View Full Version : FN-15 What's the consensus? new Roll Mark
I already have a 6920 but was looking for another Colt when I ran across a NIB FN-15. This one does not have the billboard FN logo on the right side of the receiver. The left side has what appears to be a new laser engraved FN logo. So my main question is, is the FN-15 GTG? I really don't want a FN vs Colt battle, just give me the goods on the FN.
51259
ffhounddog
03-29-18, 13:46
They do have the Military contract to produce M4s and I had one overseas and it was good to go. In fact I would take a new FN over my New Colt if the price was the same.
Have had a FN15 tactical for about a year ... zero issues. Reliable and accurate. Not a budget option however.
Well besides the roll mark...I'm looking to add another AR...my LGS has a FN-15 Tatical...$1500 will probably give some sort of deal but this rifle didn't seem any nicer than my Colt which I got for $600 less. trying to figure out what I am missing with the FN-15? I'd rather pay an extra $450-500 for another knight SR15.
Here’s the thing, the commercial FN guns are not made to the TDP like the Colt 6920’s. They’re fine, but the quality is not the same. I also understand them to be batch MP/HP tested instead of individual. I have an FN-15 rifle & it has been a great gun. I did replace the BCG with a spare Colt because FN’s gas key staking was shit, but otherwise it’s been a fine gun. I would not buy one over a Colt or BCM though unless you’re getting a really good deal. I’ll add that I only bought my FN, because at the time, I add an itch for an A4 & the Colts were sold out.
What part of the fn15 isn’t the same ?...what’s not good about them?
I have heard it said from reputable sources that the FN Tac II "gtg".
Gunnar da Wolf
04-01-18, 15:06
I’ve spoken with two different FN employees on two different FN occasions. They both basically said that all their FN guns are made in the same FN plant by the same FN guys. All the parts come out of the same FN bins except for the full auto lowers and fcg parts. They were bewildered when I asked saying seperate assembly lines for different FN guns wouldn’t make any FN sense.
Gives me the warm n fuzzies for my FN Tactical Carbine which has been 100 FN % ever since I bought it. :cool:
5.56 Bonded SP
04-01-18, 22:06
Several threads about this, I asked the same question here too.
FN can't use the tdp to produce civilian guns. Their military contract guns are built with better materials to higher standards.
This has been documented with things such as receiver extensions made out of lower grades of aluminum, no castle nut staking, and various other things.
After a LOT of research I learned the civilian variants are not even in the same league as the military counterparts.
After a lot of research I learned that the colt6920, scionics, danial defense, and many other companies products are built to a higher standard with better parts than the civilian FN guns... And for better prices.
I found it to be a bummer because I really like the FN rollmark, but in the end one is way better off buying a Colt.
So you’re saying FN can not use the TDP to produce civilian ar’s but Colt can? Why?
5.56 Bonded SP
04-02-18, 04:29
So you’re saying FN can not use the TDP to produce civilian ar’s but Colt can? Why?
Because Colt owns the TDP, and FN only got to use it for military contracts; or something along those lines. I believe the reason this thread has so few replies is because more seasoned guys are probably tired of constantly going over the same subject. I'm actually surprised this thread hasn't been locked.
The TDP isn't really the issue so much as FN making their FN15 a commercial rifle instead of a duty rifle. Just read other threads and you will find more articulate answers than I can provide. Basically, you are better of buying a BCM, Colt, DD, or something along those lines.
https://www.google.com/search?q=why+cant+fn+use+the+tdp+for+civilian+guns&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS779US779&oq=why+cant+fn+use+the+tdp+for+civilian+guns&aqs=chrome..69i57.9238j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-114951.html
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?148178-Comparing-FN15-to-LE6920
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?143446-Is-FN-preparing-to-release-their-own-AR/page11
Supposedly their basic FN-15 has been discontinued:
https://fnamerica.com/discontinued-products/
Supposedly their basic FN-15 has been discontinued:
https://fnamerica.com/discontinued-products/
Probably limited demand for a 20" barreled AR with FSP and rifle stock.
Probably limited demand for a 20" barreled AR with FSP and rifle stock.
Yet Colt cannot keep their A4 in stock. They sell out almost instantly anytime they become available. I actually love shooting 20” guns. I think they’re a lot more popular than people think.
Thanks....I own a Colt and. Knights...just wondering about the FN is all...appreciated the replies.
Because Colt owns the TDP, and FN only got to use it for military contracts; or something along those lines. I believe the reason this thread has so few replies is because more seasoned guys are probably tired of constantly going over the same subject. I'm actually surprised this thread hasn't been locked.
The TDP isn't really the issue so much as FN making their FN15 a commercial rifle instead of a duty rifle. Just read other threads and you will find more articulate answers than I can provide. Basically, you are better of buying a BCM, Colt, DD, or something along those lines.
https://www.google.com/search?q=why+cant+fn+use+the+tdp+for+civilian+guns&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS779US779&oq=why+cant+fn+use+the+tdp+for+civilian+guns&aqs=chrome..69i57.9238j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-114951.html
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?148178-Comparing-FN15-to-LE6920
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?143446-Is-FN-preparing-to-release-their-own-AR/page11
I have several FN guns including a Browning Hipower. FN doesnt make junk. I also have a Colt AR15.
Unless you get the FN at a substantial discount relative to the Colt there is no reason not to buy the Colt. Colt is the standard but that does not mean the FN is junk. Both work fine.
If given a choice between Colt and FN if the price is the same I would just pick Colt.
Because Colt owns the TDP, and FN only got to use it for military contracts; or something along those lines. I believe the reason this thread has so few replies is because more seasoned guys are probably tired of constantly going over the same subject. I'm actually surprised this thread hasn't been locked.
The TDP isn't really the issue so much as FN making their FN15 a commercial rifle instead of a duty rifle. Just read other threads and you will find more articulate answers than I can provide. Basically, you are better of buying a BCM, Colt, DD, or something along those lines.
https://www.google.com/search?q=why+cant+fn+use+the+tdp+for+civilian+guns&rlz=1C1SQJL_enUS779US779&oq=why+cant+fn+use+the+tdp+for+civilian+guns&aqs=chrome..69i57.9238j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-114951.html
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?148178-Comparing-FN15-to-LE6920
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?143446-Is-FN-preparing-to-release-their-own-AR/page11
I don't think this is entirely accurate. While Colt owns the TDP, the TDP can only be used for their military products. Commercial products are mil-spec, and not made to the exact TDP. I believe this is due to the nature of the military contract.
As an aside, I own a Tac II. FN guarantees 3 MOA out of the box. I consistently shot 2 MOA tactical zero with irons and IMI 5.56 55 grain. I have 62 grain and 75 grain ammo that I will feed it soon and see which one it likes the best. The biggest beef I have with the rifle is the 3 prong flash hider. While it works brilliantly as a flash hider, it is heavy and makes for repeated maneuvering more of a chore. A standard birdcage would have been better. The second issue I have is that it is expensive. Even if you got a deal on it, you probably won't find it for less than $1350-1400. The rifle is GTG, but for MSRP $1599 it better be. Oh, and despite what the reviews have said, I found the FN enhanced combat trigger to be better than anticipated. Is it as good as something like an Elf Match drop in? No, but for mil-spec, it's a solid piece. The Colt 6960 is comparable and represents a better value imho. If I had to do it over again, I would probably would have purchased HM Defense M5 for $1100, or gotten a 6920 and an AK for the same money as a Tac II. If you like nicer things, then spend a bit more for a Wilson Ranger, or a lot more for an HK 416.
One thing I’ve found about this forum from being a member and watching for 10 years. No one knows a damn thing about what’s “mil-spec” and what isn’t. A guy will ask a question about a quality and 50% will say they are mil-spec and the other half will say they aren’t. Just shoot your rifles and quit asking if the military has the same exact materials, specs, shininess.
robbins290
08-08-22, 14:57
Several threads about this, I asked the same question here too.
FN can't use the tdp to produce civilian guns. Their military contract guns are built with better materials to higher standards.
This has been documented with things such as receiver extensions made out of lower grades of aluminum, no castle nut staking, and various other things.
After a LOT of research I learned the civilian variants are not even in the same league as the military counterparts.
After a lot of research I learned that the colt6920, scionics, danial defense, and many other companies products are built to a higher standard with better parts than the civilian FN guns... And for better prices.
I found it to be a bummer because I really like the FN rollmark, but in the end one is way better off buying a Colt.
I have 2 FN 15's. One patrol carbine and one tact II something. Both been good s far, The castle nut is stacked on both.
Hammer_Man
08-08-22, 15:19
One thing I’ve found about this forum from being a member and watching for 10 years. No one knows a damn thing about what’s “mil-spec” and what isn’t. A guy will ask a question about a quality and 50% will say they are mil-spec and the other half will say they aren’t. Just shoot your rifles and quit asking if the military has the same exact materials, specs, shininess.
I have 2 FN 15's. One patrol carbine and one tact II something. Both been good s far, The castle nut is stacked on both.
If I were in the market for an off the shelf AR, I’d take a hard look at a new FN. Their quality these days seems top notch. Their M16A4 and M4A1 collector’s edition catches my eye every time I see one.
robbins290
08-08-22, 15:30
If I were in the market for an off the shelf AR, I’d take a hard look at a new FN. Their quality these days seems top notch. Their M16A4 and M4A1 collector’s edition catches my eye every time I see one.
Same. But with the m16 only. ****ers sexy!
The fact is nobody knows. It could be virtually identical to the rifles they're delivering to government buyers, it could be the rejects from those contracts, or it could just be a subbed out glorified PSA for double the price. Or it could be all of the above and everything in between, and change rifle to rifle. What's most likely is that they use whatever parts are most convenient at the time. If they have an overrun of full spec parts, they would use those. If they have a run of parts that wasn't quite up to spec for a contract, they would probably use them instead. If they didn't just happen to have extra in house parts they would likely go to someone like Microbest.
Here’s the thing, the commercial FN guns are not made to the TDP like the Colt 6920’s. They’re fine, but the quality is not the same. I also understand them to be batch MP/HP tested instead of individual. I have an FN-15 rifle & it has been a great gun. I did replace the BCG with a spare Colt because FN’s gas key staking was shit, but otherwise it’s been a fine gun. I would not buy one over a Colt or BCM though unless you’re getting a really good deal. I’ll add that I only bought my FN, because at the time, I add an itch for an A4 & the Colts were sold out.
That's really bad. For one thing, no staking is highly desirable over anything but 100% stellar, textbook staking. Staking is one of those things that doesn't help much, but can really screw things up bad if not executed perfectly.
And as visible as it is, and as much as people obsess over it, it's a REALLY REALLY bad sign that they apparently don't give a shit about it. If there's one thing that any manufacturer at any price point is going to try to at least make it look right, it's gas key staking. You could have the most top tier AR possible and get the staking wrong, and it's like taking a hundred dollar fillet and pouring best value steak sauce on it. Might as well just give it to the dog.
Their M16A4 and M4A1 collector’s edition catches my eye every time I see one.
They are cool looking. I keep wanting the M4a1 even though have have a few carbines that are pretty much there already.
Hammer_Man
08-08-22, 16:30
They are cool looking. I keep wanting the M4a1 even though have have a few carbines that are pretty much there already.
I’m in the same boat. I already have a basic M4 finished, and another one in the works. It would be nice to at least one factory gun though.
Same. But with the m16 only. ****ers sexy!
20” guns are just sexy period.
That's really bad. For one thing, no staking is highly desirable over anything but 100% stellar, textbook staking. Staking is one of those things that doesn't help much, but can really screw things up bad if not executed perfectly.
And as visible as it is, and as much as people obsess over it, it's a REALLY REALLY bad sign that they apparently don't give a shit about it. If there's one thing that any manufacturer at any price point is going to try to at least make it look right, it's gas key staking. You could have the most top tier AR possible and get the staking wrong, and it's like taking a hundred dollar fillet and pouring best value steak sauce on it. Might as well just give it to the dog.
I’ll caveat my original post by saying I have since picked up one of their M-16 clones and the staking on that gas key was perfect. No complaints and the rifle shoots as expected. The finish on newer FN rifles seems more robust & less glossy. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one, but I do believe there are better/equal choices for the money.
I’ll caveat my original post by saying I have since picked up one of their M-16 clones and the staking on that gas key was perfect. No complaints and the rifle shoots as expected. The finish on newer FN rifles seems more robust & less glossy. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one, but I do believe there are better/equal choices for the money.
That's pretty typical of commercial ARs. The quality of any given part is a lottery. It's like with the CR series, most are reporting a mixed bag of in house and subbed out parts, and rarely someone will get one that's all in house just like the good old days. Just pure luck of the draw.
The fact is nobody knows. It could be virtually identical to the rifles they're delivering to government buyers, it could be the rejects from those contracts, or it could just be a subbed out glorified PSA for double the price. Or it could be all of the above and everything in between, and change rifle to rifle. What's most likely is that they use whatever parts are most convenient at the time. If they have an overrun of full spec parts, they would use those. If they have a run of parts that wasn't quite up to spec for a contract, they would probably use them instead. If they didn't just happen to have extra in house parts they would likely go to someone like Microbest.
How many FN clone rifles have you bought and inspected to support your comments on them possibly throwing in gov reject or PSA parts?
That’s a lot of “probably” with no evidence given to back it up.
robbins290
08-09-22, 11:35
How many FN clone rifles have you bought and inspected to support your comments on them possibly throwing in gov reject or PSA parts?
That’s a lot of “probably” with no evidence given to back it up.
Exactly what I was thinking when I read that post, Same could be said about colt assembly's. I highly doubt all colts are build to the precious TDP. Both of my FN's seem pretty great, Staking was good and castle nut was staked. and they were cheaper then the colt CR series.
I would buy the military replica with knights rail in a heart beat. Had one at a LGS for around $1,300 and it took extreme will power to NOT buy it.
PB
Hammer_Man
08-09-22, 12:10
I would buy the military replica with knights rail in a heart beat. Had one at a LGS for around $1,300 and it took extreme will power to NOT buy it.
PB
Just imagine what one would look like sitting in your safe with an ACOG, or T2 mounted to it :smile:
Exactly what I was thinking when I read that post, Same could be said about colt assembly's. I highly doubt all colts are build to the precious TDP. Both of my FN's seem pretty great, Staking was good and castle nut was staked. and they were cheaper then the colt CR series.
If you had read my posts you would know I said exactly that.
How many FN clone rifles have you bought and inspected to support your comments on them possibly throwing in gov reject or PSA parts?
That’s a lot of “probably” with no evidence given to back it up.
If you had any idea how the industry actually works you would know how irrelevant that is. And as I said, nobody knows, and anyone who claims to know is either lying or relaying already outdated information. Subcontracts are always privileged information, and nobody is going to risk losing a contract or finding themselves in court just to satisfy some internet person's curiosity. In very rare instances, the manufacturer might disclose a subcontractor, but only in cases where the subcontractor has more street cred than the manufacturer (as in the case of PSA and Microbest). The vast majority of the time it's the other way around, where the manufacturer is using their roll mark to give street cred to undisclosed, cheaply made subcontracted parts. If they did use subcontracted parts, they're not going to tell you, and certainly not going to disclose who. Of that you can be sure.
Moreover, you can't tell anything simply by looking. Obviously there are poverty tier guns out there with nice fit and finish, and even the most astute person can't really tell without doing a lot of expensive batch testing. So again, the only claim I'm really making is that nobody has any clue, and that is an incontrovertible fact. What's also a fact, though, is that FN's commercial offerings can't be akin to their contract offerings in the same way that an LE6920 is a semi auto M4. They have to use the TDP for military contracts, and legally they cannot use the TDP for their commercial lines. So you're by definition either dealing with in house parts made to a different spec, or subcontracted parts, or a mixture of both. Or possibly also parts destined to be contract that didn't quite live up to TDP standards. But this whole "they're the same as the guns delivered to the military" line is complete and utter bullshit. They might be great quality based on FN's own internal QC standards, or they might be nothing but an overpriced roll mark, or (and this is the most likely probability) they vary drastically rifle to rifle. So get one, don't get one, I don't care, but people need to stop spreading bullshit claims that can't be backed up. They might be great, or they might be complete garbage. One thing that's probably for sure though is that they're drastically overpriced for what they are.
P.S. And I also never suggested they were using PSA parts. What I'm saying is nobody has any way of knowing what subcontractors, if any, they might be using at any given time, meaning you could very well be getting a glorified PSA with a fancy roll mark. That is, the parts could all hypothetically be the same grade from the same subcontractor. Hell, they could even be from the same runs. Like literally you could hypothetically take two ARs, one a PSA and one a fancy roll mark, and have the BCGs in both of them come from the same sub and the same run.
Johnny Appleseed
08-09-22, 17:45
I've had my FN Military Collector Carbine for a little over a month. I think it's a bit different than the commercial FN15.
Why else would it cost 500 or 600 more! Never a hiccup, very accurate handy firearm!
Very happy with it! I especially like the Knights Armament with vertical grip.
I've had my FN Military Collector Carbine for a little over a month. I think it's a bit different than the commercial FN15.
Why else would it cost 500 or 600 more! Never a hiccup, very accurate handy firearm!
Very happy with it! I especially like the Knights Armament with vertical grip.
I agree. I have the M-16A4 clone from them set up as one of my go to rifles with a Geissele SD-C trigger, USMC marked KAC rear sight and Comp M4S.
I would be higher on the military collector models if they used their chf b-11595e barrels, but no they’re using a button rifled 4140 barrel instead. Seems like a huge letdown especially for the price tag.
Hammer_Man
08-09-22, 19:46
I would be higher on the military collector models if they used their chf b-11595e barrels, but no they’re using a button rifled 4140 barrel instead. Seems like a huge letdown especially for the price tag.
I’m pretty sure they’re Mil-B-11595E 4150 chromoly steel, as all their button rifled commercial barrels are made from that material. Secondly, as this is a military tribute rifle, it only makes sense to use a button rifled barrel, as that is what Uncle Sam gets.
I’m pretty sure they’re Mil-B-11595E 4150 chromoly steel, as all their button rifled commercial barrels are made from that material. Secondly, as this is a military tribute rifle, it only makes sense to use a button rifled barrel, as that is what Uncle Sam gets.
I don’t see it listed anymore but on FN’s website they stated 4140 and it caused a commotion for a while. Maybe it’s now been changed?
Hammer_Man
08-12-22, 02:45
I don’t see it listed anymore but on FN’s website they stated 4140 and it caused a commotion for a while. Maybe it’s now been changed?
That’s interesting.. I can’t seem to find any information regarding that barrel to confirm or deny that claim. That certainly would be a bummer if it was in fact 4140 steel.
From FN’s site regarding their BB barrels…
“ FN AR*15 premium button rifled barrels are are manufactured using U.S. sourced Chrome Moly Venadium material per Mil-B-11595E. Each barrel is High Pressure Tested (HPT) and Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI) to ensure that it is free of micro*stresses or flaws, resulting in consistency and quality in every barrel shipped from the factory. The bore and chamber are chrome lined to help resist corrosion and provide resistance to heat erosion which greatly improves barrel life and reliable chambering / extraction. The M4 style feed ramps and barrel extension provide consistent feeding and the matte black Manganese Phosphate finish resists external corrosion and oxidation. Currently available in a chambering of 5.56 x 45mm in the following profiles and gas system lengths 10.5" Government Carbine, 14.7" Government Midlength, 14.7" M4 Carbine, 16" M4 Carbine, 16" Government Carbine, 16" Government Midlength, 18" Government Rifle, 20" Government Rifle.”
Hammer_Man
08-15-22, 19:40
From FN’s site regarding their BB barrels…
“ FN AR*15 premium button rifled barrels are are manufactured using U.S. sourced Chrome Moly Venadium material per Mil-B-11595E. Each barrel is High Pressure Tested (HPT) and Magnetic Particle Inspected (MPI) to ensure that it is free of micro*stresses or flaws, resulting in consistency and quality in every barrel shipped from the factory. The bore and chamber are chrome lined to help resist corrosion and provide resistance to heat erosion which greatly improves barrel life and reliable chambering / extraction. The M4 style feed ramps and barrel extension provide consistent feeding and the matte black Manganese Phosphate finish resists external corrosion and oxidation. Currently available in a chambering of 5.56 x 45mm in the following profiles and gas system lengths 10.5" Government Carbine, 14.7" Government Midlength, 14.7" M4 Carbine, 16" M4 Carbine, 16" Government Carbine, 16" Government Midlength, 18" Government Rifle, 20" Government Rifle.”
I sent FN USA an email asking about the barrel steel used in their collector’s edition M4, if they answer I’ll post that information here.
Roll marks matter not in function, reliability or accuracy.
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