Beretta 93R clone?

[elephant]

Been working on this for a few weeks. I don't know if there is a market for 93R frame based on the standard 92FS but I have stripped my Beretta 92FS down, 3d scanned it, created a solid model in Autodesk Inventor. Once I modeled the 92, I tweaked it and modified it to resemble a 93R. I have a complete CAD drawing that is 100000000% accurate and created the CAM files for CNC. When I say accurate, I mean that it is technically and dimensionally accurate- I could machine this and all my parts from my 92FS would fit perfectly. As far as actual 93R specs go, I think I am within the 93-95% accurate range. I don't have access to a real one and I have never seen one except for online.

Just curious if you think there would be a market for this? I am not a manufacture but a buddy of mine has a Class III manufactures license but with no equipment. Technically this is an exact 92FS frame except with a reformed trigger guard and a forward angled frame to attach a folding angled fore grip. I don't think this would fall under "class III" or "NFA" territory? Any thoughts? Also, if these were produced from stainless steel and finished with a Bruniton coating and ready to be assembled with your donor frame parts, would this frame be worth $288 to someone who likes the 93R look? I think that is what my buddy and I are shooting for price wise?

51775
Beretta 92 frame side

51776
Beretta 92 frame angle

51777
Beretta 93R frame rear angle

51778
Beretta 93R frame side angle

[gaijin]

I'm thinking "start up" costs would exceed revenue generated.
I see a microscopically small actual market.

Additionally, I always thought Beretta should stick with shotguns- they do those quite well.

[Coal Dragger]

I can think of one guy who would absolutely be a buyer...

[opngrnd]

I can think of one guy who would absolutely be a buyer...

You're not going to invite our friend back, are you?

[ramairthree]

I think the market for a 93R clone would be relatively small.
But $288 would be very tolerable to pay for one.

However, a 92 frame in SS would have a lot of interest.

I would post in the Beretta forum.

There are a few different 92 frames.
Standard, non railed variants are,
The old, standard M9 style with straight dust cover and full back strap.
The more recent with radius back strap and slanted dust cover.
And a desireable transitional radiused back strap with straight dust cover.

Very favorite versions of the basic frame types are the Elite II that has a beveled mag well and checkered front and backstrapes.

I don’t think you need to do any coatings.

I think if you posted in the Beretta forum you would be able to make 93R frames for that price you would have a decent amount of interest.

However,
If you posted “Is anyone interested in paying 288$ for Elite II frames in SS with the “transitional unicorn” radiused backstrap and straight dust cover?”

You would have massive interest.

Many want a steel frame for 92s. CZ does this at a very reasonable cost. Beretta does not.

[1911-A1]

I've always wanted a Beretta with a frame mounted thumb safety that I could carry C&L. I know they made a tiny run of them but not enough to be a real option.

[ramairthree]

I've always wanted a Beretta with a frame mounted thumb safety that I could carry C&L. I know they made a tiny run of them but not enough to be a real option.

That invites the need for other parts. Those parts are in high demand for converting 92Ds into frame safety versions.

A steel beretta frame for standard M9, 92FS, 92G configuration becomes a simple swap out for the aluminum alloy frames.
The parts avaiability is simple.

I once read a web page where a guy made his own 92 frame from steel. It was a time consuming one off process. A run of say, 1000 frames, I bet would be sold off very rapidly.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Out of curiosity, what about a new frame for a PSP/P7? Make is a polymer grip with a rail insert? 3D print it with one of those Nylon powder printers? P7s are cool, but more ass heavy than a Kardashian.

[elephant]

Out of curiosity, what about a new frame for a PSP/P7?

What is with you guys and P7's? Is it like a cult or something like that? I swear, everyone that has one talks about it like it was created by GOD and has the power of the Holy Spirit in it. When people mention "P7" I automatically feel that I have nothing in common with them and couldn't ever have a meaningful relationship with them. I compare the P7 to a Subaru Baja, it wants to be a 4 door El Camino, but came into the market 30 years to late, it looks like the designer from Crocs and the head of fashion from Toms came together and created a car together in one afternoon. Its ugly, makes no sense, but surprisingly, it holds it value.

[MountainRaven]

What is with you guys and P7's? Is it like a cult or something like that? I swear, everyone that has one talks about it like it was created by GOD and has the power of the Holy Spirit in it. When people mention "P7" I automatically feel that I have nothing in common with them and couldn't ever have a meaningful relationship with them. I compare the P7 to a Subaru Baja, it wants to be a 4 door El Camino, but came into the market 30 years to late, it looks like the designer from Crocs and the head of fashion from Toms came together and created a car together in one afternoon. Its ugly, makes no sense, but surprisingly, it holds it value.

The P7 is an excellent pistol and the Baja is an excellent car.

Good day, sir!

[Coal Dragger]

You're not going to invite our friend back, are you?

LOL. No.

Just chuckled about it a bit.

[26 Inf]

[QUOTE=1911-A1;2622560] repeat - second post is more detailed - computer told me I had times out, WTF?

[26 Inf]

I've always wanted a Beretta with a frame mounted thumb safety that I could carry C&L. I know they made a tiny run of them but not enough to be a real option.

Anway you'd consider doing it with a Taurus PT92 frame?

I had one of those long ago, when they first came out. I thought it was a good pistol for the price.

We were shooting lead at work - this was during the revolver era, so since we used lead SWC's for the revolvers the bean counters bought 9mm in lead for training - the barrel leaded up quickly and accuracy was poor. Night and day difference with FMJ.

Although I liked it, it was used as part of a trade for a Model 25 Smith.

FWIW - I've always thought the 92D's were the best DAO pistols ever. We had an agency who used them, all the deputies thought they sucked, but I've always enjoyed shooting them.

[26 Inf]

LOL. No.

Just chuckled about it a bit.

I saved that photo in my screen saver slide show, I always get a chuckle when it rotates through.

[tigershilone]

I can think of one guy who would absolutely be a buyer...

Would double the market for a cross draw chest holster as well...............................

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

What is with you guys and P7's? Is it like a cult or something like that? I swear, everyone that has one talks about it like it was created by GOD and has the power of the Holy Spirit in it. When people mention "P7" I automatically feel that I have nothing in common with them and couldn't ever have a meaningful relationship with them. I compare the P7 to a Subaru Baja, it wants to be a 4 door El Camino, but came into the market 30 years to late, it looks like the designer from Crocs and the head of fashion from Toms came together and created a car together in one afternoon. Its ugly, makes no sense, but surprisingly, it holds it value.

That is kind of funny. My two crusades in life, besides a polymer framed P7, is to bring back Crocs (for adult men) and the use of the word 'retarded'. The both fit everyday life so perfectly, but people get all judgemental when you use them...

That P7 cult- and it is a cult whose intensity makes 1911 affinity seem like puppy-love- is what could drive it to commercial success.

Why the P7? Because it is so different from any other handgun that it is indistinguishable from magic.

[ramairthree]

I am with you on being mystified over the reputation of the P7.

Innovative? Yes.
Well made? Yes.
Accurate? Yes.
Limited availability compared to desireability and availability? Yes?

But, when all is said and done, whether it is a squeeze cocking front strap or a clicking and expanding baseplate, no serious shooter wants a gun with a changing grip when it comes to serious business.

[elephant]

look, id rather have a P7 than nothing at all. But its not like are living in times where we have to chose between a Colt single action revolver or a Remington 1875.

[26 Inf]

What is with you guys and P7's? Is it like a cult or something like that?

The P7 was designed with the West German Police in mind. The designer, realizing that many of the West German police officers were descendants of farm families, determined that a self-cocking pistol using the milking motion that farm children had grown up performing during their evening and morning chores would simplify firearms training.

Unfortunately, the blueprints for the pistol got reversed and the squeeze cock mechanism mimics the exact opposite action, much like many believed occurred with the Camilus MK1 Survival/Paratrooper knife blade reversal.

Once the pistol was in production the weapon's function was fait accompli and shooters were required to adjust. There was some initial concern by the West German Dairy Association that this would result in many dairy cows with sore, distended udders due to milking by West German Police Officers returning to their birthplace farms on Holiday, but the expected impact never materialized.

And now, as Paul Harvey intoned, you know the rest of the story.










:jester:

[1168]

However,
If you posted “Is anyone interested in paying 288$ for Elite II frames in SS with the “transitional unicorn” radiused backstrap and straight dust cover?”


I’ll take two, with a follow on order for a pair of stainless steel 96a1 frames, checkered and beveled.

[ramairthree]

There is some comedy going on. There will also, I expect, be more requests for various wish list projects.

But, while sticking to Beretta,
As sure as I am that many would love a decent priced 93R, there is simply not a way to put new 93Rs into a transferable status for the people that want them.

A semi automatic clone would have features not making it a clone. Unless people were willing to go the AOW or SBR route. Again limiting interest.

A SS 92 frame however, would generate significant interest. With increased interest if it had EIi grip checkering and magwell beveling. Of the three main variants, Classic M9, current slanted dust cover with rear radius, and rear radius with classic M9 straight dust cover,
The last would attract the most interest.

SD (classic frame with rail), M9A1, and Vertec are options with a rail on the dustcover. The M9A1 and SD are very similar. I suspect a steel SD/M9A1 frame would also have some desireability.

Rarer versions with frame mounted safeties, etc. require additional parts.

Overall, I think the most interest would be in attractive SS EII frames. Beretta fans have long wanted a real SS frame for their INOX instead of the coated aluminum alloy ones.

This would be even more popular as a factory offering. An all steel EIi type gun for production.

[elephant]

51795

I modeled this as a reference, it doesn't have the locking pin but should give you a good idea of the final product. I was under the impression that an "angled" foregrip on a pistol was 100% legal. Am I wrong? Technically, this is not a vertical grip because it is locked at a 42 degree angle when extended. If you added the folding but stock, I think you would be in NFA territory.

[ramairthree]

As opposed to the magpul AFG,
I have never heard the 93R referred as meeting AFG criteria.

A pistol grip at an angle is still a pistol grip.

An attachment like the MP AFG, that is not a grip, just something that changes the angle of your grip, is GTG.

Whether I agree with it or not, or am not happy about,
I see no way the 93R grip is going to be acceptable.

I will be happy to be proven wrong.

All of my previous posts regarding this have been based on the semi auto 93R clone being a no go exept for the SBR/AOW perspective.

Which is why I gave an alternative SS Beretta frame that would be popular.

[MountainRaven]

Sounds like somebody should write a letter to the ATF.

[ralph]

Other than the legal ramfications for the 93R grip, I don't see anything wrong with your idea, except one other thing.. The Bruniton finish..really, that stuff is just a couple notches above house paint. Since you're making these frames from stainless, why not just leave them in the white, with a matte finish? Or, make them from carbon steel, and have them black nitrided, this would offer the customer a high degree of rust resistance, and might come close to matching a Bruniton finish.. Oh, and 25 lpi checkering on the front,and back straps..

[Liemohn Manufacturing LLC]

Sir's if this thread is still active. Or the project proposed is still pending, I would like to speak with participants for a collaboration. I am a 93R collector, I own one and several spare parts, I am also a machinist with many firearms industry freinds who could contribute. I would love to see a semi auto 93R come to the table as well as spare parts for existing guns. If you still have interest, please message me through this sites e-mail system or seek me out on the web. Thank you. Tom Liemohn AKA WA-Tom or Liemohn Manufacturing LLC Kent WA.

[Firefly]

Howdy,

The Beretta 93R is more relevant now than ever in modern combat. You kids playing your Fortnight and Wildlands don’t know anything about it. My Uncle Sam has me fighting in the rice paddies of The War of 1812 when I was a contractor for Executive Outcomes. I saved the entire platune when my Kentucky Rifle jammed. Then guns were JUNK. And not even in a Man’s Caliber like the Arquebus we used in basic at Fart Bennin’s School for Wayward Boys. Heh. You millennials wouldn’t know about it. Anyways I was zapping Soviet Canadians with my Beretta 93R chambered in .357 Sig. I even converted it from burst to full otto. No kill like overkill. I still carry my Beretta 93R as my CCW on them treacherous trips to Kroger. Because I am a sheepdog. Not some fruit who plays Fortnight.

Hope this helps

Firefly

[VIP3R 237]

Oh no make it stop :suicide2:;)


Howdy,

The Beretta 93R is more relevant now than ever in modern combat. You kids playing your Fortnight and Wildlands don’t know anything about it. My Uncle Sam has me fighting in the rice paddies of The War of 1812 when I was a contractor for Executive Outcomes. I saved the entire platune when my Kentucky Rifle jammed. Then guns were JUNK. And not even in a Man’s Caliber like the Arquebus we used in basic at Fart Bennin’s School for Wayward Boys. Heh. You millennials wouldn’t know about it. Anyways I was zapping Soviet Canadians with my Beretta 93R chambered in .357 Sig. I even converted it from burst to full otto. No kill like overkill. I still carry my Beretta 93R as my CCW on them treacherous trips to Kroger. Because I am a sheepdog. Not some fruit who plays Fortnight.

Hope this helps

Firefly

[Firefly]

Somebody had to do it.

Anyways a semi auto Beretta 93 clone would be kind of pointless and lame.

[jpmuscle]

Howdy,

The Beretta 93R is more relevant now than ever in modern combat. You kids playing your Fortnight and Wildlands don’t know anything about it. My Uncle Sam has me fighting in the rice paddies of The War of 1812 when I was a contractor for Executive Outcomes. I saved the entire platune when my Kentucky Rifle jammed. Then guns were JUNK. And not even in a Man’s Caliber like the Arquebus we used in basic at Fart Bennin’s School for Wayward Boys. Heh. You millennials wouldn’t know about it. Anyways I was zapping Soviet Canadians with my Beretta 93R chambered in .357 Sig. I even converted it from burst to full otto. No kill like overkill. I still carry my Beretta 93R as my CCW on them treacherous trips to Kroger. Because I am a sheepdog. Not some fruit who plays Fortnight.

Hope this helps

Firefly

Needs more blue line punisher my friend


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ramairthree]

The funny thing is.
Since my previous rendered opinion,
Vertical grips have been declared to not be a vertical grip if they are not 90 degrees.

Machine me up a hammer spring cap that contains a detachable mount for a brace, a version of the 93R grip that clamps to a regular 92 trigger guard like the old surefire stuff, I’ll throw a threaded barrel and suppressor on,
And it would make a pretty cool PDW.

[Liemohn Manufacturing LLC]

The funny thing is.
Since my previous rendered opinion,
Vertical grips have been declared to not be a vertical grip if they are not 90 degrees.

Machine me up a hammer spring cap that contains a detachable mount for a brace, a version of the 93R grip that clamps to a regular 92 trigger guard like the old surefire stuff, I’ll throw a threaded barrel and suppressor on,
And it would make a pretty cool PDW.


OK I guess I stepped in to something I was not fully aware of. My response was based off of a random web search. I am serious about my statements though. If this discussion is something more than just having fun, contact me. Have a good one.

[ramairthree]

OK I guess I stepped in to something I was not fully aware of. My response was based off of a random web search. I am serious about my statements though. If this discussion is something more than just having fun, contact me. Have a good one.

While humorous there was a serious note to my reply.
A semi automatic 93R would require out of production D slides.
It would require legacy frame parts for a frame mounted safety.
It would require copy of the 93R frame with frame mounted safety design and the specific trigger guard characteristics.
It would require the folding grip parts.
It would require an out of production barrel.

This is not going to occur at a price point with a ton of interest.

If you were to make kits for a 92 to 93R like Carbine conversion you might generate some more interest.

[davidjinks]

HAHA!


I can think of one guy who would absolutely be a buyer...

[Eurodriver]

I can think of one guy who would absolutely be a buyer...


You're not going to invite our friend back, are you?

Lololol