View Full Version : Home Defense ar15 Ammo
NOTANASSHOLE
03-05-18, 08:46
What do y'all run in your home defense rifles? I run Freedom Munitions Boar Buster 64gr, but looking for alternatives to stock up on. Looking for something reasonably economical. I've heard good things about Speer Gold Dot, Federal Fusion, and Winchester Ranger.
This question has been asked and answered at least half a dozen times.
Quality M193. Why does everyone get hung up on this, if I were engaging a target at over 100 meters then a better bullet would be useful.
Quality M193. Why does everyone get hung up on this, if I were engaging a target at over 100 meters then a better bullet would be useful.
M193 is garbage as far as terminal ballistics go, no matter the range. Short answer that many could probably agree on for availability and price would be Federal Fusion.
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M193 is garbage as far as terminally ballistics go, no matter the range. Short answer that many could probably agree on for availability and price would be Federal Fusion.
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This. I dont like variability. 193 is all over the place in accuracy and terminal ballistics. Fusion is much more predictable, and performs better by almost every metric. Its also low-priced. Its the easy button, but there are a lot of options.
I suggest researching and looking up old threads. Training is most important, just get something decent(on docgkr’s list) and go train.
grizzlyblake
03-05-18, 13:53
Inside the house or outside? What range?
There's been a bunch of pretty educated/experienced posts recently about inside-the-house defense and how a Glock 19 or similar might be a better option depending on your personal situation (house layout, wife/kids, etc.).
I'm 100% G19 with handheld flashlight for home defense these days. Tritium sights and several mags of Speer 124gr +P Gold Dot. My 6720 is essentially just a toy (and red dawn whatever).
There's been a bunch of pretty educated/experienced posts recently about inside-the-house defense and how a Glock 19 or similar might be a better option depending on your personal situation (house layout, wife/kids, etc.).
Who in the world would fight for life with a friggin G19 over the carbine? Next we'll have the Bird gun lunatics chiming in. :jester:
tacticaldesire
03-05-18, 17:53
Speer Gold Dot 64gr or Federal Fusion 62gr.
Can you imagine missing someone with your carbine in a house, because it was 3 MOA shit. Think, I hit a guy 5 times in the chest with 77 grain Noslers, think he will call me out on it being target ammo. Its what my carbines are sighted in with so...
I do have some Gold Dots if I have to rack my BCM middy with my new ambi charging handle with my teeth, whilst hanging from a chandaleir and have to do a one hand carbine double tap. Just saying and Im bored. Go Gold Dots, they are cheap and pretty decent HD ammo.
PB
Fusion MSR functions well and is accurate in my rifles, is reasonably priced, has staked primers, and performs well in gelatin and deer. It is also readily available pretty much anywhere. Its the only .223 pressure ammo that I actually like. I’m always looking for something “better”, mainly because I don’t like encouraging manufacturers to make .223 instead of 5.56 for “serious” ammo. But no matter what ammo I try out or research, I always come back to Fusion MSR for home-d and hunting. A notable exception is brown tip, which may or may not be a better choice for SBR’s, but is harder to obtain. I keep one mag on hand.
I shoot piles of M855 at paper and steel and always have 7 or more loaded mags on hand. I know that at close range, it works. So if ball ammo is whats in the gun, I wouldn’t feel unprepared. But bonded soft points are much closer to optimum.
Interesting, the Fusion is getting strong reviews. I may have to buy a couple boxes for grins and runs few Jug and yellow pages test.
I ran some Fusion Branded ammo in my AR10 and was impressed for the dollar.
PB
Where are you guys finding fusion cheap enough that you consider it affordable? I don’t ever see it under $20 a box.
I was under the impression that the gold dot loads were essentially the same as the fusion. I’m able to find that for 1/2 the price as the msr. As a result that is what I have loaded.
Where are you guys finding fusion cheap enough that you consider it affordable? I don’t ever see it under $20 a box.
I was under the impression that the gold dot loads were essentially the same as the fusion. I’m able to find that for 1/2 the price as the msr. As a result that is what I have loaded.
When I say affordable, I mean for a small amount like 20-60 rnds. Particularly in comparison to the all copper loads like Barnes and Black Hills. Its not something I would buy 1000 of. The cheapest I can usually find it is roughly ~.90/rnd
Where are you guys finding fusion cheap enough that you consider it affordable? I don’t ever see it under $20 a box.
I was under the impression that the gold dot loads were essentially the same as the fusion. I’m able to find that for 1/2 the price as the msr. As a result that is what I have loaded.
They are almost identical. Either one goes on sale for $10/20rd on occasion.
vicious_cb
03-06-18, 10:56
Quality M193. Why does everyone get hung up on this, if I were engaging a target at over 100 meters then a better bullet would be useful.
Just no. Its performance is too unpredictable. It may or may not fragment no matter what velocity. In the case of a miss it deflects and doesn't track straight when going through barriers.
daddyusmaximus
03-06-18, 18:55
My home defense AR is loaded with Barnes VOR-TX 110 gr black tip... but it's a .300 Blackout SBR.
For my 16" 5.56 (.223) the God Dot/Fusion is a safe bet. I have some of each, and some Hornady Tap... and a butt load of M193.
My HD mags are loaded with 64gr Winchester PowerPoint
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The first shooting I was witness to involved 55gr. delivered into the right lung of some guy at about 25 yards. He died 45 minutes later, but was incapacitated almost immediately.
So in reality (which is hopefully where many of us live) within reason most 5.56 will do what it needs to do. The beauty of now living in homes with electricity and internet is we have a plethora of ammunition that wasn't available to us.
The question is how much of it, do you need? 90 rounds or 900? if you stitch up some dude with 5 round of M855 is he going to be pissed you didn't shoot him with .60 a round 77gr. or 64gr. Speer Gold Dots?
The first shooting I was witness to involved 55gr. delivered into the right lung of some guy at about 25 yards. He died 45 minutes later, but was incapacitated almost immediately.
So in reality (which is hopefully where many of us live) within reason most 5.56 will do what it needs to do. The beauty of now living in homes with electricity and internet is we have a plethora of ammunition that wasn't available to us.
The question is how much of it, do you need? 90 rounds or 900? if you stitch up some dude with 5 round of M855 is he going to be pissed you didn't shoot him with .60 a round 77gr. or 64gr. Speer Gold Dots?
^^^^This. Shot placement first. Everything else is a distant second.
Diamondback
03-07-18, 05:29
The first shooting I was witness to involved 55gr. delivered into the right lung of some guy at about 25 yards. He died 45 minutes later, but was incapacitated almost immediately.
So in reality (which is hopefully where many of us live) within reason most 5.56 will do what it needs to do. The beauty of now living in homes with electricity and internet is we have a plethora of ammunition that wasn't available to us.
The question is how much of it, do you need? 90 rounds or 900? if you stitch up some dude with 5 round of M855 is he going to be pissed you didn't shoot him with .60 a round 77gr. or 64gr. Speer Gold Dots?
Reminds me of the old saying about nobody ever saying "Yeah, he ONLY shot me with a .22!" Even a .25ACP will One Shot Stop if you put into the right place... former THR mod LawDog once cited a case he responded to where a gangbanger self-Darwinized with one to the huevos.
My cousin was killed several years ago by a guy who ambushed him to rob him. He took off running and was hit 8 times with 55gr Wolf. He made it up the driveway to the neighbors porch and lasted just long enough to beat on their door while calling his dad but not long enough to speak to him. Holes in the wrong places do bad things to human bodies.
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vicious_cb
03-07-18, 21:46
Obviously both sides have some truth to them. You would be correct to say that shot placement matters far more than bullet type or caliber so you shouldnt fixate on what the latest and greatest bullet is. On the other hand it makes logical sense to leverage current technology and buy defensive ammo that both reduces risk and increases effectiveness to possibly reduce the rounds necessary to incapacitate an attacker. Take the middle ground, buy a few boxes of the any of the rounds in DocGKR list in the barrier blind or OTM variety then stop worrying about it and practice with whatever you can get.
What you shouldnt do, shoot 200 rounds every 6 months off a bench then proceed to spout on the internet that M193 is all they need which is what I suspect most people on the internet do.
M193 is garbage as far as terminal ballistics go, no matter the range. Short answer that many could probably agree on for availability and price would be Federal Fusion.
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Surprisingly, my own personal experience from several years ago was completely opposite.
At HD/SD distances (<25m), the PPU M193 that I used performed significantly better than FF did. I found that inside 25m, FF expanded too quickly and, as a result, penetration was less than M193. I found that the M193 performed significantly better: every single shot fragmented and penetration was adequate.
Interestingly, I was also able to shoot slightly tighter groupings with the M193 than with the FF.
Anecdotal? Certainly. But I was convinced enough to stick with M193.
Surprisingly, my own personal experience from several years ago was completely opposite.
At HD/SD distances (<25m), the PPU M193 that I used performed significantly better than FF did. I found that inside 25m, FF expanded too quickly and, as a result, penetration was less than M193. I found that the M193 performed significantly better: every single shot fragmented and penetration was adequate.
Interestingly, I was also able to shoot slightly tighter groupings with the M193 than with the FF.
Anecdotal? Certainly. But I was convinced enough to stick with M193.
How deep did it penetrate and into what?
The problem with m193 is it tends to not frament until it passes the vitals much of the time, especially in frontal shots.
How deep did it penetrate and into what?
The problem with m193 is it tends to not frament until it passes the vitals much of the time, especially in frontal shots.
These were based on my own test circa 2010 using (uncalibrated) gel covered with an old leather flight jacket with a cloth liner. All shots were fired from 25 meters.
IIRCC, the PPU M193 penetrated 13" and the main expansion cavity began at around 3". And all 5 shots fragmented.
The FF penetrated a hair over 11" but the main expansion cavity occurred almost immediately.
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