View Full Version : Interesting observation regarding LMT BCG's and Colt BCG's.
RobertTheTexan
03-28-18, 22:21
So I've had an LMT BCG up on the E&E for a few days. Started with what I thought was a fair price for the very minimal wear. A price I had never actually seen a used one sell for. Ended up lowering it when I when I had no traction and then lowered it even again. Before I lowered it, I pinged one of my M4C buddies and said, "Hey bud, I bet you $5 bucks I can put my brand new Colt FA BCG up on the E&E and price match the LMT to it, and the Colt will go like free Belgian Waffles at a fatman convention.
I was right.
Now this does puzzle me. No doubt Colt BCG's are good quality and all that. But I have ran and beat up and pried on my LMT BCG's and not even taken a scratch. The Enhanced BCG is highly desired in suppressed SBR's. Granted this is the standard full auto BCG, but I was just surprised beyond surprised (Whatever that emotion is.) that the LMT has been sitting out there like a redheaded step-child, and the Colt not only sold quickly, but had more than one person asking about it.
I know it's about "supply and demand", I kinda live in that world, but I've never really heard nor seen LMT playing 2nd fiddle to anyone really. I've never shopped for a Colt FA BCG online, but I can tell you for sure that when I'm looking for an L7D3 BCG, that more often than not - they are sold out. Everywhere. And when I do find them, they'll run a good $199 - $225. Another interesting facet of this who BCG dealio.
I guess this is one of those things that make me go "Hmmmm"
Now i need to go back and see if he agreed to my $5 dolla bet so I can collect my dollas! :sarcastic:
People don't know what is what so they buy the name.
In a market where people don't have time to do the research, a Colt Expanse rifle would probably sell for more than a basic BCM carbine even though they are nothing alike.
RobertTheTexan
03-29-18, 01:23
People don't know what is what so they buy the name.
In a market where people don't have time to do the research, a Colt Expanse rifle would probably sell for more than a basic BCM carbine even though they are nothing alike.
In my mind, yours is the only logical explanation.
As an aside one of the guys asking for the Colt BCG picked up the LMT after I mentioned it to him. He got a good really good deal, and in that respect, I’m happy for him. Does our E&E good when people find (or have it pointed out to them.) a good deal.
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This is M4C.... how many years has a good portion of this forum been preaching the gospel of Colt?
I'm pretty sure that may have something to do with it. ;)
RobertTheTexan
03-29-18, 08:20
This is M4C.... how many years has a good portion of this forum been preaching the gospel of Colt?
I'm pretty sure that may have something to do with it. ;)
Are you saying there is a hidden sect, a secret organization within M4Carbine that the “C” stands for Colt - “M4Colt”??
Egads man!!! :jester:
ETA: except it’s not really hidden is it? Lol
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In my mind, yours is the only logical explanation.
As an aside one of the guys asking for the Colt BCG picked up the LMT after I mentioned it to him. He got a good really good deal, and in that respect, I’m happy for him. Does our E&E good when people find (or have it pointed out to them.) a good deal.
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I've seen it so many times. The "most informed" purchaser has seen "the chart" or reads Recoil magazine. Guys who actually know more than that are basically a firearms anomaly. Works in everyone's favor.
If you have a LMT part or BCM stuff sell it in the EE and as soon as a buyer comes along that needs it, it goes to the proper home. Might take some time for that "need" to manifest but it all works out in the end. High end optics are even harder.
But Colt stuff, just put it on GB and let it roll. Somebody will buy it.
RobertTheTexan
03-29-18, 11:37
I've seen it so many times. The "most informed" purchaser has seen "the chart" or reads Recoil magazine. Guys who actually know more than that are basically a firearms anomaly. Works in everyone's favor.
If you have a LMT part or BCM stuff sell it in the EE and as soon as a buyer comes along that needs it, it goes to the proper home. Might take some time for that "need" to manifest but it all works out in the end. High end optics are even harder.
But Colt stuff, just put it on GB and let it roll. Somebody will buy it.
You know now that I've been thinking more on this, it does bear with what I've seen here. Now to see this mindset times a bazillion, just put certain name brand parts over on TOS. I bet if it weren't online, it would resemble a Black Friday sale at Walmart.
Sell me your LMT gear [emoji16] they're not talked about here like they once we're. Grant isn't selling them anymore and I don't see them in my area at all. I don't see Colt or BCM either. I've given up locally and order my guns and parts. The ignorance is frustrating. I'll only buy LMT, BCM or Colt BCG's.
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RobertTheTexan
03-29-18, 16:40
Sell me your LMT gear [emoji16] they're not talked about here like they once we're. Grant isn't selling them anymore and I don't see them in my area at all. I don't see Colt or BCM either. I've given up locally and order my guns and parts. The ignorance is frustrating. I'll only buy LMT, BCM or Colt BCG's.
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I'm going to give a Centurion Arms BCG a run next weekend, going in my Centurion Arms barrel. I was running an LMT enhanced carrier/standard LMT bolt, but upgraded to the Sionics complete bolt thingamabob setup. I think it's too pretty to sell though. :nono:.
doc had turned me onto the guy selling several Colt's and I picked it up as a "backup" and it was a good buy. But I have enough LMT's for back up and a few enhanced carriers as well. However, if I decide to get rid of anymore I'll fire off a FRAGO your way. :dirol:
I'd buy an LMT Enhanced BCG over a Colt in a heartbeat, and I like Colt.
Am I the only one that wishes FN sold more than just barrels to the public?
RetroRevolver77
03-29-18, 21:20
Am I the only one that wishes FN sold more than just barrels to the public?
I thought they sold complete rifles.
I thought they sold complete rifles.
They do.
I should have worded things better. I wish they sold the BCG's (and/or A2 stocks) without having to buy a complete upper or rifle.
Neither my budget nor patience allow me to buy either.
RetroRevolver77
03-30-18, 07:52
They do.
I should have worded things better. I wish they sold the BCG's (and/or A2 stocks) without having to buy a complete upper or rifle.
Neither my budget nor patience allow me to buy either.
Yes but maybe FN is afraid you'd put their upper on a plumb crazy or poverty pony lower.
They have standards.
RobertTheTexan
03-30-18, 08:52
Yes but maybe FN is afraid you'd put their upper on a plumb crazy or poverty pony lower.
They have standards.
Maybe they are afraid some YouTube Rising Star would put their barrel/upper on a PSA stock with ModBus furniture and ModBus sights with an NC Star scope with its RTZ mount. The recipe of champions. Why? Because YouTube says so if course. :jester:
ETA: For reference ModBus is interchangeable with MOE furniture and also the Magpul MBUS folding sights.
:jester: x 20
At one point, I believe LMT switched to MIM gas keys on some of their bolt carriers. People complained, then LMT switched back.
I'm not saying those were good or bad decisions. But things like that can cause people to just go with a product or company which (they think) is more consistent and trusted.
Joe Mamma
Off topic but does anyone actually have a valid experience with a bad Anderson Arms stripped lower? I figure it is the internet wisdom that is going around. I have 6 of them and three of them are SBRed. All have CMT/Stag Lower parts kits and none have had an issue. So I was just wondering.
Or is this the usual internet talk about stuff that people "heard"?
RobertTheTexan
03-30-18, 10:04
Maybe they are afraid some YouTube Rising Star would put their barrel/upper on a PSA stock with ModBus furniture and ModBus sights with an NC Star scope with its RTZ mount. The recipe of champions. Why? Because YouTube says so if course. :jester:
ETA: For reference ModBus is interchangeable with MOE furniture and also the Magpul MBUS folding sights.
:jester: x 20
Let me clarify my point. My quote was more about a dude that posted a video on M4C where he didn’t even know what his MOE stock was called, or his MBUS sights, or his FSP.
Me personally? I’ve have Anderson Arms lowers and uppers on builds and they run like scalded dogs. My point wasn’t even about PSA. It was about the dude calling his Magpul furniture Modbus - which I found pretty hilarious. Just to clarify.
1_click_off
03-30-18, 10:24
Modbus is very useful, was using it just yesterday.
RobertTheTexan
03-30-18, 10:27
Is it possible we are looking at the effects of.....The Kool-Aid Syndrome? No one ever accuses another of “drinking the Kool-Aid”, but this (original topic) does smell of the Kool-Aid.
Everytime I do some google research on LMT BCG’s, I find a thread discussing rough finishes on the carrier “rails” and insufficient springs on the lobster tail extractors. I know LMT makes good stuff and I’m not knocking them. But this may at least partly explain why they move slowly on EE.
Side note: anybody here using enhanced bolts with either an enhanced or regular carrier?
RobertTheTexan
03-30-18, 11:39
Everytime I do some google research on LMT BCG’s, I find a thread discussing rough finishes on the carrier “rails” and insufficient springs on the lobster tail extractors. I know LMT makes good stuff and I’m not knocking them. But this may at least partly explain why they move slowly on EE.
Side note: anybody here using enhanced bolts with either an enhanced or regular carrier?
I use Enhanced carriers in my SBR’s. It’s my understanding that the enhanced bolt was designed for use in a 16”+ AR’s and was not meant for short barrel AR’s
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Maybe they are afraid some YouTube Rising Star would put their barrel/upper on a PSA stock with ModBus furniture and ModBus sights with an NC Star scope with its RTZ mount. The recipe of champions. Why? Because YouTube says so if course. :jester:
ETA: For reference ModBus is interchangeable with MOE furniture and also the Magpul MBUS folding sights.
:jester: x 20
Wait, does that mean I can't put my $10 Nerf red dot and my $30 "just as good as milspec" bcg on my rifle build from acquired FN take-off parts?
Off topic but does anyone actually have a valid experience with a bad Anderson Arms stripped lower? I figure it is the internet wisdom that is going around. I have 6 of them and three of them are SBRed. All have CMT/Stag Lower parts kits and none have had an issue. So I was just wondering.
Or is this the usual internet talk about stuff that people "heard"?
I don't buy Andersons because I don't care for the logo, but I'm all over inexpensive lowers - I have Alexandria Pro-Fabs, Noreens as well as a PSA. None have given me a lick of trouble.
And yes, before someone chimes in, I totally get that I'm a sample of one.
I think one of the problems is that some people who are regarded as SME's on internet forums have agendas which many of us don't recognize or consider. In many cases these SME's are totally competent to give advice, but have a bias based on with whom they are professionally associated.
You wouldn't expect a Ford salesman to tell you a Chevy is just as good, would you? So why would you expect someone to tell you, 'yeah, with today's CNC machines, it ain't that hard to make a within spec lower' or 'you know there aren't dozens of factories turning out springs and detents for LPK's, we all pretty much buy from the same jobbers.'
I just take things with a grain of salt.
RobertTheTexan
03-30-18, 14:19
I
So why would you expect someone to tell you, 'yeah, with today's CNC machines, it ain't that hard to make a within spec lower' or 'you know there aren't dozens of factories turning out springs and detents for LPK's, we all pretty much buy from the same jobbers.'
I just take things with a grain of salt.
Integrity? Why wouldn’t they identify the fact they are a paid representative of whatever organization, for example, BCM, and their comments should be considered with that in mind?
It doesn’t seem to be that hard to do.
Yet, I’m not naive to believe that happens all the time.
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RobertTheTexan
03-30-18, 14:46
Off topic but does anyone actually have a valid experience with a bad Anderson Arms stripped lower? I figure it is the internet wisdom that is going around. I have 6 of them and three of them are SBRed. All have CMT/Stag Lower parts kits and none have had an issue. So I was just wondering.
Or is this the usual internet talk about stuff that people "heard"?
I have no idea of the numbers, but I would bet there are far more “regurgitation” naysayers than hands on nay-sayers. Aside from the regurgitators, I’m sure there are folks who find Anderson or PSA, or DelTon, beneath their tastes. Heck I’ve read comments on this forum that said the same for Aero. I think I’ve only built 6 AR’s with Anderson lowers including an 80% that I’m almost positive was an Anderson, but I’ve built 12 AR’s with Aero lowers, several of them with Aero uppers, and like you have had absolutely ZERO out of spec, or even a bad finish issue with them. That’s a little more than a sample of one.
Some people just talk out the side of their neck.
Speaking of inexpensive lowers don’t you have one with a pretty high round count on it? :neo:
I have no idea of the numbers, but I would bet there are far more “regurgitation” naysayers than hands on nay-sayers. Aside from the regurgitators, I’m sure there are folks who find Anderson or PSA, or DelTon, beneath their tastes. Heck I’ve read comments on this forum that said the same for Aero. I think I’ve only built 6 AR’s with Anderson lowers including an 80% that I’m almost positive was an Anderson, but I’ve built 12 AR’s with Aero lowers, several of them with Aero uppers, and like you have had absolutely ZERO out of spec, or even a bad finish issue with them. That’s a little more than a sample of one.
Some people just talk out the side of their neck.
Speaking of inexpensive lowers don’t you have one with a pretty high round count on it? :neo:
As far as Aero, I've had numerous uppers and lowers from them (along with a few sets of rails) without issue. Granted the round count is usually only around 1-1.5k, but as far as dimensions, finish, "spec" things go have never had any problems. Started buying their "blemish" items and so far only had one of maybe half a dozen actually have a noticeable blemish (finger print in the coating of a dust cover) that didn't require an electron microscope to find.
There are so many Colt fans that people know they can resell Colt easiest. I put Colt , LMT ( standard BCG) and BCM in the same category.
Straight Shooter
03-30-18, 16:10
Almost NOBODY knows who LMT is. Everytime I show my LMT Defender to someone, they think its an "offbrand"!
Integrity? Why wouldn’t they identify the fact they are a paid representative of whatever organization, for example, BCM, and their comments should be considered with that in mind?
It doesn’t seem to be that hard to do.
It isn't, and on this forum, apparently the rules require you to disclose such affiliations.
The problem is that many folks aren't discerning enough to factor that into the equation. Rather you get 'if so and so says Brand-X is a piece of crap, it's a piece of crap' without any other need for further thought on their part.
Everytime I do some google research on LMT BCG’s, I find a thread discussing rough finishes on the carrier “rails” and insufficient springs on the lobster tail extractors. I know LMT makes good stuff and I’m not knocking them. But this may at least partly explain why they move slowly on EE.
Side note: anybody here using enhanced bolts with either an enhanced or regular carrier?
I have complete EBCG's in two of my carbines. Not a shitload of rounds through them but they work fine and clean up real easy (if that's your thing). One reason they may move slowly is the $$$. They ain't cheap.
I have a third EBCG (the newest Gen, with the less shiny finish on the bolt) dipped in oil and wrapped in a gallon ziplock bag for some future use. This one is a semi carrier though, the other two are FA carriers.
Straight Shooter
03-30-18, 17:21
I have complete EBCG's in two of my carbines. Not a shitload of rounds through them but they work fine and clean up real easy (if that's your thing). One reason they may move slowly is the $$$. They ain't cheap.
I have a third EBCG (the newest Gen, with the less shiny finish on the bolt) dipped in oil and wrapped in a gallon ziplock bag for some future use. This one is a semi carrier though, the other two are FA carriers.
Always wondered WHY LMT of all people uses the semi-auto carrier. Anyone know?
RobertTheTexan
03-30-18, 17:44
It isn't, and on this forum, apparently the rules require you to disclose such affiliations.
The problem is that many folks aren't discerning enough to factor that into the equation. Rather you get 'if so and so says Brand-X is a piece of crap, it's a piece of crap' without any other need for further thought on their part.
Roger that. This is one thing I’m extremely grateful for. A friend who has BTDT and doesn’t sell me some party line, but actually picks up the phone, calls me and will spend half an hour explaining the why’s and ins and outs of a pending decision or even just a question I had asked. From weapon to chest rigs to ifaks.
Guys that don’t have that kind of relationship, as you said don’t do their due diligence and end up not only buying the party line, but turning around and selling it too.
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Almost NOBODY knows who LMT is. Everytime I show my LMT Defender to someone, they think its an "offbrand"!
That is just funny.
I've seen it so many times. The "most informed" purchaser has seen "the chart" or reads Recoil magazine. Guys who actually know more than that are basically a firearms anomaly. Works in everyone's favor.
If you have a LMT part or BCM stuff sell it in the EE and as soon as a buyer comes along that needs it, it goes to the proper home. Might take some time for that "need" to manifest but it all works out in the end. High end optics are even harder.
But Colt stuff, just put it on GB and let it roll. Somebody will buy it.
I got a friend like that. He is heavy into NFA stuff but he will only buy Colts. Even after shooting my BCM uppers.
I got a friend like that. He is heavy into NFA stuff but he will only buy Colts. Even after shooting my BCM uppers.
And...what’s the problem? :)
That is just funny.
No, its a good thing. Means more quality parts available for the rest of us. Also a reason why I like that FN isn't mentioned as much on this site.
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