's camp can dig up information on anybody they choose.
Isn't it odd that Osamabama just happened to be in this guy's neighborhood and he just randomly knocked on THIS guy's door and Joe just happened to be a distant relation to Keating? This whole thing looks to be a little more than random.
John_Wayne777
10-18-08, 16:00
I find it incredibly interesting that the press has spent more time looking into the sex life of Sarah Palin's daughter and looking into the life of Joe the Plumber than they have looking into the past of Barak Obama.
BigJim #1-8
10-18-08, 16:05
Joe the plumber isn't the issue.
b husseins socialist plan to "spread the wealth around" is the issue.
liberal press is attacking JTP to dampen the b hussein soc/lib comment.
b hussein is NOT an option
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!!!
KintlaLake
10-18-08, 16:17
Just some food for thought here; Keeping in mind that Osamabama knocked on Wurzelbacher's door, what if the Osamabama camp found this guy beforehand knowing full well that he had some "issues", (even a distant relationship with charles Keating of "the Keating Five" fame) and then if he asked him the wrong question(s), they could whack him, verbally of course, which is what happened. After all, I'm sure someone in Osamabama's camp can dig up information on anybody they choose.
Isn't it odd that Osamabama just happened to be in this guy's neighborhood and he just randomly knocked on THIS guy's door and Joe just happened to be a distant relation to Keating? This whole thing looks to be a little more than random.
That's a nice shirt you're wearing today, by the way.
:rolleyes:
Couple things about Joe the plumber. Anyone and I mean anyone can owe back taxes and or owe the IRS money from a penalty and not even know it. You think all is filed just fine and then find out (years later) that you owe the man some money. It can happen to anyone so I do not look down on him for that. ;)
I do not know much about being a plumber or even if you need a special license to do it, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that he most likely does not need one (as he does not own his own plumbing business). So again, I am not sure what the big deal is about that.
The part that gets me the most in all of this is comments that Obama and Biden keep making that the majority of small business's do not make over $250K a year. They want people to believe that they are talking about small business owners taking home $250 (NET). WRONG! What they are talking about is small business's having $250K in GROSS profits! As a VERY small business owner, having $250K in gross profits is not a lot! I am willing to bet that the MAJORITY of small business's in this country gross that with ease.
I already pay 35% in taxes, if Obama gets in, who knows what it will be. One thing is for sure, I will not be picking up any employees (as I couldn't afford too). :mad:
C4
Couple things about Joe the plumber. Anyone and I mean anyone can owe back taxes and or owe the IRS money from a penalty and not even know it. You think all is filed just fine and then find out (years later) that you owe the man some money. It can happen to anyone so I do not look down on him for that. ;)
That's partially what I was talking about when I said there were some details about small business that perhaps some here don't know about.
I do not know much about being a plumber or even if you need a special license to do it, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that he most likely does not need one (as he does not own his own plumbing business). So again, I am not sure what the big deal is about that.
Can't comment cause I don't know.
The part that gets me the most in all of this is comments that Obama and Biden keep making that the majority of small business's do not make over $250K a year. They want people to believe that they are talking about small business owners taking home $250 (NET). WRONG! What they are talking about is small business's having $250K in GROSS profits! As a VERY small business owner, having $250K in gross profits is not a lot! I am willing to bet that the MAJORITY of small business's in this country gross that with ease.
Yup.
I already pay 35% in taxes, if Obama gets in, who knows what it will be. One thing is for sure, I will not be picking up any employees (as I couldn't afford too). :mad:
C4
Same + some in certain cases.
And you NEED employees! LOL. If I still lived in Ohio I would help you out in return for some merchandise and know how. :D
That's partially what I was talking about when I said there were some details about small business that perhaps some here don't know about.
Can't comment cause I don't know.
Yup.
Same + some in certain cases.
And you NEED employees! LOL. If I still lived in Ohio I would help you out in return for some merchandise and know how. :D
I would love to have 10 employees. Just give me Irelands business tax rate of 11% and I would higher some!
C4
KintlaLake
10-18-08, 17:06
...some details about small business that perhaps some here don't know about.
Big business, small business, individual...I acknowledge that a tax authority will make a determination before informing the taxpayer. (Natch.) Only bureaucratic logic [sic] rules how much time passes before the notice goes out.
Been there (http://kintlalake.blogspot.com/2008/07/taxing-experience.html). ;)
If there's a lien-on-property, however, that's another story. Reportedly that's the case with Mr. Wurzelbacher.
None of us knows firsthand what the real story is here.
Big business, small business, individual...I acknowledge that a tax authority will make a determination before informing the taxpayer. (Natch.) Only bureaucratic logic [sic] rules how much time passes before the notice goes out.
Been there (http://kintlalake.blogspot.com/2008/07/taxing-experience.html). ;)
If there's a lien-on-property, however, that's another story. Reportedly that's the case with Mr. Wurzelbacher.
None of us knows firsthand what the real story is here.
That comment wasn't directed at you. Reading your blog now. Thanks for the link. :)
Gutshot John
10-18-08, 19:08
Funny that everyone seems to be missing the salient point here:
Obama is running for President of ALL Americans. He's not running for President just of liberal Democrats. The country he may govern will CERTAINLY have more than a few Republicans some (heaven forbid) with tax liens. Many might even disagree with his policies. Obama showed up at these people's houses... what a crime that one of the unwashed Republicans there should challenge him with a question.
ALL Americans have a constitutional right to question our officials without being "vetted" by the press as a fine upstanding citizen.
That the media is going apeshit to try to discredit him misses the point...again, but is more than a little telling about his meaning.
That some otherwise intelligent people here seem to buy into their line of stupidity is more than a little disconcerting.
PS. His freudian slip of "spreading the wealth around" is not the function of the tax system.
KintlaLake
10-18-08, 19:21
ALL Americans have a constitutional right to question our officials without being "vetted" by the press as a fine upstanding citizen.
I'm gonna write my congressman about that one. :rolleyes: With any luck, he won't remember that the First Amendment applies to the press...
Gutshot John
10-18-08, 19:23
I'm gonna write my congressman about that one. :rolleyes: With any luck, he won't remember that the First Amendment applies to the press...
Excuse me? :confused:
I presume you're trying to use irony, but it's apparently lost on me.
Perhaps you should dumb it down a bit and just speak plainly.
RogerinTPA
10-18-08, 19:24
Yeah it is funny how they attack Palin, her kid and now joe the plumber and now most of mainstream media, for the exception of FOX News, has given ACORN a pass for fraud and trying to F up the voter registration process.
That some otherwise intelligent people here seem to buy into their line of stupidity is more than a little disconcerting.
The fact that we're discussing Joe Plumber's background and personal problems instead of Obama's plan to forcibly redistribute wealth from those who earned it to those who didn't, means the media ruse has worked...
Stealing is stealing, even if it's from people who can "afford" it.
KintlaLake
10-18-08, 19:38
Excuse me? :confused:
I presume you're using irony, but it's lost on me.
Perhaps you should dumb it down a bit.
I know you don't need me to dumb anything down, GSJ. ;) I will, however, break it down.
Citizen asks question, press overhears, press doesn't know citizen, press finds out about citizen -- and then, what, the press doesn't publish what it knows because citizen has said "constitutional right"?
Again, the blame for this PR cluster lands at the feet of the McCain-Palin campaign -- not on the free press or Mr. Wurzelbacher.
Gutshot John
10-18-08, 19:46
Citizen asks question, press overhears, press doesn't know citizen, press finds out about citizen -- and then, what, the press doesn't publish what it knows because citizen has said "constitutional right"?
I thought that was what you were saying, but I wanted to be sure since it disturbed me.
There are two flawed assumptions in your reasoning:
1. The Press didn't just "know", it had to go digging for what they found.
2. That they regularly go digging into the lives of people who ask Presidential candidates questions.
Neither assumption holds true. So why did they go digging if not to discredit the man? Obviously he posed a threat to Obama.
All that being said...
Let me get this straight...you really think that any citizen who asks a question of a Presidential candidate is subject to having his life dug into and exposed to the public?
You don't think this might have a chilling effect on our democracy by making people hesitant to show up at campaign events etc, let alone speak or bother to ask a question that isn't revolting in its obsequiousness?
The citizen has a constitutional right to ASK the question of someone that's ASKING for his vote. He likewise has a reasonable expectation of privacy. That the press tried to pillory him publicly is revolting.
That you want to blame McCain-Palin for this is absurd.
You're thinking too hard man.
KintlaLake
10-18-08, 19:55
I'm comfortable with my premises, John. YMMV. :)
To answer your questions: "yes" to the first; and "no" to the second.
Out. :cool:
Gutshot John
10-18-08, 19:57
I'm comfortable with my premises, John. YMMV. :)
To answer your questions: "yes" to the first; and "no" to the second.
Out. :cool:
That's actually quite sad. I'd humbly ask you to give it more thought and consider what I said.
tumbleweed1002
10-18-08, 20:03
I have never seen the likes of this election, media bias, voter fraud, down right lies. If the truth about Obama was brought out there would not even be a race Mccain would win hands down, look how close they are with all the Obama cover up. As far as a citizen asking a question the last time I checked we live in the U.S.A. and do not need to qualify the question or worry about persicution for asking ,remember the only stupid question is the one that is not asked. I'd rather get it straight frome the horses mouth than read the pc answer on the web site.
I'm comfortable with my premises, John. YMMV. :)
To answer your questions: "yes" to the first; and "no" to the second.
Out. :cool:
That is quite a disgusting point of view.
The attacks on this guy do not surprise me at all. Obama is the media's golden boy and they will try to destroy anyone who dares challenge him. Lets send a message on election day, vote and make a difference.
Private people have an expectation of privacy. "Joe the Plumber" is a private person.
Public figures have no such expectations (or should expect such rights).
Asking a candidate for president (I won't say "presidential candidate" as Obama is in NO WAY presidential) a question at a public forum does not make you a public figure.
CarlosDJackal
10-19-08, 04:40
Well, the first thing that occurs to me is that if I owed the State of Ohio $1,800+ in back taxes, I wouldn't step in front of the media and ask a presidential candidate how his tax policy would affect me. I'm just sayin'... :rolleyes:
Mr. Wurzelbacher's character is what it is, and he's responsible for it -- I make no judgment. And again, we probably wouldn't have heard a word about it if McCain-Palin had done its job.
A lot of good people owe back taxes. It really shoul dhave no bearing on the issue at hand - except for the sheeple who thinks bho is the second coming and actually walks on water. Any more than did Sarah Palin's daughter being prgnant AND ENGAGED (something the same press you're defending seems to have glossed over).
I wouldn't care if bho's daughters were crack hos or were single parents - unless their dad is trying to propose legislation where the American tax payers will have to step in and provide alimony and/or child support; or we have to pay for their abortion and any subsequent medical expenses (which is something that bho does support and is part of his welfare agenda). JM2CW.
Private people have an expectation of privacy. "Joe the Plumber" is a private person.
They actually don't. Your mortgage, arrest, driving, tax etc records are all available to ANY person of the public. And if your local governments records are online, like many, it would take but 30min for me to get all of that information, legally. People here are mistaken what is right thing to do with what is actually legal. They SHOULD have left him alone but trust me it's not illegal if they don't. The "expectation of privacy" is a legal term and does not apply here. Just wanted to get that straight for everyone. :)
Gutshot John
10-19-08, 11:32
They actually don't. Your mortgage, arrest, driving, tax etc records are all available to ANY person of the public. And if your local governments records are online, like many, it would take but 30min for me to get all of that information, legally. People here are mistaken what is right thing to do with what is actually legal. They SHOULD have left him alone but trust me it's not illegal if they don't. The "expectation of privacy" is a legal term and does not apply here. Just wanted to get that straight for everyone. :)
No one said the press broke the law, they did however cross a line. I used "reasonable expectation" purely in the vernacular, as opposed to legal sense. It's entirely reasonable, from the quotidian perspective, for a private citizen to ask a question of someone who asks for his vote and still expect some amount of privacy from the press.
While it is not legally applicable, as the "expectation of privacy" is purely a government prohibition, you will often hear the press justify their behavior of invading the privacy of "public persons", if the press now views it as legitimate to target a private citizen who simply asked a question, than you tell me where that slippery slope stops? Ethically, the press' actions are of dubious provenance.
Whether something is "legal" or "ethical" are two different considerations.
No one said the press broke the law, they did however cross a line. I used "reasonable expectation" purely in the vernacular, as opposed to legal sense. It's entirely reasonable, from the quotidian perspective, for a private citizen to ask a question of someone who asks for his vote and still expect some amount of privacy from the press. Ethically, the press' actions are of dubious provenance.
While it is not legally applicable, as the "expectation of privacy" is purely a government prohibition, you will often hear the press justify their behavior of invading the privacy of "public persons", if the press now views it as legitimate to target a private citizen who simply asked a question, than you tell me where that slippery slope stops?
Whether something is "legal" or "ethical" are two different considerations.
I understand. We are on the same page. I was just clearing up what seemed to be confusion on what was legal. I 100% agree that they SHOULD have left this man alone. ;)
They actually don't. Your mortgage, arrest, driving, tax etc records are all available to ANY person of the public. And if your local governments records are online, like many, it would take but 30min for me to get all of that information, legally. People here are mistaken what is right thing to do with what is actually legal. They SHOULD have left him alone but trust me it's not illegal if they don't. The "expectation of privacy" is a legal term and does not apply here. Just wanted to get that straight for everyone. :)
I don't think you tax records are public and available. Tax liens would be as they are a matter of court record, and property tax BILLs. But your tax returns are not.
But that does not change the expectation of privacy -- people taking those records and publishing them for the world to see on the front page. I am not talking about anything legal -- just ethical and proper and moral.
John_Wayne777
10-19-08, 12:38
Charlie Rangle owes backed taxes...far in excess of what Joe owes.
I don't recall a major effort to discredit HIM or a bunch of organizations trying to cost him his job.
Funny how that works out, isn't it?
Charlie Rangle owes backed taxes...far in excess of what Joe owes.
I don't recall a major effort to discredit HIM or a bunch of organizations trying to cost him his job.
Funny how that works out, isn't it?
yeah I was totally thinking of that myself !!!!
So I got to watch Joe the plumber on Mike H.'s show last night. I thought the guy is an honest, hard working single father that is trying to live his dream (of owning his own business). One other thing about Joe is that he is a Veteran. At the very least, he deserves a certain level of respect for serving his country. To date, I don't think he has gotten it.
Talking with my wife, we discussed what it would look like if Obama had come walking down our street and I was "Joe the Plumber."
I wonder what they would dig up on me? Would they even mention that I served my country (in uniform and out)? They would see that I am an 07/02 and then find out that that I do not even have a gun smith license! :eek: Oh the horror of a gun shop owner not having a formal gun smith license (and works on guns)!
As most people are aware, I know a thing or two about the AR platform. I am sure "Joe the plumber" knows a thing or two about plumbing. So the license thing is a red herring to me.
C4
As most people are aware, I know a thing or two about the AR platform. I am sure "Joe the plumber" knows a thing or two about plumbing. So the license thing is a red herring to me. C4
I agree, the licensing is a red herring. Licensing is basically a state run cartel. The fewer providers in a profession that have the state approved license means higher wages. But one thing I think that continues to be missed in this discussion is that Joe the Plumber would have been left alone if not for the McCain/Palin campaign monopolizing on the gaffe by Obama. I have no sympathy for the liberal media, but they did not set out to discredit this man for asking a simple question, they were discrediting a tool used by the McCain/Palin campaign.
Now let's praise Joe the Plumber for bucking the IRS and the state licensing cartel, that gets my admiration.
So I got to watch Joe the plumber on Mike H.'s show last night. I thought the guy is an honest, hard working single father that is trying to live his dream (of owning his own business). One other thing about Joe is that he is a Veteran. At the very least, he deserves a certain level of respect for serving his country. To date, I don't think he has gotten it.
Talking with my wife, we discussed what it would look like if Obama had come walking down our street and I was "Joe the Plumber."
I wonder what they would dig up on me? Would they even mention that I served my country (in uniform and out)? They would see that I am an 07/02 and then find out that that I do not even have a gun smith license! :eek: Oh the horror of a gun shop owner not having a formal gun smith license (and works on guns)!
As most people are aware, I know a thing or two about the AR platform. I am sure "Joe the plumber" knows a thing or two about plumbing. So the license thing is a red herring to me.
C4
:eek::eek::eek::eek: CANCEL MY ORDER!!! HOW DARE YOU??? Seriously? There is a gunsmiths license? Learn something new everyday...
I agree, the licensing is a red herring. Licensing is basically a state run cartel. The fewer providers in a profession that have the state approved license means higher wages. But one thing I think that continues to be missed in this discussion is that Joe the Plumber would have been left alone if not for the McCain/Palin campaign monopolizing on the gaffe by Obama. I have no sympathy for the liberal media, but they did not set out to discredit this man for asking a simple question, they were discrediting a tool used by the McCain/Palin campaign.
Now let's praise Joe the Plumber for bucking the IRS and the state licensing cartel, that gets my admiration.
The thing of it is though is that Joe didn't ask for this attention. He simply asked a question. This does NOT give the liberal media the right to do what they are doing IMHO.
Joe is really making people across America realize EXACTLY what they are getting with the Obama tax plan (socialism) and I do not fault McCain for using him at all. I would have done the same thing they did.
C4
:eek::eek::eek::eek: CANCEL MY ORDER!!! HOW DARE YOU??? Seriously? There is a gunsmiths license? Learn something new everyday...
Well not really a "license", but a certification that you would get from a junior college.
Most high quality gun smiths I know are all self taught.
C4
Well not really a "license", but a certification that you would get from a junior college.
Most high quality gun smiths I know are all self taught.
C4
Doesn't matter what you put between those 2 bold and underlined statements... It seems to be true more often than not.
and to think he just asked a question !!!
imagine when Obama wants to register all gun owners how he will come down on us !!!!!
Wow,
I believe Joe the plumber was concerned about buying a small plumbing business that would earn more than $250k. This does not mean tha he is making it now or even a plumber now.
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