Rear BUIS - Troy or MI [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

royta

10-20-08, 20:29

Robb Jensen

10-20-08, 21:27

I own both, yes the Troy is also same-plane. Both are VERY well made sights.

cathellsk

10-20-08, 22:39

...., yes the Troy is also same-plane.

I do not remember seeing that before. Thank you, learn something new everyday.

Btw...I'd go Troy, have one, love it.

SMGLee

10-21-08, 12:09

MI also has a same plane BUIS, the SPLP(Same Plane Low profile) is a good sight that i have been running on my PWS piston upper. it is on par with my Troy sight and the cost is a bit less. both lock in position when deployed and both are low profile enough to fit under any scope or NVD.

It is really up to you as far as which you like the best since the performance are pretty much equal.

VooDoo6Actual

10-21-08, 12:28

Troy IMO.

Cold Zero

10-21-08, 13:44

Can't go wrong with the Troy. No complaints here.

Shihan

10-21-08, 18:15

I use and sell both the Troy and MI sights and since MI came out with the SPLP that is what I use as I consider both equal and the MI is quite abit less $$.

rockm4

10-21-08, 18:58

Midwest Industries SPLP & Troy Folding Battle Sight

I've read that both are very well made sights. I thought I read that the MI had aperture diameters that were identical to the A2 sight, and are obviously on the same plane. Is the Troy on the same plane? I've also read the MI is a little easier to flip up or down, due to pushing in a pin that is seperate from the pin the sight rotates up and down on.

It seems the Troy is more popular. Has it just been around longer, therefore more folks have had experience with it?

Thoughts from users of both?

It's all a matter of preference, In the beginning Samson made the Troy products. I know that they made the fore end rails and there was a patent law suit dispute. Troy won and now make their own. But you can't go wrong with ether one. IMO the non-spring flip up sights are less likely to failure than the spring models. They aren't instant,But less parts to fail or break. :D

royta

10-22-08, 07:00

IMO the non-spring flip up sights are less likely to failure than the spring models. They aren't instant,But less parts to fail or break. :D

Which is exactly why I'm inquiring about the Troy or the MI.

OK, having never handled either of them (a couple of the local shops only have the GG&G or Leapers), I don't really know what my "preference" is just yet. No offense, but answers similar to "Troy's are better IMO" don't really help. C'mon, you know who you are. ;) I once read this handy little thread. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19280 Anyway, I'm hoping somebody might list the pros & cons of each. They might be identical in quality, but they aren't identical in design. Why did you go with one over the other? Was it because one was available and the other wasn't? Was it because everybody else had one too? I know, I know, you're saying "It's just a BUIS, pick one already!" Sorry, but when you're shelling out more $$ on a BUIS than an entire carry handle, I don't want to choose one over the other because somebody said it was "good to go" when that person may not have even used the other.

zippygaloo - I would prefer same plane apertures, so that my point of aim / point of impact does not change regardless of which aperture I am using.

gotm4 - I wasn't aware of that. After reading your reply, I was on BCM's (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Troy-Folding-Battle-Sight-REAR-p/troy%20rear%20sight%20-%20rear.htm) site and saw Troy makes an offset plane as well. I thought Troy only had offset plane. Thanks for the info.

wahoo95

10-22-08, 08:24

Get which ever one you want OR just flip a coin if you can't decide :)

Having both I would would rate them equal in build, design & performance. You will probably hear more people speak out about the Troy.........more people have them because others have them. It's a great design and plenty rugged as well. The MI SPLP is just as rugged but not as well known so you don't see it as much.

Damascus

10-22-08, 13:05

Shihan

10-22-08, 19:35

It's all a matter of preference, at first MI made the Troy products. I know that they made the fore end rails and there was a patent law suit dispute. Troy won and now make their own. But you can't go wrong with ether one. IMO the non-spring flip up sights are less likely to failure than the spring models. They aren't instant,But less parts to fail or break. :D

The rail lawsuit was with SAMSON.

Shihan

10-22-08, 19:38

IMHO, both sets will perform great, although I do believe that the Troy's are more "bomb-proof", or just tougher overall. If I were to accidently drop my rifle down a flight of stairs, I'd rather have the Troys on there. Just my 2 cents, good luck!

Please explain what makes the Troy more "bombproof" than the MI's?

USMGoldenEagle

10-22-08, 20:15

I too am trying to decide which iron sights to purchase. I have been researching which to get and have been leaning towards the MI brand.

This is a great thread with some great reviews and comparisons. Keep them coming!

Damascus

10-22-08, 20:28

Please explain what makes the Troy more "bombproof" than the MI's?

I said "IMHO".. The Troy's just feel "stiffer" to me... I don't know the tensile strength of the MI's crosspin, but it just doesn't "feel" as strong as the Troy, to me anyways. I am not dogging the MI - I stated that both are GREAT choices, I just think the Troy setup is a tad tougher. Just my opinion - take it or leave it.

A_shizzle

10-22-08, 21:28

Cant comment on MI but i got the Troy and its rock solid. You would not regret purchasing a Troy IMHO

rockm4

10-22-08, 22:09

The rail lawsuit was with SAMSON.

Thank you, Shihan. I Had my company's mixed up I owe MI an apogee. And you thanks for setting me straight. Next time i will do my homework before shooting down the wrong company. I looked it up and the suit was over trade secret infringements.

Thanks Patriot.:o

LettersFromEarth

10-22-08, 22:25

I agree with everyone else. I just sold my set of Troy's, but have also handled and shot with the MI's.
IMHO, both sets will perform great, although I do believe that the Troy's are more "bomb-proof", or just tougher overall. If I were to accidently drop my rifle down a flight of stairs, I'd rather have the Troys on there. Just my 2 cents, good luck!

Yes, you did...thank you. LOL The Troy sights are well made for sure. One thing I noticed though was that the small aperture is "backwards" compared to other BUIS or A2 type Irons. Im quessing this is do to the large aperture being the default when its first deployed. I would think that if you were to reverse it and make the small aperture the default it would fix this "problem".

Medicine Calf

10-23-08, 09:33

Yes, you did...thank you. LOL The Troy sights are well made for sure. One thing I noticed though was that the small aperture is "backwards" compared to other BUIS or A2 type Irons. Im quessing this is do to the large aperture being the default when its first deployed. I would think that if you were to reverse it and make the small aperture the default it would fix this "problem".

Which BUIS default to the small ap? I know the YHM does, and from looking at pics, may be the ARMS 40S? Although I have a Troy, my go to BUIS at this point is the KAC 600m or Matech.

LettersFromEarth

10-23-08, 11:36

Which BUIS default to the small ap? I know the YHM does, and from looking at pics, may be the ARMS 40S? Although I have a Troy, my go to BUIS at this point is the KAC 600m or Matech.

Let me explain this a little better...hopefully: The Troy is a well made sight but on the few examples that I have seen/used the "dished out" side of the ap did not face the shooters eye but was turned around to the other side and the flat side of the ap is what faced the shooter. This could cause some problems, namely in a bright and sunny enviorment, such as light reflecting off the ap and mucking with your sight picture. The dish out also has the benifit of drawing in your eye and making it easier to focus on the front sight.

Now, after looking agian at my Troy, its fix wouldnt envolve flipping it over and making the small ap the default but just spinning the "L" around and re-installing it and thus keeping the big ap as the default.

As far as other BUISs' having the large ap as a default; ARMS 40 and 40S come to mind as does the MI's SPLP and GG&Gs A2 BUIS but there might be more . Cheers.

royta

10-23-08, 18:12

Let me explain this a little better...hopefully: The Troy is a well made sight but on the few examples that I have seen/used the "dished out" side of the ap did not face the shooters eye but was turned around to the other side and the flat side of the ap is what faced the shooter. This could cause some problems, namely in a bright and sunny enviorment, such as light reflecting off the ap and mucking with your sight picture. The dish out also has the benifit of drawing in your eye and making it easier to focus on the front sight.

Now, after looking agian at my Troy, its fix wouldnt envolve flipping it over and making the small ap the default but just spinning the "L" around and re-installing it and thus keeping the big ap as the default.

As far as other BUISs' having the large ap as a default; ARMS 40 and 40S come to mind as does the MI's SPLP and GG&Gs A2 BUIS but there might be more . Cheers.

I thought both sights were identical in that respect. The concave part faces away from the shooter on the large aperture, and the concave part faces the shooter on the small aperture.

Pics of the MI to illustrate. http://coloradoshooting.org/v-web/gallery/album12

USMGoldenEagle

10-23-08, 20:23

I just ordered the MI brand. I really appreciate all the info from everyone. I feel like I made a good purchase.

LettersFromEarth

10-23-08, 23:24

On the large aperture its not a a problem for me at least. However, the small aperture on the Troy the concave faces away.
Is this a problem? For some it is. For some it isnt. I havent heard or read about anyone carping on it so... A BUIS is not a match sight. I like the large aperture being the default and I can work with it as is. But they are up there in price and its a bit odd paying top $$$ for gear for someone to have to "work with it".

I thought both sights were identical in that respect. The concave part faces away from the shooter on the large aperture, and the concave part faces the shooter on the small aperture.

Pics of the MI to illustrate. http://coloradoshooting.org/v-web/gallery/album12

LettersFromEarth

10-23-08, 23:26

Nice. What MI did you go with?

I just ordered the MI brand. I really appreciate all the info from everyone. I feel like I made a good purchase.

royta

10-24-08, 07:23

Now, after looking agian at my Troy, its fix wouldnt envolve flipping it over and making the small ap the default but just spinning the "L" around and re-installing it and thus keeping the big ap as the default.

I'm not sure this would work. This would put the inside of the "L" facing you, instead of facing away from you.

It's too bad these sight manufacturer's don't put the concave part of all the apertures facing the shooter. If you look at Troy's pictures, both apertures have the concave part facing away. The remedy is to go with the small ap as default.

I wish MI's sight had a smaller windage wheel. I don't see the need to have such a large windage adjustment dial. How often is one making windage adjustments? This isn't BenchRest shooting.

I like PRI's dial, but I don't like how the detent ball will leave a mark when rotating between the small and large aps.
http://www.pri-mounts.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/rear_sight.jpg

LettersFromEarth

10-24-08, 10:43

I'm not sure this would work. This would put the inside of the "L" facing you, instead of facing away from you.

It's too bad these sight manufacturer's don't put the concave part of all the apertures facing the shooter. If you look at Troy's pictures, both apertures have the concave part facing away. The remedy is to go with the small ap as default.

I wish MI's sight had a smaller windage wheel. I don't see the need to have such a large windage adjustment dial. How often is one making windage adjustments? This isn't BenchRest shooting.

I like PRI's dial, but I don't like how the detent ball will leave a mark when rotating between the small and large aps.
http://www.pri-mounts.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/rear_sight.jpg

The more I consider it the more I would like the aps to be as I desribed; concave facing the shooter. I will call Troy in a few and find out the deal with the aps. Maybe they know a thing or ten regarding their product that Ive yet to consider?:)

royta

10-24-08, 19:11

The more I consider it the more I would like the aps to be as I desribed; concave facing the shooter. I will call Troy in a few and find out the deal with the aps. Maybe they know a thing or ten regarding their product that Ive yet to consider?:)

The concave part would face the shooter if you wanted the small aperture to be default. Perhaps they could machine both sides of the apertures to be concave. Would the material be too thin at the outside of the aperture?

LettersFromEarth

10-25-08, 00:15

The concave part would face the shooter if you wanted the small aperture to be default. Perhaps they could machine both sides of the apertures to be concave. Would the material be too thin at the outside of the aperture?

Im thinking it would be (too thin). Or, here's one possible solution: Make it "right" the first time? ;)

I did not get a chance to contact Troy Industries as I said I would. I got called in for some pre-deployment "whatever's" earlier today and it slipped my mind to be honest. Monday should be good, though. Not that Im expecting them to bend over backwards for me and why should they? If you think about it thats how the sight was made and thats how they have been selling 'em for years with out much complaining. Dont like it dont use it. Tough little hunk of steel, though.

SMGLee

10-26-08, 02:28

Some pictures of teh MI vs. Troy...

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1177.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1174.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/clt2/huge/DSCN1183.jpg

LettersFromEarth

10-26-08, 11:22

SMGLee,

Great pics and thanks for responding. I wonder why Troy would make it "backwards" at least compared to most other sights?

Battl3fr0nt

10-27-08, 06:54

MI SPLP.. or you can just go with the ERS if you dont need it to be low profile.. But yeah the reson I say MI SPLP, is its a very good BUIS and they are battle tested..

Shihan

10-27-08, 18:33

I said "IMHO".. The Troy's just feel "stiffer" to me... I don't know the tensile strength of the MI's crosspin, but it just doesn't "feel" as strong as the Troy, to me anyways. I am not dogging the MI - I stated that both are GREAT choices, I just think the Troy setup is a tad tougher. Just my opinion - take it or leave it.

No problem, my reason for asking is maybe you knew something I didnt which is why we do this stuff.

royta

11-16-08, 21:32

I have a question about the Troy sight. See where the red is on the picture? Does this area wear out with repeated foldings of the sight? Does the material get worn and not lock as tightly due to material becoming displaced from the pins constantly wearing against it when folding and unfolding?

http://www.mynetimages.com/444c77ba.jpg

Thanks.