Alfie Evans

[Dienekes]

I suspect that many people are following this tragic (outrageous? ) affair even though our MSM finds it beneath them. Sort of makes me wonder how many years we are behind Britain’s NHS—15-20?

Nietzsche, NOT exactly one of my heroes, once observed that “The State is a cold monster.” — He got that one right.

Dollars to doughnuts posting that on social media in the UK today would get you prosecuted...

[SeriousStudent]

His father was giving him mouth to mouth resuscitation in the hospital to help keep him alive.

I cannot begin to wrap my brain around that.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I saw that the Chinese have a new system where they have brownie (is that racist?) points for ‘good’, as in state approved, behavior. No points, crappy life.

We pretty much have that already here based on Progressive ideology, but it isn’t codified that strictly, yet. You can throw Trump supporters out of your bar in NYC. Wonder what would happen if you tried to throw a BLMer out....

We now have a more rigid caste system than India.

Rush talked about this today. What if the newly born 3rd in line to the thrown was in the same situation? You ever wonder why Hawking lived so much longer than others who had the same diagnosis? Although, I think he was stuffed and they just uploaded stuff to his voice synthesizer the past few years.

[JoshNC]

The child was brain dead with zero hope for recovery or any sort of life. He could not eat without being fed by ng tube or g tubecould not breath without the assistance of mechanical ventilation. That’s ICU care (expensive) with no end in sight other than his death. It’s a terrible situation and I empathize with his parents. That said, what is the ultimate outcome in keeping him alive and at what cost? Who pays for that? I believe if someone was willing to pick up the tab, the child should have been able to remain mechanically ventilated through a tracheotomy, fed through a g-tube. If the Italians were willing to pick up the tab for transport, the UK government should have allowed him to be transferred to an Italian hospital. Ultimately I would guess the family would decide to withdraw support at a later date when they could make a rational decision and see that their son was already gone with no hope of recovery.

As a surgeon I understand why the decision was made to withdraw support. As a human being and a father I understand his family’s conflict. My best friend passed away while awaiting a lung transplant at 22 years old. The decision was made to withdraw care because there was no hope of recovery. It’s a very terrible situation and my heart goes out to the family of this child.

[SeriousStudent]

I know, it's such a horrible situation. I just think of what the parents are going through, and my heart aches for them.

[26 Inf]

I know, it's such a horrible situation. I just think of what the parents are going through, and my heart aches for them.

It is a terrible enough ordeal to sit on the sidelines and watch as family members deal with these end of life decisions for their loved ones. I've recently lost two brothers-in-law where it was clear they were gone, but the family couldn't let go, it is heart rending.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The problem was is that he could breathe with out any mechanical ventilation. The docs thought he would expire quickly, then they decided to starve him. Then the staff, after a bunch of time goes by, decides to start giving sustenance. Guess the new docs were on or the nurses were starting to make noise.


For hours, Alfie continued to breathe unaided, with hospital staff refusing to help with either ventilation or hydration despite his coughing....
....About 2 a.m. Tuesday, Alder Hey hospital staff provided some hydration and oxygen support, his mother reported on Facebook.

So the docs cocked it up from one end to the other. The courts didn't make things better. Granted, some families just won't let go under any circumstances, but this was handled horribly.

[jmp45]

This is so deeply upsetting, it's state sponsored murder. It's monstrous. This is a perfect example of where socialized health care will go. So terrible what little Alf, parents and family are going through.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

The kid was going to die and he had no chance of getting better. That doesn't mean that you yank the plug and slap the parents around. It isn't so much murder as institutional indifference. That is scarier than murder. Someone trying to kill you can be stopped, how do you stop being 'abandoned'? That is the real scary part about all this govt run stuff.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Dollars to doughnuts posting that on social media in the UK today would get you prosecuted...


See below. From the Merseyside police facebook account.

Merseyside Police

Merseyside Police
21 hrs ·

We've issued the following statement following reports of social media posts being made in relation to Alder Hey Hospital and the ongoing situation with Alfie Evans:

Chief Inspector Chris Gibson said: “Merseyside Police has been made aware of a number of social media posts which have been made with reference to Alder Hey Hospital and the ongoing situation involving Alfie Evans.

“I would like to make people aware that these posts are being monitored and remind social media users that any offences including malicious communications and threatening behaviour will be investigated and where necessary will be acted upon.”

[26 Inf]

The kid was going to die and he had no chance of getting better. That doesn't mean that you yank the plug and slap the parents around. It isn't so much murder as institutional indifference. That is scarier than murder. Someone trying to kill you can be stopped, how do you stop being 'abandoned'? That is the real scary part about all this govt run stuff.

That is the problem with end of life care and our sense of morality.

There are different senses of what is right for the patient. In some cases there is not much thought of what is right for the patient because the parents/children are so overwhelmed they simply don't know what to do.

The news articles don't indicate what palliative measures were taken to ease the transition from life to death. They don't just yank the plug.

Sometimes families just need to let go and let God. Hard to do.

[Honu]

everyone dies its a matter of how and when

early on the parents wanted to bring the kid to another country but the gov refused that was the main issue

they denied the parents the right to choose what care and where so they did kill him by making him stay in the hospital and refusing any chance of help that he had early on by other doctors that said yeah we co do this there is a chance !

who knows if those other things would have worked but its a chance and worth trying if they wanted to

so the gov truly did kill the child by refusing early on
not with the current actions but the previous ones

much like we could learn with gun control the actions now are what is causing the end result to happen when we look back


but the typical gov of uk is on it

https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=51749&d=1524776341


forget the migrant rape gangs and grooming or all the crimes the immigrants are doing we are going after those who dare post on social media about us killing a baby

yeah uk is done, gone

51749

[TMS951]

The story is gut wrenching, I think of my toddler son while I read it and almost cry. But...

He was doomed, how long do you drag that out for?

This has to be paid for, it’s expensive. It has no clear end goal. Where do you stop?

And lastly the part that horrified my scares me the most is the fact the police come out and say saying anything bad about it online and you’ll be processcuted? This is a modern western ‘free’ country? Germany, England and Sweden do not seem so free anymore. Much of the EU is on their heels down the shitter. The fact that after the EU we’re next makes me so much more scared than socialized health care. Places like France you buy private insurance to subidize the gov one. We’ll have to do that here.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Interesting, they took away their guns and now they are warning people about making comments. Funny how that works.

[26 Inf]

And lastly the part that horrified my scares me the most is the fact the police come out and say saying anything bad about it online and you’ll be processcuted?

'I would like to make people aware that these posts are being monitored and remind social media users than any offenses including malicious communications and threatening behavior will be investigated and where necessary acted upon.'

I see that as more of a reminder that conveying threats over social media could be a criminal offense.

Malicious Communications Act 1988

1988 CHAPTER 27

An Act to make provision for the punishment of persons who send or deliver letters or other articles for the purpose of causing distress or anxiety.

[29th July 1988]

Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—

1 Offence of sending letters etc. with intent to cause distress or anxiety.

(1)Any person who sends to another person—

(a)a [F1letter, electronic communication or article of any description] which conveys—

(i)a message which is indecent or grossly offensive;

(ii)a threat; or

(iii)information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender; or

(b)any [F2article or electronic communication] which is, in whole or part, of an indecent or grossly offensive nature,

is guilty of an offence if his purpose, or one of his purposes, in sending it is that it should, so far as falling within paragraph (a) or (b) above, cause distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.

I've seen assertions that the act could be used to censor, but, you know, if you are threatening to kill someone, or harm their family, that goes beyond freedom of speech and right into the realm of terroristic threat.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

'I would like to make people aware that these posts are being monitored and remind social media users than any offenses including malicious communications and threatening behavior will be investigated and where necessary acted upon.'

I see that as more of a reminder that conveying threats over social media could be a criminal offense.

Malicious Communications Act 1988

1988 CHAPTER 27

An Act to make provision for the punishment of persons who send or deliver letters or other articles for the purpose of causing distress or anxiety.

[29th July 1988]

Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—

1 Offence of sending letters etc. with intent to cause distress or anxiety.

(1)Any person who sends to another person—

(a)a [F1letter, electronic communication or article of any description] which conveys—

(i)a message which is indecent or grossly offensive;

(ii)a threat; or

(iii)information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender; or

(b)any [F2article or electronic communication] which is, in whole or part, of an indecent or grossly offensive nature,

is guilty of an offence if his purpose, or one of his purposes, in sending it is that it should, so far as falling within paragraph (a) or (b) above, cause distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.

I've seen assertions that the act could be used to censor, but, you know, if you are threatening to kill someone, or harm their family, that goes beyond freedom of speech and right into the realm of terroristic threat.

If they wanted to say don’t physically threaten people they would have. That’s not what they did. But then again, you wouldn’t want to offend or cause anyone distress, or heaven forbid the anxiety.

What they are doing is reminding everyone that big brother is watching and don’t step out of line or you will be punished.

But please, continue justifying this behavior. Better yet, let’s bring it here ASAP, think of the children man.

[OH58D]

I have a European relative, native of Austria, but has been in Sweden for nearly 25 years. He was diagnosed with bone spur in his right heel. He has a year long wait for surgery and will be on pain meds until then. It's rationed health care and long waits are the norm. Of course he pays nothing out of pocket directly for the healthcare, but we know the money is acquired in another way.

[26 Inf]

If they wanted to say don’t physically threaten people they would have. That’s not what they did. But then again, you wouldn’t want to offend or cause anyone distress, or heaven forbid the anxiety.

What they are doing is reminding everyone that big brother is watching and don’t step out of line or you will be punished.

But please, continue justifying this behavior. Better yet, let’s bring it hear ASAP, think of the children man.

I don't think that the UK is my cup o tea, too many cameras.

But, nonetheless, I'd a lot rather remind folks and perhaps make them think a little before acting.

Same deal as you've seen time and time on this site, some get the message and some apparently think the mods are kidding.

[kwelz]

The child was brain dead with zero hope for recovery or any sort of life. He could not eat without being fed by ng tube or g tubecould not breath without the assistance of mechanical ventilation. That’s ICU care (expensive) with no end in sight other than his death. It’s a terrible situation and I empathize with his parents. That said, what is the ultimate outcome in keeping him alive and at what cost? Who pays for that? I believe if someone was willing to pick up the tab, the child should have been able to remain mechanically ventilated through a tracheotomy, fed through a g-tube. If the Italians were willing to pick up the tab for transport, the UK government should have allowed him to be transferred to an Italian hospital. Ultimately I would guess the family would decide to withdraw support at a later date when they could make a rational decision and see that their son was already gone with no hope of recovery.

As a surgeon I understand why the decision was made to withdraw support. As a human being and a father I understand his family’s conflict. My best friend passed away while awaiting a lung transplant at 22 years old. The decision was made to withdraw care because there was no hope of recovery. It’s a very terrible situation and my heart goes out to the family of this child.

I think this is what most people are ignoring (in many cases intentionally).

If the Family was willing to pick up the bill I think I would have no problem with him being left on life support. However the cold hard fact is that we are no longer talking about a human being in anything except the physical sense. He is braindead. Yes that is a cold hard thing to say but it is also an indisputable fact. His brain has literally deteriorate on a physical level. A nurse friend of mine equated it to pouring acetone on packing peanuts.

People want to make this about big evil government wanting to kill a child or not pay to keep him alive. But in this particular case it really doesn't apply. There is nothing left to keep alive and the parents are only dragging out their own suffering.

[SomeOtherGuy]

I think this is what most people are ignoring (in many cases intentionally).

If the Family was willing to pick up the bill I think I would have no problem with him being left on life support.

Except Italy conferred citizenship on him, agreed to pay all his expenses at an Italian hospital, and had their own medevac plane ready to pick him up. The UK would not be out any money whatsoever. They are doing this because they want to show all the little people who's boss.

https://www.thelocal.it/20180425/italy-cannot-fly-alfie-evans-to-rome-for-further-treatment-court-rules


The Bambino Gesu (Baby Jesus) paediatric hospital in Rome, which is administered by the Vatican, has said a specially-equipped plane from the Italian defence ministry is on standby to fly to Britain to pick up the boy if he is released.

I am well aware that the boy is very sick and no level of treatment was likely to save him. And I'm not advocating for the UK government to pay without limit. But I see no moral justification for preventing the parents from taking him elsewhere where he would get new treatment.

[Dienekes]

Alfie’s gone...

https://nypost.com/2018/04/28/terminally-ill-child-alfie-evans-dies-in-after-doctors-remove-life-support/

“Everything in the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”

[Averageman]

Apparently a Priest confronted some Doctors on the ward and chastised them. He reminded them that God is watching their ever move.
He was promptly removed from the facility.