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texasrangers
10-19-08, 21:07
Im trying to decide between a Remington 870 Express or a Mossberg 590. Price is an issue I would like to stay under $400 and definitely no more than $450. What do you guys recommend? Its 50/50 to me.

Mahk
10-19-08, 21:46
Pretty much a matter of opinion. Most people lean towards the 870s because the action is so smooth. Mossbergs are rougher, but much more sturdy and reliable in my experience.

Buck
10-19-08, 22:30
No question... 870 Police...

B

ST911
10-19-08, 22:41
For important things: In an Remington, the 870P. In the Mossberg, a 590A1.

Casual/rec use, the standard versions of either, with the Remington being the preference.

testudo
10-19-08, 22:52
Get the 870, it has a steel receiver. The Mossy uses aluminum.

SeriousStudent
10-19-08, 23:25
There was a very good thread in the Shotgun forum a while back. Buck and Skintop911 both had excellent input in that thread.

Based on their recommendations, I put together a Remington 870 Police Magnum, with a 20" barrel and rifle sights. I added a Surefire 618 light, Mesa Tactical shell holder, Vickers Sling, Vang Comp mag tube and follower.

It runs like a rocket ship - fast and smooth. With the Federal LE12700 Flite-Control buckshot load, it's a great uniform pattern. Flings a slug into a brain housing group up to about 80 yards from a rest.

You can find a used 870 Police Magnum for around $400 if you look. Add the useful doodads as you have funds down the road.

I did follow Skintop911's advice and got a used wood stock for $10, and cut it down about 1.5". Added a R3 recoil pad, and it's good to go.

Makes for quite a useful addition to the household artillery.

ST911
10-20-08, 00:12
Makes for quite a useful addition to the household artillery.

Sounds like a great setup, glad it's working well for you!

texasrangers
10-20-08, 00:40
thanks for the info everyone. Also maybe thinking about a benelli nova tactical 18.5 - but its capacity is only 4+1 so can i buy an extension for that and put it on myself pretty easily?

m24shooter
10-20-08, 18:43
Get the 870, it has a steel receiver. The Mossy uses aluminum.
So should Benellis and ARs be avoided as well?

testudo
10-20-08, 19:34
m24shooter,

Get whatever floats your boat. The OP originally asked about two specific shotguns. The Mossy will work, but it is not going to be as robust as the 870.

trio
10-20-08, 20:25
i have an 870 and a 590A1...

i've also had an 1100 tactical


i like the 590A1 best....it is plenty tough, i like the features it comes with standard and it was cheaper...

if its good enough for the military, i think it will do the job for me

MarshallDodge
10-20-08, 20:44
I have a 590A1 that I got a really good deal on used. Not much of a test but since I bought it I only put about 500 rounds through it with no issues. It's a great shooter but I don't shoot it much since I got a Benelli M1.

Mark/MO
10-21-08, 18:05
I've had both an 870 and a 590. Both were fine for their purposes. I ended up trading the 870 off for something. The safety was always an issue as I'm left handed. I later acquired a 590 w/ 20" barrel extremely reasonable as part of another trade and still have it. For me the safety placement is how they ought to be done but again I'm a lefty. The 870 was undeniably smoother operating but the 590, while a bit rougher, has been working fine for me.

As an aside I shot in a 3-gun match this weekend and watched 2 much more expensive "tactical" semi-auto choke and go down on the line. I'm not speculating why or casting dispersions at all but it feels good to follow that up with your $200 gun and run without a hitch.

m24shooter
10-22-08, 08:40
m24shooter,

Get whatever floats your boat. The OP originally asked about two specific shotguns. The Mossy will work, but it is not going to be as robust as the 870.
I've got both. My question was in regard to the seeming discounting of an aluminum receiver, as there are many proven platforms with aluminum receivers.

toddackerman
10-24-08, 19:44
Get the 870, it has a steel receiver. The Mossy uses aluminum.

Please read the initial post...he said Remington 870 "EXPRESS" which is an aluninum receiver. The rmington 870 Wingmaster is steel.

Hound_va
10-24-08, 20:47
Please read the initial post...he said Remington 870 "EXPRESS" which is an aluninum receiver. The rmington 870 Wingmaster is steel.

The 870 express is a steel receiver. The receiver itself differs from the wingmaster by virtue of finish.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express.asp

ST911
10-24-08, 21:45
Please read the initial post...he said Remington 870 "EXPRESS" which is an aluninum receiver. The rmington 870 Wingmaster is steel.

This------>
The 870 express is a steel receiver.

The Express is economized in several ways, but an aluminum receiver is not one of them.

padwan
10-25-08, 10:20
If you are right handed, I'd recommend the 870. Worked with the 590 on an Awerbuck class and had the safety button seize on Day 2. Round count was modest at that time. I think I had about ~400 rounds of birdshot through the gun.

Awerbuck mentioned he sees this problem with the Mossbergs in his classes.

Am not sure if the new 870 keylock trigger groups will have similar issues but if your Express doesn't have the keylock, I would not worry much.

As usual YMMV.

ST911
10-25-08, 12:45
If you are right handed, I'd recommend the 870. Worked with the 590 on an Awerbuck class and had the safety button seize on Day 2. Round count was modest at that time. I think I had about ~400 rounds of birdshot through the gun. Awerbuck mentioned he sees this problem with the Mossbergs in his classes..

Can you describe this "seizure" in greater detail? What happened, and what resolved it?

padwan
10-26-08, 02:18
The safety becomes difficult to slide. By that, it requires a really firm downward push on the button and then sliding it forward. It starts to get harder and harder to operate. This was resolved initially by keeping the button forward and riding it during shooting.

After this, the safety felt mushy in which case it slid back under recoil. Despite riding the safety button with my thumb, it backed up far enough to cost me follow up shots during several drills. At that point, someone more familiar with mossbergs took the gun apart and installed a new bearing (maybe a spring too, I couldn't see as I was loaned a different gun to work the drills with while the Mossberg was being attended to.)

The explanation given to me was that the ball bearing which locks the safety in either position, migrates under hard use. When it is dislodged from its position, it makes the button really stiff. With more use, the bearing drops into the guts of the gun so nothing locks the safety in either position.

I was the only one who suffered that fate in class, but in my regular visits to the range, all of my buddies have experienced this more than once, as they all shoot 590s and I am the lone 870 guy.

Am unaware if there are armorer's recommendations as to what maintenance checks and frequency is required to pre-empt this bug. What I can say is that it is most disconcerting to be on target and not be able to complete the shot because the button won't budge. It is equally disconcerting to be on target and not have the trigger budge.

It didn't cost me much at class, but I shivered to think what would have happened to me if that were a home defense problem.

texasrangers
10-28-08, 01:15
well i was really leaning toward the 590A1 until reading this last post. Thank you for all the info I have a decision to make I guess the 870 would definitely be the better choice. Maybe an 870 Tactical? I don't know what I will do, I really liked the idea of having 9 00 rounds ready to go.

m24shooter
10-28-08, 17:07
If you are right handed, I'd recommend the 870. Worked with the 590 on an Awerbuck class and had the safety button seize on Day 2. Round count was modest at that time. I think I had about ~400 rounds of birdshot through the gun.

Awerbuck mentioned he sees this problem with the Mossbergs in his classes.

Am not sure if the new 870 keylock trigger groups will have similar issues but if your Express doesn't have the keylock, I would not worry much.

As usual YMMV.
To clarify, this is the 590, not the 590A1, correct?

El Cid
10-31-08, 22:00
I think you'll be fine with the 870, but I'd take a 590 over one any day. My 590 has been eating everything I feed it since 1993. I never learned to appreciate its dual extractors until I started using 870s for work a few years ago. Now I know how to slam the butt of an 870 on the ground while racking the action. Sometimes (too often) it's the only way to get the 870 to extract a shell.

padwan
11-02-08, 22:04
To clarify, this is the 590, not the 590A1, correct?

I am unsure of the differences between both models, but the one I used had the parkerized finish, synthetic furniture, full length magazine tube, bayonet lug and factory ghost ring sights. The barrel was also thicker than those that came on the 500's I've shot before.

m24shooter
11-03-08, 11:38
The 590A1 has a metal safety button, heavier barrel, and metal trigger guard.
The 590 has a thinner barrel (usually, although I think the heavy barrel can be on some of them as with the 500A or M) and plastic safety button and trigger group.
The problem you describe is common with the 590 (or at least not unheard of). That's why I was curious about which variant you were shooting.

Redmanfms
11-05-08, 20:09
I'd stick to an 870 Police Magnum if I were you. I'll leave it at that.

gunner757
01-25-09, 21:39
I have th 870 tactical and i love it. I run with the mossbergs at work because thats what they issue us. I must say hands down 870.

tpd223
01-27-09, 02:41
We have 150+ Mossberg 500s and 590s in our program. I have seen the safety issue described on one occasion.
Everything breaks, or fails. I've seen broken extractors and missing shell stops on 870s.

I prefer the 590a1 in particular, and the Mossbergs in general, as they are easier to work on and detail strip and clean.
I also like that the safety is ambi, and there is no shell lifter in the way when loading the magazine.

austinN4
01-27-09, 03:28
I just can't resist a Mossy vs Remmy thread. I know, I am sick. Ford vs Chevy threads are fun also.

To start off with, to the OP, when you ask a question like this what you mostly get is personal opinion from people that own one or the other. And guess what? The one they own is the best! But does that make it right for you?

I have owned both at the same time - an 18.5" 870 and a 20" M590A1. They both work, and they are both reliable. Yes, the 870 Police is smoother out of the box, but both the 870 Express and Mossbergs will smooth out the more you shoot them. No big deal IMO.

My observations from shooting both: As others have said, I (notice I didn't say you) prefer the position of the safety and slide release on the Mossberg. I also prefer the dual extractors of the Mossberg, and the shell lifter that doesn't get in the way during a stressed reload.

The M590A1 is built like a tank, but, to me, is noticably heavier than a regular 590 (non M590A1). The plastic safety on the regular 590 doesn't bother me as I would immediately replace it anyway with a metal one as the plastic ones known to break. But I also replaced the safety on my 870 with a Vang Big Dome.

And the plastic trigger guard on the regular 590 doesn't bother me at all as I have yet to hear of one breaking. If I carry a plastic pistol (S&W M&P), why should a plastic trigger guard bother me?

As M24 pointed out, yes, Mossberg uses an aluminum receiver, but so does my N4 Carbine. This doesn't concern me in the least.

Bottom line for me: I sold the M590A1 because it was too long and too heavy. But perfect for me would be a regular 590 (no heavy barrel) in 18.5". I still have the 870 but it will most likely be sold to fund the purchase of a Mossberg 930SPX autoloader.

My advice to you is to try out all guns that you are considering. Shoot them if you can, but handle them at an absolute minimum, paying particular attention to how they fit you when you shoulder them and the position of the the safety and slide release. Only you can decide what is best for you. But either will work.

mario
01-27-09, 06:15
For me its a no brainer - Mossberg 590A1. They're equally tough and durable but in a stressful situation sliding the safety forward feels almost natural vs trying to remember whether to push remmys crossbolt safety to the right or left.

Shark
01-28-09, 01:56
For me its a no brainer - Mossberg 590A1. They're equally tough and durable but in a stressful situation sliding the safety forward feels almost natural vs trying to remember whether to push remmys crossbolt safety to the right or left.

As "Hoot" from Blackhawk Down would say, "My finger is the Safety!"

mario
01-28-09, 06:16
Thats a good movie line but in the real world of war it's too dangerous. Picture 5 or 6 GIs embarking on a mission and sitting in a chopper or in a Hummer with loaded rifles or shotguns in hand and no safety lever? Nope-not how we did it in the 25ID

Gutshot John
01-28-09, 10:53
Both are excellent guns, but this is mostly about preference.

Another thing to consider about the safety is that the Mossy is more ambidextrous if you're lefty.

I have an 870 and had to spend some money to convert it. I kind of wish I had gotten a mossberg.

That said parts for an 870 are everywhere. It's a very popular gun.

USAFCATM
02-01-09, 09:21
I currently have both a couple Mossbergs and a couple Remingtons. Either one are going to work just fine. I don't see the alunimum receiver as being a real issue on the Mossberg since there are plenty of alunimum receiver weapons (M-16 for example) that work just fine as well.
The plastic safety is a problem though on the Mossberg but that's a $10-15 fix, no worse than having to replace a safety button on a Remington that came with the J-lock safety. Speaking of safety buttons, if you prefer conventional stocks,the Mossberg is IMHO the better design. However, if you are going with a pistol-grip buttstock, you might want to look at the Remington since the tang mounted safety can be a PITA to get to on the Mossberg in this configuration.
The Remington is smoother out of the box but the Mossberg will loosen up with time and useage.
Where the Remington does have a couple advantages are with adding (or removing) a larger magazine tube (it can be done on the Mossberg but you are going to replace both the magazine tube as well as the barrel) and the aftermarket parts available.
Where the Mossberg has an advantage is the shell stops and ejector are easy to replace. Remington stakes these parts in and replacement requires re-staking them in place. Also, the number of times you can do this if finite. I seen a few OLD 870s in the vault at my last base that were one, maybe two restaking jobs of going back to depot because they were almost out of receiver metal that wasn't restaked already.
In any case, you aren't going to go wrong with either one.

panzerr
02-03-09, 08:10
The problem I had with the Mossberg I carried along with my M4 in Iraq was the safety. Being on the top of the receiver too often it was bumped and disengaged simply from handling it in vehicles and on foot. I found myself constantly checking the safety to ensure that it was on -a good habit, but one that I would rather not have to do out of necessity.

Mikey
02-03-09, 09:30
870.

Smoother action, better safety, better safety location.

woodandsteel
02-07-09, 10:08
Maybe this isn't the right thread to ask this question in, since it is a little off topic. But, the 870 Tactical, is that a decorated up 870 Express, or is it more in line with the 870 police model?

austinN4
02-07-09, 12:29
But, the 870 Tactical, is that a decorated up 870 Express, or is it more in line with the 870 police model?
I believe it is a decorated Express.

gunner757
02-14-09, 11:42
in regards to the safety position on both the mossberg and the remington, i prefer the safety position on the 870, and only because i am running a knoxxstock. For me with my setup it is a lot more natural and smooth to just run my trigger finger across the safety prior to getting on the trigger. Of course that is just with my setup. At work i run a 500 with a pistol gip for breaching purposes and it is a lot less advantageous for me in my opinion to reach up over with my thumb to disengage the safety, however for all intents and purposes it is strictly used for a breaching tool and not a lifesaver, so it really doesnt matter. Just my opinion and again with my particular setup. It might not work out best for you. Just something to think about.

agr1279
02-14-09, 18:32
I used to be a big fan of the Mossberg until I went thought the Remington 870 Armorer's course. That thing will work with just about everything broken. You can get it in a left handed model or if you want a trigger group set up for left handed operation. The trigger group is pretty standard. It will work in the 1187 and a few others.

Dan

Slater
02-16-09, 08:07
Used to have a Mossy 590. Great gun, and the only adverse thing I noticed was how crappy the finish was on the receiver. It would scuff badly just from carrying it slung and have it brush against my hip. Guess one could always have a new, tougher finish applied, though.

THT
02-18-09, 18:59
I've only owned my M590A1 but I don't have any complaints about it. Both Remington and Mossberg offer excellent shotguns so you really can't go wrong with either.

eklypse
02-24-09, 00:01
After having shot both on several ocasions these are my observations.
Of course you are looking at the 590 so some of this will not apply.


Both are fine fighting shotguns.

What it boils down to for you is...

Do you want more than 5 in the tube?

If so does the Mossberg you are looking at have the 8 shot tube?

If not you cannot add a mag extension (unless its a 590 18.5).

If you answered yes to the first and no to the second the Remington is the way to go as you can add mag extensions to those.


Which one fits your budget better?

Which one are you the most comfortable with?

Some slight differences include but are not limited to...

500 shell elevator sits flush with the bottom of the bolt on a closed action. (With this design you will never see a malfunction like described below and IMHO is the only real advantage of the Mossberg 500 over the Remington 870.)

870 shell lifter hangs down and must be pushed out of the way to load the shell in the mag tube. (Note: This design has been known to drop a shell on top of the lifter and under the bolt (mostly due to user error) causing a nasty jam. Remington upgraded their design and added a flex tab system that makes this easier to clear but does not fix this problem. Also not everyone experiences this problem.)

500 mag tube is sealed at the muzzle end this prevents the use a mag tube extensions and makes it more difficult to change the spring and follower.

870 has the "clean out" mag tube which allows you to switch followers and springs without removing the mag tube. This also allows the use of mag tube extensions.

500 safety is located on top of the receiver. (although a sister company called Maverick makes the model 88 which is basically a 500 with a trigger guard safety and some other small differences.)

870 has the trigger guard safety.

500 slide release is located behind the trigger guard.

870 slide release is in front of the trigger guard.

500 has a few more parts when field stripped for cleaning mainly because the shell stop arm, shell release arm and lifter on a Remington are all part of the trigger group. On the Mossberg these are individual parts.

I'mGatMan!
03-16-09, 16:29
After having shot both on several ocasions these are my observations.
Of course you are looking at the 590 so some of this will not apply.


Both are fine fighting shotguns.

What it boils down to for you is...

Do you want more than 5 in the tube?

If so does the Mossberg you are looking at have the 8 shot tube?

If not you cannot add a mag extension (unless its a 590 18.5).

If you answered yes to the first and no to the second the Remington is the way to go as you can add mag extensions to those.


Which one fits your budget better?

Which one are you the most comfortable with?

Some slight differences include but are not limited to...

500 shell elevator sits flush with the bottom of the bolt on a closed action. (With this design you will never see a malfunction like described below and IMHO is the only real advantage of the Mossberg 500 over the Remington 870.)

870 shell lifter hangs down and must be pushed out of the way to load the shell in the mag tube. (Note: This design has been known to drop a shell on top of the lifter and under the bolt (mostly due to user error) causing a nasty jam. Remington upgraded their design and added a flex tab system that makes this easier to clear but does not fix this problem. Also not everyone experiences this problem.)

500 mag tube is sealed at the muzzle end this prevents the use a mag tube extensions and makes it more difficult to change the spring and follower.

870 has the "clean out" mag tube which allows you to switch followers and springs without removing the mag tube. This also allows the use of mag tube extensions.

500 safety is located on top of the receiver. (although a sister company called Maverick makes the model 88 which is basically a 500 with a trigger guard safety and some other small differences.)

870 has the trigger guard safety.

500 slide release is located behind the trigger guard.

870 slide release is in front of the trigger guard.

500 has a few more parts when field stripped for cleaning mainly because the shell stop arm, shell release arm and lifter on a Remington are all part of the trigger group. On the Mossberg these are individual parts.

Thanks for this post. It went WAY further in explaining the real differences than anything I've read so far. Maybe someone could create a "chart" like the one Rob (I believe) did for the M4 manufacturers. It would DEFINITELY be helpful to noobs.

Jason

Alaskapopo
03-16-09, 21:39
Pretty much a matter of opinion. Most people lean towards the 870s because the action is so smooth. Mossbergs are rougher, but much more sturdy and reliable in my experience.

I have had problems in the reliability area with 2 of the 3 Mossbergs I owned. I know thats not a scientific sample but its enough to make me not trust them. What the issue was is this. Both the 500 I had with a 18 inch barrel and the 590 I had would fail to extract slugs or full power buck about 1 in 4 rounds. It was so bad I had to use a cleaning rod to get the shells out. It worked fine with bird shot. But no matter what brand they would not work with slugs or full power buck. Remington 870 are the gold standard by which all pump shotguns are judged. They run and run well and take neglect and abuse well from my experience.
Pat

Thomas M-4
03-27-09, 12:44
A lot of people have posted good points on the rem 870 or mossberg 500/590
so I gueess ill put in my .02 cents I own a mossberg 590 sp with ghost ring sights.
but i didnt see anybody post that you can unload a mossberg by just reaching up to the magazine tube and press the shell catch the round drops right in your hand you dont even have to take it off your shoulder to do it. Your not going to do that with a 870. I will give the 870 something the ones I have seen do have chromelined bore.

Alaskapopo
03-27-09, 13:23
A lot of people have posted good points on the rem 870 or mossberg 500/590
so I gueess ill put in my .02 cents I own a mossberg 590 sp with ghost ring sights.
but i didnt see anybody post that you can unload a mossberg by just reaching up to the magazine tube and press the shell catch the round drops right in your hand you dont even have to take it off your shoulder to do it. Your not going to do that with a 870. I will give the 870 something the ones I have seen do have chromelined bore.

You can and should unload an 870 but pushing on the shell catch levers and not by cycling the rounds through the gun. Its not a hard trick to do it.
Pat

Thomas M-4
03-27-09, 14:04
You can and should unload an 870 but pushing on the shell catch levers and not by cycling the rounds through the gun. Its not a hard trick to do it.
Pat

Mossberg is a lot more easy I have tried it on both brands and everybody that i have shown this to agrees.Try it on both models make your own choice.

Alaskapopo
03-27-09, 14:17
Mossberg is a lot more easy I have tried it on both brands and everybody that i have shown this to agrees.Try it on both models make your own choice.

I don't know how much more easy it could be because its easy as cake with an 870.
Pat

Thomas M-4
03-27-09, 14:56
I don't know how much more easy it could be because its easy as cake with an 870.
Pat

Look all I said was try both models make your own choice.But if you most know
you have to press and hold the shell holder out of the way to press the shell catch on the 870. Mossberg you just press shell catch thats it.

Both models are very good pump shotguns you can not go wrong with ether one
far as i am concerned they both have there +s and -s

m24shooter
03-27-09, 14:57
but i didnt see anybody post that you can unload a mossberg by just reaching up to the magazine tube and press the shell catch the round drops right in your hand you dont even have to take it off your shoulder to do it. Your not going to do that with a 870.
The only difference is that when you reach into the receiver to depress the shell stop on the Remington you are already moving the lifter out of the way, so it isn't that big of a difference under those circumstances.

I will give the 870 something the ones I have seen do have chromelined bore.
What 870s are chrome lined?

Alaskapopo
03-27-09, 15:24
Look all I said was try both models make your own choice.But if you most know
you have to press and hold the shell holder out of the way to press the shell catch on the 870. Mossberg you just press shell catch thats it.

Both models are very good pump shotguns you can not go wrong with ether one
far as i am concerned they both have there +s and -s

I respectfully disagree on your assessment of Mossbergs. 2 of the 3 I have owned were unreliable. I don't trust them and probably never will again.
Pat

Thomas M-4
03-27-09, 16:31
The only difference is that when you reach into the receiver to depress the shell stop on the Remington you are already moving the lifter out of the way, so it isn't that big of a difference under those circumstances.

What 870s are chrome lined?

The few that i have played with had chromelined bores I dont know if its a standard
item pretty sure sombody in here would know more.

Alaskapopo
03-27-09, 16:38
The few that i have played with had chromelined bores I dont know if its a standard
item pretty sure sombody in here would know more.

Are you sure it was just not steel in the white?
Pat

m24shooter
03-27-09, 16:52
The few that i have played with had chromelined bores I dont know if its a standard
item pretty sure sombody in here would know more.
It is certainly not standard and I've never heard of an 870 (even in the Mil/LE line, which is where you would expect it to be) having a chrome bore.
How do you know they had chrome bores?

Thomas M-4
03-27-09, 16:57
Are you sure it was just not steel in the white?
Pat

It was older model 16 ga that some one had sitting in the back of a leaky car trunk
it had a far amount of rust all over it enought that parts of the reciver where pitted.
I was going to burnish the bore I made one pass with some steel whool looked down the bore it was a mirror all the way up to the crown then you could see flaking
of about 1/2 inch from the crown. looked at the steel wool and you could see silvery
light grey specs. I figured the rust had gotten under the chrome lining.

The other one was a 12ga it looked like it had chromelined it might have been in white it but it was well taken care of. 16ga was almost rusted solid though exept
for the bore.

Thomas M-4
03-27-09, 17:37
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=235650

I didnt realize that was so rare just found thread.