View Full Version : 9/11 15 years later
There's an interesting editorial in a physics pub written by people with the creds (Mechanical engineers, in Architects & Engineers, etc) to discuss the topic, vs the usual stuff from conspiracy plebs. It's a worthy read that brings up important Qs worth re examining, though I personally do not think those buildings fell from any separate mechanisms from what we already know of. At the same time, if there's legit Qs left and evidence that does not support the early conclusions from people with the creds to do it and passed muster in such a publication, then it's worth noting and considering. Should it be re opened?
End of the day, I think the simplest answer to it it the correct answer: Yes, no modern skyscraper has ever fallen due to fire, but none has ever been hit by a plane full of fuel. Yes, the buildings were designed to withstand it, but plenty of designs don't stand up to real world physics when tested, and these buildings did not. Some designs work in the real world, some don't, and once in a while, you get a perfect storm where a design is tested in such a way it exposes specific design flaws, and people die. Much is learned from it however, and life drives on. The shear logistics of placing controlled explosives in both those buildings, and then timing that to the planes crashing, etc etc is just not realistic in my view, even if it was not all done in total secret.
The conclusion:
"It bears repeating that fires have never caused the total
collapse of a steel-framed high-rise before or since 9/11.
Did we witness an unprecedented event three separate
times on September 11, 2001? The NIST reports, which
attempted to support that unlikely conclusion, fail to per
suade a growing number of architects, engineers, and
scientists. Instead, the evidence points overwhelmingly
to the conclusion that all three buildings were destroyed
by controlled demolition. Given the far-reaching implications,
it is morally imperative that this hypothesis be
the subject of a truly scientific and impartial investigation
by responsible authorities."
Full paper:
https://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2016/04/epn2016474p21.pdf
Doc Safari
04-18-18, 10:47
The truth will never be known for sure. That's how they want it. What amazes me is that the attack was funded, planned, and carried out mostly by Saudi Arabians probably with help from the Saudi government.
So we attacked Iraq and Afghanistan.
RetroRevolver77
04-18-18, 10:52
The truth will never be known for sure. That's how they want it. What amazes me is that the attack was funded, planned, and carried out mostly by Saudi Arabians probably with help from the Saudi government.
So we attacked Iraq and Afghanistan.
The real question is how much did our government know because it seems that once that information came out that it involved the Saudi's- we should have been at war against them.
Maybe buildings 1 and 2, but I’m sorry building 6 seems a stretch.
I recall speaking with 3 engineers at my work the day it happened. None expressed doubts that it could happen the way we saw it and explained to me why it did. My wife, also an engineer, sees no conspiracy and doesn't question the aircraft causing the damage.
Full disclosure, none of the engineers designed or built skyscrapers. They were well versed in the science of them however.
The truth will never be known for sure. That's how they want it. What amazes me is that the attack was funded, planned, and carried out mostly by Saudi Arabians probably with help from the Saudi government.
So we attacked Iraq and Afghanistan.
A fleet of cruise missiles should have struck key Saudi locations within days of that event. We just sent such a fleet over far less. Instead, we flew his family out of the US from Boston area on US gov planes. I do not believe for a second OBL family was not aware of his location after the event. They all should have been held and questioned for as long as we deemed reasonable and told the Saudi's to go f themselves when they complained.
The real question is how much did our government know because it seems that once that information came out that it involved the Saudi's- we should have been at war against them.
Was not even the mention of the possibility of Saudi government involvement not kept from public view from the report for many years?
Maybe buildings 1 and 2, but I’m sorry building 6 seems a stretch.
Indeed, but a stretch to what I don't know. If done by charges placed, and you want to convince a country it was via the planes, would you blow up a building not hit by planes? No as all that does if aware people it may not be the planes. I personally do not think there's a chance in hell an op that large and detailed that required that many people and moving parts, could be kept under wraps.
I recall speaking with 3 engineers at my work the day it happened. None expressed doubts that it could happen the way we saw it and explained to me why it did. My wife, also an engineer, sees no conspiracy and doesn't question the aircraft causing the damage.
Full disclosure, none of the engineers designed or built skyscrapers. They were well versed in the science of them however.
Good intel.
I am not an engineer, but I am a self educated expert in logistics. Taking the known amount of explosive material required to bring down the buildings, the man power required to place that material, the know how and expertise to place it in the correct place, and the time period required to do so; I cannot make myself believe that it was a controlled demolition. Now couple that with the inability of large groups of people to keep secrets and I have an even greater doubt that it was a demolition job.
You put wind to a fuel and amazing things start to happen.
having talked to a lot of engineer folks and even some folks that were in the building that day and worked there also one who lost pretty much all his friends on the one floor that got direct hit
nothing was out of place that day and as some who take down buildings have said no way was it taken down with munitions
one the combination of fuel and plane no way to control the detonation timings
also told you ever see what goes into taking down a building the amount of wires that would be all over the building and also the massive amount of prep in drilling cutting foundations and supports for a clean down
there is no way you could ever do that in a building occupied and the amount of time it takes and man power everyone would have noticed etc..
I was on Maui then working on boats and would talk to a ton of tourists daily and for a long while that subject always came up :)
but I do believe its such a silly thing to think it was done with munitions
also the whole built to withstand a hit ? well they did take it and by bigger planes then were even around then
it was not designed for that amount of fuel and the fuel leaking to the center core
or one of the architects that was on the design team
SWIRSKY: I imagine, when I saw the pictures of the implosion of the building, it looks like the fuel must have leaked right to the core of the building, and from there it was the massive explosion that caused the building to collapse. So it was something completely unforeseen, so far as the design criteria was (concerned).
but I do think our gov knew it was going to happen
just like the boston bombers
just like pearl harbor
and other events
Agreed. Fire alone may not be enough but half if a couple of floors and their supports wiped out and likely severe damage to the core would certainly start some collapse. Then it snowballs. And it was not just building material fire, it was thousands of pounds of jet fuel. Much hotter than normal fire.
If anything the conspiracy theory may have been started to divert attention from the resl conspiracy already mentioned about foreknowledge, and protection of Saudis.
Moose-Knuckle
04-18-18, 18:56
No plane debirs/parts were found at the Pentagon....
No plane debirs/parts were found at the Pentagon....
Thays because it was a cruise missle...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No plane debirs/parts were found at the Pentagon....
Really?
Though dozens of witnesses saw a Boeing 757 hit the building, conspiracy advocates insist there is evidence that a missile or a different type of plane smashed into the Pentagon.
I know, part of the conspiracy, correct?
Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
While searching through wreckage inside the building, firefighters Carlton Burkhammer and Brian Moravitz "spotted an intact seat from the plane's cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached." Burkhammer also "spotted lime-green pieces from the interior of the plane" within the building. http://www.msnbc.com/news/635293.asp
CMSgt. John Monaccio wrote: "I was in room 1B461. The plane's inertia carried aircraft remains all the way through the building coming to rest on the outside walls of our offices. We discovered cockpit wreckage at our feet while attempting to rescue people from a Navy operations area." http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon-email_20020316.html
ARFF Captain Michael Defina said: "The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear." http://www.nfpa.org/NFPAJournal/OnlineExclusive/Exclusive_11_01_01/exclusive_11.01.01.asp
"I thought it was a terrorist bomb. . . .But then I saw the landing gear. It was on the ground in the alley between the B and C rings. When I saw it there, not only did I realize an airplane had struck the Pentagon but it was clear that the plane had come through the E, D, and C buildings to get there." (Paul K. Carlton, Jr., U.S. Air Force surgeon general, quoted by Dean Murphy, "September 11: An Oral History," p. 216
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a5659/debunking-911-myths-pentagon/
http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm
Pretty sure all parties aren't involved in a cover-up.
Moose-Knuckle
04-19-18, 03:16
Really?
Though dozens of witnesses saw a Boeing 757 hit the building, conspiracy advocates insist there is evidence that a missile or a different type of plane smashed into the Pentagon.
I know, part of the conspiracy, correct?
Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
While searching through wreckage inside the building, firefighters Carlton Burkhammer and Brian Moravitz "spotted an intact seat from the plane's cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached." Burkhammer also "spotted lime-green pieces from the interior of the plane" within the building. http://www.msnbc.com/news/635293.asp
CMSgt. John Monaccio wrote: "I was in room 1B461. The plane's inertia carried aircraft remains all the way through the building coming to rest on the outside walls of our offices. We discovered cockpit wreckage at our feet while attempting to rescue people from a Navy operations area." http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon-email_20020316.html
ARFF Captain Michael Defina said: "The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear." http://www.nfpa.org/NFPAJournal/OnlineExclusive/Exclusive_11_01_01/exclusive_11.01.01.asp
"I thought it was a terrorist bomb. . . .But then I saw the landing gear. It was on the ground in the alley between the B and C rings. When I saw it there, not only did I realize an airplane had struck the Pentagon but it was clear that the plane had come through the E, D, and C buildings to get there." (Paul K. Carlton, Jr., U.S. Air Force surgeon general, quoted by Dean Murphy, "September 11: An Oral History," p. 216
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a5659/debunking-911-myths-pentagon/
http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm
Pretty sure all parties aren't involved in a cover-up.
The Russians must have gotten to all of those folks. :sarcastic:
The Russians must have gotten to all of those folks. :sarcastic:
Plenty of parts found, and thousands saw a plane fly into that building,
"Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a5659/debunking-911-myths-pentagon/
militarymoron
04-19-18, 08:38
No plane debirs/parts were found at the Pentagon....
Let's not let conspiracy theories dishonor those who lost their lives on that plane. I had two co-workers who were on AA Flt 77:
https://pentagonmemorial.org/explore/biographies/chandler-r-keller
https://pentagonmemorial.org/explore/biographies/ruben-s-ornedo
Whether it was that plane or something else that crashed into the Pentagon, I know that these two good people vanished from the lives of all around them. That's real.
MM: Sorry for the loss of your friends.
I apologize for the somewhat snarky reply to Moose. From the perspective of time and distance it is easy to lose track of the fact that real people lost their lives in the attack and the cost to their families and friends.
Averageman
04-19-18, 12:47
I was at a wake of all places and my cousin's hipster husband started in on the whole conspiracy theory (theories) on this.
My Uncle who owns the Bar and is a vet reached across the bar, poured his whiskey down the drain and asked him to find a ride because he had to go.
If there was a conspiracy, it was about getting the families of the Saudi's out of the US safely and Bin Laden's family was a priority.
The Saudi's still deserve a kick in the ads for their part in this.
Instead we're in Syria, intentionally or not, clearing the way for their pipeline.
RetroRevolver77
04-19-18, 13:17
Thays because it was a cruise missle...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No I remember seeing news footage inside the Pentagon after the attack. There were walls down, water flowing from pipes that were broken and I remember them panning around the area where a wheel from a
jet can be seen along with other debris. I have no doubt a jet hit the building. What I question is who knew that was going to happen and since it involved the Saudi government- then why was nothing ever done to them? Why no repercussions?
I was at a wake of all places and my cousin's hipster husband started in on the whole conspiracy theory (theories) on this.
My Uncle who owns the Bar and is a vet reached across the bar, poured his whiskey down the drain and asked him to find a ride because he had to go.
If there was a conspiracy, it was about getting the families of the Saudi's out of the US safely and Bin Laden's family was a priority.
The Saudi's still deserve a kick in the ads for their part in this.
Instead we're in Syria, intentionally or not, clearing the way for their pipeline.
I almost forgot. Even many of the controlled demo claimers realizing the logistics of that to do on the ground without anyone noticing was impossible, the latest claim is the towers were taken down via secret gov energy weapon. I will not post a link as i don't wish to drive any traffic to those idiots, but that's what's replaced the idea of planted charges for some of them.
MM: Sorry for the loss of your friends.
I apologize for the somewhat snarky reply to Moose. From the perspective of time and distance it is easy to lose track of the fact that real people lost their lives in the attack and the cost to their families and friends.
I think a lot of Americans, particularly the open borders libtards, have forgotten the horror fellow Americans faced that day.
No plane debirs/parts were found at the Pentagon....
OFFS....stop
contax_shooter
04-19-18, 22:00
Thx for ur cervix.
TRUMP PAID THE RUSSIANS TO DO IT
Amazed have not heard this yet
I think a lot of Americans, particularly the open borders libtards, have forgotten the horror fellow Americans faced that day.
I fear we ALL find it too easy to write off the pain and suffering that takes place outside our immediate circle.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.