Series of drills to compare your ability between various pistols? [Archive]

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Ron3

04-02-18, 14:13

I know a few drills (Bill drill and such) and have a shot timer.

I was thinking of putting together a few drills measuring time and accuracy with a few pistols to see what the differences really are.

Maybe about five drills, performed a couple to three times each, the exact same way but with two or three different pistols emphasizing self-defense-type skills. Time to first shot from the draw, speed and accuracy from 1-25 yds, and a couple drills with a mag change.

The idea is to put shooting/handling impressions and actual numbers together on one range visit to really see if a particular gun is faster or slower or more accurate from my hands. It's akin to taking two or three cars out on a road course on the same day.

Has anyone ever put a comparison-test like this together and care to share it?

Ron3

04-02-18, 14:24

Sam

04-02-18, 15:07

For me, if I'm comparing 2 or up to 3 guns, I usually keep the drill as simple and short as possible. Say a Bill drill, or the Vickers "Test" - 10 shots, 10 yards, 10 seconds into an 8" circle. Like the previous poster suggested, shoot each gun multiple times through each drill and record time. Example:

Gun A: Glock 19
Gun B: M&P Compact 2.0
Gun C: CZ P10C

Run the Bill drill with each gun 3 times, strive for all A hits or 0 pts. down. Record time for all and compare.

For a long term comparison, shoot a longer drill. If the tester is familiar with the El Prez. or the Bill Wilson 5x5, if you want to push it for a true long term test, shoot the IDPA 72 round full classifier.

I've shot an M&P and Glock 19 back to back using the original IDPA 90 round classifier, that's a long day at the range. Actually it only takes about an hour to shoot the course twice, including scoring, taping and setting up.

MegademiC

04-03-18, 06:46

Ive only done accuracy testing. I was going to go to drills, but one of the guns failed the accuracy so...

I have looked at FASTest times between the two(historical vs new).
I think thats a good test to determine how you interact with the pistol.

corey4

04-08-18, 06:43

what helped me settle on my choice was i took a glock 17, xdm, m&p, vp9, 320 and 226, and for carry guns i shot the xds, glock 42, 43, shield 9, sig 938. these were not all at the same time, some were rented at a local range to get a feel if i may want to purchase one to put a few hundred rounds thru it to see if i like it.

i drew 5 3.5" circle targets on a piece of paper. i take multiple copies and label each target with the gun. i take 2 target stands with me so i have a total of 10 targets.

i'll do these drills at 3,5, 10, and 15 yards.

i'll take one at each circle, reload, then take one shot at each circle. then do it again with some transitions from target stand to target stand. i try to mix it up as much as possible. if i don't have a holster for the gun i do gun on the table start, sometime loaded, sometimes unloaded. what i am looking for is getting a consistent grip on the gun. i'll do bullseye slow fire at the longer distances along with the drills i mentioned.

doing these drills allowed me to pic the glock 17 and shield 9. they work the best for me for getting a consistent grip from the draw, grip holding up during recoil, getting to the mag release easily.

these is another target i take that has a large rectangel, small circle, and small square. put 2 or 3 (or more or less depending on how froggy you feel) into each shape as fast as you can.

sorry for the short, no real clear post. im getting ready for work and wanted to at least get this out there so i can edit it later.

Warp

04-08-18, 21:24

Super Test. It's just three different distance and speed variations of The Test mentioned above, combined. All are from low ready (advanced version from concealment or retention), all are 10 rounds, shots over par are 0. Target is NRA B8 scored by the rings
15 yards, 15 seconds
10 yards, 10 seconds
5 yards, 5 seconds

270 of 300 possible is minimum passing score

Or you could pick only the 10 yard (The Test) or 5 yard (Half Test) and run that particular one 3 times straight with a particular gun for the same ammo count as one Super Test. For a private citizen type self defense carry gun I figure the farther past 5 yards or so you get, the less relevant it is likely to be...but you never know and 15 yards isn't really that far. But anyway, a fairly simple way would be to pick The Test or the Half Test and run a few with gun A, a few with gun B, and a few with gun C. You could do all that (3 with each of 3 guns), with about 3 rounds of 'warm up' for each gun as you start with it just to re-familiarize a bit, with only 100 rounds of ammo

These can be done at any range that does not prohibit "rapid fire" since there is no movement, only one target, and no requirement to draw from a holster. There are no reloads, but then as a private citizen carrier type deal, reloads are pretty unlikely...though you can always split the mags into two of 5 each and add a reload. If you're fast/good you can still shoot a good score under par with a reload.

The FAST test as mentioned would be good, it hits a lot of skills without needing much time or ammo per run.

Might want to do something that uses one handed, strong hand only, too.

MegademiC

04-09-18, 08:54

Dot torture would definately hit all that ^(last line of above post)

msiley

04-09-18, 14:36

I test my guns in competitions after some practice with them. This has proven invaluable. How the gun runs under pressure at speed can be different than while not. This mainly isn't how reliable the gun runs but how it interfaces with the software (me.) I also test new sights this way. Example: I found Trijicon HDs harder to use than Ameriglo I-dots. Also from this testing I have concluded I really like Glocks.

YVK

04-09-18, 19:03

How should guns be run?

Perhaps:

Drill 1. Gun A (Record time, hits)
Drill 1. Gun B (Record time, hits)
Drill 1. Gun C (Record time, hits)
Drill 1. Gun A (Record time, hits)
Drill 1. Gun B (Record time, hits)
Drill 1. Gun C (Record time, hits)

Record shooting/handling impressions/issues

Drill 2. Gun A (Record time, hits)
Drill 2. Gun B (Record time, hits)
Drill 2. Gun C (Record time, hits)
Drill 2. Gun A (Record time, hits)
Drill 2. Gun B (Record time, hits)
Drill 2. Gun C (Record time, hits)

Record shooting/handling impressions/issues

Drill 3. Gun A (Record time, hits)
ETC..

Other idea's?

What drills you want to run to compare your guns I'll leave up to you. I'd only mention that it helps to learn what skills are measured by a particular drill or test, so you can have a well rounded process. I have my own compilation and it changes; you should have yours, whatever is relevant to you.

However, having made that mistake before, don't ever test different guns at the same time, unless they have a near identical properties. For example, stock G19 vs G17 (same everything other than the size), a G17 with stock trigger vs G17 with aftermarket triggerm etc is OK. Even then I don't really like that as much. Testing two different gun designs at the same time is a recipe to a bunch of wrong conclusions.

Warp

04-11-18, 10:51

Dot torture would definately hit all that ^(last line of above post)

That is true, but it's all slow fire so there's no recoil management/running at speed, and the full dot torture is 50 rounds. A Super Test + 5 yard roundup would test accuracy at speed at 5-10-15 yards plus strong hand only and weak hand only and a draw (as part of the roundup), for 40 total rounds. Room to add a FAST test to that for the draw (or do advanced super test with draw...) and mag change and still require less ammo than a single dot torture.

So a big factor here is how much time and ammo you can use before you run out of time or fatigue becomes a deciding factor

1168

06-06-18, 13:20

A little late, but the IDPA 5x5 qualifier could be a good drill to compare skill with different guns.

ramairthree

06-06-18, 18:43

ramairthree

06-07-18, 11:39

Forgot to add-
I use a similar if not same model holster for comparisons.

In general,
A heavier, bigger longer sight radius gun gives me more speed and accuracy.

Sights and ergonomics can play in, with great sights being a huge factor.

Some guns I like enough to add some mags changes and compare times between those.

Ron3

06-07-18, 14:43

I have a fairly loose regimen.

Draw and fire dive rounds 7 yards.
Draw and fire five rounds ten yards.
Draw and fire five rounds 15 yards.

I compare time, basic group, POA to POI.

I will also slow fire ten rounds at 15, ten rounds at 25,
And clear a rack of plates at ten yards.

I use paper plates with a black one inch plaster square stuck in the middle.

Not all that scientific.

I forgot this thread.

Yep! That's almost exactly what I did. Brought out the guns and holsters and a timer.

I learned the full size Px4 was more precise than the Glock's I have far, far more rounds through. I already knew it felt very good in hand and I like the trigger. I had already tried carrying it for a month or so. Too bulky, heavier than I cared for.

The big downside? It was no faster to get the same hits than a 9mm Glock. Worse was from low ready or a draw it was about .25 s slower than a Glock.

So, good gun, accurate, reliable. Sold it to a friend.

The other two guns I had that day were a G19 and G27. The G27 was slower to get hits with but just barely up close. As the distance increased the the 9mm was faster for same quality hits. Time to first shot low ready and draw was the same.

Reloads were fastest with the Px4 but about the same between the Glocks.

Put a .357 4 inch barrel in the G27 based on previous experience with a G32. I enjoy firing .357 auto over the .40 in a Glock. Noticeably less recoil with the lighter 125 gr bullets. With Lehigh 90 gr bullets it's more like shooting a 9mm +p.

I've also found that a heavier gun noticeably slows the draw/time to first shot. 37 oz vs 27 oz vs 10 oz there is quite a difference between them.

The next comparo I'd like to do, which I've done before but didn't have a timer, is the G19 vs Beretta Cheetah.