View Full Version : Firing brass vs steel casings. Is there any negative with firing steel casings?
Spooky4431
03-02-18, 15:46
New to AR platform and new to m4carbine forum. I have an Eagle M 14 and wondering if there is any negatives with firing steel casing rounds as opposed to brass?
New to AR platform and new to m4carbine forum. I have an Eagle M 14 and wondering if there is any negatives with firing steel casing rounds as opposed to brass?
What the hell is an Eagle M 14???
The casing doesn't matter. If the bullet is bi-metal, it'll wear harder on the barrel. But the wear is negligible when compared to the cost of barrel replacement vs. dollar savings on ammo.
What the hell is an Eagle M 14???
Maybe an Eagle Arms? I have a few Eagle arms by Armalite lowers.
Spooky4431
03-02-18, 16:56
What the hell is an Eagle M 14???
As I understand it, Eagle is a division of Armilite and M-14 is their nomenclature for their 5.56.
Eagle Arms. M-15. Sorry
A brass case will obturate (expand against the chamber walls) when fired, sealing the chamber from expanding gases that propel the bullet. A steel case doesn't do this, so the chamber will foul more quickly.
Call me skeptical, but I doubt that your Eagle M15 has a BCG with a quality extractor spring assembly. Steel case ammo might make for some good malfunction clearance practice.
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https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
The most comprehensive test I've seen. Extractors wear faster grabbing steel rims, too.
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Spooky4431
03-02-18, 19:32
Thank you for your info.
What the hell is an Eagle M 14???
per Armalite's website, the Eagle models are their budget friendly models.
What the hell is an Eagle M 14???
http://vintagetoyauctions.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/1e37cf2c418c.JPG
http://vintagetoyauctions.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/1e37cf2c418c.JPG
Wish I had one of those when I was a kid.
wetidlerjr
03-04-18, 08:14
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
The most comprehensive test I've seen. Extractors wear faster grabbing steel rims, too.
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That was interesting and educational. Thanks!
In my Glocks or other pistols, I'd run Wolf if I had to. In my ARs? No, because knowing me, I'd forget to clean the chamber before I switched back to brass ammo.
ETA: Rereading, that sentence made no sense.
per Armalite's website, the Eagle models are their budget friendly models.
Where did you find this info? In the old days Eagle marked lowers were sold as a lower only while complete rifles were marked Armalite.
Inkslinger
03-04-18, 10:45
In my Glocks or other pistols, I'd run Wolf if I had to. In my ARs? No, because knowing me, I'd forget to clean the trigger before I switched back to brass ammo
How is your trigger being effected by steel case ammunition?
Maybe I'm just a simpleton but I shoot steel and brass and aluminum and zinc and never do anything in between. No cleaning before switching, no adding lubricant, no rain dance. Been doing this since the late 90s. None of my firearms seem to know the difference
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Where did you find this info? In the old days Eagle marked lowers were sold as a lower only while complete rifles were marked Armalite.
I went to Armalite's website and looked at all their models, then read the accompanying description.
Wish I had one of those when I was a kid.
Hell I wish I had one NOW lol
I only shoot ammo in steel or brass cases. Sausage goes in a casing.
How is your trigger being effected by steel case ammunition?
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. But I don't shoot steel cased ammo so I guess I wouldn't know.....
tigershilone
03-04-18, 19:35
I've had both Tula and Wolf steel cased ammo stick in the chambers and fail to extract multiple times in my 2 stainless barreled AR's (one a BCM 5.56 chamber, other a Larue Wydle chamber) but all of my standard steel barreled AR's have shot steel cased ammo without any issues. Those incidences were enough to convince me to run only brass ammo since.
The negative side of shooting steel case ammunition is that it is, more often than not, less accurate that brass case ammunition. Hornady steel case match ammunition is the exception. If you are shooting a High Power Match, especially out to 300 yards, foreign steel case ammunition would not be a good choice.
I, and a considerable number of students, have fired tens of thousands of rounds of steel case ammunition over the past 20 years. The weapons are really dirty after a day on the range shooting cheap, steel case, ammunition. The cost savings far outweigh the cost of barrel replacement. If you are shooting at ranges of 100 meters and closer, it is an economical option. For example, you do not need to shoot high precision, i.e. high dollar, ammunition to practice bounding drills engaging targets out to 100 meters. If you are competing in a High Power Match where precision is of paramount importance, foreign steel case ammunition is not recommended.
legumeofterror
03-15-18, 05:39
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
The most comprehensive test I've seen. Extractors wear faster grabbing steel rims, too.
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That test is fundamentally flawed and the results near useless.
The way the rifles are fired are not representative of normal use. At normal operating temperatures the relative difference in hardness of the barrel and the brass/steel jackets of the bullets are vastly different. Once you get the barrel very hot through continuously shooting as they did the barrel steel is signifigantly more prone to errosion and the relative hardness is much closer to that of the steel jacket.
If you did that test properly to be more representative of typical use, firing a few hundred rounds at a time allowing the barrel to cool the difference between the brass and steel would be last drastic.
great thread, please continue
That test is fundamentally flawed and the results near useless.
The way the rifles are fired are not representative of normal use. At normal operating temperatures the relative difference in hardness of the barrel and the brass/steel jackets of the bullets are vastly different. Once you get the barrel very hot through continuously shooting as they did the barrel steel is signifigantly more prone to errosion and the relative hardness is much closer to that of the steel jacket.
If you did that test properly to be more representative of typical use, firing a few hundred rounds at a time allowing the barrel to cool the difference between the brass and steel would be last drastic.
Let the reader take care how he extraplolates the results to his expected "normal" use. Note that the firing rate was up to 300 rounds in a row and barrel temps did not exceed 750 deg F. How would you set the max and cool barrel temps?
I think it's unfair to call the test results "near useless." The pace of firing was reasonable given 40,000 rounds had to be shot. The gas tube occlusion from Brown Bear was unexpected and useful to know for anyone shooting that ammo. The chamber and gas port pressure data was unrelated to the barrel temp, presumably measured at ambient. Gas port erosion was higher for Federal than the rest. The myth of steel case coatings causing problems was debunked.
No test is perfect, but even if you disagree with the methodology, some things can be learned here.
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vicious_cb
03-16-18, 13:10
It matters little what the case is made out of. The biggest difference is the powder, bullet and the QC that goes into assembly. Russian steel case has a bad rep due to their shitty components but I've had less duds with their ammo vs 5.56 XM bullshit so maybe their QC is better. Also Hornady steel match is far higher quality than most of the domesticly brass cased produced non match ammo out there.
To expand on my previous post, the reason I won't shoot steel cased ammo through my carbines because of the potential for brass-cased ammo fired after steel to stick in the chamber unless one remembers to clean the chamber. Since the steel cases expand less than brass, one doesn't get the same seal when the cartridge fires that one would with brass, so you end up with more fouling in the chamber with steel-cased ammo. Not a problem until you go back to brass. When the brass expands, it'll get stuck because now the chamber is minutely smaller than it was previously.
To expand on my previous post, the reason I won't shoot steel cased ammo through my carbines because of the potential for brass-cased ammo fired after steel to stick in the chamber unless one remembers to clean the chamber. Since the steel cases expand less than brass, one doesn't get the same seal when the cartridge fires that one would with brass, so you end up with more fouling in the chamber with steel-cased ammo. Not a problem until you go back to brass. When the brass expands, it'll get stuck because now the chamber is minutely smaller than it was previously.I've never thought of this and often mix and match at the range. Never had anything stick or stuck. My rifles are 100% factory 6920 and 6721
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I've never thought of this and often mix and match at the range. Never had anything stick or stuck. My rifles are 100% factory 6920 and 6721
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Might depend on the firing schedule, too. I'm thinking of things along the lines of one of Pat's carbine classes, not necessarily a few rounds here, few rounds there.
Might depend on the firing schedule, too. I'm thinking of things along the lines of one of Pat's carbine classes, not necessarily a few rounds here, few rounds there.Maybe something in between. A few mags of leftovers of type A then switch to type B... Definitely not in class. For no other reason than to keep everything consistent and not possibly having issues when I'm paying for a class. But like I said I never thought of that. All I ever did for class was to bring one type of brand
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How much of the cheap steel case doesn't use a bimetal bullet?
How much of the cheap steel case doesn't use a bimetal bullet?Some don't. I dunno...what do you mean how much? What %? Look at the box, it will say it
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"lots of fouling" with steel-cased fodder? can't be more than when one uses brass-cased ammo with a suppressor, can it?
To expand on my previous post, the reason I won't shoot steel cased ammo through my carbines because of the potential for brass-cased ammo fired after steel to stick in the chamber unless one remembers to clean the chamber. Since the steel cases expand less than brass, one doesn't get the same seal when the cartridge fires that one would with brass, so you end up with more fouling in the chamber with steel-cased ammo. Not a problem until you go back to brass. When the brass expands, it'll get stuck because now the chamber is minutely smaller than it was previously.
You know, I kind of have to wonder where this came from and how often it happens. I kind of could see an issue with older lacquer cased ammo and getting the chamber hot and then feeding it brass. But, with the powder coat or whatever is used currently I've done mix and match and not had an issue with sticking rounds. Hell, I would say the most common instances I have seen of rounds sticking in chamber have been steel cased ammo in general and not the mix master stuff, albeit in tight chambers, I'm looking at your RRA. Now, I'm not saying it can't happen, but I think the whole, "you must clean your rifle after shooting steel ammo before you shoot brass or it will stick" is overblown because some do make it out if you fire a couple groups that you have to clean it white glove before you can shoot brass cased ammo. Unless you are running a case or better of Wolf or Tula and running it really hard or stupid, I am not sure I'd get too bent out of shape. I certainly wouldn't worry if I run a couple mags of steel case and then chase it with some M193. I've done it, my BCMs don't care, maybe the first couple rounds come out looking a little smokier, maybe they don't. Either way I haven't had any malfs that I can trace back to the mix master.
"lots of fouling" with steel-cased fodder? can't be more than when one uses brass-cased ammo with a suppressor, can it?
In the chamber, yes.
I think it depends on the chamber dimensions and how much steel you shoot before switching to brass.
If you shoot a case of steel and go to brass, might be an issue. Ive done a few mags of steel and a few mags if brass. The first few shots of brass look dirty, and clear up. Never had an issue.
In the chamber, yes.
I think it depends on the chamber dimensions and how much steel you shoot before switching to brass.
If you shoot a case of steel and go to brass, might be an issue. Ive done a few mags of steel and a few mags if brass. The first few shots of brass look dirty, and clear up. Never had an issue.
thank you
MSparks909
03-20-18, 06:23
How much of the cheap steel case doesn't use a bimetal bullet?
Some Wolf ammo doesn’t. I bought 500 rounds of Wolf .308 to run through my DD5V1. Wolf sells their steel cased .308 in both bi-metal and standard copper jacketed FMJs. I ordered the copper jacketed FMJs.
I don't know in what calibers but they do make some https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180320/15f0f63a2b72b56d6427f3dfa17aab52.jpg
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