Pistol Reloaders: How many use a 3 die set, how many a 4?

[Uni-Vibe]

I'm just curious: I've always used a 4 die set for handgun cartridges

(single stage press)

1. Size and decap
2. Flare and prime
3. Seat the bullet
4. Crimp

A 3 die set combines (3) and (4). I never trusted this because I thought it'd be more consistent to do it in two separate operations, and it doesn't take that much more time.

Plus, with four dies, you leave the seater and crimper set up, so you don't have to re-set the seater plug every time if you use a 3 die set to do (3) and (4) separately.


What do y'all think?

[nate89]

I use the dillon set on my 650. Seating and crimping, in my experience, is vastly superior, especially with coated lead bullets. I completely eliminated scraping through coatings and plating by seating and crimping separate. On a progressive machine there is really no reason not to. If you are using a single stage or turret you do add time, but if you are bulk loading pistol rounds single stage, then speed is probably not your goal anyway.

[sagecarbina]

Will I be using brass that has only been fired in my gun?
Will I be using brass from a variety of sources that has been fired in a number of different guns?
Will I be loading the same cartridges for use in more than one gun?
Am I willing to lube my cases to save a little money on the dies or would I rather not have to lube cases?

Lee Precision offers a full line of Pistol Reloading Dies to satisfy most reloading needs.

To avoid lubing your cases choose a set that includes a Carbide Sizing Die. Carbide dies are simply the best way to resize straight walled handgun cartridges since no case lubing is required.

Lee Precision`s Standard Three Die Set works fine when using brass that has only been fired in your gun. However, more attention is required when adjusting the bullet seat and crimp die since bullet seating and crimping occur in a single operation.

Select Lee Precision`s 4 Die-Deluxe Pistol Die Set (shown above right) when using mixed range brass, brass that was fired in other guns or loading cartridges for use in a number of different guns. The Deluxe Set includes a Carbide Factory Crimp Die which separates the bullet seating operation from the crimping operation. It makes setup much easier and the die has the added feature of a carbide resizer that does a finishing sizing pass on the completed round. This final sizing guarantees that any case that passes through the die will freely and reliably chamber in any gun.

[Krazykarl]

Yes,

4 dies is the way to go. I use carbide Dillon and RCBS 3 die sets. The common ground is all of them are completed with Lee crimp die. Best one I have used...

Karl

[Uni-Vibe]

Yes,

4 dies is the way to go. I use carbide Dillon and RCBS 3 die sets. The common ground is all of them are completed with Lee crimp die. Best one I have used...

Karl

What makes the Lee better than just getting another crimper die from RCBS?

[GT1]

All my pistol dies are the Lee 4 die sets. I could spend twice the money or more and the ammo turned out would be the same. The Lee FCD is used and set to light taper crimp(just enough to remove any flare/bell). The regular taper crimp only die requires all brass to be trimmed the same length to get the same taper crimp on each round. I don't know if other brands are like that but since so many use the FCD with other brands of die sets I assumed that was the case. I have no experience with other dies and the Lees work great in my 650.

[Krazykarl]

What makes the Lee better than just getting another crimper die from RCBS?

I like the Lee crimp die for three reasons:
1. Affordable. 10 to 20$ less than Redding
2. You can visualize the Lee crimp jaws work their magic. Makes set up easier.
3. The lee jaws are strong enough to make their own cannelure if you want to crimp on a different part of bullet that has cannelure location that doesn't agree with your OAL.

[sidewaysil80]

I use the three die Lee set. Once I got it dialed in and marked the dies its been very consistent in both crimp and seating. When I upgrade to a progressive some day I’ll get the 4 die set, but for now there is no reason at all.

[gaijin]

I seat and crimp in separate operations.

[Uni-Vibe]

I seat and crimp in separate operations.


I just loaded 100 pistol rounds. Took me less than 10 minutes extra time to do it this way. I've always done it.

[Coal Dragger]

I reload on a Dillon XL650, 4 die sets for me.

I will never voluntarily run a 3 die set again.

[sidewaysil80]

I reload on a Dillon XL650, 4 die sets for me.

I will never voluntarily run a 3 die set again.

Whats the biggest issue you have with them? I'm still new to reloading but my crimps and seating with the single die where able to get the specs I wanted. Am I one of the lucky ones (mainly sticking to standard 9mm crimp/coal) or is there something I'm missing?

[Coal Dragger]

Crimping while bullet seating is more time consuming to set on the die, and will never render as nice and consistent a crimp as doing it separately. The biggest issue I have is that on bullets with no cannelure you end up shaving bullet material as the crimp is applied, because the bullet is still being pushed down at the same time.

You have better control running seating and crimping in separate steps. Fortunately the Dillon and other progressive presses allow this, and in fact cost no extra time at all. You get better ammo, and a lot more of it, in less time.

[Tigereye]

4 dies on a Dillon 550.

[sidewaysil80]

Crimping while bullet seating is more time consuming to set on the die, and will never render as nice and consistent a crimp as doing it separately. The biggest issue I have is that on bullets with no cannelure you end up shaving bullet material as the crimp is applied, because the bullet is still being pushed down at the same time.

You have better control running seating and crimping in separate steps. Fortunately the Dillon and other progressive presses allow this, and in fact cost no extra time at all. You get better ammo, and a lot more of it, in less time.
Awesome, thanks for the insight!

[markm]

I've never tried combining seat and crimp for the same reason I've never tried being gay. It's completely insane at face value. No need to even try it to figure out it's WRONG!

[Coal Dragger]

LOL.

Well now you’ve gone and done it markm, the LGBTQ community is going be protesting outside your house. Standby for a bunch of fabulously dressed men, and lumberjack looking women in Subaru’s to picket your driveway.

[MWAG19919]

I load on my 650 using Dillon’s 4 die set. I used 4 dies when I loaded single stage too. I find it easier to adjust the dies when I separate seating & crimping into two steps.

[Bret]

I load on my single stage press and Dillon 650 using 4 die sets. A regular taper crimp die works perfectly. If you have to set the Lee FCD beyond just removing the remaining flare from the belling step, then you’re doing something wrong as it shouldn’t be necessary to post size the entire cartridge. Also, I never have to trim my cases to get the taper crimp die to work the same on all cartridges, but I do keep my brass sorted by lot and number of times fired. Keeping them sorted this way results in more consistently.

[TomPenguin5145]

I load 9mm. Most of 124 Berry's RN and Hornady 115 XTPs. Both over TiteGroup. I use a 3 die set. No extra crimp die.

[Bimmer]

I use only three dies for pistol rounds.

Until I read this thread, it never even occurred to me that anything else was possible (just like it never occurred to me to try being gay).


I've never tried combining seat and crimp for the same reason I've never tried being gay...


Seriously, it works well (3 dies, not gay sex). I've cranked out tens of thousands of rounds of .40S&W, .380ACP, and .30Carbine without incident.

[shadowrider]

I use 4 die sets, especially with plated bullets.

[TomPenguin5145]

For me, personally, I think the type or amount of crimp is the last thing affecting my accuracy with a pistol. :-P

[Bret]

Tom, roll crimping and taper crimping is more about reliability, but doing either wrong can impact accuracy. Roll crimping revolver cartridges prevents the bullets from moving forward in the cylinder due to recoil when another cartridge is fired. Without a roll crimp, heavy recoil can cause a bullet to move so far forward that it prevents the cylinder from firing. The roll crimp also has the added benefit with slower burning powders of ensuring that more consistent pressures are reached before the bullet begins moving.

Taper crimps are used when reloading semiauto cartridges. The term taper crimp is really a misnomer because it's not really a crimp at all as it doesn't help hold the bullet in place. The point of taper crimping a cartridge is simply to remove the remaining flare that's left from the belling step. If this remaining flare is not removed, then feed reliability problems can result. Also, in extreme cases, headspace can also be impacted since semiauto pistol cartridges in theory headspace on the case mouth (reality is that they often headspace on the extractor, but that's another story). The amount of taper crimp that needs to be applied is simply enough to remove the remaining flare. Not enough and the remaining flare can cause feed reliability problems. Too much and you're just crushing the cartridge which can decrease the diameter of the bullet and actually decrease the tension between the bullet and case. You can't apply extra taper crimp in order to help hold a bullet in place. If you read or someone tells to you apply a "light" or "heavy" taper crimp, then they don't know what they're talking about. The correct amount is just enough to remove the remaining flare, that's it. Reloaders of semiauto pistol cartridges sometimes make a mistake when having problems with bullet setback. Bullet setback happens the bullet is pushed back in to the case during the process of the cartridge feeding in to the chamber. They sometimes incorrectly think that adding more taper crimp will solve their problem. Reality is that their problem is due to the case wall and bullet not having enough tension between them. Either the case isn't being sized down enough or the bullet diameter is not enough or a combination of the two. The correct solution is to size the cases down more (which often requires getting a new sizing die or fixing the one in question) or getting bullets that have a slightly larger diameter (if they're actually undersized).

All this to say that while we can take crimping of pistol cartridges for granted when it comes to accuracy, it's still important when it comes to reliability.

[Uni-Vibe]

Bret is dead right.

[gaijin]

^^Absolutely.