View Full Version : Zeroed my new Colt SOCOM barreled upper...
Hammer_Man
04-27-18, 23:52
I recently put together a new rifle using a Noveske N4 receiver set, Colt SOCOM barrel, Colt barrel nut, Colt Delta ring assembly, Knights RAS II hand guard, Matech rear sight, and Surefire SF3P flash hider. When I zeroed my new toy this evening, I found I had to adjust my windage almost all the way to the right to bring my groups into the middle of my target. All my other ARs seem to be just a few clicks away from center.
When I asembled the upper, I had to torque the barrel nut to appx. 70 ft. lbs to get it to time properly, and torque the flash hider to 30 ft lbs to get it to time properly. Both of those torque values are a bit higher than I'm comfortable with, could these high torque values be causing a noticable windage shift in comparison to my other ARs? Could I have gotten a barrel that is on the edge of allowed tolerances? I know it should all be well and good, because at the end of the day I was able to get my groups in the middle of my target. I just can't help but wonder if I did something wrong during assembly, or if my barrel or receiver could be out of spec somehow. Should I just shoot the crap out of it and stop worrying? Any insight would be appreciated.
sidewaysil80
04-28-18, 07:19
Call Colt. I had a CCU that required me to max out windage adjustment in order to center my groups. They took it back, concurred something was wrong, and rebarreled it. Be prepared for a four month wait though...
Hammer_Man
04-28-18, 07:31
Call Colt. I had a CCU that required me to max out windage adjustment in order to center my groups. They took it back, concurred something was wrong, and rebarreled it. Be prepared for a four month wait though...
I'm glad to hear they took care of it for you. I'll call Colt, and Arms Unlimited Monday morning and see if they'll extend to me the same courtesy.
Bob Sacamano
04-28-18, 08:02
Good reason to assemble upper, then send it out to have the FSB ALLIGNED with rear sight, then pinned.
If there was some wiggle room between the alignment pin and receiver, you could try to remove barrel nut and re-install while favoring a side (left?). Could not hurt to have a super reaction rod handy to hold it all in place while tightening the barrel nut.
Hammer_Man
04-28-18, 08:11
Good reason to assemble upper, then send it out to have the FSB ALLIGNED with rear sight, then pinned.
If there was some wiggle room between the alignment pin and receiver, you could try to remove barrel nut and re-install while favoring a side (left?). Could not hurt to have a super reaction rod handy to hold it all in place while tightening the barrel nut.
The upper receiver to barrel fit is very tight, which is why i like Noveske receivers. I don't think re-aligning the front sight base is possible, because it was drilled and pinned from the factory.
Call Colt. I had a CCU that required me to max out windage adjustment in order to center my groups. They took it back, concurred something was wrong, and rebarreled it. Be prepared for a four month wait though...
This is not a Colt assembled upper, I don't believe Colt will be much help.
Hammer_Man
05-02-18, 17:16
Just an update. I contacted Arms Unlimited about my barrel, and they told me to contact Colt, as the barrel is under warranty. I spoke to a Colt customer service representative yesterday, and he advised me to send it in for inspection. I was provided with an RMA for shipping, and I hope have everything sent off this weekend, when I have time to make it to the post office. I will update this thread as things progress.
sidewaysil80
05-02-18, 17:55
It will take forever unfortunately, but at least they are helping you out.
My money is on the Upper being wonky. I don't put much faith in Noveske's current offerings... And even when they were good, they weren't worth their high price in my opinion. The torque values are nothing. I've broken colt nuts loose that had to have been above that.
Hammer_Man
05-03-18, 00:00
My money is on the Upper being wonky. I don't put much faith in Noveske's current offerings... And even when they were good, they weren't worth their high price in my opinion. The torque values are nothing. I've broken colt nuts loose that had to have been above that.
That would be what I'm afraid of most. I hope it doesn't come to that, as I don't want to deal with the headache of getting a receiver warrantied. I know they would probably replace it if it was faulty, but that would mean having to make more phone calls, and more trips to the post office, etc.. In a way all this run around makes me want to give up building ARs all together. I really enjoy the building process, but none of the local stores stock good parts, so that means I have to mail order everything. Unfortunately when something goes wrong, I can't just drive to the store and exchange something. Instead I need to make phone calls/emails, and wait on shipping/turn around times, etc..
I have 5x Noveske uppers(4x Gen1,1x VLTOR) and I've never had a single problem with any of them. I also sold a Chainsaw Gen 1 and it was in spec as well. This sounds like more or less an assembly problem. Was the FSB removed and then re-installed?
My money is on the Upper being wonky. I don't put much faith in Noveske's current offerings... And even when they were good, they weren't worth their high price in my opinion. The torque values are nothing. I've broken colt nuts loose that had to have been above that.
Agree.
C4
Hammer_Man
05-03-18, 22:09
I have 5x Noveske uppers(4x Gen1,1x VLTOR) and I've never had a single problem with any of them. I also sold a Chainsaw Gen 1 and it was in spec as well. This sounds like more or less an assembly problem. Was the FSB removed and then re-installed?
I never touched the FSB. This build is your basic M4 carbine style build. The barrel as it came shipped, already had the barrel nut installed. All I had to do before mating it to my receiver was install a delta ring, weld spring, and circlip.
Wolfpack45
05-04-18, 09:33
My money is also on the receiver, unless the FSB is canted.... I have had both of these things cause that issue. A canted FSB though is normally pretty obvious when you take a close look at everything. So if it looks straight I'd go to noveske with the receiver.
I would be tempted to remove, then reinstall the barrel. A few degrees of cant on the FSB will yield a considerable number of clicks windage on the rear sight.
I recently put together a new rifle using a Noveske N4 receiver set, Colt SOCOM barrel, Colt barrel nut, Colt Delta ring assembly, Knights RAS II hand guard, Matech rear sight, and Surefire SF3P flash hider. When I zeroed my new toy this evening, I found I had to adjust my windage almost all the way to the right to bring my groups into the middle of my target. All my other ARs seem to be just a few clicks away from center.
When I asembled the upper, I had to torque the barrel nut to appx. 70 ft. lbs to get it to time properly, and torque the flash hider to 30 ft lbs to get it to time properly. Both of those torque values are a bit higher than I'm comfortable with, could these high torque values be causing a noticable windage shift in comparison to my other ARs? Could I have gotten a barrel that is on the edge of allowed tolerances? I know it should all be well and good, because at the end of the day I was able to get my groups in the middle of my target. I just can't help but wonder if I did something wrong during assembly, or if my barrel or receiver could be out of spec somehow. Should I just shoot the crap out of it and stop worrying? Any insight would be appreciated.
Having to crank the barrel nut can certainly create issues. Either that or the upper is a bit gonky.
Either way, I'm going to doubt it is the barrel, though obviously odd things happen sometimes. Keep us updated please.
I would be tempted to remove, then reinstall the barrel. A few degrees of cant on the FSB will yield a considerable number of clicks windage on the rear sight.
Personally, I would regrease the barrel nut and reinstall it while making sure the index pin was a tight fit. It is wasn't, I would be peening or coming up with something to alleviate the issue.
Hammer_Man
05-05-18, 21:29
It's too late to try anything, as I shipped my upper receiver off to Colt this morning. According to the Fed Ex guy it should arrive there Friday next week... Till then I'm going to assemble another rifle from spare parts. Hopefully this one doesn't give me too many problems. I will update this thread as soon as I hear back from Colt.
Hopefully Colt moves quickly on this. Please keep us updated.
I know it may take awhile, but please post follow up. My bet is the FSB wasn’t properly indexed.
Rifleman_04
05-11-18, 22:50
Just out of curiosity, what were you using for the install? Reaction Rod, BEV or a clam shell type receiver block?
Hammer_Man
05-11-18, 23:40
Just out of curiosity, what were you using for the install? Reaction Rod, BEV or a clam shell type receiver block?
I used a DPMS upper receiver fixture, as that is what Mega recommends in their instructions for their Maten uppers. I had a clamshell style fixture years ago, but I found it was rather flimsy. I may invest in a reaction rod in the future, but I'm kind of done building rifles for a while.
I've used a clamshell for years never found it to be an issue that caused sights to be out of whack. Same for using barrel blocks when installing and removing muzzle devices. Any time they were skewed, it was due to the pinned fsb, or oos upper.
Rifleman_04
05-22-18, 22:19
Ive also had no issue with the clam shell type but the reason I brought that up is I have seen the reaction rod type twist the upper especially if they require more torque to get the barrel nut and gas tube hole aligned. From the few I have looked at it appears to put too much pressure on the indexing pin and either stretches the slot on the upper or twists the upper at the threads and causes the sights to zero to the extreme right.
Hammer_Man
06-16-18, 01:08
I got my upper back from Colt today, and as far as I can tell the front sight was canted. I unpacked my upper from the box they sent it in, and found an invoice which simply stated front sight canted. No other notes or explanation was provided. I called Colt customer service for more details, as I wanted to know if they adjusted the front sight base, or replaced the barrel assembly. The phone rep stated that he could not address my questions, as they do not have a way to track the gunsmiths notes electronically. To get an answer, he would have to walk back to the shop and ask in person. However, he stated he couldn't do that at the moment, as he was the only person answering phones at the time. He offered to talk to the gunsmiths Monday morning before his shift, and call me back once he found out anything. So as far as I can tell it was a canted from sight base, but as to what was done to fix it, I don't know.
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