View Full Version : 3 malfunctions in a class today.
Hi everyone. Im hoping someone can shed light on this
I took a primary-secondary class today and had 3 malfunctions out of roughly 400 ar rounds.
I couldn't inspect much as it happened because they were all mid drill and I needed to get back into the drill.
The first 2 were fail to feeds. The bolt picked up the round but didn't push it into the chamber. It appeared to get stuck on the feedramps.
For the last one, I had a click but no bang. I pulled the charging handle but it didn't move. I dropped the mag, pulled again hard and cleared it.
Upper parts were: Aero Precision receiver
Ballistic advantage 16" middy barrel
Rubber city armory bcg
Geissele CH
Ammo was 2009 bvac psp that I just wanted to burn though
Mags were series 2 hex 10/30s.
I thought the first 2 were ammo related so kinda dismissed them.
The last one really concerned me.
Can it all just be that old ammo?
Check for burrs on feed ramps and in chamber area first to rule that out. Given the feeding issues you also had I would guess the last malfunction was from a rough area, nick, burr etc. on the round itself which prevented the bolt from fully locking (click no bang) and then grabbed the chamber resulting in the extra hard extraction. Were u able to check the primer on the last round to see if it had been struck?
Try running some ball ammo. Perhaps that pointed soft point was the cause.
If I recall, they did not have a good reputation. And a quick google search shows that they don’t even have a website anymore. That’s a sign.
Try running some ball ammo. Perhaps that pointed soft point was the cause.
If I recall, they did not have a good reputation. And a quick google search shows that they don’t even have a website anymore. That’s a sign.
BVAC was bought out by a couple of investors who proceeded to gut the company that Darren Newsom had built. They did stuff such as have the payments sent to Illinois (where they were) and didn't give the factory much money to pay bills and buy supplies - at the end they were on cash before we ship status with most suppliers.
In 2009, Darrin was still running the company, he didn't sell until 2010 and the ammo was some of the best remanufactured and new ammo you could buy.
BVAC was bought out by a couple of investors who proceeded to gut the company that Darren Newsom had built. They did stuff such as have the payments sent to Illinois (where they were) and didn't give the factory much money to pay bills and buy supplies - at the end they were on cash before we ship status with most suppliers.
In 2009, Darrin was still running the company, he didn't sell until 2010 and the ammo was some of the best remanufactured and new ammo you could buy.
Interesting. I didn’t get into the game serious until 2012 so that’s my frame of reference.
And for anyone else following, the PSP comment was aimed to be a technical response to the question. Kind of a two part response if you will.
Sounds like bad ammo. If it was stuck in the chamber could thst slow the bolt enough to cause a short stroke?
Im thinking two almost stuck cases, and a bad round that was the dud that was stuck and didnt fire for some reason.
... or 2 mag issues and a separate ammo issue?
thehammer69
03-10-18, 23:28
Hexmag issue maybe???
I wasn't able to recover the round. There was about 6 inches of snow on the ground. It's gone forever.
I'll try to put a couple hundred rounds of ball though it before my next class (April 29).
I used the mags in another gun and it has no failures. I will say that they were almost impossible to insert on a closed bolt when fully loaded.
I really hope it was ammo. When I zeroed the upper in with ball ammo and aluminium mags, it was fine. I just didn't put many rounds though it. I just zeroed it and left.
BrigandTwoFour
03-11-18, 08:26
I posted about a similar issue during a class back in October. The round would get stripped from the mag, but would get caught halfway into the chamber with the bolt pinning the side of the cartridge against the feed ramp (left a big dent in the brass). The takeaway was short stroking. That particular barrel (Centurion CHF Middy) has had issues in the past with underpowered ammo and cold temperatures, and I think the lube wearing off after 400ish rounds sealed the deal.
So, in short, use more lube or use ammo with a bit more pressure.
Was a lock back check performed?
Was the failure to feed on a fresh mag with 10 rounds in it?
I have the same problem with HexMag 15/30's. If the mag is loaded full with all 15 rounds the BCG has enough force to only strip the round about half way down the feed lips and it looks like it's getting stuck on the ramps.
Last one could have just been a bad primer. No?
Was a lock back check performed?
I didn't do specific testing it with 1 round loaded but it always locked back on an empty mag.
Was the failure to feed on a fresh mag with 10 rounds in it?
I have the same problem with HexMag 15/30's. If the mag is loaded full with all 15 rounds the BCG has enough force to only strip the round about half way down the feed lips and it looks like it's getting stuck on the ramps.
Last one could have just been a bad primer. No?
Maybe on the bad primer but idk why the round was stuck. It was really hard to pull the bolt back.
Hammer_Man
03-11-18, 11:05
Make sure your weapon is clean, and check the feed ramps for divots, or burrs. If that's OK, then run it hard with different ammo (Federal XM193), and see if it happens again. If it does, try different magazines like Surefeeds, Pmags, or Lancers. If it still happens with good ammo and good magazines, you know you have an issue that is internal to your weapon. In that case I would start checking gas port, gas block alignment, gas tube, swap out BCG and action spring, etc...
I have had very bad experience with the hex mags. Pony up a dollar or two more and just use a mag.
I have had very bad experience with the hex mags. Pony up a dollar or two more and just use a mag.
Its not about the dollar.
I have pmags but they are all straight 10 rounds. I ran the hex mags because they are 10/30s and they are easy to pull down out of the receiver if I need to
Its not about the dollar.
I have pmags but they are all straight 10 rounds. I ran the hex mags because they are 10/30s and they are easy to pull down out of the receiver if I need to
That makes sense.
That makes sense.
I dunno.
I never was interested in a mag that looked to hold 30 but could only hold 10. Waste of space, more expensive, etc. PMAGs should have the base pad to rip out if needed.
Granted, I live in a state that, for the at least the next couple months, still allows any magazines.
Nonetheless, I went through 8 hex mags and hated every one of them.
ETA: Seriously, even the cheapo 2nd Amend Mags are 10x better than the Hex Mags. I just don't trust them anymore after the bolt ride I would get on the follower. Hard to insert loaded, even with a hard smack to the bottom.
I dunno.
I never was interested in a mag that looked to hold 30 but could only hold 10. Waste of space, more expensive, etc. PMAGs should have the base pad to rip out if needed.
Granted, I live in a state that, for the at least the next couple months, still allows any magazines.
Nonetheless, I went through 8 hex mags and hated every one of them.
ETA: Seriously, even the cheapo 2nd Amend Mags are 10x better than the Hex Mags. I just don't trust them anymore after the bolt ride I would get on the follower. Hard to insert loaded, even with a hard smack to the bottom.
It's not about looks. It's about being legally limited but still be able to grip and pull a mag if necessary.
If we are blaming the mags for my malfunctions, how could I verify and confirm or eliminate them as being a reason?
I couldn't inspect much as it happened because they were all mid drill and I needed to get back into the drill.
Im not going to comment on the malfunction, but I will give you a training tip. When we take classes we repeat drills, they are great learning tools we create. A malfunction is an amazing training tool. Don't let it go to waste. Take time to learn about your gun, especially if you'll ever bet your life on it. Stop and really look at what happened. Now that you took that all in get into clearing it and getting into the drill again. Or initially transition to your secondary and then after the drill check out your gun.
I find classes to also be great opportunity to test out a gun, so if it goes down I want to really know why.
Im not going to comment on the malfunction, but I will give you a training tip. When we take classes we repeat drills, they are great learning tools we create. A malfunction is an amazing training tool. Don't let it go to waste. Take time to learn about your gun, especially if you'll ever bet your life on it. Stop and really look at what happened. Now that you took that all in get into clearing it and getting into the drill again. Or initially transition to your secondary and then after the drill check out your gun.
I find classes to also be great opportunity to test out a gun, so if it goes down I want to really know why.
Yea man it happened and I completely fumbled. Instead of transitioning which was the whole point of the class, I went straight to getting the rifle back into action.
Check your action spring. Probably needs to be replaced.
Check your action spring. Probably needs to be replaced.
Funny that you mentioned that. I put a Geissele super 42 in it yesterday. The old spring was about an inch shorter.
It's not about looks. It's about being legally limited but still be able to grip and pull a mag if necessary.
If we are blaming the mags for my malfunctions, how could I verify and confirm or eliminate them as being a reason?
If you read my post, I was clearly commenting my disagreement with that exact rhetoric.
Do you, though.
Hammer_Man
03-13-18, 22:24
Did these malfunctions occur before installing the Super 42? Also, you asked how you can verify and confirm the magazines are the source of your malfunctions. The answer is simple, try different magazines. If I were you I'd spend the relatively low dollar amount and get some 10 round Pmags for testing.
Did these malfunctions occur before installing the Super 42? Also, you asked how you can verify and confirm the magazines are the source of your malfunctions. The answer is simple, try different magazines. If I were you I'd spend the relatively low dollar amount and get some 10 round Pmags for testing.
They happened with the old spring.
I have some 10 round pmags but I didn't use them in that class.
I'll try different ammo in the next class. If that doesn't work, ill try the mags. I was hoping there would be an obvious way to check the mags without going through another 400-500 rounds, but if that's what I have to do then that's what I'll do
Don't Tread On Me
03-14-18, 08:37
When is the next class? I'm not trying to be an ass, but if you could test prior to the class, that would allow you to take more away from the training as opposed to worrying about what is wrong with you gun.
I'm sure there are others who could offer a sample of testing procedures with some known quality magazines that would be fewer than the 400-500 rounds you mention.
Just want to give an update.
I used the gun in another class today. We used just about 300 rounds. My failure to feed problem along with the failure to unlock did not repeat.
I did get a failure to fire. I found the round and it appeared to NOT have been struck by the firing pin. It had the normal floating firing pin ding but not a strike.
Question and comment.
You may have a bad hammer spring? Or a gummed up firing pin? Or the bolt is not fully engaged? Yet the hammer goes? Weird.
Comments:
Lancer 10 round mags are slightly better than 10 round PMAGs JMHO. On my rifles full 10 round PMAGs will not allow insertion on a closed bolt. Sometimes, Lancers will. Which means that PMAGs and Lancers are effectively 9 round magazines.
I've found that old 30 round Gen 2 PMAGs with blocks installed will work on a closed bolt.
Make sure the hammer spring is good, the firing pin is good and clean.
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