LPVO advice

[dhnut1973]

I don’t have the ability to check them out first hand so I’m looking for advice. I have checked specs and watched vids, but I’m interested in the thoughts here. I will be putting it on my DD M4A1 16” with BCM lower which is about 7 lbs 4 oz without optic so weight is a concern. Or should it be? I’m not sure the 8 oz or so difference between the scopes I’m considering would be that noticeable. I would like duty-grade durability and the price to stay under $1500. What are your thought on these?

Nightforce NX8 1-8
Vortex Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6
Trijicon Accupower 1-8
Steiner PX4i 1-4


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[Boba Fett v2]

With either one of those you're going to feel the weight and it's going to effect the balance. Depending on what you intend to do with it, my first choice of those listed would be the Steiner. If you need more range, the NX8. The Accupower DV is lacking and the Razor Gen II is a beast of an optic. Others will have varying opinions based on experience I'm sure.

[gunnerblue]

The NX8 is 17 oz. I use other scopes of the same weight (NXS 1-4 and MK 6 1-6) on rifles similar to yours and do not feel that the balance is ruined. I’ve also used Accupowers and feel that they are overall lacking in comparison with Nightforce compacts. I’ve never used the Steiner or Razor but I’ve heard that the latter is a pig- though seemingly popular.

[Boba Fett v2]

The NX8 is 17 oz. I use other scopes of the same weight (NXS 1-4 and MK 6 1-6) on rifles similar to yours and do not feel that the balance is ruined. I’ve also used Accupowers and feel that they are overall lacking in comparison with Nightforce compacts. I’ve never used the Steiner or Razor but I’ve heard that the latter is a pig- though seemingly popular.Didn't say it "ruined" the balance. I said it would affect the balance. To what degree really depends on you and how your rig is set up. I had a 17-ounce optic on my 16" SR15 and it definitely affected the balance when compared to a micro RDS, throwing just a little bit more weight towards the rear. Plenty of guys shooting LPVOs these days and it's really not that big a deal.

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[Furbyballer]

The new 21.5oz razor is the best all around optic in your list. If size and capability with drawbacks (Fov and eyebox) is what you want then go with the nx8.

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[gunnerblue]

Didn't say it "ruined" the balance. I said it would affect the balance. To what degree really depends on you and how your rig is set up. I had a 17-ounce optic on my 16" SR15 and it definitely affected the balance when compared to a micro RDS, throwing just a little bit more weight towards the rear. Plenty of guys shooting LPVOs these days and it's really not that big a deal.

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I wasn’t actually responding to your post, lol, but rather the OP. You’re right, balance is definitely affected-especially compared to a RDS. My point was that the handling quality with a 17 oz scope is not that noticeable (to me anyway).

I forgot that there is a new lighter weight Razor out there.

[Boba Fett v2]

I wasn’t actually responding to your post, lol, but rather the OP. You’re right, balance is definitely affected-especially compared to a RDS. My point was that the handling quality with a 17 oz scope is not that noticeable (to me anyway).

I forgot that there is a new lighter weight Razor out there.

My bad. I've looked through the Razors and they are stellar optics without a doubt. Just a bit on the chubby side for a 556 carbine IMO. Although the Gen II is comparable in size and weight to the NF 1-8x ATACR, which I feel are better suited for 762 set-ups.

[dhnut1973]

Thanks for all the replies so far and please keep them coming. I currently have a cheap Redfield Battlezone scope ( about 15 oz) and a weaver mount on the gun that brings it to 8lbs 10 oz. The weight is not terrible and I'm not sure the 10 oz difference between my scope and the heaviest I'm considering is worth worrying about.
I'm also surprised to hear some don't care for the eye box and relief of the NX8. At 17 oz it is the lightest 1-8 I'm looking at. I did notice the Razor HD II-E is lighter than earlier models at 21.5 oz and is usually recognized as the gold standard in its class. I wish I could look through and handle these scopes, it would make things easier for sure.
The range I shoot at is only 300 yards so I could also just go with the Steiner PX4I 1-4 which at 17 oz and has a daylight bright reticle for CQB drills, gets great reviews.
Thanks again for your advice and keep it coming.

[sidewaysil80]

Khales k16i

Imo the best LPVO on the market. Huge eyebox, forgiving eye relief, daylight bright, low weight, and proven durability.


But, for your needs just get the Steiner. Everything else is overkill/waste of money for a 14.5” BCM thats omly going to 300yds. Accupower 1-4 is a great optic for the price as well.

[gaijin]

Khales k16i

Imo the best LPVO on the market. Huge eyebox, forgiving eye relief, daylight bright, low weight, and proven durability.


But, for your needs just get the Steiner. Everything else is overkill/waste of money for a 14.5” BCM thats omly going to 300yds. Accupower 1-4 is a great optic for the price as well.

Of your presented choices- I sure agree with this- and for the same reason(s).

[dhnut1973]

I have considered the Steiner a lot and it seems to be a fine scope for under $600 to boot. The Kahles is out of my price range unfortunately. I was also considering just going with an ACOG, but I’ve heard that it costs $400 to recharge the tridium when it dies. I know they have battery powered ones now too, but I’m not sure how they perform.
I guess I should also look at the Vortex PST Gen II 1-6, it a little beefy at 22.+ oz though. Thanks again for the helpful suggestions.


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[sidewaysil80]

Fwiw the Khales can be had for about the same as the NX8, but it blows it out of the water imo. FFP and 8x is ridiculous for a LPVO as it negatively effects 1x performance;which is where my LPVO’s are used most. If you need FFP and 8x then you really need a dedicated precision rifle scope. The technology just doesn’t exist yet for Razor 1-6 or Khales field of view/eye box AND FFP or 8x top end.

Based on your distances and ranges and seemingly close to mid range distances, I would do a 1-4. It’ll give you all the magnification you need and save you a lot of money. As far as which one, I had the Trijcon Accupower but will likely replace it with the steiner. Field of view and eyebox are comparable but I like the idea of Steiner’s bright illumination. However, the segmented circle of Accupower while not daylight bright was easy to pick up due to size and boldness. Frankly I’m just waiting to get hands on with a Steiner before making the decision.

[BrigandTwoFour]

Honestly, if weight is of primary concern then a LPVO is the wrong path to take.

Any of the options listed are great optics, but they all have relatively high weight penalties compared to a compact fixed mag optic or a RDS.

[dhnut1973]

Light weight is not my primary concern, but is an added bonus for sure. The NF is attractive because of the mag range and it’s light weight. I should add the Khales is great, but I can get MIL/LEO discounts on the optics I’m considering. I haven’t found the Khales discounted anywhere though.


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[Boba Fett v2]

Fwiw the Khales can be had for about the same as the NX8, but it blows it out of the water imo. FFP and 8x is ridiculous for a LPVO as it negatively effects 1x performance;which is where my LPVO’s are used most. If you need FFP and 8x then you really need a dedicated precision rifle scope. The technology just doesn’t exist yet for Razor 1-6 or Khales field of view/eye box AND FFP or 8x top end.

Based on your distances and ranges and seemingly close to mid range distances, I would do a 1-4. It’ll give you all the magnification you need and save you a lot of money. As far as which one, I had the Trijcon Accupower but will likely replace it with the steiner. Field of view and eyebox are comparable but I like the idea of Steiner’s bright illumination. However, the segmented circle of Accupower while not daylight bright was easy to pick up due to size and boldness. Frankly I’m just waiting to get hands on with a Steiner before making the decision.

The CC feature on the current S&B 1-8x Shortdot CC and the upcoming 1-8x ShortDot Dual CC addresses this, no? Although admittedly price way above what most would pay for an LPVO, and I'm hearing the new soon to be released Steiner 1-6x and current 1-8x ATACR both feature true 1x. I might still get the new S&B when released to compare to the ATACR. Winner gets to stay.

[pointblank4445]

The CC feature on the current S&B 1-8x Shortdot CC and the upcoming 1-8x ShortDot Dual CC addresses this, no? Although admittedly price way above what most would pay for an LPVO, and I'm hearing the new soon to be released Steiner 1-6x and current 1-8x ATACR both feature true 1x. I might still get the new S&B when released to compare to the ATACR. Winner gets to stay.

The "CC" feature just resets your parallax to 7y instead of the 100y for the rest of your magnification range. I've had to send mine back for recalibration and suspect that this feature could cause more problems than solutions in S&B optics that feature the "CC" setting. My concern for the Dual CC is the reticle in that it will be too weak to use below 8x. NF is doing FFP right in their reticle designs in that there are features of the reticle that remain strong at 1x and don't leave the user dependent upon electronics.

[Boba Fett v2]

The "CC" feature just resets your parallax to 7y instead of the 100y for the rest of your magnification range. I've had to send mine back for recalibration and suspect that this feature could cause more problems than solutions in S&B optics that feature the "CC" setting.

Interesting. Why did it need to be recalibrated?

[pointblank4445]

Got stuck on 7 yard parallax...

4-8x was a blurry mess...still could be used at lower mag. It's been fine since then, but the 1-8CC is far from my favorite S&B SD model...

[Boba Fett v2]

Got stuck on 7 yard parallax...

4-8x was a blurry mess...still could be used at lower mag.I see. I wonder if perfecting this system is the reason for such a long delay in the rollout of the Dual CC version.

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[gunnerblue]

Light weight is not my primary concern, but is an added bonus for sure. The NF is attractive because of the mag range and it’s light weight. I should add the Khales is great, but I can get MIL/LEO discounts on the optics I’m considering. I haven’t found the Khales discounted anywhere though.


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Email Swarovski (Khales parent/sister company) and request their government pricing. You’ll be pleased.

[dhnut1973]

Email Swarovski (Khales parent/sister company) and request their government pricing. You’ll be pleased.

Thanks, I’ll check them out


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[Biggy]

I like my Kahles 16i , but I also like my new Leupold VX5-HD 1-5x24, daylight bright Firedot Duplex reticle, great glass, good eye box and FOV, Locking CDS elevation dial, weight just over 14 oz. For my application, 0-300 to maybe 400yds max it works really well. No issues with it so far and I like everything about it. I got mine for $790.

[Korgs130]

I like a LPVO with a single illuminated red dot and I have both the Vortex Razor 1-6 Gen 2 and the Steiner PX4i. The Razor is on my Noveske NSR 14.5” and the Steiner is on BCM KMR 14.5”. The Razor is a fantastic optic, but it is HEAVY. I use 1.93” mounts and like Boba said those 25+ ounces do throw the balance and over all feel of the gun off a bit. Is it manageable? Yes it is. It it optimal? For me it isn’t, but I still like it.

The BCM with the Steiner is my preferred set up for my “go to” rifle / training rifle. My range only goes out to 250 yards and I feel it gives me more than enough capability. While the PX4i doesn’t offer the clarity or the 6 power of the Razor, it’s lighter weight just makes the gun handle better. I like the reticle a bit better than the Razor as the dot on the Steiner seems crisper to me and I find the crosshairs slightly easier to pick up without illumination. Factor in the price and the PX4i come out on top IMHO.

[dhnut1973]

I like a LPVO with a single illuminated red dot and I have both the Vortex Razor 1-6 Gen 2 and the Steiner PX4i. The Razor is on my Noveske NSR 14.5” and the Steiner is on BCM KMR 14.5”. The Razor is a fantastic optic, but it is HEAVY. I use 1.93” mounts and like Boba said those 25+ ounces do throw the balance and over all feel of the gun off a bit. Is it manageable? Yes it is. It it optimal? For me it isn’t, but I still like it.

The BCM with the Steiner is my preferred set up for my “go to” rifle / training rifle. My range only goes out to 250 yards and I feel it gives me more than enough capability. While the PX4i doesn’t offer the clarity or the 6 power of the Razor, it’s lighter weight just makes the gun handle better. I like the reticle a bit better than the Razor as the dot on the Steiner seems crisper to me and I find the crosshairs slightly easier to pick up without illumination. Factor in the price and the PX4i come out on top IMHO.

This is the kind of info I’m lookin for, Thanks a lot


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[dhnut1973]

I like my Kahles 16i , but I also like my new Leupold VX5-HD 1-5x24, daylight bright Firedot Duplex reticle, great glass, good eye box and FOV, Locking CDS elevation dial, weight just over 14 oz. For my application, 0-300 to maybe 400yds max it works really well. No issues with it so far and I like everything about it. I got mine for $790.

I’ll check the Leupy out as well then, thanks


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[Biggy]

I’ll check the Leupy out as well then, thanks


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I got mine from SportOptics.com

[Mr McSimon]

I like my Kahles 16i , but I also like my new Leupold VX5-HD 1-5x24, daylight bright Firedot Duplex reticle, great glass, good eye box and FOV, Locking CDS elevation dial, weight just over 14 oz. For my application, 0-300 to maybe 400yds max it works really well. No issues with it so far and I like everything about it. I got mine for $790.

Is that VX5 waterproof? Are any of these choices?

[Biggy]

Is that VX5 waterproof? Are any of these choices?

Yes, the VX5-HD is 100% waterproof and Fogproof. I am 99% sure the other ones we are talking about are also. It should be in the specs on all the manufacturers websites.

[ExplorinInTheWoods]

The Steiner is nice, a buddy has one, daylight bright and affordable. The vortex is heavy, good glass, not my favorite reticle. Accupower is daylight bright with red, best reticle in my opinion, I run it in 3gun and want another for a 308 battle rifle optic. I've banged mine around and put a good nick into it but no problems with it. Battery life isn't that great but I only run illumination when I have it cranked down on 1x.

[SiGfever]

I had a Accupower 1-4 Green segmented reticle and it was a nice scope, just not daylight bright. I sold it for the Steiner and for the money it is hard to beat. Light, daylight bright, and a non cluttered reticle. If you look at the Accupower, look at this model in "Red", it is brighter than the green, and if I had of gotten this reticle instead of the segmented circle, I probably would still have it. If I had the money, the Khales or Nightforce would be my choice.

https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=RS24-C-1900000

[dhnut1973]

Here’s an update on my LPVO search. I got a lot of good info here so I continued my research on the best optic for my carbine needs. I ended up going with the Steiner P4xi from Sport Optics at a great price(thanks to the guy that recommended them). I chose the Steiner because of the good glass, daylight bright dot, eye relief, and relatively low weight. I also like the reticle because it’s similar to the ACOG I used in the military.
Thanks again for all the advice and recommendations. I’ll post pics once I get it mounted and zeroed.


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[Boba Fett v2]

Sounds like you made a good choice. I picked one up myself. Charlie Mike.

[nightchief]

I recently bought the Steiner 1x4 also from Sport Optics. I think you’ll like it. Today, I verified the zero at 200 and 300 yds on a 16” BCM. Bullet drop reticle was pretty much dead on on the c zone ipsc Target. I found the balance and weight not to be much of an issue. I was hitting the steel pretty consistently kneeling unsupported. Was hitting at almost 100% prone supported. Very nice LPVO for the the money if not needing range beyond 400 yards.

5160951610


Here’s an update on my LPVO search. I got a lot of good info here so I continued my research on the best optic for my carbine needs. I ended up going with the Steiner P4xi from Sport Optics at a great price(thanks to the guy that recommended them). I chose the Steiner because of the good glass, daylight bright dot, eye relief, and relatively low weight. I also like the reticle because it’s similar to the ACOG I used in the military.
Thanks again for all the advice and recommendations. I’ll post pics once I get it mounted and zeroed.


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[SiGfever]

I recently bought the Steiner 1x4 also from Sport Optics. I think you’ll like it. Today, I verified the zero at 200 and 300 yds on a 16” BCM. Bullet drop reticle was pretty much dead on on the c zone ipsc Target. I found the balance and weight not to be much of an issue. I was hitting the steel pretty consistently kneeling unsupported. Was hitting at almost 100% prone supported. Very nice LPVO for the the money if not needing range beyond 400 yards.

5160951610

Congratulations on a great choice and a great rifle.

[dhnut1973]

I recently bought the Steiner 1x4 also from Sport Optics. I think you’ll like it. Today, I verified the zero at 200 and 300 yds on a 16” BCM. Bullet drop reticle was pretty much dead on on the c zone ipsc Target. I found the balance and weight not to be much of an issue. I was hitting the steel pretty consistently kneeling unsupported. Was hitting at almost 100% prone supported. Very nice LPVO for the the money if not needing range beyond 400 yards.

5160951610

Good looking setup you got there. I also have an ADM mount coming, it will be my first so I hope I like it. I’m sure I will because it looks very similar to my Larue. I think the Steiner will serve me well out to 400 and for CQB drills as well. Anything further than 400 and that’s what my Grendel is for. Thanks again for sharing.


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[dhnut1973]

My Steiner came earlier in the week and my ADM mount finally came today. I got it mounted up and ready for the range and zeroing. The P4xi glass is very clear, it’s daylight bright as advertised, and it balances well on my carbine. I need to get out to shoot to confirm my conclusion, but I think it’s gonna suit my needs well. Here’s the goods on the setup.

DD M4A1 16” URG
SOLGW BCG and CH
BCM LRG
Tango Down Short grip with ADM lever
ADM Recon Mount
Steiner P4XI 1-4

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/65ce2525c630c5fb7e0feeb68d8245a0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/4ea7ad984e56de317339a0d0b70df90f.jpg




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