View Full Version : Toronto Van Attack (4/23/18)
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-23-18, 15:36
It sounded at first like there were just injuries, but now Drudge says 9 killed.
Gun fire would bring it to an end.
I know, from first hand knowledge twice.
Whiskey_Bravo
04-23-18, 16:10
I am no expert but he sounds middle eastern to me....
https://twitter.com/NewsNerve/status/988494765871247361/video/1
Gun fire would bring it to an end.
I know, from first hand knowledge twice.
I recall that happened in Israel at least a few times I can remember. Obviously time to ban assault vans.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-23-18, 16:44
"Our hearts go out to anyone affected. We're obviously going to have more to learn and more to say in the coming hours," he said. -Truedumb
At least in America you get thoughts and prayers- just thoughts in Canada.
SomeOtherGuy
04-23-18, 16:55
Van of Peace brings you a greater death toll than most shootings...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5648591/Van-strikes-eight-pedestrians-Toronto-flees-scene.html
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-23-18, 17:05
BREAKING NEWS: Former NYC Police commissioner Bill Bratton states on MSNBC his sources in Canada say van driver in Toronto was known to Police and now consider incident a terrorist attack.
I don't see the actual source on MSNBC. I find it odd that the source is named, rather than some generic source. Fake news? Only referred to on media I'm unfamiliar with.
Guys name is Armenian, for what that is worth.
I don't see the actual source on MSNBC. I find it odd that the source is named, rather than some generic source. Fake news? Only referred to on media I'm unfamiliar with.
Guys name is Armenian, for what that is worth.I was about to say the same thing.
I know that intersection, I have relatives living in that general area. It has a big Soviet/E. European community
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Diamondback
04-23-18, 18:37
Per the GF, one of their big subway stations is near that intersection--Target Rich Environment for a wannabe Mass Killer.
Stupid question: what load for Minivan Maniac out of a 10.3? Assuming M995 Black Tip is unavailable and you're stuck with Civvy Legal...
I recall that happened in Israel at least a few times I can remember. Obviously time to ban assault vans.
It has happened a lot and 99% of the time we shoot the driver dead right there! So it has died off.
Per the GF, one of their big subway stations is near that intersection--Target Rich Environment for a wannabe Mass Killer.
Stupid question: what load for Minivan Maniac out of a 10.3? Assuming M995 Black Tip is unavailable and you're stuck with Civvy Legal...
Punching through windshield or door... Really any good bonded soft point like Gold Dot or Fusion or a good solid like a TSX or GMX.
From my experience even the lowly M855 does decent through a windshield.
SomeOtherGuy
04-23-18, 19:23
Stupid question: what load for Minivan Maniac out of a 10.3? Assuming M995 Black Tip is unavailable and you're stuck with Civvy Legal...
But realistically most of us won't have a SBR on us when this kind of thing happens. Better question is what handgun ammo will be useful post-windshield. I'm betting any US-made bonded JHP, like Speer Gold Dot for one example, but will defer to experts.
They have the driver in custody but haven't released a name or motive yet. But the mayor of Toronto said:
"This is a time when this community should come together," Toronto Mayor John Tory said at an afternoon press conference. "I hope that we will, as a city, remind ourselves of the fact that we are admired around the world for being inclusive and for being accepting and understanding and considerate."
So it looks like we know where this is headed.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/04/23/van-plows-into-crowd-in-toronto-nine-dead-driver-in-custody-cops-say.html
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-23-18, 19:44
I don't see the actual source on MSNBC. I find it odd that the source is named, rather than some generic source. Fake news? Only referred to on media I'm unfamiliar with.
Guys name is Armenian, for what that is worth.
Bratton's twitter feed has nothing about it... Nothing on MSNBC.
SomeOtherGuy
04-23-18, 20:55
never mind
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-23-18, 21:00
Was the YouTube shooter Armenian too?
Was the YouTube shooter Armenian too?
Youtube shooter was Iranian.
Coal Dragger
04-23-18, 23:58
Gun fire would bring it to an end.
I know, from first hand knowledge twice.
Maybe not apples to apples with your experience, but I can anecdotally confirm that in then one instance I was involved in, that accurate rifle fire does tend to be effective when you need to stop a vehicle.
I do like 308 rounds against cars more than 223 rounds :)
MountainRaven
04-24-18, 01:15
Breach-Bang-Clear article from summer last year about dealing with/surviving vehicle ramming attacks (VRAs): Link (http://www.breachbangclear.com/10-tips-for-surviving-a-terrorist-vehicle-attack/).
And one about how this isn't going to slow down or stop any time soon (even Israel isn't immune): Link (http://www.breachbangclear.com/vehicle-ramming-attacks/).
But realistically most of us won't have a SBR on us when this kind of thing happens. Better question is what handgun ammo will be useful post-windshield. I'm betting any US-made bonded JHP, like Speer Gold Dot for one example, but will defer to experts.
From the latter article:
Last, it is almost impossible to quickly stop a vehicle ramming attack. A jihadist in a big truck is basically sitting in a bullet-resistant weapon. It’s not bulletproof, but it’ll provide a lot of protection from pistols, which are the weapons most likely to show up first. Yes, counterterrorist cops in Europe have long guns and many American patrol officers have carbines in their cars, but the chances of someone having a long gun out and ready when a VRA occurs hover between zero and none. If the attack happens in free America, several citizens in the area will likely be armed with concealed pistols, but fire from a pistol against a fast-moving vehicle probably won’t work and could hit bystanders. If the attack happens in NY, California or Europe, I’d be willing to bet about seven million dollars that NOBODY will have a gun, and nobody with a gun will arrive until the attack has gone on for some time. Either way, the chances of Joe Regular Guy stopping the attack, armed or not, aren’t good.
Watch this video, taken the night of the attack in Nice, France. The attack begins at about 00:18.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCLtKPxYWYo
If you were armed, could you have stopped that truck? If so, how? You could stand directly in front of it and mag dump into the windshield in front of the driver — shooting at it as it passes will likely have no effect, especially since you’d be shooting upward through the door. But you’d have only seconds to recognize the threat, draw, engage and get the hell out of the way. What’s the likelihood you’d be able to do all that and get a round through the windshield at the right spot, and have that round not lose so much mass and velocity as it goes through the windshield that it becomes ineffective? Maybe that’s not a one-in-a-billion shot, and maybe your response is “So you’re saying there’s a chance,” but I don’t have any realistic expectation that a concealed carrier could take out a truck like that.
There's more to it than that. But I'm not sure a discussion about handgun ammunition selection to stop a VRA is going to be anything but academic.
Breach-Bang-Clear article from summer last year about dealing with/surviving vehicle ramming attacks (VRAs): Link (http://www.breachbangclear.com/10-tips-for-surviving-a-terrorist-vehicle-attack/).
And one about how this isn't going to slow down or stop any time soon (even Israel isn't immune): Link (http://www.breachbangclear.com/vehicle-ramming-attacks/).
From the latter article:
There's more to it than that. But I'm not sure a discussion about handgun ammunition selection to stop a VRA is going to be anything but academic.
but dude in the movies the guy stands in front shoots and the car swerve then flips then blows up :)
skywalkrNCSU
04-24-18, 13:06
Looks like the murderer was an incel 4channer, that crap is so toxic
What a piece of trash
Can someone explain to me in basic English what 4chan is, aside from being a forum. And why does it always come up in these conversations
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Diamondback
04-24-18, 14:24
Can someone explain to me in basic English what 4chan is, aside from being a forum. And why does it always come up in these conversations
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Violent, immature basement-dwellers who just happen to have a gift for ferreting information out of the unlikeliest places. A real Toxic Soup, especially in the Politics and Weapons sections, though Toys isn't much better. (I maintain part of the database for a Jurassic Park collectibles site, and while /toy/ has been a source of useful information, every time I've had to deal with them I've felt like I needed three showers afterward.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan
Wear your HazMat suits over there, folks!
I avoid Reddit and 4Chan like the plague unless there is a news topic/story that originated from there and I want the unhampered source.
Reddit is amazing with their AMAs (Celebrities and random peoples do: Ask Me Anythings and talk to people through that channel.)
But, beyond that, it's all basement fodder.
They, however, are some scary serious folks at times. Insult or comic the wrong internet-joe, and your doxxed and persec goes out the window.
I get noided enough on the Exchange here, using my name and address. Let alone saying the wrong thing and IP traced back to my ISP and my address, SSN, Cell#, employer, income, and my mother's first sacrificed child is listed because some dude gets scorn and spends hours tracking my info.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-24-18, 14:53
So the guy was a member of the Little Rascal's "He Man, Woman Haters" Club?
skywalkrNCSU
04-24-18, 14:58
I avoid Reddit and 4Chan like the plague unless there is a news topic/story that originated from there and I want the unhampered source.
Reddit is amazing with their AMAs (Celebrities and random peoples do: Ask Me Anythings and talk to people through that channel.)
But, beyond that, it's all basement fodder.
They, however, are some scary serious folks at times. Insult or comic the wrong internet-joe, and your doxxed and persec goes out the window.
I get noided enough on the Exchange here, using my name and address. Let alone saying the wrong thing and IP traced back to my ISP and my address, SSN, Cell#, employer, income, and my mother's first sacrificed child is listed because some dude gets scorn and spends hours tracking my info.
For all it’s faults Reddit has some really great communities that are not the main ones. I have gotten some fantastic advice there on topics like electrical work, plumbing, coding, data analysis, weight lifting, gym equipment, recipes, local community related things, etc.
I definitely ignore all the political, religious, and other heated topics but if you cater your subscriptions to quality subreddits for things your interested in it can be a pretty great website.
Incel = Involuntary Celebate, from what I read on Fox. In other words, he belongs to a club that can't get laid. LOL.
RetroRevolver77
04-24-18, 15:54
I avoid Reddit and 4Chan like the plague unless there is a news topic/story that originated from there and I want the unhampered source.
Reddit is amazing with their AMAs (Celebrities and random peoples do: Ask Me Anythings and talk to people through that channel.)
But, beyond that, it's all basement fodder.
They, however, are some scary serious folks at times. Insult or comic the wrong internet-joe, and your doxxed and persec goes out the window.
I get noided enough on the Exchange here, using my name and address. Let alone saying the wrong thing and IP traced back to my ISP and my address, SSN, Cell#, employer, income, and my mother's first sacrificed child is listed because some dude gets scorn and spends hours tracking my info.
Reddit is primarily leftist. 4Chan has both bad and good people on it. Read only is best for open forums like those.
skywalkrNCSU
04-24-18, 15:57
Incel = Involuntary Celebate, from what I read on Fox. In other words, he belongs to a club that can't get laid. LOL.
It’s not even just can’t get laid, it’s an incredibly toxic culture that basically thinks of women as evil sluts that spurn them and are constantly laughing behind their backs. An alarming number of them think they should be able to rape women who are not virgins and that they are owed the ability to get laid. Look up the Isla Vista killings, listen to that guy’s manifesto, he was a total incel and it gives you some insight into how they think. It’s one of the most toxic communities on the internet and quite the rabbit hole to go down.
Whoa, if that's the case, the creep is a total sicko.
RetroRevolver77
04-24-18, 16:08
Waiting to see what evidence pops up. Some websites are claiming the facebook post is false. Either way, hope they fry him.
BoringGuy45
04-24-18, 19:34
Reddit is primarily leftist. 4Chan has both bad and good people on it. Read only is best for open forums like those.
Reddit is good for interesting stories of non-political nature i.e. Worst wedding you've ever been to, nicest and meanest celebrities you've met, weirdest customer you've ever encountered in your job, etc. Of course, most of the worst people redditors seem to encounter in these stories are described as "extremely conservative" or "super religious." Usually this has no bearing on the story or why the person is a jerk, but such descriptions are used to emphasize the point that the person is particularly villainous and without redeeming quality. On that site, you'll never hear a jerk described as a "hard core communist" or "militant atheist".
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-25-18, 00:16
Well, that is off the front page fast.
On the Waffle House shooting, all I see is complaints that Trump hasn't praised the guy who stopped the shooting.
Well, that is off the front page fast.
On the Waffle House shooting, all I see is complaints that Trump hasn't praised the guy who stopped the shooting.
Coming up from the other side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTX6Q6_VFW8
What's pissing me off is event is now being used as a circle jerk among anti US, anti US LE, anti gun, etc, idiots with memes and such, etc being passed around now that mention how US cops would have shot him but the cool headed Canadian cop was better then that, yada, yada. Various articles saying same, for example:
Why Canadian police are so good at not shooting people
“Policing in Canada is not policing in America … the police in Canada use force with incredible infrequency,” said Joel Johnston, a veteran Vancouver Police officer and former use-of-force co-ordinator for the province of British Columbia.
A recent CBC analysis found that between 2000 and 2017, 461 people were killed as a result of interactions with police in Canada. Of those deaths, 70 per cent were caused by gunshots — or about 19 police shooting deaths per year.
In the United States by contrast, an average of 982 people per year have been shot and killed by police since 2015, according to The Washington Post. Even given the larger population, that’s a per capita rate of police shootings seven times higher than in Canada.
Canada’s far lower rate of gun crime certainly plays a role, but Johnston credits police training programs that prioritize de-escalation over confrontation. “(Canadian police) are trained to try and calm folks down,” he said.
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-canadian-police-are-so-good-at-not-shooting-people
What's pissing me off is event is now being used as a circle jerk among anti US, anti US LE, anti gun, etc, idiots with memes and such, etc being passed around now that mention how US cops would have shot him but the cool headed Canadian cop was better then that, yada, yada. Various articles saying same, for example:
Why Canadian police are so good at not shooting people
“Policing in Canada is not policing in America … the police in Canada use force with incredible infrequency,” said Joel Johnston, a veteran Vancouver Police officer and former use-of-force co-ordinator for the province of British Columbia.
A recent CBC analysis found that between 2000 and 2017, 461 people were killed as a result of interactions with police in Canada. Of those deaths, 70 per cent were caused by gunshots — or about 19 police shooting deaths per year.
In the United States by contrast, an average of 982 people per year have been shot and killed by police since 2015, according to The Washington Post. Even given the larger population, that’s a per capita rate of police shootings seven times higher than in Canada.
Canada’s far lower rate of gun crime certainly plays a role, but Johnston credits police training programs that prioritize de-escalation over confrontation. “(Canadian police) are trained to try and calm folks down,” he said.
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-canadian-police-are-so-good-at-not-shooting-people
I wonder how many street gangs Canada has? Or since most violent street gangs form in cities of over 200k residents... how many cities of over 200k does Canada have?
Canada has 25 cities with 200k or more residents. The US has 115.
I wonder how many street gangs Canada has? Or since most violent street gangs form in cities of over 200k residents... how many cities of over 200k does Canada have?Forget population. How many cities they have resembling Detroit, Newark DE, Baltimore or Chicago violence?
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What's pissing me off is event is now being used as a circle jerk among anti US, anti US LE, anti gun, etc, idiots with memes and such, etc being passed around now that mention how US cops would have shot him but the cool headed Canadian cop was better then that, yada, yada. Various articles saying same, for example:
Why Canadian police are so good at not shooting people
“Policing in Canada is not policing in America … the police in Canada use force with incredible infrequency,” said Joel Johnston, a veteran Vancouver Police officer and former use-of-force co-ordinator for the province of British Columbia.
A recent CBC analysis found that between 2000 and 2017, 461 people were killed as a result of interactions with police in Canada. Of those deaths, 70 per cent were caused by gunshots — or about 19 police shooting deaths per year.
In the United States by contrast, an average of 982 people per year have been shot and killed by police since 2015, according to The Washington Post. Even given the larger population, that’s a per capita rate of police shootings seven times higher than in Canada.
Canada’s far lower rate of gun crime certainly plays a role, but Johnston credits police training programs that prioritize de-escalation over confrontation. “(Canadian police) are trained to try and calm folks down,” he said.
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-canadian-police-are-so-good-at-not-shooting-people
Because this guy being alive is such a great thing?
Hes going to eat up resources, get out and kill more people.
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