Castle Nut Torquing [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

jschmitt08

05-13-18, 22:16

I am installing a QD end plate on my Colt and am need of some advice. The tools I used to get it off was the hammerhead tool with the lower secured in a Magpul Bev Block/vise. This was no issue. As far as putting it back together, I have a torque wrench and will use loctite C5A. My concern is with how the lower is secured in the bev block...would applying the proper torque spec cause any harm using this combo?

titsonritz

05-13-18, 23:00

jschmitt08

05-13-18, 23:28

And why are you using Lotite? A castle nut should have an appropriate anti-seize compond applied, torqued to spec and staked in two places.

I not seeing how a Bev block and Hammerhead combo would harm anything.

Loctite C5A is anti seize, not threadlocker. I was more worried about possible stress or flex to the lower.

titsonritz

05-13-18, 23:30

Loctite C5A is anti seize, not threadlocker. I was more worried about possible stress or flex to the lower.

Oops, duh, my apology.

Hammer_Man

05-14-18, 07:30

Torque spec is 40 ft. Lbs plus or minus 2, it's not a lot of torque. I've never used a Bev block to secure a lower, but if it secures through the mag well it should be fine. Just go slow, and stop if you feel like damage is being done.

jschmitt08

05-14-18, 07:49

Torque spec is 40 plus or minus 2, it's not a lot of torque. I've never used a Bev block to secure a lower, but if it secures through the mag well it should be fine. Just go slow, and stop if you feel like damage is being done.

Yes it will be secured through the magwell.

26 Inf

05-14-18, 10:05

I'm sure there was some engineering used to determine 40 foot pounds.

Essentially the castle nut functions as a jam nut to hold the receiver extension in place with the end plate limiting rotation off the RE.

In my view, that has always seemed more than is needed for the assembly, especially considering it is staked and the old style retainers were not.

Hulkstr8

05-14-18, 16:54

Make sure you correct for the rotational twist. I have stripped threads on at least two tubes because I'm an idiot.

For example, if using a Bev Block, put a stock on it and hold it square while you tighten it. Alternatively, if using a jig for the tube (i.e. the Reaction Block) then you must hold the lower/pistol grip.

Tigwelder1971

05-17-18, 17:05

I lock the lower between my knees and crank it down. I've not had one come loose yet. Ymmv.

markm

05-17-18, 17:18

I just snug it up pretty tight, and stake.

hk_shootr

05-17-18, 18:45

I just snug it up pretty tight, and stake.

Works well.....

kgj1119

06-05-18, 11:14

Bev block will be fine. A magwell holder will also work just fine. Just support it with ur hard while doing s proper torque. And use the anti seize. And stake in 2 places. It will be good. You would be surprised how many top manufacturers for properly torque the castle nut

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

samnev

06-26-18, 11:59

I lock the lower between my knees and crank it down. I've not had one come loose yet. Ymmv.

Same here. Never had. onetime loose.

ssc

06-26-18, 12:22

I just snug it up pretty tight, and stake.

Same here.

Cheers, Steve

Glock9mm1990

06-26-18, 17:13

I never used a torque wrench, I just use a good quality armorers wrench and tighten it down as hard as I can and stake it twice.

jschmitt08

06-26-18, 19:18

The magpul block worked fine. I torqued it properly then staked it. Thank you all for the advice.

Vegasshooter

06-29-18, 15:22

For everyone who has never seen it come loose, I have. I actually called Iraqguns and spoke to him about it. It is a bad ju-ju deal when it happens. Your gun is 100% down, and you’re out of the fight. Guess I’m saying: tighten em up, and stake them well.

26 Inf

06-29-18, 21:10

MegademiC

06-29-18, 23:55

I don't understand how your gun goes 100% down, guaranteed (at least that what it sounds like you are saying).

I understand if it comes loose and allows your receiver extension to rotate a completish revolution you might get the buffer detent and spring into place as debris that could potentially hang something up.

You also might lose your rear take down pin detent and spring if the end plate is turned enough.

But none of those are warstoppers.

What am I missing?

Buffer could bind, retainer pin or parts can bind up fcg. That said, i had a gun that loosened. Checking every couple mags worked until i upgraded the buffer and tube and got a wrench.

The tighter, the more rounds until it comes loose. Its now staked.

Duffy

06-30-18, 09:54

I found the tip of my broken retaining pin inside the trigger group, it stopped the gun from working, it didn't take long for the broken part to end up in the only cavity it could find. This wasn't a result of an unstaked castle nut, but the effect would have been the same or worse, the buffer retaining pin in its entirely, plus the spring, would have been a bigger problem than the tip of the retaining pin.

I believe Iraqgunz and Ash Hess (author of the latest TM) on the importance of torquing the castle nut properly and staking it in two places. My own experience with unstaked castle nuts and old style locking rings that can't be staked had taught me as much.

Little things are important. Staking shouldn't be considered a little thing.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/ESF%20CNF_zpsna33nksz.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/ESF%20CNF_zpsna33nksz.jpg.html)

The slew of end plate and nut combination products that go out of their way so no staking is necessary are not a step forward in my opinion, unless you need to swap out your RE all the time.

dentron

06-30-18, 10:16

I would highly recommend a reaction block instead of a magwell block for installing receiver extensions.

And yes staking is a must. Its also not that hard to do , or undo for that matter.

26 Inf

06-30-18, 11:18

Buffer could bind, retainer pin or parts can bind up fcg. That said, i had a gun that loosened. Checking every couple mags worked until i upgraded the buffer and tube and got a wrench.

The tighter, the more rounds until it comes loose. Its now staked.

I get all that - mentioned it my post 'you might get the buffer detent and spring into place as debris that could potentially hang something up'

I was curious that I might not have been thinking of something else that could happen since he called someone.

elephantrider

06-30-18, 19:27

I would highly recommend a reaction block instead of a magwell block for installing receiver extensions.

Good advice, but a reaction block might be a little pricey for some. Alternative. Get some inexpensive rubber padded vise jaws. I clamp my REs into the padded jaws firmly, and canted so that the stock position track is braced against one face of the jaws such that it will not rotate when the castle nut is tightened. Then it's just a matter of tightening/torquing down using whatever wrench you use.

dentron

06-30-18, 20:34

Good advice, but a reaction block might be a little pricey for some. Alternative. Get some inexpensive rubber padded vise jaws. I clamp my REs into the padded jaws firmly, and canted so that the stock position track is braced against one face of the jaws such that it will not rotate when the castle nut is tightened. Then it's just a matter of tightening/torquing down using whatever wrench you use.This is a good cheaper alternative to the geisselehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180701/b126ba2038a956db5fd3a78bdeb8a07b.jpg

elephantrider

06-30-18, 23:37

Even cheaper alternative:
https://shop.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/vises-accessories/vise-jaws/brownells-rubber-faced-vise-jaws-sku080827000-923-3421.aspx?cm_mmc=PPC-_-Itwine-_-Google-_-080-827-000&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2I6gqoj92wIVQpR-Ch2FVwUmEAQYBCABEgJefvD_BwE
http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=LIS48100&source=froogle&kw=LIS48100&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIysydjYn92wIViVx-Ch0Y7Qo4EAkYASABEgJTB_D_BwE
https://www.amazon.com/Pair-Magnetic-Aluminium-Rubber-Metal/dp/B01FOQJT88/ref=asc_df_B01FOQJT88/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=191973869953&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7199702245093237077&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031909&hvtargid=pla-303315836875&psc=1