DD RIS/ RIS II Rails....

[Razorhunter]

Ok guys,
After viewing many of gotm4's pics, I can't stand it any longer, and I must have a DD RIS II rail (well I GUESS that's what they are called). Considering I've not really been following the DD line too closely, and I only have experience with their regular LITE rails, I need to get a few things cleared up, and fully educate myself on this new line (or LINES?) of rails.
Here's what I'm trying to figure out, and here are my questions:


1. Just how many different "RIS" or "RIS II" designs are there? (I am not asking about all the different lengths, but how many different MODELS are there? I know gotm4 has a "Mk18", and I know I've seen something like an "M4A1" model or something?????

3. How many LENGTHS are available in each? SO, just in regards to the Mk18 rail for example, does it come in a Carbine length (7"), Midlength (9"), and Rifle (unsure of exact number) ??? How about an "MRE" or actually, what DD refers to as an "FSP" design, which has the POCKET for the FSB???

I'm just trying to figure out HOW MANY different new "RIS" models are out, and how many different lengths, and designs there are of each model.
You get the point guys.

One upper that I have being delivered today, is a new 16" BCM Midlength upper, and I'm trying to decide how many different rails will be available for me to choose from. I MIGHT leave the FSB on this one, but then I also might change to a low-pro gas block. However, this all depends on what exact models and/or lengths/designs are available here.
I really like the "RIS" or "RIS II" lineup MUCH better than the standard LITE rails. They look SO much better, and the removeable bottom rail is pretty sweet too.
I seriously HOPE DD will be able to offer ALL of these rails to us, and most importantly, IN BLACK finishes!!! I can't believe they haven't done so already. (Or maybe they have???)


One other thing guys. Does anyone know where I can get online and actually VIEW some, if not ALL of these rails on a webpage? I am about to check the DD site again, but I'm pretty sure I keep reading that DD still hasn't got them on their website. Hopefully that will change soon. Anyhow, I was just hoping some dealer might have some, or all of them listed? (guessing no one would have ALL, but somebody might have SOME of them listed and pictured?) How about Rainier Arms? They are usually pretty good about showing all the rails. BCM is too, but I'm not even sure if they have these rails do they??
Anyhow, thanks so much guys.

[JohnN]

Ok guys,
After viewing many of gotm4's pics, I can't stand it any longer, and I must have a DD RIS II rail (well I GUESS that's what they are called). Considering I've not really been following the DD line too closely, and I only have experience with their regular LITE rails, I need to get a few things cleared up, and fully educate myself on this new line (or LINES?) of rails.
Here's what I'm trying to figure out, and here are my questions:


1. Just how many different "RIS" or "RIS II" designs are there? (I am not asking about all the different lengths, but how many different MODELS are there? I know gotm4 has a "Mk18", and I know I've seen something like an "M4A1" model or something?????

3. How many LENGTHS are available in each? SO, just in regards to the Mk18 rail for example, does it come in a Carbine length (7"), Midlength (9"), and Rifle (unsure of exact number) ??? How about an "MRE" or actually, what DD refers to as an "FSP" design, which has the POCKET for the FSB???

I'm just trying to figure out HOW MANY different new "RIS" models are out, and how many different lengths, and designs there are of each model.
You get the point guys.

One upper that I have being delivered today, is a new 16" BCM Midlength upper, and I'm trying to decide how many different rails will be available for me to choose from. I MIGHT leave the FSB on this one, but then I also might change to a low-pro gas block. However, this all depends on what exact models and/or lengths/designs are available here.
I really like the "RIS" or "RIS II" lineup MUCH better than the standard LITE rails. They look SO much better, and the removeable bottom rail is pretty sweet too.
I seriously HOPE DD will be able to offer ALL of these rails to us, and most importantly, IN BLACK finishes!!! I can't believe they haven't done so already. (Or maybe they have???)


One other thing guys. Does anyone know where I can get online and actually VIEW some, if not ALL of these rails on a webpage? I am about to check the DD site again, but I'm pretty sure I keep reading that DD still hasn't got them on their website. Hopefully that will change soon. Anyhow, I was just hoping some dealer might have some, or all of them listed? (guessing no one would have ALL, but somebody might have SOME of them listed and pictured?) How about Rainier Arms? They are usually pretty good about showing all the rails. BCM is too, but I'm not even sure if they have these rails do they??
Anyhow, thanks so much guys.

Try this http://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/browse&category=railsystems_risii:railinterfacesystem

[Razorhunter]

Thanks,
I did not know they were listed on the site.

I thought I had heard that ALL of their new RIS/RIS II models were NOT listed on the site, so I'm wondering if there are any others not listed?
I sure wish they made all sizes in the Mk18, (and the M4A1 as well).

Does the 9.5" length of the Mk18 RIS mean it WILL NOT work on a midlength upper with standard FSB??
Additionally, IF I were to install the MK18 rail onto a regular Midlength upper, and IF I were to use a low pro gas block, would the rail COMPLETELY COVER the gas block, OR would it only cover it by 1/2"???
I'm trying to decide what exact length rail is needed for the following:

1. What size rail is needed for a midlength upper if still using the standard
FSB?? (Is the answer 9" long????)

2. What size rail does it take to just cover the gas block on the same midlength upper (with low pro gas block instead) ???? (Does it take a full 10" rail or will the 9.5" Mk18 cover the GB????)

[spamsammich]

The Mk18 RIS II was meant to go over a carbine length gas system with a low profile gas block so no, it won't work with a standard FSB middy.

You need a 9" rail for a standard FSB middy. A 10" or 11" rail covers a low profile middy gas block, depending on which GB you use. I believe an Vltor would need a 10" whereas a DD low pro or a shaved FSB requires 11" rails.

[Stickman]

Thanks,
I did not know they were listed on the site.

I thought I had heard that ALL of their new RIS/RIS II models were NOT listed on the site, so I'm wondering if there are any others not listed?
I sure wish they made all sizes in the Mk18, (and the M4A1 as well).



There are 4 different DD RIS II rails that I am aware of that have NSNs, the below picture shows 3 of them, with the fourth being a DD M4 RIS II rail with a FSP cutout.


http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Daniel%20Defense%20II/IMG_0545%201028%20WEVO.jpg

[Stickman]

Below is a thread that I wrote up which gives a history of the Daniel Defense RIS II, you might find it interesting, and it has more pictures.


http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241

[Razorhunter]

Thanks for the info Stick, and I'm glad you mentioned the M4A1 RIS with FSP cutout, because that one is not listed on the DD site.
Thanks for the pics above too. In regards to the THREE rails posted above, here are my findings:

TOP RAIL shown above is the M4A1 of course, which IS listed on the DD site, and I know the specs on it.

BOTTOM RAIL shown above is the Mk18 of course, which IS also on the DD site, and I know all about it's specs too.

MIDDLE RAIL shown above : THIS one however, is a mystery rail to me, and I don't know that I have ever seen it? I only knew of the M4A1 and the Mk18 (and the other M4A1 w/ FSP cutout) What is THIS middle pic'd rail up above, and how does it differ from the Mk18 and the M4A1/M4A1FSP?????


Thanks Stick. I will check your link out when I return later this evening.

[lindertw]

...MIDDLE RAIL shown above : THIS one however, is a mystery rail to me, and I don't know that I have ever seen it? I only knew of the M4A1 and the Mk18 (and the other M4A1 w/ FSP cutout) What is THIS middle pic'd rail up above, and how does it differ from the Mk18 and the M4A1/M4A1FSP?????

info taken from the manual that came with my RIS II M4A1 FSP:

RIS II M4A1 (NSN 1005-01-547-2624)
12.57" long, 2.232" wide, 16.2oz

RIS II GL/SSC (NSN 1005-01-548-1381)
11.79" long, 2.232" wide, 15.5oz

RIS II MK18 (NSN 1005-01-548-1385)
9.58" long, 2.232" wide, 14.5oz

[Stickman]

Thanks for the info Stick, and I'm glad you mentioned the M4A1 RIS with FSP cutout, because that one is not listed on the DD site.


Its similar to the below model, but the one shown is one of the early prototypes. Current ones have screw heads that are countersunk.

http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Daniel%20Defense%2C%20Inc./RIS-II-black%20Stick.jpg

[Razorhunter]

info taken from the manual that came with my RIS II M4A1 FSP:

RIS II M4A1 (NSN 1005-01-547-2624)
12.57" long, 2.232" wide, 16.2oz

RIS II GL/SSC (NSN 1005-01-548-1381)
11.79" long, 2.232" wide, 15.5oz

RIS II MK18 (NSN 1005-01-548-1385)
9.58" long, 2.232" wide, 14.5oz


Sweet. Thanks for the info guys. Especially the pics Stick, and the lengths you posted above lindertw.
I have heard that the DD MK18 rail was made for the Mk18 CQB rifle, but I wonder what the other two rails were made for? I mean, I wonder HOW? or WHY? DD came up with 11.79" and 12.57" lengths??? What are the M4A1 and GL/SSC rails made for specifically? Anyone know what GL/SSC stands for?
Interesting info.
I sure wish they made that Mk18 rail in a straight up standard MIDLENGTH, (to fit behind a middy's standard FSB), and also in an extended midlength version of about 10", to just cover the gas block on a middy.. (basically exactly what VLTOR does with their VIS rails now...).
DD has got to know that these would sell like hot cakes in the Mk18 configuration of course. I just LOVE that removeable bottom rail. That's what's so sweet about the KAC URX II rails...
Thanks guys.

[CPTI]

I just picked up an M4A1 RIS II (12.5") and it is awesome. Mine did not come with a manual; any digital versions available?

I'm not particularly concerned with installation as I've installed DD Lites, but it'd be interesting to know how to mount a 203 on this thing.

I'm throwing it over a Noveske Afghan (14.5) barrel with either an AAC or Vortex and Once I get it assembled I'll throw up some pics.

Mike

[Razorhunter]

BTW,
Forgot to mention...
Good Gosh. What in the hell was DD thinking with those insanely oversized slotted screws Stick???
If that is yours, then have you even considered replacing them with flush screws? (I'd use allen head or torx personally), but maybe you are just wanting to keep it in it's original "Prototype" configuration perhaps????

[lindertw]

...Anyone know what GL/SSC stands for?

dunno about GL, but SSC = Sound Suppressor Capable (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=132685&postcount=4).

Hope this helps...

[beavo451]

dunno about GL, but SSC = Sound Suppressor Capable (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=132685&postcount=4).

Hope this helps...

I would ventrue to guess GL stands for Grenade Launcher.

[Stickman]

I have heard that the DD MK18 rail was made for the Mk18 CQB rifle, but I wonder what the other two rails were made for?



The M4A1 RIS II rail was the result of the SOCOM RIS II rail trials, the MK18 was at the direct request of SOCOM. The other rails in the RIS II family were also done at the request of military units.

[Stickman]

BTW,
Forgot to mention...
Good Gosh. What in the hell was DD thinking with those insanely oversized slotted screws Stick???
If that is yours, then have you even considered replacing them with flush screws? (I'd use allen head or torx personally), but maybe you are just wanting to keep it in it's original "Prototype" configuration perhaps????



I love the slotted oversize screws. For LE work, they make no difference, and enable me to drop the back of a knife blade, quarter, or similar object in to drop the lower rail section. Its probably even quicker than pulling standard handguards off for care and maintenance.

There aren't many of them floating around, and yes, I plan on keeping it in its OEM status.

On a side note, that upper is being used by a fellow LEO while he waits for his. He loves it.

[Razorhunter]

Cool and I gotcha. I certainly wasn't bagging on it, but those screws do look quite large!
Anyhow, does anyone know where the RIS II rails are in stock?
Better yet, has ANYONE ever seen a RIS II rail done in a regular BLACK FINISH from the DD factory, as other rails are? (aside from Stick's prototype above of course)
I'm really wanting a Mk18 in black, and possibly one of the other RIS II rails in black as well.
Definitely need black though. I think that rather unique version of "FDE" looks kind of interesting, but it just doesn't match and it's just not for me. It's more of a burgundy/brownish/bronzish color to me.
I think it's been said that DD will do them in black, but I just thought I'd put up a prayer of a hell mary to see if there might POSSIBLY be any of these rails in stock anywhere in BLACK???
Aside from black, I guess I would also be interested in knowing if they were in stock anywhere in the regular FDE color as well??? Again, I'm really looking for the Mk18 at this time.
Is DD the only place to get these rails right now??? Anyone know of any dealer that has actually stocked them??

[Stickman]

I believe Grant usually stocks the DD MK18 RIS II, as does Rainier Arms. I'm not sure that Daniel Defense has any that are contract overruns right now, and the ones they have released before were in pretty limited quantities.



MK18 clone

http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Daniel%20Defense%20II/IMG_1919%201028%20WEVO.jpg

[Razorhunter]

Ooh,
That Mk18 clone is tight bro. Is that the stock Aimpoint mount, that they use?
I have always wondered the exact differences between the LMT Mk18 (which uses a 10.5" bbl I believe), and the Colt Mk18's, which use a 10.3" bbl (or so I've heard).
Is there any difference between these two weapons in the military??

I also wonder why they are requesting the SOCOM FDE color all of the sudden?? I mean, the mil guys usually spray paint their guns with something a little closer to a DESERT TAN anyhow. I wonder IF the military actually requested that Socom FDE, or if DD just threw it at them??

BTW,
I really enjoyed reading your DD RIS II rail writeup on your site Stick. That was sweet. As always, the pics are the bomb, and we do appreciate them.
I've got to find myself a Mk18 in BLACK...

[Stickman]

The FDE color was the requirement of the military. I'm glad you liked the writeup, it kept me off the street and out of the gutter for a night or two while I wrote it. :D

I'm not sure on the other MK18 questions, I believe different units will be setting them up in various ways, but I'm honestly not all that sure. I've been told that a lot of different units are getting MK18s that have previously carried M4s, so that may account for differentiation and lack of commonality in setup.



Good luck on the MK18 rail in black, but if you start to get desperate, I know a hooker with a can of spray paint who could show you a good time once she gets out of jail. :D






(sorry, I've been dealing with a lot of hookers lately :rolleyes:)

[trg42]

Damn you Stick ! After I saw your excellent writeup and pics on the "RIS II - A brief history " on WEVO I just had to have one

I am embarassed to say I bought one without having a upper project for it. It sat in a box for a couple of months until I got bored one evening and installed it on my RRA 458 Socom. I know it doesn't do the RIS II rail justice to be sitting on a "toy"

I wasn't going to put a VFG but after 100rds and a shredded hand I figured the VFG would help spread the recoil a bit

The RRA barrel is a heavy .936 Bull so it was a bit tricky to install, but the gas block just clears the ID of the rail

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c347/TRG42/458%20Socom/Copyof458socom1.jpg


http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c347/TRG42/458%20Socom/Copyof458socom9.jpg

[lindertw]

very nice - that barrel looks like a tight squeeze :cool:

[TOM1911]

Just got my Mk18 yesterday and I'm installing it on Sat. C'mon weekend:D