View Full Version : Hardening Soft Targets and Other Measures
I know there are multiple threads that may touch on some of this, however I thought one consolidated thread might be beneficial.
I had been thinking of some of this over the past few days and then found this article (https://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2018/02/18/how-to-eliminate-school-shootings-overnight-n2450380) from a website called 'Townhall' - "7 Simple Steps to Eliminate School Shootings Overnight" by Kevin McCullogh. I can not vouch for the site security, I seem to get a lot of popups from it. The article seemed decent enough though.
Highlights from the article:
1. Metal Detectors In Every School
2. Enforce Everything
3. Perform Active Shooter Drills
4. Reinforce Doors, Windows, Buses, Locks
5. Recruit Retired Military & Law Enforcement
6. Arm All Appropriate Personnel
7. Publicize Consequence
I thought the article was decent. #2 might be a challenge, and may be a slippery slope, although I understand the spirit of the writers point.
What are some other measures that could be implemented? Physical security or training, awareness, technology? From my experience in private security I would say that a 'safety & security mindset', diligence to adhere to set protocols, and situational awareness can be worth just as many fancy doohickeys or new initiatives we could all think up here.
In my personal brainstorming I had considered metal detectors (obviously an inconvenience in a school, however as part of a multifaceted security program could mitigate the troubled kids who are 'leaking' their desire to commit violence by showing up with bullets or firearms/parts) and the importance of actually locking doors (kids I have spoken with tell me their schools are hit or miss, or have too many doors to attend to). Also there is training and practice and discussion which are all critical - IME all too often AS training was too negative a topic and the HR types 'did not even want to go there' - schools seem diligent enough to perform these drills however I do not know to the level and urgency Run, Hide, Fight is really discussed.
The last considerations I had were some sort of emergency egress window, think like a schoolbus window that could just be kicked out in extreme emergency. Obviously multi story buildings would need a ladder or fire escape, why not an airline emergency slide?
Hey maybe we could just build a wall around our soft targets?
"The man who stands firm in order to protect a sand-castle can never be relied upon; for he has given away his common sense."
Winston Churchill
when I was in high school (5a) 1997-2001, we had 3 full time police officers.
I know for a fact most school districts can function with just (1) full time police officer for each public school, 1 is better than none. This wouldn't put any financial strain on average cities or counties. You could rotate officers daily or have a dedicated police officer. An average size city has 1 high school, 2 junior high schools, 2 middle schools, 2 elementary schools. That is 7 officers needed and the average city in the US with a population of 25,000 has a police force of 48 officers and 65 total personnel.
Having said that, I do feel in todays time there are needed security measures that should be implemented:
Most schools in Dallas county force you to wear a uniform with a photo id card at all times and your back pack has to be mesh, transparent, or otherwise see through, no purses allowed. Your id card gets you entrance into the school, parking lots for schools are monitored during school hours by 3rd party retired security guards and you have to have a sticker to enter the parking lot. This could be implemented nation wide but I hate the idea of uniforms and see through back packs.
Metal detectors are a great idea but you have to have someone standing there monitoring the operation much like TSA. It could be done but the expense might but a financial burden on smaller school districts. Teachers should have the option to be armed, those who chose to carry should take a minimum of 10 hours of qualification courses and have training on how to act in a situation like a school shooting.
Mandatory that every high school student be involved in some after school program for at least 3 years, JROTC, athletics, band, cheer, dance, choir, sanctioned clubs, etc.- this will help build social skills and make friends and encourage the shy kids from keeping a low profile and feeling like an outcast.
Teachers should have to have mandatory continuing education every 2 years (10 hours)- lawyers, real estate agents, doctors, nurses and CPA's have to , so should teachers- at there own expense. This way our teachers are up to date with the latest material.
Disciplinary actions should be taken against, bullies, trouble makers, disrespect for teachers,and those who break the rules. No more 3 strikes your out but immediate discipline. Schools also need to take action even if an offence (student/student) happens outside of school like on social media or party, this pertains to bullies, fighting, threats, altercations etc.
School personnel should meet with every student at least twice a year for a sit down face to face talk and cover school life, home life, hobbies, interest etc. Just a one on one talk, that lets the students know the school is interested in them. This will also allow school personnel to identify any problems or issues that may need to be addressed. If so, a parent/teacher/student meeting should take place and a game plan should be put in place to assist or help.
Access, access, access. Control thereof.
when I was in high school (5a) 1997-2001, we had 3 full time police officers.
I know for a fact most school districts can function with just (1) full time police officer for each public school, 1 is better than none. This wouldn't put any financial strain on average cities or counties. You could rotate officers daily or have a dedicated police officer. An average size city has 1 high school, 2 junior high schools, 2 middle schools, 2 elementary schools. That is 7 officers needed and the average city in the US with a population of 25,000 has a police force of 48 officers and 65 total personnel.
Having said that, I do feel in todays time there are needed security measures that should be implemented:
Most schools in Dallas county force you to wear a uniform with a photo id card at all times and your back pack has to be mesh, transparent, or otherwise see through, no purses allowed. Your id card gets you entrance into the school, parking lots for schools are monitored during school hours by 3rd party retired security guards and you have to have a sticker to enter the parking lot. This could be implemented nation wide but I hate the idea of uniforms and see through back packs.
Metal detectors are a great idea but you have to have someone standing there monitoring the operation much like TSA. It could be done but the expense might but a financial burden on smaller school districts. Teachers should have the option to be armed, those who chose to carry should take a minimum of 10 hours of qualification courses and have training on how to act in a situation like a school shooting.
Mandatory that every high school student be involved in some after school program for at least 3 years, JROTC, athletics, band, cheer, dance, choir, sanctioned clubs, etc.- this will help build social skills and make friends and encourage the shy kids from keeping a low profile and feeling like an outcast.
Teachers should have to have mandatory continuing education every 2 years (10 hours)- lawyers, real estate agents, doctors, nurses and CPA's have to , so should teachers- at there own expense. This way our teachers are up to date with the latest material.
Disciplinary actions should be taken against, bullies, trouble makers, disrespect for teachers,and those who break the rules. No more 3 strikes your out but immediate discipline. Schools also need to take action even if an offence (student/student) happens outside of school like on social media or party, this pertains to bullies, fighting, threats, altercations etc.
School personnel should meet with every student at least twice a year for a sit down face to face talk and cover school life, home life, hobbies, interest etc. Just a one on one talk, that lets the students know the school is interested in them. This will also allow school personnel to identify any problems or issues that may need to be addressed. If so, a parent/teacher/student meeting should take place and a game plan should be put in place to assist or help.
Thanks for the reply.
I like the common sense approach, it fits in with what I was saying ‘fancy and new’ often isn’t needed if people just adhered to policies or ideas already implemented.
The clear or mesh backpacks is interesting. Even the HS students need to use those? Kids today I see have a lot of big books plus laptops and generally have large/sturdy looking day packs.
Metal detectors and TSA type monitoring is another good idea for many reasons (bear with me), could put Vets to work as well as lowering Unemployment. Control access, limit drugs and contraband. Have an on site response team (or at least dedicated single responder). ‘Educational Safety Program’ (ESP) or Administration (ESA)? ‘School Safety Administration’ (SSA) may not be the best name since we already have the Social Security Administration. Of course we know the TSA has challenges and failures, we would just have to try to learn from past mistakes.
K9 teams?
Local PD outreach during class assemblies, or parent teacher events?
I do like the mandatory activities. In today’s SnapChat, YouTube, and selfie world I think kids need to get out and integrate a bit more.
Access, access, access. Control thereof.
Absolutely. Multiple AS’s have simply driven up and parked (Parkland took a ****ing Uber and was dropped off) and walked right in. Fits in to what I was saying. Adherence to basic controls, diligence, and a safety and security mindset. Thanks for the reply!
I do like the mandatory activities. In today’s SnapChat, YouTube, and selfie world I think kids need to get out and integrate a bit more.
So you would support Government FORCED expensive after school programs. Of which not everyone can afford.
What happen to FREEDOM??
Suppose you would support TSA style pat downs on every student?
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Diamondback
02-25-18, 13:30
There is one that Canada gets right on these:
8. Make the offender an Unperson. Never mention name or show face.
There is one that Canada gets right on these:
8. Make the offender an Unperson. Never mention name or show face.
But...but...the Media NEEDS that information! They have a RIGHT of FREEDOM OF THE PRESS! How are they supposed to PROTECT us if they can't give out the information!?
Ok, that was all in sarcasm by the way. I have however heard those things said at my employment (television station) from our newsies. I find it very sad they have no issue limiting the Second and get irritated/confused if you suggest applying the same restrictions onto the First.
As to the OP:
I'm not sure on the metal detectors. I noticed when using civilian airports while in the military there doesn't seem to be a common standard/calibration to metal detectors. Sometimes my dog tags would set them off, sometimes not. Same with belt buckle and the shanks in our boots. Heck, even the dammits in my hat did it once.
I also think it sounds like we'd be making prisons out of our schools. I would suggest a mix of active/passive counter measures. Have the detectors incorporated into the building designs. One SRO on their own isn't going to be as effective as an SRO teamed with concealed carry teachers (only school Admin and SRO knowing who has their CCW). Make it known there are counter measures in place, but don't give specifics or have them all visible. Having a school be a known hard target, but not advertising it, I think would help deter most people.
Diamondback
02-25-18, 18:25
But...but...the Media NEEDS that information! They have a RIGHT of FREEDOM OF THE PRESS! How are they supposed to PROTECT us if they can't give out the information!?
The Treason Media has the right to tongue-clean my ass fresh off a Bowl Blaster From Hell, as far as I'm concerned. :p
So you would support Government FORCED expensive after school programs. Of which not everyone can afford.
What happen to FREEDOM??
Suppose you would support TSA style pat downs on every student?
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Not all after school programs cost money, some do like cheer, athletics, band etc. But the reason for this is to get each student involved in groups or activities outside of the school. This is actually beneficial that it gets students connected with other students and encourage students to reach out to other students. We don't want students to feel isolated or feel invisible. Allow students to form there own clubs and set meeting times and every club has to present a report of what they do twice a semester.
We don't want TSA pat downs, the last thing we want is for our schools to resemble prisons. Safety is the priority and steps should be taken, I propose photo id cards that allow access, access to school should be restricted during school hours. No admittance without photo id or appointment. All doors locked from outside. No students shall leave during school hours unless emergency. Anyone on school property during school hours are subject to prosecution for trespassing- except for parents.
K9 teams would make students feel that they were at a prison.
The Treason Media has the right to tongue-clean my ass fresh off a Bowl Blaster From Hell, as far as I'm concerned. :p
I could see them doing that if the network told them it was trendy.
My favorites are the ones who claim the Constitution only applies to muskets. I point out that using their "logic" (with air quotes to get their attention) then television and the internet isn't covered either. So far I can last 10 minutes before getting irritated by their circular arguments/parroting the network narrative.
Diamondback
02-25-18, 18:35
What about those of us who have (had) no interest in the range of options they proposed?
For example, I had proposed that my HS consider even an AIR Rifle team... and they threw a shit fit. Oh, if they'd known the Shop instructor had offered to teach me how to build an AR15 as a graded project... (This was my sophomore year, mid-late 1990s.)
Diamondback
02-25-18, 18:38
I could see them doing that if the network told them it was trendy.
My favorites are the ones who claim the Constitution only applies to muskets. I point out that using their "logic" (with air quotes to get their attention) then television and the internet isn't covered either. So far I can last 10 minutes before getting irritated by their circular arguments/parroting the network narrative.
Point out that musket balls are MUCH more destructive, that through-and-through clean holings are why more of their beloved Dindu Nuffin "good boy" thug "angels" get to keep their limbs while as recently as the 1860s musket and Minie balls and the smashed shattered bones they resulted in meant Get The Hacksaws.
Not all after school programs cost money, some do like cheer, athletics, band etc. But the reason for this is to get each student involved in groups or activities outside of the school. This is actually beneficial that it gets students connected with other students and encourage students to reach out to other students. We don't want students to feel isolated or feel invisible. Allow students to form there own clubs and set meeting times and every club has to present a report of what they do twice a semester.
.
I understand the reason for it. But the being FORCED part, will probably take same kids that are a problem and make the resentment even worse.
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Point out that musket balls are MUCH more destructive, that through-and-through clean holings are why more of their beloved Dindu Nuffin "good boy" thug "angels" get to keep their limbs while as recently as the 1860s musket and Minie balls and the smashed shattered bones they resulted in meant Get The Hacksaws.
Ah, I see you are under the same misconception as most people about the media. Logic, reason, facts, historic examples...those things don't normally get through to them.
The younger generations in today's media, especially at the affiliate level, are more concerned with "Likes", re-tweets, views, etc. than they are actually reporting facts and anything resembling "balance". Most of them, not all but most, put in the minimum effort to meet requirements. Research and fact checking isn't something they either do or are well versed in. Reporting has been reduced to what-ever can be downloaded from the networks or AP online. Original ideas are usually shot down. Standards have greatly decreased over the years. Visual media basics such as lighting, composition, shot placement/set up have all been pushed to the bottom of the skills list. Now days its more about parroting the network lines than being the "fourth column" and/or holding government to account.
Diamondback
02-25-18, 19:11
I understand the reason for it. But the being FORCED part, will probably take same kids that are a problem and make the resentment even worse.
Or take sorts that have interests nobody else shares, and MAKE resentment at forcing us square pegs into round holes. (OTOH, I've always gotten along better with my seniors than peers--at that age I woulda rather gone out to the airstrip in my backyard and hung out with the Flying Club guys swapping their "No Shit There I Was"es than have anything to do with the Bitchy Little Girls that were most of my graduating class.
Access, access, access. Control thereof.
Absolutely. Multiple AS’s have simply driven up and parked (Parkland took a ****ing Uber and was dropped off) and walked right in. Fits in to what I was saying. Adherence to basic controls, diligence, and a safety and security mindset. Thanks for the reply!
A locked door would do more to thwart attacks than all of the ‘gun control’ in the world.
Highlights from the article:
1. Metal Detectors In Every School
2. Enforce Everything
3. Perform Active Shooter Drills
4. Reinforce Doors, Windows, Buses, Locks
5. Recruit Retired Military & Law Enforcement
6. Arm All Appropriate Personnel
7. Publicize Consequence
Point by point:
1. This is a useless and expensive waste of time, if stopping mass school shootings is the goal. These guys walk in shooting. They'll just shoot the unarmed guy manning the metal detector and walk on in as they would have if there was no metal detector. Think about it. If you wanted to walk into a place and kill a bunch of people, would a metal detector even slow you down? Wouldn't slow me down. I find that many decent people have a hard time visualizing things from a "bad guy's" point of view. So what if a beeping sound happens when you walk through a portal to get into your pre-selected gun-free killing zone? That is no deterrent to a person who doesn't care if they live or die, and intends to kill lots of people.
2. I've been saying this for years. It was a complaint about BHO's regime. All those people were denied firearms purchases through NICS on their DROS forms, but hardly any of them were prosecuted. Their signature is on paper committing another felony. Put them in jail. Its a slam dunk easy case. Felon tries to buy a gun and stupidly fills out the paper work and signs it. Go pick them up, charge them, convict them and lock them up. Simple. We don't need more laws. Crime would be reduced tremendously if they would simply enforce existing law, and then keep violent criminals in prison for their entire sentence. Why in the hell are we letting these people out early?
3. I don't know about this one. There are too many variables to train for. I suppose if we make it something simple and easy to apply to a variety of situations, it could have some positive effect. Just a few simple, easy to remember steps. Something like the Eddie Eagle program, but obviously tailored to this particular issue. Still, I don't know what more needs to be said other than if you hear gunfire at school, run your little a$$ the hell out of there. That is what I told my kid. RUN! Don't ask permission. Run the opposite direction of the gunfire, hop a fence, find a safe place to run to and call me ASAP. We've discussed local businesses in each direction that she can run to.
4. I agree on this one. If Sandy Hook had a stronger door, Mr. A-Hole never would have gotten in. This will cost some money, but how much does a massacre in the school cost?
5. I like this one. It has potential for problems too, but if you believe that most people are good and will do the right thing, as I do, then this point will mostly work well. I worry about the few bad apples that might sneak through, but I don't see that small potential percentage as a reason to not do this one. The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, or several of them with guns.
6. Same as number five.
7. Agreed. The media won't do it, but it would deter a lot of the wannabes if they showed the mass murderer's bullet riddled dead body, lifeless face and canoed forehead. I keep asking these "do something" idiots what they think will stop this. Showing these little A-holes the reality of their own painful violent death, after failing to kill any kids, would be more of a deterrent than another failed gun ban. Show them they won't be famous and have a death toll assigned to their name. Show them that they will be dead and that they will fail.
Armed, trained staff (custodians, cafeteria, office staff in addition to teachers) combined with measures similar to Govt. offices has to happen. Little has been said about design measures such as single point of ingress/egress, bullet proof glass, and a central control room can be done without making the building resemble a prison. Enter the first set of doors, state your business and pass, or be locked down in an assault-proof containment and wait for the gas if you show harmful intent. Many newer schools employ a 2 stage entrance, but many still allow you to walk right in. I've been teaching Stop the Bleed in my home, several surrounding counties and access leaves a lot to be desired.
Some good ideas here.
This jumped out at me:
I also think it sounds like we'd be making prisons out of our schools. I
This reveals my libertarian leanings but schools are prisons. They require compulsory attendance to a govt building. If the govt cannot secure that building, it should not be compulsory.
Adding required after school programs are consistent with the current system. To say “no because freedom” is to miss the very point.
That’s why homeschooling became an option from a legal perspective. Otherwise the state owns your kid. If you cannot homeschool, the state owns your kid. This is a real issue and why school choice is part and parcel of this large school safety debate.
To put it another way, The majority is Americans are required by the govt to send their vulnerable kids (minors) to an unsecured location where they are not allowed by law to protect themselves to be indoctrinated into a soft target for wackos, terrorists, and everyday educational communists. Let it sink in.
Some good ideas here.
This jumped out at me:
This reveals my libertarian leanings but schools are prisons. They require compulsory attendance to a govt building. If the govt cannot secure that building, it should not be compulsory.
Adding required after school programs are consistent with the current system. To say “no because freedom” is to miss the very point.
That’s why homeschooling became an option from a legal perspective. Otherwise the state owns your kid. If you cannot homeschool, the state owns your kid. This is a real issue and why school choice is part and parcel of this large school safety debate.
To put it another way, The majority is Americans are required by the govt to send their vulnerable kids (minors) to an unsecured location where they are not allowed by law to protect themselves to be indoctrinated into a soft target for wackos, terrorists, and everyday educational communists. Let it sink in.
Yep on all accounts. I was stunned when our school district built a new school to replace our high school that burned down a decade ago and incorporate ZERO precautions at the front entrance for securing the school from an assault.
Averageman
02-26-18, 19:40
Before you change the hardware, you have to look closely at the software you're using.
The mindset of my local High School is dominated by a "It's never going to happen here" mindset.
I would challenge everyone here to take a day and substitute teacher, just to get a feel for where your tax dollars are going.
Have lunch with the faculty members. Meet the Administration, just get a feel for it.
It will scare the hell out of you.
So you would support Government FORCED expensive after school programs. Of which not everyone can afford.
What happen to FREEDOM??
Suppose you would support TSA style pat downs on every student?
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And what are you contributing here?
These are just ideas. Yes, I think kids should have a ‘requirement’ to participate. You could incentivize it maybe. As others has posted not all activities cost money. For that matter have the school day be longer, and have these ‘activities’ be a scheduled class the student chooses from, and is required to attend and participate in.
TSA pat downs for students, you realize some schools have metal detectors already right? It’s not that I’m thrilled at the idea, however if it keeps people safe why be so opposed to it? For all their failures, the TSA has been working since Post 9/11 probably at minimal inconvenience to millions of flyers.
So let's add up the number of shootings where the perps sneaked weapons in via backpack or similar. Anyone?
I'm not saying there should not be screening, just that most are not from students that enter normally.
This reveals my libertarian leanings but schools are prisons. They require compulsory attendance to a govt building. If the govt cannot secure that building, it should not be compulsory.
Adding required after school programs are consistent with the current system. To say “no because freedom” is to miss the very point.
That’s why homeschooling became an option from a legal perspective. Otherwise the state owns your kid. If you cannot homeschool, the state owns your kid. This is a real issue and why school choice is part and parcel of this large school safety debate.
To put it another way, The majority is Americans are required by the govt to send their vulnerable kids (minors) to an unsecured location where they are not allowed by law to protect themselves to be indoctrinated into a soft target for wackos, terrorists, and everyday educational communists. Let it sink in.
Yup. Even so, even though you (not 'you' you) don't homeschool, there is theft via taxation to pay for public schools, so we still get screwed. We are saving the county and state about $500,000 for six kids over 12 years.
We homeschool, 6 kids. We have guns at school, and the teachers may or may not be armed ;).
What about those of us who have (had) no interest in the range of options they proposed?
For example, I had proposed that my HS consider even an AIR Rifle team... and they threw a shit fit. Oh, if they'd known the Shop instructor had offered to teach me how to build an AR15 as a graded project... (This was my sophomore year, mid-late 1990s.)
That’s great. My shop instructor was cool. We rebuilt cars and made birdhouses. I have to have disclosure here and admit I made a few Chinese Throwing Stars in metalshop...
Ah, I see you are under the same misconception as most people about the media. Logic, reason, facts, historic examples...those things don't normally get through to them.
The younger generations in today's media, especially at the affiliate level, are more concerned with "Likes", re-tweets, views, etc. than they are actually reporting facts and anything resembling "balance". Most of them, not all but most, put in the minimum effort to meet requirements. Research and fact checking isn't something they either do or are well versed in. Reporting has been reduced to what-ever can be downloaded from the networks or AP online. Original ideas are usually shot down. Standards have greatly decreased over the years. Visual media basics such as lighting, composition, shot placement/set up have all been pushed to the bottom of the skills list. Now days its more about parroting the network lines than being the "fourth column" and/or holding government to account.
I had posted about this elsewhere here. It’s not only kids but the Legacy Media and of course nouveau media (alternative media) - it’s all about Likes, Followers, Reposts, and ‘trending’.
Point by point:
7. Agreed. The media won't do it, but it would deter a lot of the wannabes if they showed the mass murderer's bullet riddled dead body, lifeless face and canoed forehead. I keep asking these "do something" idiots what they think will stop this. Showing these little A-holes the reality of their own painful violent death, after failing to kill any kids, would be more of a deterrent than another failed gun ban. Show them they won't be famous and have a death toll assigned to their name. Show them that they will be dead and that they will fail.
Totally agree. I learned recently after watching an interview of the parents of an Aurora Theater victim, Alex Teves, that they started a campaign to fight the media glorifying AS’s through publishing their name and face. It’s called No Notoriety and here is a link to it (https://nonotoriety.com). I saw the parents on the Showtime series ‘Active Shooter’, the Aurora episode.
Access, access, access. Control thereof.
Exactly. Shortly after Charlie Hebdo one of our French clients asked us to redesign the lobby on one of their plants in NJ. We built BR walled lobbies and security offices. Turn styles, badges access. All glazing was NIJ Lvl3, BR panels in the walls and so on.
This would be nice to do in schools but is fairly cost prohibitive. Not sure how the tax payer can foot that bill.
Yup. Even so, even though you (not 'you' you) don't homeschool, there is theft via taxation to pay for public schools, so we still get screwed. We are saving the county and state about $500,000 for six kids over 12 years.
We homeschool, 6 kids. We have guns at school, and the teachers may or may not be armed ;).
Yes, mine go to private Christian schools, which aren't by no means cheap. And I pay taxes to support the failed public school system that I abhor.
This article popped up in a newsletter I received today:
Designing a School to Stop Shooters
From "Designing a School to Stop Shooters"
The Wall Street Journal (03/13/18) Hobbs, Tawnell D.
The Wylie Independent School District spent $19 million to make George W. Bush Elementary School in an upper-class Dallas suburban neighborhood able to withstand a school shooter. The special features include sparse landscaping and numerous windows in the front to provide a clear view of approaching visitors. In addition, entering the school is a multistep process. First, visitors enter a vestibule and must be buzzed inside the main office. Then, a government-issued ID must be scanned through a system called the "Raptor," which flags child molesters and anyone else who should be kept out. The school has wide hallways and no small nooks, making it harder to hide or avoid video surveillance that is viewable by school administrators and police officers in patrol cars. The Wylie School District has regular lockdown and emergency drills, full-time security officers trained in active school shooting situations, and strong ties with local police, according to district spokesman Ian Halperin. These types of designs and tactics are becoming more common among the country's 98,000 public schools as students, parents, administrators, and lawmakers grapple with the rash of school shootings. Since 1990, there have been 32 shootings in schools where at least three people were killed or injured.
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