View Full Version : Modern options for light DA or "safe action" style, WITHOUT a trigger safety
SomeOtherGuy
05-06-18, 21:04
As the title says. I have determined that I don't like trigger safety blades for handgun use. The hinged trigger style as used on the M&P and FN is slightly less offensive, but also a dislike. I am interested in all of my reasonable options for a reasonably modern semiauto design in a common caliber (9mm or .40) that is deemed safe to carry ready to fire, that does NOT have a trigger-blade safety. The main options I know of are the Sig P320 (yes, I'm aware of the recall) and the Kahr pistols. I would prefer double stack and I see that Kahr owners seem polarized between love and hate with little in between, mostly depending on whether their example stopped having jams in the first 200 rounds, or not.
Are there any other reasonable options that meet these criteria? I would also consider a DAO hammer-fired design if the trigger pull is not terrible and the design is reputable. I have a Sig P250 in .22 rimfire that is decent, but the centerfire P250 is discontinued and I think much of the competing DAO designs have been also.
Any of the P-series pistols from HK, with a LEM trigger, might do the trick. I'd see if I could find one at a LGS/range to rent, before buying. The LEM trigger is a bit different than DA/SA, or DAO, and not everybody likes it, That's the reason I mentioned renting first..
gunnerblue
05-06-18, 21:52
Have you tried any of H&K’s LEM models? I shoot both a P2000 and P2000SK in the standard configuration and while the trigger pull is a little heavy, it has a very discernible wall near the end of travel and the reset is not too far. I also shoot a HK45 with the light LEM and prefer this setup. The trigger pull is very smooth and light- reset is the same, not as fast as a Glock or 1911 but not bad either.
The P2000 and P30 series are available in double stack 9mm and .40 S&W.
HK LEM
Sig has the DA Kellerman. No experience with it just know it exists
S&W 5946 is the DA only version of the 5906. However these guns are no longer in production and they are all steel so weight may be an issue.
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Find someone with a Walther P99 and give it a try.
IMO one of the best compromises for a SA/DA. I love mine, totally reliable, accurate, many innovative characteristics.
If I was dealing with a service pistol situation rather than a bedside/car pistol, the PPQ M1 would be my pick. The P99 is it's older brother, fits same holsters, etc.
Since you mentioned Kahr's I'll ask; how important is capacity? Best DAO's still in production, to the best of my knowledge: HK LEM series, Kahr, DA revolver.
Why avoid DA/SA? Do you want the same trigger pull for every shot?
Forgot to mention, there are DAO Walther P99 variants as well. Ran across a used one once.
Kahr is hard to beat for smoothness, but it's a different class of pistol. Not a service pistol. You have to work with it a bit (break-in), but it's worth it if you are looking for compact carry. I'll keep mine, but I don't consider it a "if you could only have one" option.
You could consider a PX4 with the “C” type trigger (constant action), or convert a “D” model.
Personally, I think striker guns are the way to go for DAO. I like Kahr’s alot, but capacity may be a concern for some.
Like Pilot said, if you are considering a hammer gun, why not do DA/SA?
SomeOtherGuy
05-07-18, 21:07
Why avoid DA/SA? Do you want the same trigger pull for every shot?
I own a bunch of DA/SA pistols and have a reasonably good handle on what those options are, so I'm not necessarily avoiding them, I just think I have good info on the options. And yes, I would prefer the same trigger pull for every shot, though it's not essential.
I actually like the discontinued Ruger P-series with DA/SA, decock-only setup, but they are bulky and a little heavy, and long out of production at this point. My current EDC is a P95, but I would like something a little smaller and lighter, ideally with a constant trigger pull.
I also prefer a long and smooth trigger pull, like a good DA revolver or a Kahr, rather than distinct two-stage like most striker-fired options. Maybe I should get a Kahr, but I would like to have a good idea of the full range of options.
You could consider a PX4 with the “C” type trigger (constant action), or convert a “D” model.
The PX4 C is DAO but stays half cocked, and is supposed to be about half way between DA and SA for the pull weight and Kahr-ish. It never seemed to catch on, even much less than the PX4, so I've never seen or tried the trigger.
You can still find P250 conversion kits if you look around, so you could drop your trigger module into a 9 or 40. Good holster options as it should fit the same as the P320.
SomeOtherGuy
05-10-18, 13:13
Again, thanks for the ideas. I see a couple mentions of Walther. What about the Walther Creed? This appears to be a concealed-hammer pure DAO with good reviews.
I would also recommend that you look at the Sig DAK trigger. It’s in the P-22X series, not sure if that’s modern enough for you or if you are only looking at polymer frames. I love my P226 DAK and would have no issues carrying it as a duty gun, but I’m GLOCK only for all of my purposes now.
"Maybe I should get a Kahr, but I would like to have a good idea of the full range of options."
Had a CW45 Kahr. Great trigger and a good shooter, but full of gremlins. And instead of getting better, it got worse!
Picked up a S&W Shield .45 about a year ago, mainly because of a healthy rebate and curiosity. I still can't figure out why it shoots so well, and the trigger is reminiscent of a good DA revolver. It's a little ugly, but a revelation.
Have you tried any of H&K’s LEM models? I shoot both a P2000 and P2000SK in the standard configuration and while the trigger pull is a little heavy, it has a very discernible wall near the end of travel and the reset is not too far. I also shoot a HK45 with the light LEM and prefer this setup. The trigger pull is very smooth and light- reset is the same, not as fast as a Glock or 1911 but not bad either.
The P2000 and P30 series are available in double stack 9mm and .40 S&W.
I had to take shelf my USP with LEM for now. The reset was just a hair longer than my Glock and M&Ps and it caused me to not let it out far enough.
I have a "Compact" size Lionheart LH-9 (https://www.lionheartindustries.com/), 13 round double stack 9 MM. They call it "Triple action", but when you first rack a round into the chamber you can the use the external safety to be "Cocked and locked" or instead you can just push the hammer back up. Now you can choose to use the safety...or not. With the Safety off, a long , pretty light, pull of the trigger repositions the hammer to the fire mode a slight more pull and bang! Also if you did happen to pull the trigger and got a click instead of a bang just pull the double action trigger again to get a second opinion. (While that sounds good, most would do tap, rack bang instead)
The gun is assembled in Washington from Korean parts or it was. Mine has older three dot sights that have been superseded by Novak style sights. I like my gun. I prefer a larger caliber So I don't shoot it much, but I won't part with it.
gunnerblue
05-13-18, 22:23
I had to take shelf my USP with LEM for now. The reset was just a hair longer than my Glock and M&Ps and it caused me to not let it out far enough.
To me, the reset on the USP LEM is just a touch shorter than that of the P2000/P30 series. Personally, I don’t ride the reset much enough to notice vs shooting my VP9, but I understand that for some this may be an issue.
SeriousStudent
05-13-18, 22:52
The nice thing about the Beretta PX4, is that you can swap parts and change it between the C and D models. I'm doing that right now.
Southern Ohio Gunworks has the D model (police trade-ins) for 250 bucks. I got one to use as a teaching gun/loaner.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts (and cost) on converting to the C, as well as the C trigger once you get a feel for it.
I often carry a Kahr. Love the light smooth DA. Accurate, fast enough and slim baby.
I know a few guys with the Sig P320 and the trigger on that gun is excellent. Very accurate and from my experience, very reliable.
SomeOtherGuy
05-16-18, 21:19
Again, thanks for all the replies. I wish I had a range nearby with rentals, but I don't. I was dimly aware of the DAK and LEM options, but didn't know that the PX4 had a similar option. This gives me a good idea of what to look into, while I keep debating if I should just go with a quality DA/SA (hence my other thread asking about Sig magazines).
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