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Jay Cunningham
10-21-08, 13:08
American Gun Owner = Trained Jihadist
The Uighur saga provides a window on Obama-style counterterrorism.

By Andrew C. McCarthy

Are you a bitter clinger? One of those American gun owners belittled by Sen. Barack Obama, filled with antipathy for people who aren’t like you? You know, people like foreign Muslims whose idea of a few weeks’ vacation is a course of paramilitary training at an al-Qaeda-affiliated camp?

Well, if you are, you’ll be pleased to know that an appellate judge — one of the Obama philosophical bent that will be seeded throughout the federal courts if the Senator is elected president two weeks from now — thinks you are every bit as dangerous as those trained terrorists.

Such is the latest lesson in the saga of the 17 Uighur detainees held at Guantanamo Bay.

The good news is that a divided panel of the federal appeals court in Washington has, at least for the moment, stayed district judge Ricardo Urbina’s order that these trained jihadists be released into the United States. The bad news is that the panel was divided, 2-1. And, to put it mildly, the reasoning of the dissenting judge, Clinton appointee Judith W. Rogers, is astounding.

The case will be argued to the appeals court on November 24.

Some quick background: The Uighurs are Chinese Muslims captured by coalition forces after the American invasion of Afghanistan. The men are jihadist trainees, all of whom received instruction in the paramilitary camps of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement — a designated terrorist organization affiliated with al-Qaeda.

The military has taken an incoherent position on the Uighurs, the sum of its haste to empty the much maligned Gitmo plus its stubborn, politically correct disregard for the tenets of jihadist ideology. Thus, these detainees are deemed not to be a threat to the United States, only to China, yet somehow still to be “enemy combatants.” Meanwhile, the State Department is desperately trying to find a country willing to accept the men. (State has previously persuaded Albania to take five other Uighur detainees.)

Though China would gladly take the Uighurs, U.S. treaty obligations forbid such repatriation because we have reason to think they’d be persecuted there. Moreover, because no other country wants trouble with the Chicoms, none is willing to step up to the plate to relieve our quandary.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit told the government in June that it needed to come up with a better rationale for branding the Uighurs enemy combatants. Judge Urbina then dramatically upped the ante, not only concluding the detainees were not combatants but ordering them released into the United States. The government sought an emergency stay of that order so that the D.C. Circuit could hear its appeal.

That was the occasion for yesterday’s ruling, and for Judge Rogers to share her very interesting views. As the Washington Post reports (italics mine):

Justice Department lawyers have argued that only the president or Congress has the legal authority to order the Uighurs’ release into the United States. They have also said that immigration laws would preclude them from entering the country because they received weapons training at a camp operated by a designated terror organization.

Rogers rejected those arguments, writing that courts have the power to order the release under habeas corpus, a centuries-old legal doctrine that allows prisoners or detainees to challenge their confinement in federal court. The judge also rejected the argument that immigration laws would bar the Uighurs' entry, writing that such an interpretation would "rob" the men's rights of meaning.

Even if the men had received weapons training, she wrote, that "cannot alone show they are dangerous, unless millions of United States resident citizens who have received fire arms training are deemed to be dangerous as well."

Remarkable.

To begin with, the political branches are supreme in matters of border control. This is why, for example, even American citizens can be searched without warrant when entering or leaving the United States. The Supreme Court has long held that border control is a key aspect of sovereignty; it is for Congress to set conditions regarding who gets to come into our country, and for the president to execute those limitations as well as guard against the entry of people (or materials) who may be threatening.

As NR’s editors observed last week, Congress has included in the conditions it has set proscriptions against the entry of aliens who have had paramilitary training in terrorist camps or are members of terrorist organizations. The Uighurs are disqualified under both categories.

Step back for a second and note the contrast. We endured three years of commentariat teeth-gnashing when it became known that President Bush violated the FISA statute by conducting surveillance without warrants. This is not the occasion for rehearsing the merits of that debate (for anyone who cares, I've already had plenty to say about it — for example, here). But one can only marvel at how the minds of our intelligentsia work.

Why do they assume it is an imperious affront (some said an impeachable offense) for a president trying to defend the lives of Americans to run afoul of statutes, but it’s just peachy for a judge to violate statutes for the purpose of allowing trained jihadists to move into our country and live among our citizens? Let’s leave aside the obvious fact that a judge, with no institutional competence in security matters, is more apt to make a bad decision. The judge is politically unaccountable: We can get rid of a president who endangers us; what do we do about the judge?



Judge Rogers claimed that continued detention would deprive the Uighurs of their rights. Of course, alien detainees now have constitutional rights thanks to the Supreme Court’s 5-4 decision in the Boumediene case at the end of last term. Against history, precedent and common sense, the Court’s liberal bloc held that aliens are vested with Article I’s habeas corpus guarantee — the right to challenge one’s detention in court.

That was the feature of the ruling applauded by Sen. Obama. He says all this chitter-chatter about tension “between fighting terrorism and respecting habeas corpus” is a “false choice.” Really? So we can fight terrorist paramilitary training that threatens our citizens and respect habeas corpus by moving the trained terrorists into our citizens’ neighborhoods? No choice there, right?

In fact, habeas corpus is just a right of access to court. It doesn’t tell a judge what she is authorized to do. That is Congress’s job. If it is to be the case that “habeas corpus” means the judge can ignore Congress and do whatever she subjectively thinks “justice” requires, how is that anything other than a blank check?

Again, our legal elites told us the sky would fall and the Constitution lay in tatters if the president’s war powers were construed as a blank check to run roughshod over congressional enactments and judicial oversight. Fine, but then how do we rein in the imperial judiciary? Given their lack of accountability, aren’t judges the last officials who ought to be getting a blank check in a democratic society?

Most unbelievable of all, though, is Judge Rogers’s take on guns. Can you imagine drawing a moral and factual equivalence between United States citizens who own firearms and alien terrorist trainees who have gone to jihadist camps and received instruction in explosives, close-combat, assassination tactics, and jihadist ideology? The mind reels.

Sen. Obama has indicated that, if elected, he will return us to his vision of the “rule of law”: The pre-9/11 days when counterterrorism was the province of the federal courts. How reassuring that, as Colin Powell assures us, Obama is possessed of such “intellectual rigor.” After all, that’s what enables him to shun the simplistic Bush approach of regarding terrorists as wartime enemies . . . and all its attendant false choices.

Sure, the Uighurs may move in next door to you. But not to worry: Obama promises you’ll have the enormous satisfaction of knowing your reputation in the international community — in places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan — is now markedly improved. And you can sleep well at night knowing jurists just like Judith Rogers could soon be filling vacancies on federal courts throughout the country.




— National Review’s Andrew C. McCarthy chairs the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies’s Center for Law & Counterterrorism and is the author of Willful Blindness: A Memoir of the Jihad (Encounter Books 2008).


http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzcyZjU2NWY4MjhkYjczYTg2ZmYyNmEyZTg0OGVkYmQ=&w=MA==

IROCZ
10-22-08, 21:07
WTF?!!!!!?????, Over.:eek:

FromMyColdDeadHand
10-22-08, 23:31
Drop them off in Judge Rogers house. That would make for a good sit-com show. Just drop them over the fence into Cuba, they did it to us with the boat lifts.

After 9/11, Madrid, London and Bali, what is it going to take for some people to get it?

How much you want to bet when she say's "paramilitary training" she is talking about the Boy Scouts. What do you think Al-queda does with gay troop leaders?

Avenger11
10-23-08, 06:12
After 9/11, Madrid, London and Bali, what is it going to take for some people to get it?

It's going to take something that makes them change the course of their daily life for a very long time.

I for one encourage all United States citizens to get as much weapons training as they can. One thing I have learned fighting an insurgency for the last several years is how to fight as an insurgent. Everyone that has fought in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq should have a pretty good idea of how to fight as an insurgent.

Why is this important? Because a well trained and capable militia or insurgent force will defeat a much larger army. The majority of our dead and wounded from OIF and OEF are not from artillery barrages, precision guided weapons or tank assaults, it's from a couple of sheep herders that walk out and place an IED on a roadside. I am not implying we are losing over here, just that it's not an organized army that is causing us harm.

If the United States is ever invaded, it will be those Americans that took it upon themselves to be armed and received weapons training that will be our strongest defense.

losbronces
10-23-08, 22:56
I'm sure Hugo Chavez would take them. Of course then they might wind up in Colombia, Panama or Peru working with Hugo's buds.

i303
10-24-08, 04:23
The only thing I have to say about this is,.....

Bak dirk dirk Allah. Dirka, dirka. Muhammed Jihad, dirka, dirka.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdKEIogubt4

Oohh! Dirka, dirka, dirka.




Off topic a bit, but also funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYR8uQjTpaM

Yojimbo
10-24-08, 08:50
We're much worse than the trained Jihadist. In fact we're the Jihadist's worst nightmare...the trained Infidel!

crebralfix
10-24-08, 09:07
Ummm...I agree with the dissenting judge up to a point.

It's NOT the weapons training that makes them dangerous. It's their ideology.

I agree that the training shouldn't the only indicator that they are dangerous...and it appears that's how the question was formulated.

What makes them dangerous is that they were in a TERRORIST TRAINING CAMP. The gun skills are incidental.

However, Congress HAS stated that such training IS grounds for prevention of entry. Since the courts have to interpret current law, I question this judge's knowledge of the job.

rmecapn
10-24-08, 09:25
If the United States is ever invaded ...

A foreign invader is the least of my worries. A Marxist CinC, supported by a Marxist congress, and enforced by blindly obedient military and law enforcement organizations is my very real nightmare. And it grows closer to reality each passing day, if I am to believe the polls.

DarkX
10-24-08, 15:15
I know of very few who fight so that terrorist slime can have any of the rights afforded to our citizens.....the right to be here???......Habeus Corpus????? ****ing kill them and be done with it.

Hard nosed...yes
tired of it all....yes
Sick at my stomach that this country has enough ****ing idiots in it to be on the verge of electing a socialist....oh hell yeah....you bet I am.

Patience....none
Tolerance.....whats that

Rant off..............I am just pissed.

Avenger11
10-24-08, 17:30
A foreign invader is the least of my worries. ..

Did you notice how I did not use the word "foreign". ;)

ddemis
10-25-08, 00:58
Everyone face it, if obama gets in office all american gun owners, especially the ones who have training like myself will be seen as a threat to " The change we all need " and be targeted for disarmament. Like I have said in the past, if this becomes a reality get ready for civil war, and it won't be pretty.

CCK
10-25-08, 18:17
A foreign invader is the least of my worries. A Marxist CinC, supported by a Marxist congress, and enforced by blindly obedient military and law enforcement organizations is my very real nightmare. And it grows closer to reality each passing day, if I am to believe the polls.

I'm not sure we are too far off from that right now, just exchange Marxist for Fascist.

No Knock drug warrants for non violent offenders
Warrant-less wiretapping, that we have to "make legal"
Detaining American citizens without access to counsel.
Prescription drug benefits that benefit big Pharma.
And 700 BILLION to bankers who made bad loans.

IF you think McCain will change any of the above you aren't paying attention.

Its not Right VS Left, Its the STATE VS YOU!

mtk
10-25-08, 19:50
Everyone face it, if obama gets in office all american gun owners, especially the ones who have training like myself will be seen as a threat to " The change we all need " and be targeted for disarmament. Like I have said in the past, if this becomes a reality get ready for civil war, and it won't be pretty.

OK, but as Thomas Jefferson said, the Tree of Liberty needs watering every now and then.

And yes, I know that is from the Declaration of Independence. To me, that is the single most important document of the American Revolution, far more important than the Constitution. No matter how the Constitution may be bastardized, the DoI is a statement of principles that is non-negotiable.

One of those principles is if the government oversteps its bounds the people hold the right to hit the reset button on the whole thing.

Take that for what it is worth.