View Full Version : Buying a KAC Rifle... Would love feedback and thoughts!
cundiff5535
04-09-18, 19:01
M4 peeps, I have decided to start looking into KAC rifles. I have several AR's but have not yet added a Knights.
I am looking for feedback and/or guidance on what rifle is ideal for me. I am looking for an all around rifle to run through training classes. I see the Mod2 is what is on the website, but have also seen Mod1's in used forums etc...
Can anyone school a KAC newbie on what makes one model superior to the other, and what your own personal thoughts are on what to buy.
Pretty vague but do enjoy reading and learning about this kind of stuff!
I know the knight "fan boys" really have a thing for the old school stuff. It's like some obsession with stuff they no longer produce. The mod 2 has some really cool features that pertain to the gas system. The thing that makes an sr15 so good is the E2 bolt and the mod 2 gas system. The way the gas block is held on along with the way the gas tube is secured is so unique, there is nothing else like it.
Razorblade
04-10-18, 14:32
For an all around I would just go with either a 16" or 14.5" SR15 E3 Mod2 (youll probably want M-Lok I take it) As stated above, they feature a lot of uniqueness that separate them from being "just another AR"...especially with the bolt, etc. If you want the most up to date, best version - obviously go with the newest model. Guys only buy the older shit to collect.
Once you get it, you'll probably get hooked and buy another one down the kine anyway lol...then soon it'll develop into an obsession in which case you start hunting down classic and rare Kac parts and whatnot. My first kac was a Mod 2...then I got an SBR mod 2, then I got a mod 1 Sr15 14.5", and also a mod 1 Sr16 cqb upper..I recently stepped up and got my first SR25 not long ago. Add to the fact that I have a mountain of kac accessories on top of it all.
I guess my point is, whichever one you DONT get, dont worry - you'll eventually get it not far sown the road.
Imo both mod 1 and mod 2 look badass and you cant go wrong with either:
http://i64.tinypic.com/29cq3a9.jpg
http://i67.tinypic.com/8wjyx1.jpg
Boba Fett v2
04-10-18, 22:00
M4 peeps, I have decided to start looking into KAC rifles. I have several AR's but have not yet added a Knights.
I am looking for feedback and/or guidance on what rifle is ideal for me. I am looking for an all around rifle to run through training classes. I see the Mod2 is what is on the website, but have also seen Mod1's in used forums etc...
Can anyone school a KAC newbie on what makes one model superior to the other, and what your own personal thoughts are on what to buy.
Pretty vague but do enjoy reading and learning about this kind of stuff!
With each evolution of the SR15 KAC made incremental improvements over the previous model. The most noticeable feature are the types of rails used in each stage of its evolution. Early Block I and II saw the use of a variety of quad rails, some with integrated front sights or front sight gas blocks.
The Mod 1 is arguably the most significant "evolutionary leap" for KAC carbines and rifles. The Mod 1 introduced the full ambidextrous lower receiver as well as integrated QD sockets (now discontinued), as well as the superior E3 bolt design, and the URX 3 and 3.1 lightened quad rails, which basically eliminated excess weight and unnecessary rail real estate. The Mod 1 also saw the introduction of the KAC recoil reduction system, incorporating a proprietary "intermediate-length" gas system that is unique to 14.5" and 16" KAC carbines. The Mod 1 line up also introduced the SR30 series rifles/carbines, and ball milled barrels were featured in select models for both the SR15 and SR25 line for further weight reduction.
The Mod 2 introduced an innovative "leak proof (https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/Mod2-Gas-System/381-248067/)" gas system by using an unconventional method of securing the gas tube to the gas block. The Mod 2 also ushered in a new era of lightweight rails, the URX4, in both Keymod and MLOK configurations.
At least that's how I remember it. I'm sure a KAC rep will step in sooner or later and present all the real facts. The bottom line is, if you're not into cloning or collecting, it's really not worth paying premium for discontinued KAC parts or complete guns. Although KAC does intend to do limited run "Vault" releases annually for the die hard collectors and fans. If your intent is to train and shoot the piss out of it, go with the latest and greatest (Mod 2) that's readily available, and don't look back.
cundiff5535
04-10-18, 22:09
With each evolution of the SR15 KAC made incremental improvements over the previous model. The most noticeable feature are the types of rails used in each stage of its evolution. Early Block I and II saw the use of a variety of quad rails, some with integrated front sights or front sight gas blocks.
The Mod 1 is arguably the most significant "evolutionary leap" for KAC carbines and rifles. The Mod 1 introduced the full ambidextrous lower receiver as well as integrated QD sockets (now discontinued), as well as the superior E3 bolt design, and the URX 3 and 3.1 lightened quad rails, which basically eliminated excess weight and unnecessary rail real estate. The Mod 1 also saw the introduction of the KAC recoil reduction system, incorporating a proprietary "intermediate-length" gas system that is unique to 14.5" and 16" KAC carbines. The Mod 1 line up also introduced the SR30 series rifles/carbines, and ball milled barrels were featured in select models for both the SR15 and SR25 line for further weight reduction.
The Mod 2 introduced an innovative "leak proof (https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/Mod2-Gas-System/381-248067/)" gas system by using an unconventional method of securing the gas tube to the gas block. The Mod 2 also ushered in a new era of lightweight rails, the URX4, in both Keymod and MLOK configurations.
At least that's how I remember it. I'm sure a KAC rep will step in sooner or later and present all the real facts. The bottom line is, if you're not into cloning or collecting, it's really not worth paying premium for discontinued KAC parts or complete guns. Although KAC does intend to do limited run "Vault" releases annually for the die hard collectors and fans. If your intent is to train and shoot the piss out of it, go with the latest and greatest that's readily available.
Fantastic info! Thank you sir!
I know I am opening up a huge can of worms here... I recently picked up a BCM Jack (got it priced right). Love that thing... Honestly, would the Mod 2 be a huge step up from that rife? <-- I know this is a totally subjective question, am curious to hear some opinions though!
To the OP, if you are seriously thinking about it, rest assured an SR-15 is always a good purchase. You won't be sorry. I'd go with Mod 2. KAC is not a stagnant company, they are always improving, testing, ect, so their latest model is what I'd be looking for.
Early Block I and II saw the use of a variety of quad rails, some with integrated front sights or front sight gas blocks.
I'm still shooting this "early" aka "legacy" every now and then. It has never malfunctioned (in any way shape or form) despite thousands of dollars of ammo through the pipe. Smooth, reliable, and accurate.
https://i.imgur.com/7HwJPx1.jpg
Get yourself a Mod 2 & drive on. Probably the best AR you can get. They are well worth the $$$ & hold their value. I picked up a Bronze Mod 2 in Key Mod last year & I absolutely love it. Ignore all the “proprietary” bullshit, because that’s all it is. KAC makes the best gun out there.
Op. 100% get a 16” mod 2 in mlok. Add preferred LPVO or red dot of choice.
I’ll concede I’m a completely unabashed KAC fan boy. We run CQB mod 1s at work and I adore them.
But
The level of refinement and intrinsic attributes find in these rifles is worth the price tag.
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Op. 100% get a 16” mod 2 in mlok. Add preferred LPVO or red dot of choice.
I’ll concede I’m a completely unabashed KAC fan boy. We run CQB mod 1s at work and I adore them.
But
The level of refinement and intrinsic attributes find in these rifles is worth the price tag. Over the years of divested myself of everything except Glock pistols, Colt /HK /KAC rifles. And the only HK I wanted was my 416 so, yea.
KACmasterrace
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cundiff5535
04-12-18, 22:20
Looks like the 16" Mod 2 is what everyone here says to get:) Time to hunt one down at a reasonable price.
Thanks guys!
Side note: Can you guys give me a serious thought on how a Mod2 would stack up to a BCM Jack?
Looks like the 16" Mod 2 is what everyone here says to get:) Time to hunt one down at a reasonable price.
Thanks guys!
Side note: Can you guys give me a serious thought on how a Mod2 would stack up to a BCM Jack?
bcm jack is just a bcm with slightly upgraded trigger and badass geiselle mk1 rail
no upgraded bolt, intermediate gas, ambi lower, two stage trigger if I recall
to make a super jack you would want an lmt enhanced bcg, A5 buffer, and G trigger
I purchased my first KAC this year after saving for a while to get it. It is a very well engineered machine, and is an absolutely amazing rifle to shoot. There is not a better AR style rifle out there today, and you will not be disappointed.
Side note: Can you guys give me a serious thought on how a Mod2 would stack up to a BCM Jack?
I have a Jack and I have rifles that when you look at the components are basically Jack carbines.
That's the key difference; you can make a Jack yourself. You can't make a KAC Mod2 yourself.
Boba Fett v2
04-13-18, 11:05
I have a Jack and I have rifles that when you look at the components are basically Jack carbines.
That's the key difference; you can make a Jack yourself. You can't make a KAC Mod2 yourself.Technically you could assemble your own SR15, sourcing all the correct individual parts needed to do it correctly is the challenge. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180413/ce226f787e105c7b03abf501f60064da.jpg
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contax_shooter
04-13-18, 20:34
You'll get more likes if you #hashtag KAC SR15.
It's a proven fact.
Along these lines, I have a KAC stripped lower and have been planning to build it with the A5, SSA, Sionics LPK. Would you guys recommend building the lower as planned and picking up a 16" Mod 2 upper or buying a complete rifle? Thanks
Looks like the 16" Mod 2 is what everyone here says to get:) Time to hunt one down at a reasonable price.
Thanks guys!
Side note: Can you guys give me a serious thought on how a Mod2 would stack up to a BCM Jack?
BCM makes a high quality gun. It will run more ammo than you can afford. The KAC has a longer gas Sytem, smoother impulse. It has a great trigger, full ambi....the KAC has many features the Jack does not. Doesn't make the Jack bad, but for what you get the KAC is very fairly priced IMHO.
PB
I have a Mod2 on order. The more I think about it the less I like the gas system. My unfounded concerns are that the hex nut holding the gas tube in can work loose and i can't remove the rail myself to service it. Well I could with the addition of a bunch of proprietary tools.
The feeling of not being able to wrench my own stuff annoys me a bit.
Boba Fett v2
04-14-18, 11:30
I have a Mod2 on order. The more I think about it the less I like the gas system. My unfounded concerns are that the hex nut holding the gas tube in can work loose and i can't remove the rail myself to service it. Well I could with the addition of a bunch of proprietary tools.
The feeling of not being able to wrench my own stuff annoys me a bit.
Was this not a concern when you ordered it? If you haven't been invoiced I'd just cancel.
Call Knights up and ask how many gas tube screws have come loose. If it has happened, I bet they've heard about it. If it had happened, it'd most likely be known by at least one of the guys posting in this, or other KAC-related threads, but call them anyway.
I hadent really thought about it before putting in the order. I don't think I'm going to cancel as I feel the positives of they system outweigh the negatives as I see it.
As far as them coming loose I haven't heard of one coming off and according to KAC they are tourqed at 50 pounds and they add a bit of rockset so I'd think it's on as good as a BCM gas block with set screws would be.
Boba Fett v2
04-14-18, 13:50
I hadent really thought about it before putting in the order. I don't think I'm going to cancel as I feel the positives of they system outweigh the negatives as I see it.
As far as them coming loose I haven't heard of one coming off and according to KAC they are tourqed at 50 pounds and they add a bit of rockset so I'd think it's on as good as a BCM gas block with set screws would be.
Honestly, I think you'll be pleased. And if you ever experience a problem, rest assured KAC customer service will take care of you.
Honestly, I think you'll be pleased. And if you ever experience a problem, rest assured KAC customer service will take care of you.
True. KAC CS is great.
OP, you will be very pleased with your mod2. It really is an excellent rifle and is quite reasonably priced when you factor in all the components it has as standard.
cundiff5535
04-14-18, 21:46
Great info all the way through! Thanks guys.
Failure2Stop
04-16-18, 08:50
Call Knights up and ask how many gas tube screws have come loose. If it has happened, I bet they've heard about it. If it had happened, it'd most likely be known by at least one of the guys posting in this, or other KAC-related threads, but call them anyway.
We have had zero issue with gas tubes loosening that were torqued to spec (50 in/lbs) and/or Rocksetted. We settled on 50 with Rockset to make absolutely sure that they would not come loose over a 20k firing schedule while still being armorer serviceable.
Should there be any issue that requires a gas tube replacement, the handguard does not need to be removed, just pull the muzzle device and gas block retainer nut and the gas block can then be pulled complete. The tube is easily pulled and replaced. As there are no taper pins or set screws, the gas block can be swapped for a replacement very easily as well.
Will the tool to remove the gas block retainer nut be available?
Failure2Stop
04-16-18, 14:13
Will the tool to remove the gas block retainer nut be available?
It is currently available to KAC certified armorer dealers, and we are working to increase the number of Mod 2 certified armorers.
It is currently available to KAC certified armorer dealers, and we are working to increase the number of Mod 2 certified armorers.
Jack, what’s the difference between this tool the the legacy URX wrench for example? I understand this one is mod 2 specific but why all the fuss? Folks obviously still tinker with the legacy stuff and I think there is a lot less to screw up on a mod 2 negating concerns over potential damage to the brand as you’ve articulated before.
Idk, a random musing I guess. I had a wrench made but buying one would be easier.
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Coal Dragger
04-16-18, 18:12
I think the tool in question is for the nut that retains the gas manifold on the barrel, not the wrench for the hand guard.
I think KAC rifles for the money are probably at the top of the heap. They have more pro's with only a few con's to most people. They shoot a little softer than most because of their gas system, and their bolts will last longer than most other brands. With Geissele coming out with their uber bolt carrier group later this year and Surefire coming out with their Stoner designed OBC group in the near future, their bolt life should be equal with KAC's. In the end one brand will not kill someone any more dead than the next one, but you will probably have to replace your bolt twice compared to once for the KAC before you might have to replace your barrel.
I think the tool in question is for the nut that retains the gas manifold on the barrel, not the wrench for the hand guard.
No I know that. That wasn’t the point I was trying to make.
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LookAtYourself
04-17-18, 04:35
it's intriguing to me how the "what if" scenarios are just totally blown out of proportion in the firearms industry. AR15's have so many screws or pins in them that "could" come loose, why be concerned over the fact that a very reputable manufacturer decided to use a nut to secure the gas block on rather than the tradition set screw or taper pins. KAC isn't the only ones doing this either. PWS on their mk1 mod 2 carbines as well as Barrett REC 7's also use a nut to secure the gas block to the barrel. KAC isn't the only ones doing it and it's not new to the market.
Jack, what’s the difference between this tool the the legacy URX wrench for example? I understand this one is mod 2 specific but why all the fuss? Folks obviously still tinker with the legacy stuff and I think there is a lot less to screw up on a mod 2 negating concerns over potential damage to the brand as you’ve articulated before.
Idk, a random musing I guess. I had a wrench made but buying one would be easier.
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The legacy wrench is for the urx 2/3/3.1 barrel nut. Jack is talking about the tool necessary to remove the gas block nut on their mod 2's.
Again that’s not what I said. KAC won’t sell mod 2 gas block nut wrenches bc they (KAC) don’t want people dicking things up, which I get. But, I’d like to think such concerns are overblown and making wrenches available would be a net positive.
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Failure2Stop
04-17-18, 07:18
Again that’s not what I said. KAC won’t sell mod 2 gas block nut wrenches bc they (KAC) don’t want people dicking things up, which I get. But, I’d like to think such concerns are overblown and making wrenches available would be a net positive.
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We're just limited on availability, so the first production releases were allocated to dealers, armorers, and government.
There is no real intention to withhold the tools from the market.
Boba Fett v2
04-17-18, 19:30
Fantastic info! Thank you sir!
I know I am opening up a huge can of worms here... I recently picked up a BCM Jack (got it priced right). Love that thing... Honestly, would the Mod 2 be a huge step up from that rife? <-- I know this is a totally subjective question, am curious to hear some opinions though!
I stand corrected. I overlooked one critical step in the evolution, which was the introduction of the original SR15E3 IWS (essentially Mod 0) or "Legacy" carbine, which ushered in on those changes I previously mentioned. The Mod 1 refined what made the Legacy guns unique. Charlie Mike.
If that could happen, hopefully it'd open the door for barrels someday.
Again that’s not what I said. KAC won’t sell mod 2 gas block nut wrenches bc they (KAC) don’t want people dicking things up, which I get. But, I’d like to think such concerns are overblown and making wrenches available would be a net positive.
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