View Full Version : Is Economic Collapse Already Here?
Doc Safari
05-21-18, 17:53
I usually look askance at articles like this, because a lot of them either rely on tinfoil hat theories or are ultimately trying to sell you something, but this one was pretty compelling:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-21/when-43-americans-cant-pay-food-and-rent-we-can-safely-say-economic-collapse-here
United Way has done a study on a group of Americans they call ALICE: Asset Limited, Income Constrained, Employed. The study found that this group does not make the money needed “to survive in the modern economy.”
Between families living below the poverty line due to unemployment or disability and ALICEs, the study discovered that 43% of Americans were struggling to cover basic necessities like rent and food
Some states have more families living in ALICE levels than others. The 3 states with the most families barely surviving paycheck to paycheck are California, New Mexico, and Hawaii. Each of these states saw 49% of families struggling. North Dakota had the lowest ALICE percentage with 32%. You can check how your state fares right here. Despite the lowest unemployment rate since 2000, families all over the country are barely getting by.
This is just the beginning of a looming collapse in America.
Remember back when Greece began to collapse? It was the same thing – no one could afford the basics and things went downhill pretty quickly from there. It really hit the papers when a strict austerity program was instituted and culminated when a “bank holiday” shut down the financial system for an entire week.
There are similar stories in the UK (where the taxpayers can still fund a 45 million dollar wedding but poor families can’t afford to eat every day), Argentina, and Cyprus.
Jose wrote for us about the warning signs that the collapse of Venezuela was approaching and they’re eerily familiar. Food rationing began, the cost of medical care became prohibitive, the health insurance system began to fail, and people began to make difficult choices about rent versus food.
I don’t know how it could be any more clear than the fact that nearly half of the American population is also making that decision each month.
My take: I live in one of the states he lists (New Mexico). I don't doubt him for a minute based on what I've seen.
I trip out at the new generations of young people who have nothing, Uber here and there. The idea of buying a car is not even possible.
I trip out at the new generations of young people who have nothing, Uber here and there. The idea of buying a car is not even possible.
I’m a millennial, who has tried to buy a car on multiple occasions, I cannot get approved to save my life. Despite a good income, and the up until recently no dept or other bills, yet I had no problem buying a new house at 2% fixed interest.
I also have never been able to get a credit card.
It’s hard for us, most my friends are in the same spot, we make our money and no one’s willing to help us out so I see a lot of my friends go out and do dumb shit with their cash because they can’t invest it where it counts.
And yet, here in CA, I see both sides. Families that can't make it, and at the same time young folks all sporting signs of wealth... fancy vacations and cars and eating out all the time. My wife and I who do well can't afford much of what we see... just don't understand.
Anyway, to the point of the OP, no. We're not that close yet. On our way however, yes. We'll be behind Europe in that collapse. Watch them first.
RetroRevolver77
05-21-18, 18:25
To many people don't budget or bother with trying to live in survival mode.
Toyoland66
05-21-18, 20:45
Interesting.
I work in the construction industry, and we are facing a labor shortage, there is more work than people to perform it which is driving up costs. It makes me think that people are either unmotivated, unskilled, or both. At a minimum, people make bad decisions, and go to school to get stupid degrees that aren’t worth the debt they accrue to obtain them. I got a BS degree in construction management 12 years ago and have never been unemployed, I guess it also helps that CO has a strong economy right now.
I think the problem is more social than economic but I’m no expert...
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-21-18, 20:49
And when interest rates rise and debt coverage gets more expensive and housing prices get under pressure. We don’t have the same problems as Greece, but when interest rates go up, servicing all the debt is going to squeeze things hard in the budget.
I try to live in my means, but the other side looks at all the idiots- too many idiots- and the whole thing is going to tumble at some point because of too many bad choices. Why should I keep capital when it will be taxed or taken, while all the idiots spent theirs.
We need capital to take less and employment income to take more of the economic pie. The money changers take far too much.
I think the rise of inflation is a direct result of amount of credit given every year.
I trip out at the new generations of young people who have nothing, Uber here and there. The idea of buying a car is not even possible.Comes down to where you live. In NYC or Center City Philly you're probably better off using Uber. Philly not as much as NYC but still. A few years ago I made the mistake of driving my grandma to NYC to see her dying sister. It was surprisingly ok on the way there. However, on the way back I sat in traffic for 3hrs 1.3 miles away from the Holland tunnel. That's all I had left to go to get out of NY and into NJ and on to the turnpike. I've been there too many times and should have known better than to drive. Should have taken the train.
And every time I have to drive someone to JFK international airport. I just feel like saying F this and walking out into traffic. Between 678, 495 and the belt parkway....I'd rather have my teeth pulled without novacaine
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Interesting.
I work in the construction industry, and we are facing a labor shortage, there is more work than people to perform it which is driving up costs. It makes me think that people are either unmotivated, unskilled, or both. At a minimum, people make bad decisions, and go to school to get stupid degrees that aren’t worth the debt they accrue to obtain them. I got a BS degree in construction management 12 years ago and have never been unemployed, I guess it also helps that CO has a strong economy right now.
I think the problem is more social than economic but I’m no expert...
This. I’m industrial. We have two open positions, got about 50 resumes, 24 call backs, 6 showed up for competence testing and 4 passed. People just dont want jobs in this area- or they are “too good” for a certain wage. I hear that often from my fellow millenials.
I’m a millennial, who has tried to buy a car on multiple occasions, I cannot get approved to save my life. Despite a good income, and the up until recently no dept or other bills, yet I had no problem buying a new house at 2% fixed interest.
I also have never been able to get a credit card.
It’s hard for us, most my friends are in the same spot, we make our money and no one’s willing to help us out so I see a lot of my friends go out and do dumb shit with their cash because they can’t invest it where it counts.
How old are you? Millenial is a huge range, but ive had zero issues. Im 30 and had a cc since i was 18 or so. Have you tried a devit card to start?
Locally the average wage is about $700 per week for a family. Yet the average home price is $530k. Things don’t add up very well.
And when interest rates rise and debt coverage gets more expensive and housing prices get under pressure. We don’t have the same problems as Greece, but when interest rates go up, servicing all the debt is going to squeeze things hard in the budget.
I try to live in my means, but the other side looks at all the idiots- too many idiots- and the whole thing is going to tumble at some point because of too many bad choices.
The availability of easy credit makes it too easy to live beyond your means. When I was first married gas credit cards were about all average folks had and they had to be paid off every month. My wife and I scrimped for nearly 6 months to buy a 100.00 television. No way I would do that today, I'd just put it on a card. The easy credit thing is one of the causes of ruination in our society. WE have become a nation of impatient folks, not willing to work to achieve.
You mention living within your means. I've owned six homes. None of them cost near what we were approved for. I'm not a financial genius but even I could see I wasn't going to be able to go skiing or have any toys if I was on the hook for that much of my paycheck for a mortgage. The realtors work on commission, it is not in their best interest to put you in a lower priced home. For the most part mortgages were packaged and sold, not much incentive for the original lender to ensure you could pay over the long run. You have to rein yourself in, no one else is likely to do so until you are in way over your head.
Why should I keep capital when it will be taxed or taken, while all the idiots spent theirs.
Retirement, plain and simple. Put your money in tax-free and let it build.
We need capital to take less and employment income to take more of the economic pie. The money changers take far too much.
The reality is that our economy is a house of cards. As you said, we have too many folks making money by moving the idea of money around. People such as us, who save and invest, often in mutual funds, enable the system to continue. At some point it is going to come tumbling down.
I'm a Christian. I believe the God who created the Earth, and Man, ensures that the Earth provides the abundance to support us all, if we practice good stewardship.
Even if you don't believe as I do, the reality is that the world's agricultural output is sufficient to feed us all. Yet we have folks starving, in all parts of the world, while wheat lays on the ground in Kansas.
Why is that? Simple answer, greed. Got to have more.
RetroRevolver77
05-22-18, 01:28
There is going to be a financial collapse on a biblical scale. I have zero doubt about it.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Moose-Knuckle
05-22-18, 04:18
Perform a search on YouTube for words like "L.A. third world", "homeless in CA", etc.
You think you were watching a NatGeo documentary about somewhere overseas ...
Straight Shooter
05-22-18, 06:25
MANY years ago..around about 1976 or so, I was introduced to the idea of SHTF, survivalism & economic collapse via reading articles in several publications, & by a man named Al Mar, of knifemaking fame. Al was a survivalist and I clearly remember when I first heard of, and realized something like this was even a possibility, well it set me off on a lifelong path of firearms, hunting, fishing, trapping, learning the "old ways"..FOXFIRE books were and are a treasure...and was a huge factor in my joining the Marine Corps infantry in '83. There has NEVER been a time since, where the Wolf wasnt at the door, where people werent trying to ban guns, hunting, the 2A and so forth.
NEVER been a time where the American economy, much less the world's, couldnt collapse OVERNIGHT given the right set of events or circumstances.
I truly, truly believe that at one time..70's & 80's and back..that a handful of people ran the worlds economies. Now, I think its so many, none of whom are on the same page, that they will bump heads soon enough. I see countries like Iran & N. Korea & Syria who back then didnt even have modern conveniences, who were still almost medieval, who now daily give the finger to America and its ally's. There were JOKES back then. They AINT NOW. They were allowed to become what they are now,thru passing the buck.
Gents- for those of you who are young..who dont know history, who havent been around to LIVE THROUGH all the shit thats happened in the past 30 years or so..you dont know how things were, and how bad theyve gotten. I got out of high school in '83..this world..this country..is UNRECOGNIZABLE to me from what it was then. Far too much to explain here & now. You older gents know EXACTLY what Im talking about.
So, I say all this..to say this: YES, THE WOLF !!IS!! AT THE DOOR- ALWAYS HAS BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE. PREPARE, NOW. STAY THAT WAY. But the single, solitary thing..if I had to pick just ONE THING I ever did to prepare for...whatever comes..is I took JESUS CHRIST as my personal Lord & Savior.
Now, ..I couldnt care less whats coming, because I KNOW HE is in command..and I KNOW what happens to me when I punch out.
That MY view, & you can do with it what you will.
I read this the other day. IMO, Brill is a good researcher and puts together good stuff for the common man, although he is a little left leaning his facts are, IMO straight.
I imagine this will get some of your pants in a wad. I'd always thought this was what McCain-Feingold was trying to prevent and what Citizens United actually accomplished.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter which tribe you ID with, if you aint rich enough, your f@cked.
http://time.com/5280446/baby-boomer-generation-america-steve-brill/
BrigandTwoFour
05-22-18, 12:35
This. I’m industrial. We have two open positions, got about 50 resumes, 24 call backs, 6 showed up for competence testing and 4 passed. People just dont want jobs in this area- or they are “too good” for a certain wage. I hear that often from my fellow millenials.
How old are you? Millenial is a huge range, but ive had zero issues. Im 30 and had a cc since i was 18 or so. Have you tried a devit card to start?
I'm a Millenial, though part of the earlier "Oregon Trail" generation. Likewise, never had issue with credit. Have bought two houses and a few cars, never an issue with getting a card.
Regarding the part I bolded, about the types of jobs and pay people are willing to take. I think it's a combination of both. No skills, don't want something that lacks prestige, or the pay isn't enough to cover the debt on their useless degree (so their parents will keep paying the loan until a "real job" comes along)
We as a country are in debt about $22 trillion. I don't know the extent to which economic collapse is happening at present, but given the lack of restraint in government spending and increasing world tensions, it's certainly obvious that economic collapse is inevitable.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Every economy is basically being artificially propped up at this point so that every last cent of wealth that can be stolen from folks in first world countries can be chiseled at and ground down before the inevitable total crash.
The only reason it hasn't all fallen apart is because there is still more wealth to milk and too many privately owned arms here in the USA.
The writing has been on the wall for quite some time.
I’m a millennial, who has tried to buy a car on multiple occasions, I cannot get approved to save my life. Despite a good income, and the up until recently no dept or other bills, yet I had no problem buying a new house at 2% fixed interest.
I also have never been able to get a credit card.
It’s hard for us, most my friends are in the same spot, we make our money and no one’s willing to help us out so I see a lot of my friends go out and do dumb shit with their cash because they can’t invest it where it counts.
Why is that?
Never had a problem since I was young. Always had great credit.
We as a country are in debt about $22 trillion. I don't know the extent to which economic collapse is happening at present, but given the lack of restraint in government spending and increasing world tensions, it's certainly obvious that economic collapse is inevitable.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Actually we're in debt for alot more than that..Our gov't dosen't include things like medicare,medicaid, social security, welfare,..(unfunded liabilitys) in that figure, and the exact amount that adds on, nobody knows for sure, I myself figure that's at least another $100T
Moose-Knuckle
05-22-18, 14:33
There has been a land rush in New Zealand for years now, billionaires buying up land and citizenship building their "boltholes" away from the rest of the masses.
If you search words like New Zealand billionaire boltholes tons of articles pop up, their advisers warn them of a coming world economic correction.
It's not a matter of if but when.
Actually we're in debt for alot more than that..Our gov't dosen't include things like medicare,medicaid, social security, welfare,..(unfunded liabilitys) in that figure, and the exact amount that adds on, nobody knows for sure, I myself figure that's at least another $100T
http://www.usdebtclock.org/ You can even get the real-time app for your iPhone if you want to track the debt minute-by-minute.
52104
There has been a land rush in New Zealand for years now, billionaires buying up land and citizenship building their "boltholes" away from the rest of the masses.
If you search words like New Zealand billionaire boltholes tons of articles pop up, their advisers warn them of a coming world economic correction.
It's not a matter of if but when.
I remember reading ( on zero hege, I think) the the new PM of NZ, had gotten a law passed so that foreigners could no longer buy land in NZ, So, that door got shut..
http://www.usdebtclock.org/ You can even get the real-time app for your iPhone if you want to track the debt minute-by-minute.
52104
Ahh, They've upgraded it, and it includes all debt, very good.. it's been awhile since I've looked at it last..Still $113T for everything, no way is that ever getting paid back...Jubliee, anyone?
MANY years ago..around about 1976 or so, I was introduced to the idea of SHTF, survivalism & economic collapse via reading articles in several publications, & by a man named Al Mar, of knifemaking fame. Al was a survivalist and I clearly remember when I first heard of, and realized something like this was even a possibility, well it set me off on a lifelong path of firearms, hunting, fishing, trapping, learning the "old ways"..FOXFIRE books were and are a treasure...and was a huge factor in my joining the Marine Corps infantry in '83. There has NEVER been a time since, where the Wolf wasnt at the door, where people werent trying to ban guns, hunting, the 2A and so forth.
NEVER been a time where the American economy, much less the world's, couldnt collapse OVERNIGHT given the right set of events or circumstances.
I truly, truly believe that at one time..70's & 80's and back..that a handful of people ran the worlds economies. Now, I think its so many, none of whom are on the same page, that they will bump heads soon enough. I see countries like Iran & N. Korea & Syria who back then didnt even have modern conveniences, who were still almost medieval, who now daily give the finger to America and its ally's. There were JOKES back then. They AINT NOW. They were allowed to become what they are now,thru passing the buck.
Gents- for those of you who are young..who dont know history, who havent been around to LIVE THROUGH all the shit thats happened in the past 30 years or so..you dont know how things were, and how bad theyve gotten. I got out of high school in '83..this world..this country..is UNRECOGNIZABLE to me from what it was then. Far too much to explain here & now. You older gents know EXACTLY what Im talking about.
So, I say all this..to say this: YES, THE WOLF !!IS!! AT THE DOOR- ALWAYS HAS BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE. PREPARE, NOW. STAY THAT WAY. But the single, solitary thing..if I had to pick just ONE THING I ever did to prepare for...whatever comes..is I took JESUS CHRIST as my personal Lord & Savior.
Now, ..I couldnt care less whats coming, because I KNOW HE is in command..and I KNOW what happens to me when I punch out.
That MY view, & you can do with it what you will.
Great post, my feelings exactly.
Actually we're in debt for alot more than that..Our gov't dosen't include things like medicare,medicaid, social security, welfare,..(unfunded liabilitys) in that figure, and the exact amount that adds on, nobody knows for sure, I myself figure that's at least another $100T
That’s when the “collapse” will happen and society falls apart- when the welfare checks stop and the ebt cards stop working.
Moose-Knuckle
05-22-18, 15:07
I remember reading (on zero hege, I think) the the new PM of NZ, had gotten a law passed so that foreigners could no longer buy land in NZ, So, that door got shut..
Yeah for you and me, NZ unlike us are smart by not letting the entire developing world into their borders.
Doors don't shut for billionaires however.
Doc Safari
05-22-18, 15:08
New Zealand is in the Pac Rim Ring of Fire. It will eventually experience the volcanoes and earthquakes the rest of the Pac Rim experiences.
That’s when the “collapse” will happen and society falls apart- when the welfare checks stop and the ebt cards stop working.
Could'nt agree with you more..Living in a big city when this happens, could be a death sentence..
MANY years ago..around about 1976 or so, I was introduced to the idea of SHTF, survivalism & economic collapse via reading articles in several publications, & by a man named Al Mar, of knifemaking fame. Al was a survivalist and I clearly remember when I first heard of, and realized something like this was even a possibility, well it set me off on a lifelong path of firearms, hunting, fishing, trapping, learning the "old ways"..FOXFIRE books were and are a treasure...and was a huge factor in my joining the Marine Corps infantry in '83. There has NEVER been a time since, where the Wolf wasnt at the door, where people werent trying to ban guns, hunting, the 2A and so forth.
NEVER been a time where the American economy, much less the world's, couldnt collapse OVERNIGHT given the right set of events or circumstances.
I truly, truly believe that at one time..70's & 80's and back..that a handful of people ran the worlds economies. Now, I think its so many, none of whom are on the same page, that they will bump heads soon enough. I see countries like Iran & N. Korea & Syria who back then didnt even have modern conveniences, who were still almost medieval, who now daily give the finger to America and its ally's. There were JOKES back then. They AINT NOW. They were allowed to become what they are now,thru passing the buck.
Gents- for those of you who are young..who dont know history, who havent been around to LIVE THROUGH all the shit thats happened in the past 30 years or so..you dont know how things were, and how bad theyve gotten. I got out of high school in '83..this world..this country..is UNRECOGNIZABLE to me from what it was then. Far too much to explain here & now. You older gents know EXACTLY what Im talking about.
So, I say all this..to say this: YES, THE WOLF !!IS!! AT THE DOOR- ALWAYS HAS BEEN, ALWAYS WILL BE. PREPARE, NOW. STAY THAT WAY. But the single, solitary thing..if I had to pick just ONE THING I ever did to prepare for...whatever comes..is I took JESUS CHRIST as my personal Lord & Savior.
Now, ..I couldnt care less whats coming, because I KNOW HE is in command..and I KNOW what happens to me when I punch out.
That MY view, & you can do with it what you will.
I agree, I graduated high school in '73, it was a entirely different world then, I figure if Trump starts making headway against the deep state, they just might pull the economic plug, in an effort to blame it all on him. They'd have no qulams about destroying this country economically, nor would they care about the disaster that would come with it. They'd let it go for about 6-12 months, and then come riding in with all the answers.. of course, there would be a small price to pay.. your rights..all of them.. and very probably, there would a big enough majority of broke dick, half starved people, who'd gladly sign away their rights, for a case of 20yr old MRE's and think they got the better deal... Was'nt it Regan who said "At any time we are no more than a generation away from losing our freedom" Hell, anymore I think 6months with out TV, the internet, facebook, twitter etc, would be enough for most people to give away the ranch, so they could get online, or watch the National Felons League on tv...
Doc Safari
05-22-18, 16:23
First they will try what Trump is trying: end the disparity in trade and commerce.
Then they will start a war to take over resources (like the $5 a gallon gas we are about to see).
Then they will have bank holidays and freezes on withdrawals over a certain amount.
They will then probably both pass restrictions on entitlements and seize retirement accounts, issuing Social Security vouchers for the seized accounts.
Meanwhile, in the background you will see property and other taxes rise during the entire time until the average person has to sell his home or other assets to pay the taxes.
People will leave the country in droves (if they can afford it); others will move in with friends and relatives or become homeless.
At the end of it all, people may wait too long to resist until it simply degenerates into anarchy.
First they will try what Trump is trying: end the disparity in trade and commerce.
Then they will start a war to take over resources (like the $5 a gallon gas we are about to see).
Then they will have bank holidays and freezes on withdrawals over a certain amount.
They will then probably both pass restrictions on entitlements and seize retirement accounts, issuing Social Security vouchers for the seized accounts.
Meanwhile, in the background you will see property and other taxes rise during the entire time until the average person has to sell his home or other assets to pay the taxes.
People will leave the country in droves (if they can afford it); others will move in with friends and relatives or become homeless.
At the end of it all, people may wait too long to resist until it simply degenerates into anarchy.
Getting a war started in the M.E. with some nukes getting slung around, and the U. S. getting hit a couple of times, would take care of just about everything on your list.. That reminds me, I've been seeing what seems like an uptick in people getting passports at the post office lately.. maybe I should get one, while the getting is good...
Moose-Knuckle
05-23-18, 03:44
First they will try what Trump is trying: end the disparity in trade and commerce.
Then they will start a war to take over resources (like the $5 a gallon gas we are about to see).
Then they will have bank holidays and freezes on withdrawals over a certain amount.
They will then probably both pass restrictions on entitlements and seize retirement accounts, issuing Social Security vouchers for the seized accounts.
Meanwhile, in the background you will see property and other taxes rise during the entire time until the average person has to sell his home or other assets to pay the taxes.
People will leave the country in droves (if they can afford it); others will move in with friends and relatives or become homeless.
At the end of it all, people may wait too long to resist until it simply degenerates into anarchy.
There is a defense think tank known as Deagel that projects the US population will dwindle to 100 million people from our current 327 million by the year 2025. This largely due in part to mass migration OUT of the US but also as a result of the things that transpire during socioeconomic collapse; violence, pandemics, famine, et al.
snippet:
The key element to understand the process that the USA will enter in the upcoming decade is migration. In the past, specially in the 20th century, the key factor that allowed the USA to rise to its colossus status was immigration with the benefits of a demographic expansion supporting the credit expansion and the brain drain from the rest of the world benefiting the States. The collapse of the Western financial system will wipe out the standard of living of its population while ending ponzi schemes such as the stock exchange and the pension funds. The population will be hit so badly by a full array of bubbles and ponzi schemes that the migration engine will start to work in reverse accelerating itself due to ripple effects thus leading to the demise of the States. This unseen situation for the States will develop itself in a cascade pattern with unprecedented and devastating effects for the economy. Jobs offshoring will surely end with many American Corporations relocating overseas thus becoming foreign Corporations!!!! We see a significant part of the American population migrating to Latin America and Asia while migration to Europe - suffering a similar illness - won't be relevant. Nevertheless the death toll will be horrible. Take into account that the Soviet Union's population was poorer than the Americans nowadays or even then. The ex-Soviets suffered during the following struggle in the 1990s with a significant death toll and the loss of national pride. Might we say "Twice the pride, double the fall"? Nope. The American standard of living is one of the highest, far more than double of the Soviets while having added a services economy that will be gone along with the financial system. When pensioners see their retirement disappear in front of their eyes and there are no servicing jobs you can imagine what is going to happen next. At least younger people can migrate. Never in human history were so many elders among the population. In past centuries people were lucky to get to their 30s or 40s. The American downfall is set to be far worse than the Soviet Union's one. A confluence of crisis with a devastating result.
http://www.deagel.com/country/forecast.aspx
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/980/41394346925_de6aab58d5_b.jpg
Getting a war started in the M.E. with some nukes getting slung around, and the U. S. getting hit a couple of times, would take care of just about everything on your list.. That reminds me, I've been seeing what seems like an uptick in people getting passports at the post office lately.. maybe I should get one, while the getting is good...New laws for domestic flights. You need a new drivers license or a passport
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New laws for domestic flights. You need a new drivers license or a passport This state continued to refuse to change driver’s licenses to be RealID compliant (the “new law” you mentioned), although I could have paid $60 and a 120 mile drive to get one that is (good for 4 years). When I renewed my passport, I just got a passport card in addition. Cost me $30, good for 10 years
Straight Shooter
05-23-18, 08:55
New laws for domestic flights. You need a new drivers license or a passport
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Thank you Moose, for this info. Ive read similar predictions/forecasts, however one wishes to think of them, before. Matter of fact, DECADES ago Ive read them, where we should have already, years ago, been in these predicaments. These popped up en masse in the 90's and early-mid 2000's. I remember clearly some absolutely wack-a-doo predictions from people who are STILL out there now, saying the same things, and worse. Theyve got websites,books, video channels, appear on the propaganda networks...ALL of them are propaganda networks.. and havent been close to right yet. How they can do this with a straight face is beyond me. They are NEVER asked about being 100% wrong for 20 years or more. At SOME POINT..yeah, they are gonna be right..as a Bible believing person...Ive already been told we are in for a total shitstorm someday, and I think in MY own lifetime. If that chart is even half right- we will be in for MAD MAX situations on a daily basis.
But what I/MYSELf think & believe is, like I said earlier, at one time there were a very limited number of "players" running things worldwide, probably a handful, with fingers left over. NOW? FAR MORE players..far more "ingredients" in this worldwide mix of chaos. Too many too count. And the old crew that were in charge, aint no more. The Left has very much succeeded in a few things over the past 30-40 years: 1. Theyve got COMPLETE control over almost all media. 2. They have almost complete control of schools & education from K thru college graduation and have turned out mindless, brainwashed fools for decades. . 3. Theyve got a huge chunk of the judiciary & legal system in this country. 4. Until recently, theyve had control of our top leadership positions, and still do have a HUGE percentage across America. QUESTION: Did yall know there are TWENTY muslims running for high office in America? What happens when Michigan gets a muslim Governor? What happens when a freaking ILLEGAL ALIEN, and there are many of those running too, get elected? I tell you, when you get ahold of the media, schools and judiciary..."its over man, its over".
On my LIFE.. I believe ALL that's left to do, the LAST NOTCH on the Socialist/Commie Totem Pole that they'll have to accomplish before going much further- is the dis-armament of the American population. SOMEHOW- we held on to that, and those of you old enough to have lived thru the late seventies & eighties should remember we almost lost EVERYTHING, was a close call for several years. They MUST do this. Ive said on this forum before, in the late seventies, I read, somewhere, the entire "manifesto" of the communist party. IT SAID THEN, it would take about 50 years to accomplish their goals. Been about 40 and theyve hit a lot of them.
In closing, sorry for the length..the ONE, SINGLE fly in the pudding that set a lot of this back, was Donald Trump. And I say that as one who despised him so much prior to election..I did not vote, purposely. I WAS WRONG. It is un-believable to me..especially considering the unprecedented alliance of evil thats come against him, what he has accomplished thus far. I do firmly believe he has set back the agenda, and will do so as long as he is in office. Reagan did too. But Carter, Slick Willy, & Obama were DEFINITELY "their boys"... and Im starting to think Bush was too, somewhat. But this guy Trump- I dont believe it.
Sorry for the rant, Ill just say, I now only put my faith in ONE book, who told us to prepare for 2000 years, and HOW to prepare, and has told us "NO MAN KNOWS THE HOUR AND THE DATE". And no "man", nor person, nor group nor institute, nor political party nor network, does. So, STAY READY-SO YOU DONT HAVE TO GET READY.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-23-18, 12:13
There is a defense think tank known as Deagel that projects the US population will dwindle to 100 million people from our current 327 million by the year 2025. This largely due in part to mass migration OUT of the US but also as a result of the things that transpire during socioeconomic collapse; violence, pandemics, famine, et al.
snippet:
http://www.deagel.com/country/forecast.aspx
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/980/41394346925_de6aab58d5_b.jpg
That is about as believable as the 1960s Neo-Malthusian 'thinkers' who had similar tales of woe, that were far more 'No'. It's 2018, really 2019 for planning purposes. So in 6 years, 100,000,000 Americans will leave? Over a million per month.... Colorado is BOOMING and we get 70,000 new people a year.... So you are talking two orders of magnitude, going to a country with even less infrastructure to handle people.
SomeOtherGuy
05-23-18, 12:18
There is a defense think tank known as Deagel that projects the US population will dwindle to 100 million people from our current 327 million by the year 2025. This largely due in part to mass migration OUT of the US but also as a result of the things that transpire during socioeconomic collapse; violence, pandemics, famine, et al.
http://www.deagel.com/country/forecast.aspx
From what I understand this is more like one or two guys with a computer model, not some kind of established "think tank" (which often aren't much more than this anyway).
GIGO for the computer types.
I wouldn't put any more stock in this than I would in a 6-month weather forecast claiming exact dates, time of day and amounts of rain.
Yeah, I don't believe that either. I don't believe any of this nonsense anymore. People have been preaching collapse doom and gloom since forever and we're still clipping along just fine.
Aside from living like a crazy hoarder there is exactly jack shit one can do about this anyway, so go live your life.
I’m a millennial, who has tried to buy a car on multiple occasions, I cannot get approved to save my life. Despite a good income, and the up until recently no dept or other bills, yet I had no problem buying a new house at 2% fixed interest.
I also have never been able to get a credit card.
It’s hard for us, most my friends are in the same spot, we make our money and no one’s willing to help us out so I see a lot of my friends go out and do dumb shit with their cash because they can’t invest it where it counts.Guess what, decades ago it was also hard to get car loans and credit cards.
We saved and bought used. Got "starter" cards when we had steady jobs, which each of my kids have done.
Painfully saved and did without to accumulate a home down payment.
Now, I have about as good of credit as you can get. Great income. Minimal if any debt other than that which makes sense for tax reasons.
Last two cars I bought were used and I paid cash. If I wanted, I could get 2-3 new car/truck loans. But it currently does not make sense to do so. (Sometimes used valuations make buying new better, but usually not)
If people wanted to have cars, they'd find a way to get them.
Sorry for the "get off my yard" moment, but I see many of the current young adult generation just with different priorities and feel their problems are unique. They aren't, it's just their expectations that are different.
Suggested reading:
"Wealthy Barber"
"Millionaire Next Door"
Ben Stein books on getting started with finances. Best explanation of the natural life cycle of individual and family finances, and strategies for each phase.
Actually we're in debt for alot more than that..Our gov't dosen't include things like medicare,medicaid, social security, welfare,..(unfunded liabilitys) in that figure, and the exact amount that adds on, nobody knows for sure, I myself figure that's at least another $100TSo in your net worth or financial statements, do you list your future college expenses for your kids, etc? Future medical insurance and out of pocket costs?
Your lenders look at ratios, but even they don't examine future unfunded liabilities.
It took me a while to figure out some of the "unfunded liabilities" stuff is a Boogeyman.
Now the national debt, and deficit spending, that's real.
The real risk is inflationary periods, which tend to swamp out national debt, though destroying individual savings.
The various QE exercises are doing exactly that.
That reminds me, I've been seeing what seems like an uptick in people getting passports at the post office lately.. maybe I should get one, while the getting is good...
Nope, it's kids getting ready to do a gap year to find themselves or study abroad
Yeah for you and me, NZ unlike us are smart by not letting the entire developing world into their borders.
Doors don't shut for billionaires however.Even decades ago NZ was hard to immigrate to, and harder yet to bring money with you. (I first traveled to NZ in 1984)
People always talk about moving to New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Etc. They have websites that will tell you what type of immigrants they are accepting. Some like Canada even have a test you can take.
Most Americans will have a hard time getting an unless they are young and have desirable skills and are economically self-sufficient. Harder yet from other countries, unless it's a refugee/asylum situation. Or one of the old Crown colonies.
Moose-Knuckle
05-23-18, 13:50
That is about as believable as the 1960s Neo-Malthusian 'thinkers' who had similar tales of woe, that were far more 'No'. It's 2018, really 2019 for planning purposes. So in 6 years, 100,000,000 Americans will leave? Over a million per month.... Colorado is BOOMING and we get 70,000 new people a year.... So you are talking two orders of magnitude, going to a country with even less infrastructure to handle people.
Think tanks project forecasts based on data and algorithms, not magic eight balls or ancient holy texts. Extrapolate from that what you will. When, not if the US house of cards economy goes tits up the .gov via COG will loot pensions, investment portfolios, 401ks, et al. to keep vital critical systems on life support.
So yeah, I can see how millions of young people forced to pay taxes would bale if their .gov just legally stole everything their grand-parents and parents worked for their entire lives.
Yeah, I don't believe that either. I don't believe any of this nonsense anymore. People have been preaching collapse doom and gloom since forever and we're still clipping along just fine.
Aside from living like a crazy hoarder there is exactly jack shit one can do about this anyway, so go live your life.
Belief is subjective. The stock market crash of '29 and the decade long Great Depression that ensued was not fear porn. People are not doing "fine" in places like Venezuela after their economy collapsed. Argentina went through it in '01 and Greece '10.
There is plenty a person can due to prep for an eventuality that doesn't preclude them from living their life or give them a hoarding disorder. YMMV.
Moose-Knuckle
05-23-18, 13:54
Even decades ago NZ was hard to immigrate to, and harder yet to bring money with you. (I first traveled to NZ in 1984)
People always talk about moving to New Zealand, Canada, Australia, Etc. They have websites that will tell you what type of immigrants they are accepting. Some like Canada even have a test you can take.
Most Americans will have a hard time getting an unless they are young and have desirable skills and are economically self-sufficient. Harder yet from other countries, unless it's a refugee/asylum situation. Or one of the old Crown colonies.
That is why In my previous post I was talking about billionaires buying up land in NZ.
SomeOtherGuy
05-23-18, 14:35
Yeah, I don't believe that either. I don't believe any of this nonsense anymore. People have been preaching collapse doom and gloom since forever and we're still clipping along just fine.
I am 100% certain there will be an economic collapse "some day", and I wouldn't be at all surprised if we're living through it right now. But I cannot tell you which specific day it will arrive, or be dramatic, and no one else can either. It's like earthquakes and meteor impacts - statistically it's 100% certain to happen, but when it's going to happen is mostly a guessing game. For both of those we can predict them somewhat, very shortly before the event - not long enough to do much of anything useful.
Aside from living like a crazy hoarder there is exactly jack shit one can do about this anyway, so go live your life.
I'll disagree there. Living in a stable low-crime area that isn't absolutely dependent on the grid for survival is possible, and a small compromise for a potentially huge benefit. I'm not talking Sandpoint Idaho either, you could be in any of hundreds of smaller cities across the country, or in a rural area 30 minutes outside a larger city. Living in central Tucson, or being a gentrification pioneer in some place like Detroit or Philadelphia, offers a much more immediate risk in the event of a social or power-grid disruption.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-23-18, 20:01
So in your net worth or financial statements, do you list your future college expenses for your kids, etc? Future medical insurance and out of pocket costs?
Your lenders look at ratios, but even they don't examine future unfunded liabilities.
It took me a while to figure out some of the "unfunded liabilities" stuff is a Boogeyman.
Now the national debt, and deficit spending, that's real.
The real risk is inflationary periods, which tend to swamp out national debt, though destroying individual savings.
The various QE exercises are doing exactly that.
Kudos for rational thought.
People here are talking about the fall of Rome levels of mayhem, which is a western point of view since the eastern half of the Roman Empire went for another 1000 years.
Plans for something like this? Unless it includes 500 of your closest and most useful friends in some area that has natural insulation from the outside, forget about it. You can’t talk about his level of mayhem, a billion people killed (almost double of WWII loses) in just a few years, and think that any kind of ‘plan’ you have that doesn’t include artillery and air support isn’t going to isn’t really a plan, it is stockpiling for some other group.
As a history nut, among other eccentricities, I decided to tackle Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire". 1 1/2 million words, or so they claim. I've made an initial dent in it, and it's actually a better read than I expected. It's damn sobering to get some insight into what took them down in the end and how a lot of it parallels what's going on now. Very similar stuff, just what appears to be happening faster in our case. It would be nice if this were just another case of "the sky is always falling"; I don't know.
But we sure don't learn anything from history. I wonder how many questions on "the Americans" will be on the test in, say 2230.
Hopefully Bismarck was right when he commented that “God has a special providence for fools, drunkards, and the United States of America.”
SeriousStudent
05-23-18, 23:00
It's worth the read.
Guess what, decades ago it was also hard to get car loans and credit cards.
We saved and bought used. Got "starter" cards when we had steady jobs, which each of my kids have done.
Painfully saved and did without to accumulate a home down payment.
Now, I have about as good of credit as you can get. Great income. Minimal if any debt other than that which makes sense for tax reasons.
Last two cars I bought were used and I paid cash. If I wanted, I could get 2-3 new car/truck loans. But it currently does not make sense to do so. (Sometimes used valuations make buying new better, but usually not)
If people wanted to have cars, they'd find a way to get them.
Sorry for the "get off my yard" moment, but I see many of the current young adult generation just with different priorities and feel their problems are unique. They aren't, it's just their expectations that are different.
Suggested reading:
"Wealthy Barber"
"Millionaire Next Door"
Ben Stein books on getting started with finances. Best explanation of the natural life cycle of individual and family finances, and strategies for each phase.
I can do one better. I'm an established business owner of 20+ years who had 80% down on the home I just purchased and they STILL put me through the ringer and made me jump through about a dozen different and expensive hoops.
I wanted to buy a home flat out and avoid the underwriters and their nonsense but we found the right house, in the right location at the right price. So even though I had personal assets worth three times the cost of the house it didn't matter. I learned working for yourself is basically the same as being unemployed as far as lenders are concerned.
And if you run a business in a fiscally responsible manner where profits are invested into inventory that appreciates rather than in a bank account earning .0001% interest they view that as a loss. I've never brought so much to the table before related to a purchase and you'd have thought I was there shaking an empty cup asking for a handout.
The good news is I should be able to pay off in full in 5 years or less, which will absolutely kill them in lost interest on the loan, so I won't have to deal with them much longer.
Good for you. This is what the American Dream is supposed to be. No sarcasm intended
Doc Safari
05-24-18, 09:05
And if you run a business in a fiscally responsible manner where profits are invested into inventory that appreciates rather than in a bank account earning .0001% interest they view that as a loss. I've never brought so much to the table before related to a purchase and you'd have thought I was there shaking an empty cup asking for a handout.
I personally know some old timers who had their credit cards canceled because they paid their balance off every month. If the banks aren't earning interest, they don't want or need your business.
I personally know some old timers who had their credit cards canceled because they paid their balance off every month. If the banks aren't earning interest, they don't want or need your business.
I would bet that depends somewhat on how much you use your card.
IIRC the merchant pays the issuer (Bank) a percentage from each transaction, and the credit card network (Visa) gets a set fee for each transaction.
So if I use the credit card to pay the $2.00 for my coffee and donut at the convenience store, the convenience store is going to end up paying, as an example 2% for the bank, and $.10 to Visa as a transaction fee. In this example credit transaction costs the store 14 cents. This may be one reason why the cost of donuts and coffee have risen - the store needs to make a profit after accounting for the credit card transaction costs.
So the bank always gets its 2% per transaction, regardless of whether you pay the card off or not.
I would imagine that if you only used your card to buy a carton of smokes once a month the bank might be losing money on the processing and billing, but most folks don't do that.
If I ran a high-volume store that had a lot of small purchases I think it would pay me to have a separate discount checkout line for cash only. If your average transaction was $5.00 and the transaction cost you 20 cents you could easily make more money by discounting cash at 2%.
Any financial wizards out their to educate us?
^^^ you're on point. Saved me from typing the same thing. This is why you see different prices for cash/credit at the gas pump. Average gas station only makes on average about 6% a gallon as it is.
xjustintimex
05-24-18, 11:24
Seeing how e-commerce is crushing the real estate markets I think we will see at least another recession soon. Followed by a shift towards multifamily for millennials, more entertainment, and growth in the food industry to make up for it.
Doc Safari
05-24-18, 11:33
Seeing how e-commerce is crushing the real estate markets I think we will see at least another recession soon. Followed by a shift towards multifamily for millennials, more entertainment, and growth in the food industry to make up for it.
How is ecommerce crushing real estate markets?
xjustintimex
05-24-18, 11:39
institutional lending is basically going away for large retail centers. They are all downsizing and traditional retail centers as we know will need to be totally revamped everywhere. Basically, the only people that will survive the internet are the people adapting into distribution centers and online sales... and things like nail salons and business that do not need to compete with amazon exc.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-24-18, 11:41
Seeing how e-commerce is crushing the real estate markets I think we will see at least another recession soon. Followed by a shift towards multifamily for millennials, more entertainment, and growth in the food industry to make up for it.
How is ecommerce crushing real estate markets?
Maybe not real estate markets, but real estate agents. No more sitting in their offices looking through books, or randomly driving around. Having said that, I don't think those people are starving. They still get paid way to much for the little that they are left doing. Then there is the whole loan part that is pretty e-commerce intensive.
SomeOtherGuy
05-24-18, 14:32
I personally know some old timers who had their credit cards canceled because they paid their balance off every month. If the banks aren't earning interest, they don't want or need your business.
I had a Citibank card cancelled on me about 12 years ago for that exact reason. Never had a late payment or any fees. No matter, plenty of other companies willing to take my business for the 1-2% net merchant fees they get to keep.
Seeing how e-commerce is crushing the real estate markets I think we will see at least another recession soon. Followed by a shift towards multifamily for millennials, more entertainment, and growth in the food industry to make up for it.
I can see most of this except the food industry growth. It's not my professional field, but what I read is that restaurant traffic is declining and has been for years, and that the grocery business is even more fractional-percent-margin cutthroat than it always has been. What part of the food industry is growing?
I can see most of this except the food industry growth. It's not my professional field, but what I read is that restaurant traffic is declining and has been for years, and that the grocery business is even more fractional-percent-margin cutthroat than it always has been. What part of the food industry is growing?
The trend I've noticed locally is that more restaurants are opening and that, as a sum total, restaurants are less crowded then they were. I think this is exacerbated in communities our size (40,000ish). We are at the point that when one restaurant opens, pretty soon after, another one closes. In the last year we've lost a Five Guys Burgers and a Pie Five Pizza. Both closed around the time a new Chic-fil-A opened. And our Chamber seems to think we really, really, need either a Ruby Tuesdays or TGI Friday's.
My family - until me - had been grocers or butchers. 2% was doing good back then. Today, I would hate to be a small town independent grocer. I have a good friend who has a small town grocery about 16 miles down the road from a WalMart SuperCenter. He can't get Pepsi products delivered for what I can buy them for at WalMart. He stays afloat because of his high quality meats and cheeses.
Times are tough, unless your........
the whole tiny home movement is interesting to me for younger folks or older to have less stuff easy to maintain heat etc.. save money
many seem to try it and get out it ? I think many try to push it to hard and live to off the grid and maybe a compromise of smaller home but on the grid and water
but having a small place for a young couple say 700 sq ft and the ability to add on later vs what I see on some home shows with first time buyers crying its not got granite and they want everything NOW and has to be 3k sqft or larger is the problem with so many
Doc Safari
05-24-18, 16:09
the whole tiny home movement is interesting to me for younger folks or older to have less stuff easy to maintain heat etc.. save money
many seem to try it and get out it ? I think many try to push it to hard and live to off the grid and maybe a compromise of smaller home but on the grid and water
but having a small place for a young couple say 700 sq ft and the ability to add on later vs what I see on some home shows with first time buyers crying its not got granite and they want everything NOW and has to be 3k sqft or larger is the problem with so many
I personally think the Tiny House TV show is a fraud. Example: one episode showed the front door having to open outward, and therefore the hinges were exposed. No one in their right mind would build a house like that because all a burgar has to do is drift out the hinge pins and enter the house. I say that show is for the TV audience and has nothing to do with reality. There have also been other instances of what I call "reality show fraud" on that program. For example, in more than one episode the bathroom is so close to the kitchen as to be unfeasible. Imagine someone taking a stinky poop right next to where food is being prepared. And I don't care if the "bathroom" has multiple ventilation sources like a window or exhaust fan, that's downright disgusting and I doubt anyone living in that space would exist in it very long without the unmistakable odor of crap wafting through the cabin. No amount of poo-pourri is going to make a dent in that either. I say the tiny house thing is mostly a fad and a fraud that will die quickly.
I personally think the Tiny House TV show is a fraud. Example: one episode showed the front door having to open outward, and therefore the hinges were exposed. No one in their right mind would build a house like that because all a burgar has to do is drift out the hinge pins and enter the house. I say that show is for the TV audience and has nothing to do with reality. There have also been other instances of what I call "reality show fraud" on that program. For example, in more than one episode the bathroom is so close to the kitchen as to be unfeasible. Imagine someone taking a stinky poop right next to where food is being prepared. And I don't care if the "bathroom" has multiple ventilation sources like a window or exhaust fan, that's downright disgusting and I doubt anyone living in that space would exist in it very long without the unmistakable odor of crap wafting through the cabin. No amount of poo-pourri is going to make a dent in that either. I say the tiny house thing is mostly a fad and a fraud that will die quickly.
never seen the tv show agree most like that are idiot not reality purely done to cause talk etc.. :) that is pretty sad and funny though :) hahahahahhahaha
have seen a lot of youtube things etc.. where some of the stuff is done really well but the tv show could be like the improvement ones where as you said done stupidly :)
agree and why I say the whole trying to be off grid vs just making a nice small home I lived in under 720 sqft most my life till my 40s as many do in the islands
and did quite well but the islands cater to that easily my first place when I met the wife was 400 sq ft which I lived in that size till my 30s when I met her
720 sq ft is about $350k though so buying larger gets hard for most folks the last place we were in was 1100 sqft and went for 1.1 million and needed to be renovated and the maintenance fees were $1000 a month on top of that
you can buy a nice home for about 1 million though basic 1600 sq ft away from the water etc..
many in the islands have been priced out of owning sadly that was a mid level place not nice not a dump a nice place 700 sq ft runs a million with maintenance in the $1500 a month
why so many rent vs own or they live 4 families to a home that is all cut up into common area and bedrooms
my parents place I could not afford 300 feet of waterfront taxes and maintenance alone are insane so figure that is 100k a year just to pay base expenses on
but a small nice home on the grid say 400 sq ft with proper layout and actual hook up to sewer :) and water and electric for many folks would be a good way to live and save a bit when young
many would do well to just build a nice garage with loft style above it and live in that knowing one day to save and build a main house then have a ohana for who ever to rent out or use for friends and family ?
never seen the tv show agree most like that are idiot not reality purely done to cause talk etc.. :) that is pretty sad and funny though :) hahahahahhahaha
have seen a lot of youtube things etc.. where some of the stuff is done really well but the tv show could be like the improvement ones where as you said done stupidly :)
agree and why I say the whole trying to be off grid vs just making a nice small home I lived in under 720 sqft most my life till my 40s as many do in the islands
and did quite well but the islands cater to that easily my first place when I met the wife was 400 sq ft which I lived in that size till my 30s when I met her
720 sq ft is about $350k though so buying larger gets hard for most folks the last place we were in was 1100 sqft and went for 1.1 million and needed to be renovated and the maintenance fees were $1000 a month on top of that
you can buy a nice home for about 1 million though basic 1600 sq ft away from the water etc..
many in the islands have been priced out of owning sadly that was a mid level place not nice not a dump a nice place 700 sq ft runs a million with maintenance in the $1500 a month
why so many rent vs own or they live 4 families to a home that is all cut up into common area and bedrooms
my parents place I could not afford 300 feet of waterfront taxes and maintenance alone are insane so figure that is 100k a year just to pay base expenses on
but a small nice home on the grid say 400 sq ft with proper layout and actual hook up to sewer :) and water and electric for many folks would be a good way to live and save a bit when young
many would do well to just build a nice garage with loft style above it and live in that knowing one day to save and build a main house then have a ohana for who ever to rent out or use for friends and family ?
Wow. Two years ago I bought a 2800 sq ft home on 7.5 acres with a spring fed creek, a barn and fenced for $240k.
ramairthree
05-25-18, 10:47
We have several factors leading to a precarious, propped up economy.
We used to have solid, blue collar jobs with good benefits and good pay. We used to have a small portion of the economy with college educations. A significant portion of the college educated had actually knocked out some hard stuff. We have shifted to a ton of people with service jobs and poor benefits. With a third of the population having degrees. Many of which have done nothing more arduous than a HS diploma used to be. We also have degree creep. With degrees for the same thing having higher levels. And being easier to get. We have also shifted a ton of money into non productive recipients. Whether it be via welfar, disability, or simply rewarding the advertising guy, sales guy, or entertainers in high proportion.
Our standard of living is through the roof. Home square footage, toy cars, boats, motorcycles, cruises, trips to Vegas, huge TVs, etc. abound. Low interest, tons of credit, both parents working, and several other factors go into this.
There is no public shame or common morals anymore. That unleashes the populace to let the government foot the bill for their life.
We also go out of our way to import immigrants that will be on the negative side of economics. Sure, the farmers, contractors, etc. get cheap labor. But the ERs, schools, etc. eat far more in costs. And that is for immigrants that work. A far cry from guaranteed welfare roll expanders many of the others are.
Much of the money and profit being made is in non productive assets. Sports stadiums, real estate bubbles, internet service sales, etc. They are not tied to a produced asset.
Many of these life styles, salaries, and benefits are tied to a government job. Funding by local, state, federal, or other budgets running on a deficit and non sustainable income/expenditure model.
Look at the microcosms of healthcare, education, etc. and see how each is a slice of the pie. In health care, Highly educated expensive workers, high tech costly equipment, etc. surrounded by administrators, lawyers, and such driving up the costs. Serving a population driving up needs through self inflicted issues, paid for by others. With a ton of money going to advertisers, sales reps, and insurance executives. In education, cities such as Baltimore demonstrate having a ton of employees with great pay and benefits for shitty workers combined with the highest possible costs per student result in, well, no results.
The recipients are out of control biting the hand that feeds them wanting more. The producers are tired of this. The accepted social norms that allowed the development of a highly functioning society are in tatters.
This cannot go on indefinitely.
RetroRevolver77
05-25-18, 11:02
never seen the tv show agree most like that are idiot not reality purely done to cause talk etc.. :) that is pretty sad and funny though :) hahahahahhahaha
have seen a lot of youtube things etc.. where some of the stuff is done really well but the tv show could be like the improvement ones where as you said done stupidly :)
agree and why I say the whole trying to be off grid vs just making a nice small home I lived in under 720 sqft most my life till my 40s as many do in the islands
and did quite well but the islands cater to that easily my first place when I met the wife was 400 sq ft which I lived in that size till my 30s when I met her
720 sq ft is about $350k though so buying larger gets hard for most folks the last place we were in was 1100 sqft and went for 1.1 million and needed to be renovated and the maintenance fees were $1000 a month on top of that
you can buy a nice home for about 1 million though basic 1600 sq ft away from the water etc..
many in the islands have been priced out of owning sadly that was a mid level place not nice not a dump a nice place 700 sq ft runs a million with maintenance in the $1500 a month
why so many rent vs own or they live 4 families to a home that is all cut up into common area and bedrooms
my parents place I could not afford 300 feet of waterfront taxes and maintenance alone are insane so figure that is 100k a year just to pay base expenses on
but a small nice home on the grid say 400 sq ft with proper layout and actual hook up to sewer :) and water and electric for many folks would be a good way to live and save a bit when young
many would do well to just build a nice garage with loft style above it and live in that knowing one day to save and build a main house then have a ohana for who ever to rent out or use for friends and family ?
Around here you can buy a brand new 2200 sq/ft home for about $250K.
We have several factors leading to a precarious, propped up economy.
We used to have solid, blue collar jobs with good benefits and good pay. We used to have a small portion of the economy with college educations. A significant portion of the college educated had actually knocked out some hard stuff. We have shifted to a ton of people with service jobs and poor benefits. With a third of the population having degrees. Many of which have done nothing more arduous than a HS diploma used to be. We also have degree creep. With degrees for the same thing having higher levels. And being easier to get. We have also shifted a ton of money into non productive recipients. Whether it be via welfar, disability, or simply rewarding the advertising guy, sales guy, or entertainers in high proportion.
Our standard of living is through the roof. Home square footage, toy cars, boats, motorcycles, cruises, trips to Vegas, huge TVs, etc. abound. Low interest, tons of credit, both parents working, and several other factors go into this.
There is no public shame or common morals anymore. That unleashes the populace to let the government foot the bill for their life.
We also go out of our way to import immigrants that will be on the negative side of economics. Sure, the farmers, contractors, etc. get cheap labor. But the ERs, schools, etc. eat far more in costs. And that is for immigrants that work. A far cry from guaranteed welfare roll expanders many of the others are.
Much of the money and profit being made is in non productive assets. Sports stadiums, real estate bubbles, internet service sales, etc. They are not tied to a produced asset.
Many of these life styles, salaries, and benefits are tied to a government job. Funding by local, state, federal, or other budgets running on a deficit and non sustainable income/expenditure model.
Look at the microcosms of healthcare, education, etc. and see how each is a slice of the pie. In health care, Highly educated expensive workers, high tech costly equipment, etc. surrounded by administrators, lawyers, and such driving up the costs. Serving a population driving up needs through self inflicted issues, paid for by others. With a ton of money going to advertisers, sales reps, and insurance executives. In education, cities such as Baltimore demonstrate having a ton of employees with great pay and benefits for shitty workers combined with the highest possible costs per student result in, well, no results.
The recipients are out of control biting the hand that feeds them wanting more. The producers are tired of this. The accepted social norms that allowed the development of a highly functioning society are in tatters.
This cannot go on indefinitely.
^^^^And this sums it all up nicely. Once the negative stigma of being on welfare went away and the politicians figured out they can keep their job by taking from the producers to give to the non-contributors it started the decline of the great Republic.
RetroRevolver77
05-25-18, 12:34
the whole tiny home movement is interesting to me for younger folks or older to have less stuff easy to maintain heat etc.. save money
many seem to try it and get out it ? I think many try to push it to hard and live to off the grid and maybe a compromise of smaller home but on the grid and water
but having a small place for a young couple say 700 sq ft and the ability to add on later vs what I see on some home shows with first time buyers crying its not got granite and they want everything NOW and has to be 3k sqft or larger is the problem with so many
1400 sq/ft is considered a tiny house. 700 sq/ft is just a small apartment. Anything smaller is just a loft apartment or college dorm.
This cannot go on indefinitely.
This was an excellent summary of what I feel is wrong.
When the guy running the hospital makes more than the highest paid surgeon, something is amiss.
To many folks are charged with making employment and salary decisions using other people's money.
xjustintimex
05-25-18, 19:27
For the first time we have actually seen restaurant sales passing grocery sales... Interesting times
I had a Citibank card cancelled on me about 12 years ago for that exact reason. Never had a late payment or any fees. No matter, plenty of other companies willing to take my business for the 1-2% net merchant fees they get to keep.
I can see most of this except the food industry growth. It's not my professional field, but what I read is that restaurant traffic is declining and has been for years, and that the grocery business is even more fractional-percent-margin cutthroat than it always has been. What part of the food industry is growing?
Moose-Knuckle
05-26-18, 03:59
Wow. Two years ago I bought a 2800 sq ft home on 7.5 acres with a spring fed creek, a barn and fenced for $240k.
That sounds like a dream, congrats!
Love TN, beautiful country but the New Madrid Seismic Zone keeps me from wanting to live there.
RetroRevolver77
05-26-18, 08:28
This was an excellent summary of what I feel is wrong.
When the guy running the hospital makes more than the highest paid surgeon, something is amiss.
To many folks are charged with making employment and salary decisions using other people's money.
What is not sustainable is having people on Welfare using the hospital emergency room as a doctors office and turning over what is essentially an emergency room charge visit over to the tax payers. If you really want to save this country you cut all welfare for the able bodied- all of it.
What is not sustainable is having people on Welfare using the hospital emergency room as a doctors office and turning over what is essentially an emergency room charge visit over to the tax payers. If you really want to save this country you cut all welfare for the able bodied- all of it.
While I agree with you, cutting welfare will never happen as long as fiat money is still accepted as a tangible form of payment. Welfare was one of LBJ's greatest achievements, guaranteeing a solid, reliable block of democratic voters.. for as long as the money keeps rolling in..The "war on poverty" was lost decades ago, but the war on our wallets to pay for this ponzi scheme is still being fought, and in many cases being won.. With literally half the country on some form of entitlement, it's impossible to take it away, the only way that's going to happen is through a economic collaspe, followed by a sensible reconstruction of our monetary system, and, our goverment. Getting rid of the Fed would be a good place to start, as well as term limits on members of congress.
What is not sustainable is having people on Welfare using the hospital emergency room as a doctors office and turning over what is essentially an emergency room charge visit over to the tax payers. If you really want to save this country you cut all welfare for the able bodied- all of it.
While I tend to agree for the most part, there are a lot more problems with our current situation.
If medical costs were reined in, we would be better able to sustain the cost of Medicaide for those for whom it is the only option.
Go to the ER with no insurance. Look at your bill. Look at a Medicaide bill for the same services. Look at the BCBS bill for the same services. Yours will be higher. Forty years ago, it would have been just the opposite.
Why is that considering that most folks, yep you heard it here, most folks have insurance? According to Gallup '11.7% of Americans were uninsured as of the second quarter of this year (2017).'
Seems to me the system is getting by OK on insurance payments. So why do they charge the uninsured more? Greed. Pure unadulterated greed.
Go to your local healthcare center pull the books, look at the profit margin.
They are raping us all.
So, yeah, we need to get the able minded and bodied of Medicaide, but IMHO, a far bigger problem is a system that allows/rewards such greed.
As I said, when the paper shuffler, who has nothing to do with patient care, makes more than the surgeon, something is screwy.
When a hospital has more billing clerks than hospital beds, something is screwy - Duke University Hospital has 900 hospital beds and 1,300 billing clerks - 30% of your hospital bill is consumed by administrative costs. https://www.singlecare.com/blog/30-medical-bills-go-administrative-costs/
That, my friend, is bullshit. Your barking at the wrong car.
ramairthree
05-26-18, 13:50
There are some elements correct by all.
Medical repeat offenders are a huge cost to the taxpayer. They pump out kids they don’t support, do drugs, have heart attacks, go on disability, end up on dialysis, etc. a large part of the population getting medical care is an anchor around the neck of productive citizens.
Yes, hospital administration has increased about 2400% since the 1970s. There is a huge amount of money going into it.
Legal costs are not insignificant either.
There are a lot of ways costs could be trimmed.
But at the end of the day,
When you kid has a brain tumor,
Millions of dollars worth of equipment will be used in their care by some very high quality and high performing individuals.
There are real costs associated with healthcare that are significant. Those will not go away. And costs also increasing due to “feels” oriented implementations.
Health care, is, like roads, bridges, etc. a real cost.
And just like building a road or bridge has political bribes, and a ton of other stuff increasing costs beyond its true expense so does medicine.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-26-18, 16:00
Average house in Denver just passed $500k. Not too many bad areas left, but it isn't like this is some kind elite community. Denver is now the craziest housing market outside of the coasts. I get the 'small house' movement. It was kind of cool, until you realize it is just trailer homes. I really thought that the crash of 2008 was going to lead to more rationale housing. And here we are back, closing in on full-stupid again. These little houses, for most people, are a symptom of that- and a consequence a generation that had a lot of people fail to launch because of the macro economic problems.
RetroRevolver77
05-26-18, 16:44
Average house in Denver just passed $500k. Not too many bad areas left, but it isn't like this is some kind elite community. Denver is now the craziest housing market outside of the coasts. I get the 'small house' movement. It was kind of cool, until you realize it is just trailer homes. I really thought that the crash of 2008 was going to lead to more rationale housing. And here we are back, closing in on full-stupid again. These little houses, for most people, are a symptom of that- and a consequence a generation that had a lot of people fail to launch because of the macro economic problems.
I could tell you about a magical place with high paying jobs, nice balance of life, and low cost housing but once word got out- it'd ruin it all for us lowly flyover country people.
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